[Primer] Elves!

[cheerios]

After playing ANT for the past few months, I decided to bring Elves! to our local GPT.

the list:
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Bayou
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Mistry Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thoughtseize

matchups:

rd 1: Eldrazi 0-2
Nothing to discuss here. My opponent wins the die roll and opts to play. I kept my opening seven with a lot of one drops and a potential turn 3 kill. My opponent lands a chalice for 1 and then lands turn 2 TKS to get my NO. He follows this with a jitte on turn 3.

On game 2, I kept a turn 3 kill hand again. I play a DRS on turn 1, he plays a chalice on 1 on his turn again (sigh). He follows up with TKS again on turn 2 for my NO, and then smasher on turn 3 to wrap things up.

rd 2: Bug delver 2-0
I just grinded him out with symbiote and visionary, then gsz'ed hoof for the win in both games.

rd 3: Reanimtor 2-1
He kills me with elesh norn on turn 1 (sigh) on our game 1. I mulled for disruption on games 2 and 3. DRS, surgical, and thoughtseize closed the games.

rd 4 Miracles 2-0
My opponent got beat down by 2 dryad arbors, and heritage druid with the aid of Pendelhaven on game 1. I was kinda lucky since he didn't get a terminus for game 1. DRS machine gun for the win on game 2.

rd 5 Miracles (again) 1-1
I combo out on game 1. He terminused me 3 times, and EE'ed me to wipe my board clean on game 2.

Quarter finals Belcher (sigh) 1-2
I got killed turn 2 on both games 1 and 3. I killed him on turn 3 on game 2.

I got a Scrubland for my troubles. Overall, the deck feels competitive and fun to play. I'm thinking of adding a Teeg or Leovold to the SB.

Cheers

[TGCRequiem]

I was one of the Elves players at SCG Columbus. I just ran the most recent list Julian/Jan have been running. I had only played 3 or 4 matches of Legacy over the last 4 months or so but it's like riding a bike I suppose. I actually hard punted Game 3 in mirror Rd 2. Record wise that'd give me a top 8, but tough to say that's the difference between when all my matchups would have been different.

Abzan (2-1)
Elves (1-2)
D&T (2-0)
Turbo Depths (2-1)
Grixis Delver (2-1) - G1 I Mull to 5 opponent on the play Probes me then Cabal Therapy's taking both Heritage Druid, but I still was able to grind out the win.
Eldrazi (0-2) Ali Antrazi - He had Chalice on 1 G1 on play, both games he had aggressive draws I couldn't outpace.
Eldrazi (2-0) Had two excellent hands won t3 game one off NO, G2 I was patient and went T4 instead to be certain I'd do lethal.

Deck felt great. I just followed Julian's advice and sided out NO in every matchup, except Eldrazi, my minimal experience in that matchup says Glimpse is bad vs Chalice. I think I kept 1 NO in against Turbo Depths as well just bc I didn't have any experience in that matchup.

[catmint]

Why is Garruk so popular?
Against miracles these tokens are slow and get beat really bad by their usual weapons (Terminus into Jace, mentor or entreat).
I tested Nissa, Vital Force in that slot against miracles. I think the 1 mana extra is worth the trouble of killing fast - getting rid of Jace and the superstrong ultimate potentially in the second turn. Not a big factor but I wonder why this PW is not played.

In my last local tournament I went 3-0-1 beating miracles once and drawing in the last round. But the games were sick and random.
The matchup is absolutely horrible against competent players and only slightly bad against mediocre players (If you play perfect yourself). So, I still think there is an improvement in the MD, SB configuration to have a better long game. Their win-cons are just way too strong.

[Julian23]

Was happy to see your tweet about doing well with the deck. I don't take out NO against *every* deck, but against pretty much every deck with blue countermagic in it. I definitely keep it in vs e.g. D&T, HexDepths etc.

[TGCRequiem]

Well looking back I know for a fact I didn't pull NO vs Abzan, Elves, D&T, or Eldrazi. I guess I mostly knew you meant it about blue decks. In the depths matchup I wasn't sure and despite winning through a T1 Tabernacle G1, I wasn't confident I'd have the creatures and mana to cast NO and pulled two of them and Jitte for 3 Thoughtseize.

[AznSeal]

You probably already saw it on Twitter, but for everyone else: I've been running Jan's list from Eternal Weekend a lot lately and it has been nothing short of amazing for me on MTGO. Here's the list and what I faced:

League#1:
R1: Grixis Delver, 2-0
R2: Infect, 2-1
R3: Infect, 2-0
R4: BUG Delver, 2-1
R5: Shardless, 2-0

League#2:
R1: Jund, 2-1
R2: Aluren, 2-0
R3: Moggcatcher Stompy, 2-0
R4: UR Delver, 2-0
R5: HexDepths, 2-0

League#3:
R1: 12 Post MUD, 2-0
R2: 12 Post MUD, 2-0
R3: Elves, 2-1
R4: Grixis Delver, 2-0
R5: OmniSneak, 2-0

League#4:
R1: Eldrazi, 2-0
R2: Miracles, 2-0
R3: Miracles, 2-0
R4: Sneak Show, 2-1
R5: OmniSneak, 1-2

I also 4-0'ed our local GP Trial for Lousiville beating ANT, GWb Hatebears, Eldrazi and ANT. Deck feels really amazing.

What strikes me most is how great the matchup vs Grixis Delver has felt lately. I think I'm at something like 10-2 against them recently. Here's how I sideboard:
-3 NO, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Reclamation Sage
+3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Scavenging Ooze, +1 Garruk Relentless

It feels as if people are heavily cutting back on mass removal, allowing you to grind out Grixis pretty hard. One of the few ways to lose is if you get behind to much too quickly but that's just the nature of tempo decks anyways, so I'm fine with that.

For the Bazaar of Moxen Super Finals coming up this weekend, I'll still probably have to make a few changes. We ran some metagame predictions based on the qualified players and it's looking like this (excluding me):



So I'm feeling a bit uneasy about not having Elderscale Wurm in that list anymore. And of course the absurd lack of any Delver deck, which I'd be happy to face. HexDepths and Sneak Show also cause issues, and so do Lands and BR Reanimator. I've never been too much of a fan of Surgical Extraction vs Lands since it doesn't stop them from putting you helplessly behind early on with Mox Diamond starts, but a 3rd Extraction would surely help vs Reanimator. HexDepths on the other hand is incredibly hard to hate. We'll see what I come up with. Maybe I'm just gonna run Jan's list, but the lack of Delver, where the deck really shines, is definitely a big worry for me right now.

Sorry for the late reply, but your SB is 14 cards. What is the 15th?

EDIT: jk mobile sucks I see it

[Merrioc]

What's the point of the recent inclusion of Leovold, Emissary of Trest?

[Prdgychild]

What's the point of the recent inclusion of Leovold, Emissary of Trest?

leovold is an annoyance and another way to stunt the opponents development. if you run the 3 NO it helps to be a bit more flexible at relatively no extra cost. more impactful on an empty board then SotP as well. 61 vs 60 is very negligible. he is also an untested elf so the skys the limit at this point!

[Julian23]

In case you missed it, Reid Duke put up some new Blood Elves videos on Channel Fireball. I haven't gotten around to watch them yet, but will surely do. Make sure to show your appreciation and support in the comments for CFB bringing the Legacy content:

http://www.channelfireball.com/video...egacy-elves-3/

[catmint]

What's the point of the recent inclusion of Leovold, Emissary of Trest?

I played with him a little bit and came to the conclusion that it is not worth it or relevant for a combo elves build.

He is of course great against cantrip decks - especially delver but:

As a 1 of Zenith target you have to GSZ for x=3 and if you are able to do that safely there are usually better things to do with GSZ.

To play him naturally in turn2 - especially if you have a cavern is great against cantrip decks, but you would have to include a lot of blue sources (fetches, Trops). Also that does not really fit our gameplan and what we usually do on turn 2, but maybe there is differente build someday that focuses less on combo but more on effects like that.

As a sideboard card (GSZ) target - again the question is is there nothing better to zenith for in a given game state. (teeg, visionary, symbiote, ooze) and GSZ for 4 is a turn 3-5 play if disrupted, so by then the impact is not so strong that there is nothing better to do.


So imo Leovold is like other cmc3 elves with a powerful effect but does not quite fit combo elves.

[Curby]

61 vs 60 is very negligible

O RLY? http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=593

Running extra cards usually matters less in decks with a lot of library manipulation, e.g. if you're on 4 Zenith 3 NO. Additionally in this deck in particular, adding Elf creature cards doesn't hurt as much as adding non-creature spells.

[PendelSteven]

Well,

Julian's deck is 30-4 in Games, huh?

I ran pretty much the same deck this sunday at the small Legacy event at GP Rotterdam (Enter The Arena). Yeah, I was too tired to get up early for the big (STAR) event, so sue me. Also, it's been months since I played Elves.
Differences? I had a ScOoze mainboard instead of a Jitte, sideboard -1 Abrupt Decay, -1 Cabal Therapy, -1 ScOoze, -1 Gaddog Teeg, +1 Null Rod, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Progenitus, +1 Sylvan Libary.

Went 2-0 against manaless Dredge. After that, 0-2 vs BUR Delver, 1-2 against Storm and 0-2 vs Sneak & Show. All in I guess the optimist conclusion is 3-6 in games. Not too shabby since I've never played with the Caverns and Garruk before. Also, I need to sideboard out my NO's more, I guess...

I remember one game vs BUR his wasteland vs my Cradle was the way I lost. Maybe I could've kept in in my hand. Probably should've sided out more NO's and put more discard vs S&S and Storm. But heck. Gaddog Teeg would've helped me against those decks as well.

On other versions: I've got a Tropical Island. Got my first one at GP Lille, 'cause Berserk was finally reprinted. I'll probably need another one to really play Infect, but I'm glad to see I can try out Leovold. I've got two Blood Moons, 'cause I've got a U/R Delver as well, a Taiga isn't that expensive, so thanks for the link to Reid Duke's Blood Elves.

Any links to matches with Leovold are very appreciated. Also, if someone can please explain exactly what makes Garruk so good? Thank you!

[haganbmj]

Played Elves at the 65 person Legacy Quarterly at Giga-Bites Cafe in Georgia last weekend.

R1 0-2 vs Turbo Depths
R2 1-2 vs BR Reanimator
R3 2-0 vs GWB Nic Fit
R4 2-0 vs Merfolk
R5 2-0 vs Deadguy Ale
R6 2-1 vs Miracles
R7 2-1 vs Jund

Played a pretty typical base mainboard with
0 Natural Order, 1 Fyndhorn Elves, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Jitte, 2 Dwynen's Elite, 1 Shaman of the Pack, 1 Wren's Run, 1 Craterhoof, 2 Cavern, 1 Dyrad Arbor.

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Disfigure, 2 Thoughtseize, 3 Cabal Therapy, 1 Ooze, 1 Teeg, 3 Decay

Lost the first two matches so quickly that the contents of my deck really didn't matter. Otherwise the list felt reasonable.

Top 8 was Eldrazi, BUG Delver, D&T, Miracles, Shardless BUG, Goblins, Sneak + Show, GWB Maverick

[Prdgychild]

O RLY? http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=593

Running extra cards usually matters less in decks with a lot of library manipulation, e.g. if you're on 4 Zenith 3 NO. Additionally in this deck in particular, adding Elf creature cards doesn't hurt as much as adding non-creature spells.

From what you wrote it sounds like we are in agreement.... I may be confused.

[lowpass]

PendelSteven - Garruk can spit out creatures in grindy matchups, remove small (but problematic) creatures, and is resistant to most removal. And, rare, but his flip side ult can be a game-winner if you are having trouble getting out a Hoof.

[jjkbb2005]

To all my fellow Elves players out there, I have been having the most difficult time convincing myself to run 2 maindeck CVoS. The last couple of times I have played the deck (with x2 CVoS) it felt a little bit more clunky and I was usually left with non-fetchlands that weren't helpful towards advancing my gameplan (This is probably confirmation bias). Is there really that much of difference in the manabase? Is it awkward to leave 1 in the side? Having Pendelhavens, and Caverns has dramatically decreased our number of fetches which I feel has decreased the number of explosive starts Elves is capable of/DRS effectiveness (largely due to the increasing number of decks that fail to run fetches). Also what is everyone's thoughts on Pendelhaven? Is it worth it in place of a fetch?

[Prdgychild]

2 cavern is amazing. Just played a legacy tourney with the Jan/Julian list with md jute and Julian's most recent sb BUT I played 61 md with Leovold.

Cloudpost 2-0 was faster both games NO for hoof then NO for progen
U/W/g stone blade 2-0. Game 1 NO for rec sage blew up jitte and won shortly after. G2 he did not realize symbiote can bounce blocker of jitte and, I drew double decay.
2-1 u/r sneak attack. Lost g1, he missed lands g2. G3 cabal therapy with beats is decent.
FINALS 2-0 shardless. Still not sure why people think AV is better than the best friends combo.

Cast leovold once, drew two cards. Never wanted to NO but would have liked a WRP...... Still think both are good

[abombdiggity]

2 cavern is amazing. Just played a legacy tourney with the Jan/Julian list with md jute and Julian's most recent sb BUT I played 61 md with Leovold.

I definitely agree that running two caverns over a cavern/Pendelhaven is where we need to be in the current Counterbalance/Chalice heavy meta. I think we'd all love to be running another fetch in that slot, but the meta really dictates that we lean on caverns to improve our more difficult tier 1 matchups.
Leovold to me (with relatively little testing, so I can't be completely sure- I'll jam a few leagues once it's a little cheaper online) seems to occupy the same slot as WRP, and personally I prefer not putting extra strain on the mana with a tropical island, especially when wasteland is as prevalent as it is. The upside to Leovold is higher than Packmaster for sure, but the downside of needing both blue and black mana seems like it could be much more detrimental when you do draw it.

[cheerios]

@jjkbb2005

I'm also using Jan's manabase but added the 4th heritage druid since I was feeling the same sentiments you shared. I want the deck to be more explosive against several matchups. I would not remove the 2 Caverns and the Pendelhaven. Pendelhaven has been good for me in the grindy matchups, while Cavern kinda owns miracles and eldrazi. I'm still learning the deck, so maybe the more experienced players can handle the new manabase better.

cheers

[Julian23]

Cavern is very often very awkward at times. On the other hand, about 60% of the matches I play are vs either Counterbalance or Chalice. I recently considered adding a 3rd to the sideboard.

Pendelhaven is insanely good. When you need it, it will often easily deal 5+ damage over just a single turn. It's such a key difference when you got a bunch of 1/1s getting stared down by just a single SFM, SCM, DRS, Priest, Canonist etc.

Apart from that there's nearly so many other high impact apllications for it: Punishing Fire, Golgari Charm, Lavamancer, Jitte, Warping Wail. Especially with Grixis Delver everywhere, it's stronger than ever.