[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Quitrex]

I don't know, I have literally never lost a match against storm...I'd probably put at least top 3 easiest matchups. And delver decks still feel borderline unloseable most of the time.

[Plm]

About storm I ain't sure but it might be because I've only played it once with POX (and it lasted only one turn !) but for me the deck I want to seat across is delver variants (grixis less and canadian the most).

Hardest match up, I would say vial decks (but my struggles of the past vs gob might taint my view).

[mykatdied]

About storm I ain't sure but it might be because I've only played it once with POX (and it lasted only one turn !) but for me the deck I want to seat across is delver variants (grixis less and canadian the most).

Hardest match up, I would say vial decks (but my struggles of the past vs gob might taint my view).

Tribal match ups are a slog pre board for sure, but very winnable. Post board there is no reason to ever not include Engineered Plague and that really shores that up a lot. As for the storm match up; sometimes they have the turn 1 nut and you don't even get to play a land. That does happen unfortunately, but generally if you get to fire off a single discard spell you begin to spare yourself some time and the match up slowly tilts in your favor. They need 2 things to kill you: 1 Mass of spells. 2 Mass of mana. We attack both resources very well.

[Plm]

My one match vs storm went like that : he turn one me , I look at my hand of duress, small pox and die a little inside.

game 2 I have a hand with some sideboard card, the mana for it and a duress. I take his tutor leaving nothing but mana, he topdecks ad nauseam and I soon am on my way to get pizzas for my team

Didn't play storm again with pox since then.

I remember a time when I had to maindeck 2 engineered plague to counter the lackey menace so I am traumatized

[mykatdied]

Sometimes storm just has hands like that. Depending on what was in your opponents hand it may have been correct to take a ritual rather than a tutor. If he has 2 or 3 lands and he can't actually tutor hellbent, then you have time to further disrupt his hand in which case you leave tutor and take something like LED. The top deck Ad Nauseam is unfortunate and not too much that you can do about draws like that. Just remember in order to get tutor online plus cast the selected card is usually going to require 7 mana to restart a chain of spells off something like past in flames, or 7 mana to just take the chance at an ad nauseam never mind the fact that they HAVE to draw lotus petals to restart the chain. Sometimes it is better to go after the mana depending on their options. Knowing storm and being able to pilot the deck yourself can help to make that decision.

[Hardcore]

I find it favorable too, despite running only Hymn for discard.
It is important to remember to bring in engineered plague from the sideboard, since that is their plan against us.

Speaking about Miracles I recall how I had fun with Ankh of Mishra back while I still was playing with a 100% proxy deck. Not sure it would be any good for real, but I need something for that match-up. Maybe factories and Cursed scroll will do the trick.

[mykatdied]

Ankh of Mishra is perfectly fine vs Miracles. A lot of their control comes from selection from tops and fetchlands. Each fetch being a 5 point loss of life is great.

[Hardcore]

Well, actually one of the local Miracles players go for fast monastery mentor win in second duels. I think one or two Cursed scroll could be necessary.

[mykatdied]

I'm not sure why anyone would ever cut cursed scroll. It's a staple for sure and gives us the ability to scroll end of turn to try and kill mentor, if they can save it you can follow up on upkeep or main phase to likely kill it. Ankh is just a great addition against miracles to really punish them for playing lands, especially fetch lands, which they play a lot of.

[Quitrex]

I can see trimming a scroll, and there are meta directions where I won't argue with moving them to the board, but I usually want tem somewhere in my 75. As mentioned earlier, miracles doesn't care for bitterblossom either, so that could be something that you use to shore up the matchup. I will state that the only games I have lost to storm opponents were when they turn 1ed on the play, which they haven't managed very often, and none of them have managed it twice a match. Each time they would have on the draw they either didn't draw a replacement for what I made them discard in time, I hit multiple of a key piece with surgical extraction (with your past in flames on the stack, you don't have dark rituals any more. Oops) or I got to drop a turn one trinisphere/nether void. The matchup I least like seeing across from me is veteran explorer, but that's mostly because te two local players we have with it are either persist/unearth heavy (pod strangleroot into finks into glen elendra) or walker heavy (I have difficulty dealing with ashiok into mind sculptor into karn.)

[Hardcore]

Today's list have a record 20 threats.
Since contagion make it harder to cast Tombstalker I have switched to Gurmag Angler.

4 Bloodghast
1 nether spirit
1 necroplasm
3 nihilith
3 Gurmag Angler

4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
3 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top
3 shrieking affliction
4 contagion
1 The rack

12 Swamp
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 bloodstained mire
1 polluted delta

[streetMage]

...Also, am I the only one who's looking at collective brutality as maybe a 5th smallpox?

Been thinking about building a Loam Pox deck similar to this: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13558&d=279780&f=LE. What are peoples thoughts on that list. Should it be playing any Mox Diamonds.

I also definitely want to test 2x Collective Brutality aswell, seems good with Life From the Loam and the retrace cards...
Thoughts?

[OmniStrata]

Been thinking about building a Loam Pox deck similar to this: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13558&d=279780&f=LE. What are peoples thoughts on that list. Should it be playing any Mox Diamonds.

I also definitely want to test 2x Collective Brutality aswell, seems good with Life From the Loam and the retrace cards...
Thoughts?

Big Pox is Smallpox #5-8. CB however has one thing that'll never make it 'pox-like' in nature. Land Destruction. In testing, I can't seem to find what I'd remove for it. Granted, the card has utility on par with Funeral Charm having 3 useful 'modes' but if only it allowed some form of mana denial. I'm currently running only a single copy of Big Pox but I wouldn't remove it for CB. It doesn't do enough damage nor destroy any lands. Some have spoken about using it as a way to undermine burn, which makes sense as CB will always have a target and it will keep you afloat for a bit. It also kills all of burn's pesky 2/2 haste goblins. I've tested something very similar to the MTGO winning deck posted some pages back and it turned out to be the best thing to kill my friend's Miracles deck.

For me, and many other Pox players I'm sure, that deck should be the hardest matchup unless you can kill them before they establish anything, which is hard to do using traditional Pox methods.

[Epeirogeny]

So it has been awhile. But someone asked what my sideboard was from my last report.

It was:

1 Cranial Extraction
1 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague
1 Extirpate
1 Infinite Obilteration
1 Memoricide
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt.


As far as storm. It can be a tough matchup. I actually just built storm to understand the deck better as I really had no idea what the combo was until I started doing it myself.

Storm is great against if you're on the play and can have a hand that is something like, Turn 1 Inquisition, Turn 2 Hymn to tourach, Turn 3...
The problem is that sometimes you have an opening hand with a lot more creature removal. A sinkhole/wasteland isn't too bad because storm does not run a lot of lands, but they do not need a lot either.
Also, a good storm player is going to realize you have no counterspells when they realize what deck you're on. An experienced player may know to go for it after they see basic swamp inquisition. And will definitely know by turn 2 if the optimal lands and spells are played.
The matchup is much better after board. At least as one can see with my board I have a lot of graveyard removal, and combo piece removal. Graveyard removal turns off past in flames wins, it can also make Cabal Rituals a lot weaker, just having a threat artifact like Tormod's crpyt out there will force them to play differently. Ratchet bomb can screw with the Empty the Warrens, etc. In the end, removing all of the useless single creature removal and single land removal (Innocent Blood, Sinkholes, Ensnaring Bridge, Bitterblossom, The Abyss, etc) allows the deck to have more action pieces. One still have to be aware of their Echoing Truth, Abrupt Decay etc.


On that note, Charbelcher is absolutely miserable. I do not think we have enough discard to mess with them during the early turns. And graveyard removal does not help against them. Just pray the opening hand is Turn 1 Inquistion, Turn 2 Hymn. I playtested several times and could not find a way to beat it. Unfortunately, the deck is cheap on paper so you have a higher chance of seeing it. Not to mention, I personally have no respect for a Belcher player...the deck takes literally 0 skill. If you're offended, good. Learn to play a real magic deck.

Someone also asked about Lands.
Lands is rough to play against. But luckily the deck is expensive on paper, so you may not see a lot of it.
Game 1 is very rough because land destruction and discard does not do much to a Loam engine. They just get everything back. Creature removal is useless. So basically, everything but the lands in the deck are kind of useless against the matchup. Hopefully you get to discard cards like Gamble and Crop Rotation...but still.
Game 2 and 3 sideboard cards that say "nonland" are useless, and the graveyard removal is not enough to take up every useless slot. At least with my setup. Even with all the cards coming in, there is only so many card that can go in. Dread of Night, Engineered Plague, Infinite Obliteration, Cranial Extraction, Memoricide do not help. Ratchet bomb isn't even great, but it is okay against a Dark Depths combo so it comes in.
Basically the deck needs to get an early bitterblossom and a way to get rid of loam once it is in the graveyard. Yet, even with bitterblossom they can still crop rotate for a Tabernacle and now you're taking 1 life per turn, and screwing your own mana base.

[streetMage]

Settled on this so far after a few games on mtgo:

Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath

Creatures (3)
3 Bloodghast

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells (23)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Innocent Blood
1 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge

Artifacts (5)
3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
1 Massacre
1 Collective Brutality
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Disfigure
1 Choke
1 Black Sun's Zenith

Tried Nether Spirit for the first few iterations and felt like the deck durdled too much after assuming a controlling position. This led me to drop Spirit and try 3 Bloodghast as a way to try and close out the games.

Also, I like the Mox Diamonds as a way to break parity with Smallpox...found that they were way more useful as they help fight through Blood Moon and even allow for turn one Hymns..
So far I like the list, definitely need to play more games and tune more..

[eternaldarkness]

Ratchet bomb isn't even great, but it is okay against a Dark Depths combo so it comes in.

Ratchet bomb does nothing against Dark Depths because Marit Lage is indestructible

[non-inflammable]

I played a punishing chains/anvil jund list last night and it was hilarious.
anyway to morph this into a playable punishing POX list?

4 chains of mephistopheles
3 anvil of bogardan

1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Nether Spirit

3 punishing fire
3 abrupt decay

3 mox diamond
1 cursed scroll
1 crucible of worlds

3 thoughtseize
1 inquisition of kozilek
3 hymn to tourach
2 life from the loam
4 smallpox

3 liliana of the veil


1 forest
2 swamp
3 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 wasteland
1 badlands
2 bloodstained mire
4 grove of the burnwillows
3 Mishra's Factory

SB was a mess
1 virtue's ruin
1 reclamation sage
1 toxic deluge
1 maelstrom pulse
1 diabolic edict
2 surgical extraction
1 boil
1 red elemental blast
3 leyline of sanctity
2 leyline of the void
1 kolaghan's command

[EdsonDettoni]

Well, it's been a while, but the format doesn´to too much, so...

First of all, thank you all for comment.

I'm reasinably certain that you need some sort of recursive life gain, and I don't think you need the full 8 gy hate effects (both in the sb). Te life gain I wouldn't be as adamant about if you didn't have 3 blossom/2 deluge in your board, but since you're on both I think it would be beneficial.
You mention cursed scrolls without saying whether you're adding or subtracting can and I think I want at least one instead of the fourth innocent blood, but that one is just me.
Personally, since you're on the basic plains, I want the fourth marsh flats in there somewhere. Yes, it opens you up to getting surgicaled a little bit more, but if you lose a game to that you were not terribly likely to win that game anyways, as most decks that bring in surgicals actually wanna peel you off wasteland or smallpox or hymn, so I wouldn't worry about getting your fetches hit. You're more suceptable to getting your urborg a pulled anyways, which is really inconvenient to say the least.

1. Untill now, i have not need life gain. I supose if my meta change, i can try Umezawa's Jitte or Syphon life. bitterblossom is sb against Miracles, so we don't have to fear to be rushed.
2. You're right about the 8 graveyard hate. Still, extirpate works great against other decks, like Lands, ANT and other combo decks.
3. You're right about marsh flats.
4. cursed scroll has not been necessary beacause the versatility of Vindicate, and the 10 win conditions of the deck.

So personally I dislike 4 vindicate. The mana cost and the color requirements can be tough at times. I run mox diamond over ritual and still have issues producing white on occasion.

I don't think you really need life gain as suggested by Quin because bitterblossom murders much faster than it suicides and toxic deluge I presume is for different match ups. I do like having access to Umezawa's Jitte and it might be better than deluge since it overlaps in many of the match ups that deluge is good for. That's personal preference though. I don't think you need it, but I really like a pair of jitte with blossom and souls.

Windswept Heath is just flat out bad and incorrect. The full set of flats and additional basics would be much better. Heath only fetches 3 lands and this isn't like delver where you get extra value from shuffling after a brainstorm and only need a few lands to get the job done. We generally need at least 5 lands at least to operate at full density once we have fired off wastelands and smallpox, not including if an opponent is firing wasteland back. You could likely trim a fetchland for a cursed scroll.

1. Vindicate is the base of the deck. Increases land destruction, helps against permanents an specialy sideboards. It's the reason for Bw.
2. +1 about life gain.
3. You're right about marsh flats

I have to admit, 4 Vindicate seems a bit excessive. It is a great top deck and early ones can always be pitched to Smallpox and Liliana, but wouldn't it be better to have lower cmc cards that can impact the early turns? Isn't that the name of the game, survive until your one-for-one's three-for-three's and two-for-one's put you in a top-deck war?

I have never played white in Pox, but I really like the idea of of 1 Flagstones of Trokair in place of the 1 of Plains and adding another Scrubland.

Windswept Heath makes no sense, at all. Maybe testing proves you need all those fetch lands, but even when I played green in Pox I didn't have that many fetches, I would max out at 5.

I have never had luck with the Bitterblossom sideboard plan.
I also prefer more permanent removal over Toxic Deluge. It is too temporary a solution in my experience. Wiping the board when you fall behind is not what this deck wants to be doing. This deck wants to trade resources turn after turn then remove win conditions.
Pox wins by not losing, but I guess you have Tombstalker and Lingering Souls and possibly that means you take a more aggressive approach. Although I did have some success with Tombstalker sideboard plan, beat dredge and burn in an open.

At first glance I didn't really like the list, but now that I am typing this and referencing it I change my mind.
There are several things I would change due to how I like to play and build, but I have to admit that when I get the time investigate B/W Pox this will be a starting point.

Thanks man, i really apreciate the way you keep your mind flexible..
1. As you say, the deck can asume a more agressive position, simultaneaously we are taking board control and take advantage of the card advantage.
2. toxic deluge is only a way to be consistent with the card advantag plan. (But whar cards do you mean by "permanent removal"?).
3. To be sincere, [/Cards]bitterblossom[/Cards] is primarily against miracles an other counter magic decks. And it has worked really good, beacause we increase the things they have to counter, and they can't do that, and the consistency with the card advantage game plan.
4. Vindicate is the base of the deck. Increases land destruction, helps against permanents an specialy sideboards. It's the reason for Bw.
5. [/Cards]Flagstones of trokair[/Cards] has been inconvinient,

Today's list have a record 20 threats.
Since contagion make it harder to cast Tombstalker I have switched to Gurmag Angler.

4 Bloodghast
1 nether spirit
1 necroplasm
3 nihilith
3 Gurmag Angler

4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
3 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top
3 shrieking affliction
4 contagion
1 The rack

12 Swamp
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 bloodstained mire
1 polluted delta

I really like the way you insist in a pox-tempo deck.

I've been thinking in some way to make tempo-pox viable. The only model woth to mention it, is a:

Br pox reanimator.


// Lands
4 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
4 [KTK] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [B] Badlands
1 [M12] Mountain (4)
1 [FUT] Dakmor Salvage
1 [4E] Swamp (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [NPH] Chancellor of the Annex
3 [AVR] Griselbrand

// Spells
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [C14] Faithless Looting
4 [US] Exhume
4 [ARC] Reanimate
3 [A] Sinkhole
4 [M12] Smallpox
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize


Do you think it works? It seems fun to me.

Se you all,

[Quitrex]

I think you only want 21-22 lands if you're going to hybridize with reanimator. I also think that I'd want to see some number of collective brutality since it acts as a thoughtseize effect for the relevant interaction, kills specifically deathrites shaman, and they can't get rid of the discard by countering the spell. I also think that I would want a second basic swamp in there and some way to accelerate mana to be able to get explosive starts, but some amount of that is just personal building preferences.

[Meyer]

Settled on this so far after a few games on mtgo:

Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath

Creatures (3)
3 Bloodghast

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells (25)
3 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Smallpox
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Innocent Blood

Artifacts (5)
3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard (15)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
1 Massacre
1 Cursed Totem
1 Coffin Purge
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Engineered Plague
1 Disfigure
1 Choke
1 Black Sun's Zenith

Tried Nether Spirit for the first few iterations and felt like the deck durdled too much after assuming a controlling position. This led me to drop Spirit and try 3 Bloodghast as a way to try and close out the games.

Also, I like the Mox Diamonds as a way to break parity with Smallpox...found that they were way more useful as they help fight through Blood Moon and even allow for turn one Hymns..
So far I like the list, definitely need to play more games and tune more..

Greetings Friends,
I have been playing MonoB Rack Pox unregularly for about 2 years, then stopped playing Legacy at all for another 2 years. But now, back into Legacy with Nic Fit, I'm planning on expanding my card pool for junk colors including Loam Pox, and I really like this list. I have also seen the Sundberg (?) list, and I guess a fine mixture of both would be a perfect starting point. Nonetheless I have some questions/suggestions:

1) Bloodghasts never impressed me, they always feel underwhelming unless the board is cleared and you have 3-4 of them 'online'. They can't block too which often led to problems protecting Liliana or the life total. I prefer the more defensive strategy here regarding Nether Spirit. That also opens 2-3 slots as Bloodghasts require to be played as a 4of to be most effective.

2) With those free slots I would add some additional removal. I know Abrupt Decay is the top choice here, but 4x Smallpox and 3-4x Innocent Blood always felt important. Maybe also the 3rd Liliana or Pernicious Deed main?

3) Has someone ever added more Crop Rotation for a more focused combo win? Don't want to push the deck into the wrong direction, but maybe there could be a successful hybrid Loam-Pox-(Turbo)-Dephts build in the future.

4) Do we necessary need Mox Diamonds? Yes, there is synergy with Loam, but i was never a fan of this in Pox.. but tell me I'm wrong if i should overthink this.

5) I'm very interested in your results considering Collective Brutality. I has its ups and downs, yes, but if it has its place in Legacy it is in this deck.

6) Going to try a singleton Worm Harvest (main or sb?) because vs. control different angles of attack are good.

7) Additional Massacre in the board because there is so much D&T in my meta?