I just put this deck together on a lark last night, and after a few games of practice, immediately went 3-2 and 4-1 in leagues. This deck is bananas. I refuse to pay for Unmasks online so I'm running 3x Collective Brutality/4 Thoughtseize, and CB is a house basically every time. I'm gonna try the SSG/Chrome Mox build tonight, likely by cutting some Seizes and fatties (less impressed by Jin-Gitaxias so far).
I'm very curious about the white vs. green splash, it seems like it's focused on Abrupt Decay/Reverent Silence vs. Wear//Tear as the artifact/enchantment removal of choice. Green lets you fetch up a Bayou, blow up a T0 Leyline, and still combo out T1. So if you aren't going all-in on that plan, it seems like white is a better choice as it gives you more options for hitting Chalice, Grafdigger's Cage, Null Rod, etc. without requiring off-color mana. Is the green splash more popular among the Unmask builds, and white among the CB builds?
My biggest issue with this deck is deciding what to side out in games 2 and 3. Besides chancellor vs decks that do not have force/daze/drs, what other cards are sided out?
Belongs on your decklist and vs what deck you're playing. I almost never board out Chancellor, especially after boarding when we're normally otd they become more important, even when you're opponent don't play counter. They stop stuff like Turn 1 Cage, Turn 1 discard, Shaman, Surgical otp, etc. So u have 1turn to combo off or discard their hate.Originally Posted by maraxusofkelds
The only deck you'll SB out Chancellor against is Miracles and decks you think are SBing Leyline of the Void fwiw, you usually need a specific reason to cut them.
In many ways Chancellor is one of the most OP cards in the deck.
I agree that you should not side out the Chancellors in almost any matchup. It is a pretty good speed bump vs. any deck including the ones that maybe playing Leylines.
I played a list very close to the one from GP Chiba this past weekend in Atlanta in the legacy challenges at the SCG event. The only change I made in the main was -1 Sire +1 Ashen Rider because I've always liked that in the main when I played UBg Reanimator. Here are my results:
2-1-1 in the first challenge
2-1-1 in the second
3-0-1 in the third
All the draws were intentional to prize split and allow us to sign up for the next legacy event.
I beat the following:
12 Post, Shardless BUG twice, Turbo Depths twice, RG Lands and a deck with Eureka
Losses were to Shardless BUG and RG Lands
This deck feels unbeatable when your opening hand has a chancellor and a way to get a creature into/out of your graveyard. I won at least 3 games this way on mulls to 5 while on the play.
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One more thing I would say is definitely play the Unmasks. I have since built this in MTGO but like others did not want to spend the money for the Unmasks there and the deck doesn't feel as powerful without them.
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Do u guys think that Unmask's build is better than Collective Brutality's one? They're really different cause the Unmask build runs : 8 discard spells (4 Unmask and 4 Thoughtseize), no Simian Spirit Guide and 14 lands. The other one runs 4 Simian Spirit Guide, 6/7 discard spells and 12/13 lands. What do u guys think? I have done some testing and I've seen that both are pretty good but I can't decide which is better than the other one.
You can also play Simian Spirit Guide in the Unmask version. I tried both variants and prefer the version with Unmask, but at least it's a personal choice what to prefer.
A few notes against my personal preferences:
Chancellors come out only on the draw against Miracles, and rarely a few other decks if I really need slots. Now that I've moved to the wear//tear SB and have less cards consistently coming in, I don't feel the pressure to take them out so much.
The Collective Brutality build definitely seemed less explosive when I played it compared to Unmasks, but at the same time on the CB build I've played against much less DRS/Containment Priests, which is the reason why CB is so good (outside of being an uncounterable discard outlet). Mainly, the mana intensive (2 vs 0) for CB seemed much to overwhelming, I was going close to all-in while just doing my clearing the way. When it backfired (like having 2+ counters in their hand), CB just set back my ability to combo off that turn a lot of the time. And because of that, it makes me want to reinvestigate the SB splash, as in that case I really want AD if I'm playing Unmask for the facts that its a black card to pitch (which hurts you when you run Unmask + SSGs), and well its your answer to DRS/Containment Priest. Definitely can't run both AD and Wear//Tear, so that changes the SB immensely.
So basically we need a BR card that does what Abrupt Decay does... :)
I'm not quite sure I understand this logic.
If you collective brutality and they have two counters in hand, you get one and you still have your card in the graveyard.
If you unmask and they have two counters in hand, you get one and you have a card exiled.
These seem pretty comparable and I'm not quite sure how it can "backfire" as you describe. Can you elaborate or explain?
Often you Unmask yourself to get a card in the yard. If that gets countered you now are down the Unmask and the card exiled to cast it with nothing in the yard.
I posted my list at the end of the last page so I'm not sure if anyone saw it. It's using a 5 color mana base to support both AD and Wear Tear, as well as 2 Careful Study in addition to Faithless Looting in the main. You lose stuff like Massacre and Reverent Silence but it's been working pretty well for me.
The mana cost. To do CB T1, you need to expend at least one more card (Petal/SSG/Rit) while Unmask is 0 mana.
But you still 2 for 1 yourself with Unmask as well, and you don't get the ability to remove a Deathrite (or similar) in the process? Not to mention, the best part of Brutality is being able to throw a fatty into the bin "for free".
Is everyone really having that much issue casting Brutality T1? I've had strong results with it but admittedly, do like the heavy discard version using 4x Thoughtseize / 4x Unmask as well.
I also prefer the unmask version too, if they have a DRS on the field, you try to kill him, it still can get countered and it's possible, it's your first discard spell you played. DRS can still be discarded with unmask.
BTW apart from 4 chancellors, 4 brands, 1 sire, what is your creature of choice? Tidespout tyrant seems bad in a lot of situations - can get killed too easily and then you have won nothing, although I realize, he is good against lands and karakas in general, I am thinking about grave titan or Iona, your thoughts?
I've actually been super impressed with Tidespout Tyrant lately (online), he gets around Karakas and Pithing Needle and I find that when I'm Entombing him instead of Griselbrand, I have almost a full grip and can bounce nearly their entire board. His #1 weakness is being Dismemberable, so he's not my first choice, but he's often my second.
If I had to pick something else, I'd go with Grave Titan (if your meta is slower) or Blazing Archon (if your meta is faster). Iona is often either instant-game-over or strictly-worse-than-Griselbrand depending on the matchup, and IMO it's more the latter than the former.
Is there a starter pack sideboarding guide in this thread I hit take a look at? I feel like my sideboaring in and out is completely off. Obviously, sideboarding comes from experience and it is different depending on situations but a general starter one I can take a look at for generalization in what to take out and bring in would be amazing.
Hi Medea_,
I'm too a D&T player, building BR Reanimator as a second choice for different metagames.
They key cards as a D&T player you need to take into account are:
Chancellor of the Annex - The best T1 play you have against a T1/2 reanimated Griselbrand is StP, chancellor says no to this and there is no workaround for it (other than closing your eyes and hoping they miss the trigger). If you're on the draw you will be destroyed, as you can't even resolve vial or mum which are your alternative plays. If you're on the play you can sac a mum/vial to be able to untap and plow the gbrand, while hoping the 14 cards they drew don't include entomb or g/brand + discard or reanimation spells, which is quite impossible. If they show you this as pregame action, about 75% of the times you already lost. Your best out is to cast through a Cavern a Containment Priest if you're on the play and they don't have the T1.
Unmask - This is the free discard spell that will get rid of your outs while they go off drawing cards off griselbrand. This card seals games before they get started for D&T players.
Sire of Insanity - The weakest T1 reanimation route of BR Reanimator is still incredibly strong against D&T, as it forces you to topdeck both a white producing land and a removal spell in 4 turns.
Add to this Thoughtseize and you can find yourself very behind very fast.
The MU is incredibly rough as long as they have a decent draw. They can go for GBrand and wreck your hand, Tyrant and never let you develop, or Elesh Norn and force you to go topdeck mode into Karakas. It's the complete opposite of UB Reanimator.
Off the board there is Massacre too, and some builds even run Burning Wish for it.
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
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