I play always with one in the sideboard an he's quit good. Vs Mirror u can Entomb in resp to Exhume or put him into Show and Tell. Tidespout Tyrant does more or less the same, but both are playable.Originally Posted by Doneval
This is interesting, because I've been talking to TinFins players about the possibility of adding Chancellors and Brutality because of how much better they make Chalice matchups. To me that's one of the main strengths of this deck vs. UB or TinFins. Are you not finding them to be very helpful there?
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Chancellor is good in your opening hand, but really mediocre in every other situation, and even mediocre in your opener if it's your only reanimation target. Getting it out on T1 still gives your opponent at least 4-5 turns to find an answer while you have to hope to draw into a second threat. The protection it offers may not be worth it if it harms the deck's ability to end the game fast.
Your lowest CMC creature is 6 (Sire of Insanity/Grave Titan), but more likely 8 (Griselbrand). So what decks don't run any creatures with a CMC less than 8?Hy,
I'm new arround here and i have a doubt!
What matchups we should use the stronghold gambit and what's the tech?!
Because al the matchups i imagine ti side it in have creatures whith lowest converted mana cost!
Thanks
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- Lands
- Storm (TES runs Xantid Swarm but isn't likely to bring it in unless they think you're on blue)
- Belcher
- 12-Post
- Omnitell
- Enchantress
If you're against a deck with a low number of creatures, you can even start with a Thoughtseize to make them discard their creature or Brainstorm, then SG to get your own into play while they get nothing. It's a high-risk high-reward play, but then again, so is this entire deck. :P
12 Post runs Primeval Titan, Enchantress runs Argothian Enchantress, Belcher runs Simian Spirit Guide or Elvish Spirit Guide and Lands definitly brings Tireless Tracker :P
I know we like to discard or opponents first, but nevertheless Stronghold Gambit is not that good in the current meta. Also none of the mentioned matchups are bad. Lands can be toughsometimes, but if u wanna beat Lands just play Blood Moon.
Or Tidespout Tyrant?
If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage
My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.
I am the Legacy metagame:
-2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
-2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
-Refiner of Hogaak Depths.
Is it worth try to play Blood Moon without Simian Spirit Guide? I'm trying to squeeze 2/3 Moons in the sideboard, but I also want to play Unmask main (so I don't have space for SSG)
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
What do u guys think about Inferno titan as a 3rd (sire + grave titan) hard-castable MD threat (playing SSG) in an effort to shore up matches with RIP, LoTV, Chalice and Karakas?
Inferno Titan? Really? No, I don't think it's playable.
Whenever someone is going to suggest a creature threat, or a potential sideboard card, consider the roles we already have covered:
Griselbrand: Wins the game
Iona: beats combo, locks out opponents without Karakas
Archetype of Endurance: beats Karakas
Tidespout: beats permanent-based combo decks (Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Dark Depths) while also locking out Lands and various stax decks
Grave Titan: beats Karakas / Maze while providing sufficient value against StP
Inkwell Leviathan: An Archetype effect that is a slightly faster clock
Elesh Norn: kills stupid creatures
Inferno Titan doesn't do anything that we are looking for. Elesh Norn is better at dealing with tons of creatures, and both of them die to StP.
Same thing with sideboard cards. Right now the two plans that take up the majority of sideboards are:
Reactive: Abrupt Decay, Reverent Silence package or Wear/Tear
Proactive: Sneak Attack, Blood Moon
People suggest something like Pithing Needle: the only card you could want this for is Karakas, because both existing plans can beat pretty much anything else. Why not just play a creature or two that beats Karakas + StP?
Sideboard plan I'm looking for (feel free to suggest): a way to beat Grixis Delver on the draw without Blood Moon. Right now Blood Moon is the best plan that I've heard of.
If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage
My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.
I am the Legacy metagame:
-2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
-2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
-Refiner of Hogaak Depths.
How about Platinum Emperion? their removal can't take it (unless triple bolt or bolt + dismember) and it's a great clock. It also has the benefit of giving you Madcap Experiment as another GY hate tool (meaning it's not just good against one deck in particular), and is also an engine that requires only 1 card to go off (besides ramp) unlike Sneak Attack, Stronghold Gambit or Show and Tell. The idea might be too far fetched though, feels kinda cute but it could work. This plan (if the experiment is added to board as well) would imply siding out Petals so maybe in a monkey version is not too crazy.
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
It's not important what creature you get out vs Delver even Chancellor of the Annex is good enough if we can reanimate him early. My plan vs Grixis is always to beat him.with tempo Brutality handels the Shaman and the only other hate they usually play is Surgical Extraction. If you really fear the matchup I'd play Carpet of Flowers in the sideboard, helps u to play around all softcounter and helps hardcasting Grave Titan, Sire of Insanity or other creatures.
The Medcap Experiment plan is not a good idea. If u want to play a c4 card just play Sneak Attack.
Bad card is bad. No evasion, no protection, no impact on game state. 174% out classed by Wurmcoil Engine, which is also sub-par.
EDIT for clarity:
Back on track, the card you want is Sphinx of the Steel Wind against grixis delver as they have marginal ways to deal with it (flipped delver block + dismember). And the lifelink makes for easy secondary reanimation/second target.
Last edited by Luklinda; 12-16-2016 at 02:28 PM.
It is great to see how lively this thread is and I feel pretty happy to notice how much traction the deck gained this year.
This being said, I think people should relax a bit when it comes to justifying why this creature should be played while this one should.
Imho I see no reason to play Archetype of Endurance. Like, really none. I consider the card to be overkill and so do not see a reason to include it in my 75.
On the other hand, I could make a case for Ashen Rider which is probably our best answer to Show n Tell decks or to hate like Leyline (when playing with Stronghold Gambit or S.Attack). I think the list who toped 8 in Chiba was a clear example pointing at the fact that the card IS useful, maybe given a certain meta that is (because as much as I like the Rider, playing 2 seems a tad heavy still).
Moving to Inferno Titan, again, despite a rather well constructed case made against him, let's not forget that the capacity to inflict 6 to 12 damages when coupled with Sneak Attack can make it quite the finisher we need in some situations. Not in all, this is true. Also, the card is not legendary, as it was really pointed at. Admitedly, depending on the board state and the MU, Grave Titan might be better if the opponent is playing StP, for instance, while when dealing with SnT, Inferno Titan would likely be better. When facing a Liliana already on the board, I reckon that both Titans are good. Inferno being even able to bolt her face when you bring it on the board. While Grave will make sure there is always a pawn to sacrifice if needed be. So all in all, I would not discard Inferno Titan as easily as that. I truly think it is more meta-dependant as well as build-orientation dependant (namely a deck running both SSGs and Moons is more likely to get a higher value of Inferno Titan for instance).
My 2 cents
I've played a fair bit against Grixis Delver and they can't deal with a turn 1 or 2 Sire of Insanity. The only problem is getting it out there past the dazes, fow, and surgicals.
People misunderstanding my post.
First, Sire of Insanity is beatable with topdeck Dismember. Any creature that beats Dismember is *probably* enough against Delver.
Second, we're looking for a sideboard plan that beats delver outside of the normal reanimation plan. The reanimation plan already wins instantly, but is easily disruptable by Deathrite Shaman, tons of counters, or Surgical Extraction.
Example sideboard plans:
1) 4 Pack Rat / Goblin Rabblemaster / Young Pyromancer or other single-creature-based threat
2) 4 Bitterblossom
3) Gurmag Angler / Tasigur delve creatures
4) simple 3-4 Collective Brutality approach
If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage
My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.
I am the Legacy metagame:
-2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
-2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
-Refiner of Hogaak Depths.
I think 2 and 4 are your best bets. Grixis doesn't have a whole lot of enchantment removal by default, it's likely in the form of Abrupt Decay which they almost certainly won't bring in against this deck. And Collective Brutality hits Grixis in all the ways it doesn't want to be hit. Any small single creature is just going to get Bolted, and Pack Rat is too expensive. If they have an active DRS and you can't re-animate, you won't be able to Delve reliably either.
I've got about 30 matches under my belt with the deck right now, so I'm very new to it. Thinking about different Grixis sideboard options, is there any value in siding Wasteland? Most Grixis builds you can waste their single trop and then deathrite is neutralized, and it also answers Karakas against D&T and Lands, which is nice splash damage.
I haven't tested this or given it more than 5 minutes of thought, so maybe it's a terrible idea, but I figured I'd throw it out there and see what stuck.
Alternately, it certainly sounds like a matchup where Phyrexian Obliterator would excel. They don't run *that* many dismembers, do they?
I don't play a ton of Reanimator, but I've tried the Pack Rat approach in the past and it was really good. They're pretty unlikely to keep Bolt against you, and 1 removal spell doesn't answer the Rat if you have 2B up when it resolves.
Phyrexian Obliterator is definitly an option. I tried him out and he's awesome in some matchups especially Delver. Removal is not a problem, they are boarding it out normally, a smart player knows when the creature is on the battlefield it's too late. LTogether with Carpet of Flowers Obliterator is even stronger. Also Grave Titan and Sire are easy to hardcast and the card beats all softcounter. Trust me and give it a try. :D with 2 Carpets on the board it's also very easy to hardcast Griselbrand, really great card in all Delver matchups. But why fear Grixis? Not our best matchup, but I had more problems with BUG and the deck is not that important atm because everybody plays Grixis and the matchup is imo better.
I've found that the "once a creature is on the battlefield it's too late" approach from UB Reanimator isn't nearly as true with this deck. I've lost multiple games with a big creature in play. It's still really good, but not being able to draw into Force is disappointing.
It's a tradeoff I'm willing to make in order to get as many T1 kills as I get, but if you let them make a few land drops and deal some damage to you, you can be in real trouble even with whatever creature you happen to get. And without Brainstorm/Ponder to help filter, sometimes you're just stuck with whatever you draw, not the best creature for the matchup.
I've been playing around with Stronghold Gambit as my sideboard anti-hate, but I want to test a Grave Titan/Obliterator package at some point. Could use Carpet, could use Lake of the Dead. I like the idea of having Obliterator though.
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