[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[square_two]

I would disable 2 or 3 of the bigshots (along thrag/rhinos/Sorin) to put in 3 inquisition of Kozilek or thoughtseize. Which would really help you against ANT MD and synergize a lot with our cabal.

I too feel like having 4 Rhinos + Thragtusk is a tad excessive. I'd either replace a couple Rhinos with CA engines like Tracker/Meren (Meren lets you recycle Rhinos, so that is a simple replacement really), or anti-combo stuff like Thoughtseize/Surgical/Glen Elendra or even Notion Thief if you are up to feeling spicy.

Are you really just slamming them or using GSZ to put down more than two Rhinos? I'd think at that point you GSZ for Atraxa or have more mana to get Dromoka.

[Echelon]

Are you really just slamming them or using GSZ to put down more than two Rhinos? I'd think at that point you have another mana to GSZ for Atraxa or another to get Dromoka.

If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.

Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.

[square_two]

If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.

Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.

Ok I might grant you that. I've lost to Burn enough to be satisfied with seeing a herd of Rhinos in hand.

Feels like we're coming full rotation from where we were a year ago though.

[Ganfar]

If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.

Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.

I feel the same way with "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". If someone wants to have Rhino in the deck, max them out or don't play with them at all.

[Ricardio]

I too feel like having 4 Rhinos + Thragtusk is a tad excessive. I'd either replace a couple Rhinos with CA engines like Tracker/Meren (Meren lets you recycle Rhinos, so that is a simple replacement really), or anti-combo stuff like Thoughtseize/Surgical/Glen Elendra or even Notion Thief if you are up to feeling spicy.

Are you really just slamming them or using GSZ to put down more than two Rhinos? I'd think at that point you GSZ for Atraxa or have more mana to get Dromoka.

I cascaded into leovald from a notion thief the other day and realized how much of a nonbo that is.
I agree Tusk can probably be cut but 4 rhinos makes me moist.
Not a huge fan of meren, when I played him, he didn't do much for me but maybe its time to try him out again albeit 4 cmc is the most contested.

If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.

Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.

More rhinos is more better. many games are won by chaining rhinos till your opponent gets angry and tells you to play real legacy.

I feel the same way with "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". If someone wants to have Rhino in the deck, max them out or don't play with them at all.

4 baby, herding the Skillerhino.

[Navsi]

I feel the same way with "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". If someone wants to have Rhino in the deck, max them out or don't play with them at all.

I've found a single Rhino to be pretty reasonable actually. Mainly because it's a source of direct damage and stabilization that also happens to work really well with SoFaI, but I don't want to devote multiple deck slots to a finisher which Miracles can trade 1 for 1 with.

[rubblekill]

I've found a single Rhino to be pretty reasonable actually. Mainly because it's a source of direct damage and stabilization that also happens to work really well with SoFaI, but I don't want to devote multiple deck slots to a finisher which Miracles can trade 1 for 1 with.

Even though I love the concept of playing 8rhinos in legacy, in the current metagame I have to agree wholeheartedly with you. I'd rather play a couple of trackers instead of the 3rd and 4th rhino for this exact reason.
Tracker is somewhat underrated I feel

[cherson]

I could imagine that casting rhinos in 4c list is also more heavy than for example a tracker. Personally I play 2 rhinos and 1 tracker.

I don't want to miss thragtusk, he won me so many games and makes people thinking abt their removal. Getting the 3/3 token is amazing.

Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk

[Arianrhod]

I've said my peace on the 4x rhino plan months ago. I think it's a trap, but hey, do you.

[Ricardio]

Tracker is strong and drawing cards is good but abrupt decay is a huge percentage of removal in legacy and in most match ups, I find myself losing because I cant cast all my spells, not a lack of having enough. I could see it being good in some matchups but at 3 cmc I would rather gsz for leo or wait a turn for Atraxa/rhino.

I appreciate this thread because there are so many different people working on the same menagerie deck. We each have unwritten rules to how we construct our nic fit decks. I don't think any person is wrong or that I am right but I operate under the assumption that as long as something works for me, I will use it until it needs to be updated. So things like less than 4 vet/rhino or playing stp over path go over my head because its not what I accept as correct but once again, im not all knowing so I could be wrong.

Back to focus: Beating ANT, I need help obviously haha

atm: -1 tusk, +1 seize to mb. +1 teeg to sb

[rubblekill]

Tracker is strong and drawing cards is good but abrupt decay is a huge percentage of removal in legacy and in most match ups, I find myself losing because I cant cast all my spells, not a lack of having enough. I could see it being good in some matchups but at 3 cmc I would rather gsz for leo or wait a turn for Atraxa/rhino.

I appreciate this thread because there are so many different people working on the same menagerie deck. We each have unwritten rules to how we construct our nic fit decks. I don't think any person is wrong or that I am right but I operate under the assumption that as long as something works for me, I will use it until it needs to be updated. So things like less than 4 vet/rhino or playing stp over path go over my head because its not what I accept as correct but once again, im not all knowing so I could be wrong.

Back to focus: Beating ANT, I need help obviously haha

atm: -1 tusk, +1 seize to mb. +1 teeg to sb

Canonist > kambal because cmc and harder lock

I thought exactly like you do now in regards to 8 rhinos, but I lost so many times against miracles that I lost the faith on that strategy. Probably I'm just a bad player
Tracker baits removal while always being a 241 with a fetch (I play 10 fetches), threaten to bury opponent with cards and becomes (very soon, I might add) bigger than rhino. It's a cheap dude online, try it! I was hesitant once like you..
it's not like it is a bad card like courser

[square_two]

it's not like it is a bad card like courser

There are a handful of sweet interactions in nic fit that I love, solely because of the look on the opponent's face once they realize what's happening.

Courser + Library/Top is one of them.
Playing Meren, having the Eldrazi player pick up the card and read it, then proceeding to get up to 5+ experience counters thanks to Tower/Vet is another.

Lately, there have been a few times I've waited until 5 or 6 mana, then played out Sneak Attack followed by Emrakul and it feels very similar. Even just playing Sneak Attack on turn 3 or 4 you sometimes get to watch a player suddenly realize that nic fit is about to kill them and they don't have an answer. It's the little things in life

Edit: Can't remember who mentioned running Daze in BUG Fit just for the candid camera gotcha! if you could ever snag something with it. (combo with Tracker lol)

[Brael]

There are a handful of sweet interactions in nic fit that I love, solely because of the look on the opponent's face once they realize what's happening.

Courser + Library/Top is one of them.
Playing Meren, having the Eldrazi player pick up the card and read it, then proceeding to get up to 5+ experience counters thanks to Tower/Vet is another.

Lately, there have been a few times I've waited until 5 or 6 mana, then played out Sneak Attack followed by Emrakul and it feels very similar. Even just playing Sneak Attack on turn 3 or 4 you sometimes get to watch a player suddenly realize that nic fit is about to kill them and they don't have an answer. It's the little things in life

I honestly never get tired of the look on my opponents face when I fetch a Dryad Arbor and completely screw their combat math. It gets even better when Meren returns the Arbor.

Another one I've been enjoying with SE is when I cast a Ranger of Eos, it gets a Sylvan Safekeeper+Endless One, and my opponent realizes all of their spot removal is now dead.

[ClimbGneiss]

Dromoka is a fine way to close out a game. Though, 5-drops are usually enough to close the game on their own.



B/c having a 5 (or 6, if you GSZ for it) mana card answered by Lightning Bolt is pretty bad.



Or, you know, you drop Titania, trigger goes on the stack and your opponent Bolts Titania in response where other cards would steal the game. It's high risk, high reward, but this deck doesn't win by taking risks. This deck wins by pulling ahead of your opponent and burying them in cards. Instead of Titania, opt for Siege Rhino/Sigarda and just go for the sure thing. Why give your opponent an out when you don't have to?

@Ricardio: Dude, that manabase looks like you're cruisin' for a bruisin'. Less duals, moar fetches! Up that colour count!

I can understand the notion that it would be a blowout to lose to bolt. Fortunately, burn and grixis delver are the only places that card is regularly found nowadays and if one identifies those decks, you can easily fetch one of your 3-4 rhinos instead. I think it's a completely reasonable, and even wise, card choice to have a bomb win condition like Titania. To me, it's been rare that I've established several 5/3's and not won right afterwards.

Bear in mind that I'm talking strictly about junk. I've seen the discussions about the 4 color list with Atraxa and Leovold and I couldnt be more in love. Casting cards like siege rhino, Leovold and Atraxa seem like what this deck is all about (in terms of fun and flavor). What are your thoughts on the blue splash?

[gth842s]

I can understand the notion that it would be a blowout to lose to bolt. Fortunately, burn and grixis delver are the only places that card is regularly found nowadays and if one identifies those decks, you can easily fetch one of your 3-4 rhinos instead. I think it's a completely reasonable, and even wise, card choice to have a bomb win condition like Titania. To me, it's been rare that I've established several 5/3's and not won right afterwards.

Bear in mind that I'm talking strictly about junk. I've seen the discussions about the 4 color list with Atraxa and Leovold and I couldnt be more in love. Casting cards like siege rhino, Leovold and Atraxa seem like what this deck is all about (in terms of fun and flavor). What are your thoughts on the blue splash?

I used to run Titania, so I do understand your desire to win on the spot. Unfortunately, if your Titania doesn't get bolted it's just as likely to get sent to the farm (StP) or be bounced by Karakas with trigger on the stack. It's just been too high-variance for me in testing. Grave Titan is strictly better if you want a card that people will concede to. At the five spot, Nissa is better than almost any other option out of sheer versatility - she's always good by virtue of her ability to get back a clutch silver bullet, apply pressure that is StP and Terminus-proof, or net tons of card advantage via the quick ultimate. If Delver were running wild, I might say that personal preference is fine, but Miracles is the deck with a target on its back and Nissa (as well as Thragtusk and Sigarda) is strictly better for that matchup.

Everyone is going to play and build this deck differently, but in my mind we are grinding the game out as plan A. When we win, it tends to be in showy fashion (with a rhino and / or a titan and / or a huge tireless tracker), but that's after many turns of pernicious deed into eternal witness-get back pernicious deed. We're a rock deck with a toolbox package in GSZ and the ability to turn the corner quickly. To that end, I've never been a fan of more than 2 rhinos. Rhinos 3 and 4, for me, are better spent as a Garruk and a Kaya (or a Nissa and a Kaya). They're both so much better against Miracles. If the meta shifts, those spots can be used to bring in other bullets to attack whatever the new meta's weaknesses are.

[ClimbGneiss]

I used to run Titania, so I do understand your desire to win on the spot. Unfortunately, if your Titania doesn't get bolted it's just as likely to get sent to the farm (StP) or be bounced by Karakas with trigger on the stack. It's just been too high-variance for me in testing. Grave Titan is strictly better if you want a card that people will concede to. At the five spot, Nissa is better than almost any other option out of sheer versatility - she's always good by virtue of her ability to get back a clutch silver bullet, apply pressure that is StP and Terminus-proof, or net tons of card advantage via the quick ultimate. If Delver were running wild, I might say that personal preference is fine, but Miracles is the deck with a target on its back and Nissa (as well as Thragtusk and Sigarda) is strictly better for that matchup.

Everyone is going to play and build this deck differently, but in my mind we are grinding the game out as plan A. When we win, it tends to be in showy fashion (with a rhino and / or a titan and / or a huge tireless tracker), but that's after many turns of pernicious deed into eternal witness-get back pernicious deed. We're a rock deck with a toolbox package in GSZ and the ability to turn the corner quickly. To that end, I've never been a fan of more than 2 rhinos. Rhinos 3 and 4, for me, are better spent as a Garruk and a Kaya (or a Nissa and a Kaya). They're both so much better against Miracles. If the meta shifts, those spots can be used to bring in other bullets to attack whatever the new meta's weaknesses are.

I like Kaya and Garruk a lot. I also like Nissa quite a bit. Is there not room for all of these? I see many lists running at least 2 of 3 of the above walkers and at least 2 rhinos, if not 3.

I can understand your point about responding to the trigger. Maybe I just havent had the blow out occur. The idea that you can gsz for Titania is the big draw to me. I mean, it's situational, right? You have to have some idea of whether it's a possibility or not. So, assuming partial knowledge of your opponents hand, its a great way to win the game. I think Nissa is the next most obvious choice.

I like that Kaya acts a little like a better version of Recurring Nightmare.

[ClimbGneiss]

I'm really interested to hear about everyone's thoughts about junk versus the new blue splash. I reallyyy like Leovold. That card seems right up this decks alley.

[mstephenson]

I'm really interested to hear about everyone's thoughts about junk versus the new blue splash. I reallyyy like Leovold. That card seems right up this decks alley.

Leovold is the tits man. He is maindeckable hate bear against combo decks that is still relevant against the rest of the field.

[emaugust]

@emaugust: Reread your post, saw your question was mainly about Sneak Fit. I'm mainly a Junk Fit guy, so there's no need for me to divulge.

Nah man it is all good knowledge if it is about Nic Fit!

[Ricardio]

http://i.imgur.com/8dfPej4.png

Moist Rhinos v2

Took some of the considerations and made the changes. I dont have time tonight to run it so probably tomorrow night. being sick sucks.
Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated.

CHEERS, M9