Miracle Control

[icedagger]

1. Assume your name is Not Joe Lossett, think long and hard if you want to run Legend build in a GP. Do you really want to be durdling with "block with legendary creature, bounce it with Karakas" play?

2. Assume your name is Not Joe Lossett, how long have you been playing on Legend build? We are not referring to Miracles the archetype, we are referring to Legend build specifically. This is the most time consuming version, you need to get pass a long learning curve to get pass draws.

3. When BR reanimator recently becomes a thing, I'm not sure 4 FoW is enough. We would turn 1 FoW on Aether Vial, every, single, time, correct? Do you really want to run 3? I guess the counter-argument is that Legend build has 2 Karakas. However, if your opponent gets to draw 7, I would say damage is already done.

1. I've spent more time practicing on the Legend build than I have on any of the other Miracle variants. Right now it's the only variant I'd be confident enough to pilot at a major event.

2. Not that long. 5 months give or take.

3. Point taken. The reason i ask is I see decklists with only 3 FoW on SCG and wonder if this would work out at a GP.

[Poron]

everyone but Miracle is playing Wasteland.. not sure Karakas depending lists is where we want to be

[CutthroatCasual]

2. Not that long. 5 months give or take.

Joe's been on the list for years. There's a very high likelihood you scrub out with it. 5 months is nothing.

[Whitefaces]

1. Assume your name is Not Joe Lossett, think long and hard if you want to run Legend build in a GP. Do you really want to be durdling with "block with legendary creature, bounce it with Karakas" play?

2. Assume your name is Not Joe Lossett, how long have you been playing on Legend build? We are not referring to Miracles the archetype, we are referring to Legend build specifically. This is the most time consuming version, you need to get pass a long learning curve to get pass draws.

3. When BR reanimator recently becomes a thing, I'm not sure 4 FoW is enough. We would turn 1 FoW on Aether Vial, every, single, time, correct? Do you really want to run 3? I guess the counter-argument is that Legend build has 2 Karakas. However, if your opponent gets to draw 7, I would say damage is already done.

Joe's been on the list for years. There's a very high likelihood you scrub out with it. 5 months is nothing.

This has got to be the worst 'advice' I've ever seen on this forum, what do your posts achieve?

This thread is embarrassing considering it's the best deck in the format. Rather than talk strategy you belittle and talk down to each other.

[kentheide]

1. I've spent more time practicing on the Legend build than I have on any of the other Miracle variants. Right now it's the only variant I'd be confident enough to pilot at a major event.

2. Not that long. 5 months give or take.

3. Point taken. The reason i ask is I see decklists with only 3 FoW on SCG and wonder if this would work out at a GP.

Going from 4 to 3 FoWs was to fit the second Spell Snare. So in total you are running 5 counters. Spell Snare hits almost any target you don't want to see hit the table including sideboard hate. Also it's splendid in the mirror!

[kentheide]

everyone but Miracle is playing Wasteland.. not sure Karakas depending lists is where we want to be

Decks where we are dependant on bouncing opponents creatures those decks do not run Wasteland. Also you can just bait the wasteland if you are playing against DnT and need to bounce Thalia etc.

If you don't want to run Karakas simply don't run it. Doesn't mean others shouldn't consider it as a viable option.

[prepare4robots]

This has got to be the worst 'advice' I've ever seen on this forum, what do your posts achieve?

This thread is embarrassing considering it's the best deck in the format. Rather than talk strategy you belittle and talk down to each other.

I second this. I come to this thread often looking for... something. This is a reminder why I rarely post.

[oarsman]

3. Point taken. The reason i ask is I see decklists with only 3 FoW on SCG and wonder if this would work out at a GP.

I don't think there is any real difference in putting together a list for a GP vs SCG. A GP will have an extra thousand players, but it is mostly just more of the same people.

EDIT: I wrote that assuming you were talking about an SCG Open. Lists from Classics or IQ's are more suspect because players aren't battling through nearly as many rounds.

[twndomn]

This has got to be the worst 'advice' I've ever seen on this forum, what do your posts achieve?

This thread is embarrassing considering it's the best deck in the format. Rather than talk strategy you belittle and talk down to each other.

He asks everyone for feedback, I gave mine.

You did not give any.

Instead, you label my feedback as belittle and talk down. Who gave you the right to label other people's comments as belittle and talk down? As matter of fact, your comment is precisely what you are against: nothing miracles related.

[Quasim0ff]

He asks everyone for feedback, I gave mine.

You did not give any.

Instead, you label my feedback as belittle and talk down. Who gave you the right to label other people's comments as belittle and talk down? As matter of fact, your comment is precisely what you are against: nothing miracles related.

"If you are not Joe Lossett, you won't succeed" is not feedback.

[hyp3r1on]

No one is belittling anyone. Miracles has been around for a very long and a lot of seasoned and experienced pilots have very thorough reasons for their card choices and high-held opinions of what cards are good and what cards are suboptimal. A lot of it has to do with their comfort zones as players. For example, I personally don't believe the Legends build is an optimal build of the deck unless you are Joe Lossett or are strictly planning to play against the mirror/attritiony midrange decks all day. I also believe Predict is "fluff" in a lot of lists and is largely unneeded. I'm certainly not going to "belittle" anyone for contradicting my personal opinions regarding Miracles, but at the same it would be very difficult for me to provide constructive advice to a poster looking to play 3 main deck Predict for a Grand Prix.

[Dice_Box]

This has got to be the worst 'advice' I've ever seen on this forum, what do your posts achieve?

This thread is embarrassing considering it's the best deck in the format. Rather than talk strategy you belittle and talk down to each other.

Agreed. When a new person asks for relevant advice, how much of an ass do you have to be to punch down on them? When someone asks something in the Lands thread my response is not to ask them why they are bothering. You are being toxic. Stop it.

This thread has a hideous reputation and shit like this is the reason why.

He asks everyone for feedback, I gave mine.

You did not give any.

Instead, you label my feedback as belittle and talk down. Who gave you the right to label other people's comments as belittle and talk down? As matter of fact, your comment is precisely what you are against: nothing miracles related.

Let me see if I can try.

"Legends is the hardest build of Miracles to play without a large amount of practice. Are you sure you wish to play this at a GP?"

Sometimes it's less about what you say and how you are saying it. What you did was belittling and talking down. He called you out on it. He should have reported the post but that doesn't make him calling you out incorrect.

Edit:
Guys, report shit. I don't come in here often, I don't see this shit myself. If you see something you think is rude, disrespectful or something that brings down the reputation of the site, please, be our eyes. Report it and we will be in here as soon as we can be.

[kravkenov]

Hi everyone! I need some input:

How many FoWs would you put in your deck going into a GP?

I'm running a Legends build and am trying to decide if I need all 4 or if I can go down to 3.

In a GP, you will face a lot of "everything" decks, from combo-turn-1 to really slow grinding deck (at least in the first and second round, and even a bit more if you didn't managed to X-0). But consider you are good and lucky enough to beat the early random deck, you still have to answer critical game-winning-spell your opponent will do, and imo, 4 FoW is the best thing. If you suspect lot of hand-disruptive decks, and want to go down to 3 FoW, you really should remplace the 4th FoW by one or maybe 2 other counters.

[icedagger]

@Kentheide: Thanks. I've been experimenting with the different counter packages lately and spell snare seems great.

@kravkenov: Ah, I see. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

@oarsman: Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.

Just wondering, I noticed you ran 4 FoW in your GP Columbus list. Did you have any specific reason for this over the 3 FoW + 2 Spell Snares configuration you've been using at recent SCG opens?

[kravkenov]

General question about side boarding option.
With this deck, I have good time playing, and usually, random deck are behind, while few heavy-creature are really hard to beat. I think about Eldrazi, Death & Taxes, Shardless BUG, and even Goblins (as here in my area, the main TO has several decks to borrows, and 2 Goblins are part of them).

So while I was surfing and looking everywhere for nothing on mtgtop8 and co, my mouse cursor aimed at Thing in the Ice.
I think this creature coud be a good point to rise a bit our percentage win against those kind of deck. With 4 counter, it will flip relatively fast, and once it's flipped, it's just like "Terminus + Big haste-creature". Any of you already thought about and tested it ?

In my sideboard, I do it like this :

2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
2 Containment Priest
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thing in the Ice

[Whitefaces]

General question about side boarding option.
With this deck, I have good time playing, and usually, random deck are behind, while few heavy-creature are really hard to beat. I think about Eldrazi, Death & Taxes, Shardless BUG, and even Goblins (as here in my area, the main TO has several decks to borrows, and 2 Goblins are part of them).

So while I was surfing and looking everywhere for nothing on mtgtop8 and co, my mouse cursor aimed at Thing in the Ice.
I think this creature coud be a good point to rise a bit our percentage win against those kind of deck. With 4 counter, it will flip relatively fast, and once it's flipped, it's just like "Terminus + Big haste-creature". Any of you already thought about and tested it ?

In my sideboard, I do it like this :

2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
2 Containment Priest
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thing in the Ice

I think there are a few problems for Thing in the Ice here.

1) It wants you to be running proactive spells, Miracles is largely reactive so you'll have a harder time flipping it than you think.
2) Miracles doesn't have much card advantage (virtual CA from CB doesn't work here), so you'll have it stuck with two counters or so fairly often and not be able to flip it in time.
3) Mentor and Entreat are just better and more threatening cards to follow up a Terminus with.

If you're having trouble beating creature decks maybe try some Supreme Verdicts. They're not great vs DnT (but neither is Thing as your cantrips will be taxed), but good vs Eldrazi, Shardless, Delver etc. Goblins is just a horrible matchup, for that sweepers aren't good enough. You want something like Moat.

EDIT: I just remembered you're not running Terminus, maybe that's why creature decks are being problematic

[kravkenov]

EDIT: I just remembered you're not running Terminus, maybe that's why creature decks are being problematic

This is just a try (not running Terminus). I feel the deck still competitive (because only 3 cards switch dosent change completely the deck into complete trash) while being a bit more aggressive, especially when Attacking/Blocking with Mentor. Splitcecond really shine against "creature-ability" like Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman or mirror Mentor, but are really useless against Tarmogoyf/Eldrazi decks except making tokens and 2 hp burn.

In these scenari, Supreme Verdict could be nuts but these deck also run manadenial, which make problematic to cast Supreme Verdict or Moat. That's why I thought about Thing in the Ice among Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon and co. for the last 3 Flex slots in my sideboard.

But you are right, I might have more difficulties than I expect to flip Thing. At least, a 0/4 can still block several creatures and put real pressure to get answered. I will test it a bit and see how it goes before providing a feedback.

[oarsman]

@oarsman: Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.

Just wondering, I noticed you ran 4 FoW in your GP Columbus list. Did you have any specific reason for this over the 3 FoW + 2 Spell Snares configuration you've been using at recent SCG opens?

I hadn't made the change yet at that point. Since I did it, I have played the 3 force / 2 snare version at all my events.

[drocker23]

I hadn't made the change yet at that point. Since I did it, I have played the 3 force / 2 snare version at all my events.

can you advocate running 3 force of will, 2 spell snare, 0 counterspell in a Miracles build that isn't the Legends version? Or is this combination only suited for the Legends build specifically?

[Shinwei]

Apologies if this has been discussed already. I've used the search function on this thread for:

• "Emrakul, the Promised End"
• Emrakul
• "Promised End"

And didn't find any real discussion. I've noticed a few decklists that have put up results that are running [[Emrakul, the Promised End]], and I'm wondering if anyone has any insight to its effectiveness. If running [[Nahiri, the Harbinger]], why wouldn't you just run [[Emrakul, the Aeons Torn]]? Is it really realistic to be casting the Promised End?

Here are the decklists:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506339
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/511595