[Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

[Jeff]

So much for staying off the radar...

My thoughts exactly. Wish this could've waited a month.

EDIT: No criticism of the mods, I understand why. I'm not saying you should've done things differently, I just wish the deck had stayed under the radar a little longer.

[Dice_Box]

What are first and second?

Jund and Eldrazi.

My thoughts exactly. Wish this could've waited a month.

I have a trip planed to Canberra for an eternal event. Sadly that locks me out of having the funds to make this, but I did buy all the non creature cards I was missing. Kind of wish it had of held off too. Blame the deck for being so sweet.

[CptHaddock]

My thoughts exactly. Wish this could've waited a month.

EDIT: No criticism of the mods, I understand why. I'm not saying you should've done things differently, I just wish the deck had stayed under the radar a little longer.

Was this deck really on no one's radar? Seems like for the past couple of months people have been ranting and raving about BR reanimator and it's put up decent results in various tournaments. It's also really cheap (atleast for a legacy deck) and imo has way more playability than something like belcher or oops.

[Atherion]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/532429#online

what do y'all think about this decklist? Especially the SB. 3x blood moon and 3x grave titan.

Is blood moon that much better against grixis than pyrblast? Kinda hard to resolve when it costs that much (and red) and they have access to so much disruption.

Also I'd like to hear your opinions with siding againt miracles: let's assume you have access to 2x needle, 2x pyroblast, 3x collective brutality, how would you side in that situation with an unmask build? And given that you don't have a blistering fast hand, is it better to drag the game out a little or risk a T2 reanimation eg?

[laststepdown]

Jund skyrocketed to DTB when people tried playing it in Legacy during its Modern heyday - DRS, BBE, etc.

Edit: Not sure about Eldrazi, but Jund went straight from New and Development to DTB after 6 pages of its thread's inception.

Not to derail this thread, but Jund as an archetype has been honestly around in legacy & winning tournaments since the printing of tarmogoyf, before modern was ever conceptualized, and before planeswalkers and cascade were even printed. "Jund" wasn't a word in 2007, so we called it RBG Aggro, or as the original creator was pushing for, the name "Gagomy". It's the exact same attrition-based archetype. You can google "Gagomy mtg" or refer to these posts on this forum for any of your research:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...s-Legacy-Event

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...GAGOMY-GBR-Zoo

Interesting stuff there, honestly.

Back on track, as for B/R Reanimator: To the person unhappy that the deck is no longer 'under the radar'-I'm assuming you either started playing legacy in just the past few years, are trolling, or are completely delusional-my apologies if you actually are suffering from mental delusion, and I hope it gets better-results are all over the web, on multiple tournament result listings worldwide. It isn't hidden information. I've played magic literally 3 times in the past 3 years on fringe occasions. I do have 20+ years of magic experience though, so playing against this deck for the 'first time'(the B/R variation recently that is, couldn't tell you when I first played vs the mono black or UB variations-just so long ago) after not playing for a year just brought me nostalgia of the old mono-black lists. I can tell you with 100% accuracy this deck hasn't been under anyone's radar in the past few months, much less the past decade. I hope this helps.

[Jeff]

Was this deck really on no one's radar? Seems like for the past couple of months people have been ranting and raving about BR reanimator and it's put up decent results in various tournaments. It's also really cheap (atleast for a legacy deck) and imo has way more playability than something like belcher or oops.

To the person unhappy that the deck is no longer 'under the radar'-I'm assuming you either started playing legacy in just the past few years, are trolling, or are completely delusional-my apologies if you actually are suffering from mental delusion, and I hope it gets better-results are all over the web, on multiple tournament result listings worldwide. It isn't hidden information. I've played magic literally 3 times in the past 3 years on fringe occasions. I do have 20+ years of magic experience though, so playing against this deck for the 'first time'(the B/R variation recently that is, couldn't tell you when I first played vs the mono black or UB variations-just so long ago) after not playing for a year just brought me nostalgia of the old mono-black lists. I can tell you with 100% accuracy this deck hasn't been under anyone's radar in the past few months, much less the past decade. I hope this helps.

Do I think people didn't know about the deck? Absolutely not. Everyone's aware of it. But there are a lot of decks people know about that they decide aren't worth adjusting their sideboard for. To me, when something makes it to the Decks to Beat section on the source, it signifies that it's putting up enough results that you should expect to face it at a 15 round tournament at least once. I don't think it appearing in the decks to beat section means people who weren't aware of it will suddenly become aware of it, but I do think a nonzero number of people will sideboard more for it than they would have otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong, hard to say.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/532429#online

what do y'all think about this decklist? Especially the SB. 3x blood moon and 3x grave titan.

Is blood moon that much better against grixis than pyrblast? Kinda hard to resolve when it costs that much (and red) and they have access to so much disruption.

That's my list. I wouldn't read too much into it. I had the following matches

Grixis Reanimator (2-1)
TES (2-0)
Burn (2-1)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Miracles (2-1)

I never even boarded in the Blood Moons, much less drew them. I've played a 6 leagues over the past week (two 5-0, one 4-1, three 3-2), all with widely variant sideboards as I just try to get experience with different approaches. No idea what the right build is, but I do know you can't learn anything about Blood Moon from the fact that I went 5-0 with that list.

My hope was that Blood Moon would be a good card against both Grixis and Eldrazi. I've yet to play a game against either with it, so it's still possible I'm just dramatically wrong on that one. I'm going to a tournament at my local shop tonight and testing some with friends beforehand, so maybe I'll learn something about Grixis.

Also I'd like to hear your opinions with siding againt miracles: let's assume you have access to 2x needle, 2x pyroblast, 3x collective brutality, how would you side in that situation with an unmask build? And given that you don't have a blistering fast hand, is it better to drag the game out a little or risk a T2 reanimation eg?

Over those same 6 leagues I'm 6-1 against Miracles by siding like this
-1 Elesh Norn
-1 Collective Brutality
-3/4 Animate Dead

+2/3 cards that answer both CBalance and RiP (Wear/Tear or Abrupt Decay, depending on the color)
+2/3 ways around graveyard hate (Stronghold Gambit/Grave Titan/Pack Rat)

I've yet to see a RiP at all, and I've also yet to remove a counterbalance that's resolved and then go on to win the game. I'm consistently winning matches by making them have it on turn 1 or 2, and I'm able to fight through a single Force or Surgical fairly well. When you let the game go longer, even with needle and pyroblast and brutality, they're going to be better at going long than you are. I really think the right thing to do is to not let up off the gas and try to kill them before they have the mana to start sculpting their hand and casting Counterspell+Flusterstorm or whatnot. As such I'm considering not even siding in the decays or w/t unless I see RiP. I'd rather not have them cluttering up my hands that are trying to kill turn 1 or 2 if they're not likely to actually help me win if the game goes long. If I do that I'll have to include Tidespout or Ashen Rider or something in the board plan since Ensnaring Bridge is now a thing out of miracles.

[jroharo]

Do I think people didn't know about the deck? Absolutely not. Everyone's aware of it. But there are a lot of decks people know about that they decide aren't worth adjusting their sideboard for. To me, when something makes it to the Decks to Beat section on the source, it signifies that it's putting up enough results that you should expect to face it at a 15 round tournament at least once. I don't think it appearing in the decks to beat section means people who weren't aware of it will suddenly become aware of it, but I do think a nonzero number of people will sideboard more for it than they would have otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong, hard to say.



That's my list. I wouldn't read too much into it. I had the following matches

Grixis Reanimator (2-1)
TES (2-0)
Burn (2-1)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Miracles (2-1)

I never even boarded in the Blood Moons, much less drew them. I've played a 6 leagues over the past week (two 5-0, one 4-1, three 3-2), all with widely variant sideboards as I just try to get experience with different approaches. No idea what the right build is, but I do know you can't learn anything about Blood Moon from the fact that I went 5-0 with that list.

My hope was that Blood Moon would be a good card against both Grixis and Eldrazi. I've yet to play a game against either with it, so it's still possible I'm just dramatically wrong on that one. I'm going to a tournament at my local shop tonight and testing some with friends beforehand, so maybe I'll learn something about Grixis.



Over those same 6 leagues I'm 6-1 against Miracles by siding like this
-1 Elesh Norn
-1 Collective Brutality
-3/4 Animate Dead

+2/3 cards that answer both CBalance and RiP (Wear/Tear or Abrupt Decay, depending on the color)
+2/3 ways around graveyard hate (Stronghold Gambit/Grave Titan/Pack Rat)

I've yet to see a RiP at all, and I've also yet to remove a counterbalance that's resolved and then go on to win the game. I'm consistently winning matches by making them have it on turn 1 or 2, and I'm able to fight through a single Force or Surgical fairly well. When you let the game go longer, even with needle and pyroblast and brutality, they're going to be better at going long than you are. I really think the right thing to do is to not let up off the gas and try to kill them before they have the mana to start sculpting their hand and casting Counterspell+Flusterstorm or whatnot. As such I'm considering not even siding in the decays or w/t unless I see RiP. I'd rather not have them cluttering up my hands that are trying to kill turn 1 or 2 if they're not likely to actually help me win if the game goes long. If I do that I'll have to include Tidespout or Ashen Rider or something in the board plan since Ensnaring Bridge is now a thing out of miracles.

Nice work helping pioneer the archetype. I was hoping to find 'jeffderek' on here somewhere.

Per your discussion on Miracles: I also think that going fast is the best way to handle the matchup. I'm not sure it's worth sideboarding many cards against them. Their best answer is Surgical/Priest, which we can answer with discard or Brutality. Plus we have an insane g1 win %, so we just have to steal g2 or g3.

Between the green splash and the white: which do you think is better against which matchups? I have been playing the green splash (3 AD / 3 Rev Silence), though I've been sorely tempted to free up some sideboard slots and switch to white.

Edit: also just to throw in some numbers, I've gone 11-2 over the last week in matches at local Legacy tournaments with RB Reanimator (unmask, green splash), including taking first in the Swiss of a GPT for Louisville (already have my byes so I dropped before t8).

[Jeff]

Between the green splash and the white: which do you think is better against which matchups? I have been playing the green splash (3 AD / 3 Rev Silence), though I've been sorely tempted to free up some sideboard slots and switch to white.

Honestly? I have literally no idea. I'm not winning games where I'm destroying permanents that stop me and then going off. I'm winning games by preventing my opponent from ever playing magic in the first place. I have won a few longer games, but they feel more like flukes than experiences to build off of.

We don't have Brainstorm and Ponder to help us assemble the right answers. By the time we find one of our 3-of answers for a specific hate permanent, the game could well be out of hand. Given that I'm seriously considering not boarding anti-permanent cards against anything except Leyline of the void.

All that said, I'm going to do some actual testing over the next few weeks in addition to jamming leagues online, so we'll see what happens. What I'd like is a good plan that involves just casting individual threats that I can board in, whether it's things like Blood Moon that turn entire decks off or things like Pack Rat/Grave Titan/Obliterator, etc, but so far I haven't found any of those plans to be particularly good. Maybe Stronghold Gambit is good enough, maybe playing Show and Tell is the answer, maybe just kill them on turn 1 after they didn't mulligan to Leyline.

[RhoxWarMonk]

This is what I've been testing - sideboard changes almost weekly, just can't seem to get something I like... :/

Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Spells
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Unmask
4 Lotus Petal
3 Animate Dead
2 Thoughtseize

Lands
4 Badlands
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp

I hated the lone Mountain in the deck a lot of people run - it feels so bad to have a great hand, and all you need is a black source but instead, you get to stare at a.... mountain....

Really wish I could play with 4x SSG / 4x Unmask / 4x Thoughtseize. I currently am running the sneak attack plan in the SB (though thinking of going the Wear/Tear route instead), so I feel you kinda need the extra gas in SSG's if you're running Sneaks IMO. I guess this is where the lone mountain comes in I think I'll go with Wear/Tear and a scrubland in that slot, to take care of Bridges and Leylines. Unfortunately, a lot of people are now playing Surgical Extraction, which isn't solved by the white splash at all. Tough card to play around as well.

[jroharo]

Honestly? I have literally no idea. I'm not winning games where I'm destroying permanents that stop me and then going off. I'm winning games by preventing my opponent from ever playing magic in the first place. I have won a few longer games, but they feel more like flukes than experiences to build off of.

This has been my experience as well, which is why I am leaning more and more toward the white splash (though to be honest i have not tested it yet), since it takes up fewer sideboard slots.

[Zooligan]

Back on track, as for B/R Reanimator: To the person unhappy that the deck is no longer 'under the radar'-I'm assuming you either started playing legacy in just the past few years, are trolling, or are completely delusional-my apologies if you actually are suffering from mental delusion, and I hope it gets better-results are all over the web, on multiple tournament result listings worldwide. It isn't hidden information. I've played magic literally 3 times in the past 3 years on fringe occasions. I do have 20+ years of magic experience though, so playing against this deck for the 'first time'(the B/R variation recently that is, couldn't tell you when I first played vs the mono black or UB variations-just so long ago) after not playing for a year just brought me nostalgia of the old mono-black lists. I can tell you with 100% accuracy this deck hasn't been under anyone's radar in the past few months, much less the past decade. I hope this helps.

I'm fairly certain I'm not completely delusional all of the time... :P

BR Reanimator certainly wasn't an unknown deck. it's been in budget Legacy lists for a while. But there is a difference between known and in The Source's Decks to Beat section. Heck, there's plenty of stuff not in Decks to Beat that are way more known and "mainstream" than this deck. Limelight is going to put a target on it. But that's ok, as it's an adaptable archetype.

[Zooligan]

Unfortunately, a lot of people are now playing Surgical Extraction, which isn't solved by the white splash at all. Tough card to play around as well.

You can have a chance to Faerie Macabre the G-dog in your graveyard and prevent them from extracting them all, if you have them in your board.

[TokenMaster]

If you have the mana for it, you can also respond to things like Faerie Macabre and DRS with Entomb if you're casting Exhume.

[Luklinda]

I hated the lone Mountain in the deck a lot of people run - it feels so bad to have a great hand, and all you need is a black source but instead, you get to stare at a.... mountain....

Really wish I could play with 4x SSG / 4x Unmask / 4x Thoughtseize. I currently am running the sneak attack plan in the SB (though thinking of going the Wear/Tear route instead), so I feel you kinda need the extra gas in SSG's if you're running Sneaks IMO. I guess this is where the lone mountain comes in I think I'll go with Wear/Tear and a scrubland in that slot, to take care of Bridges and Leylines. Unfortunately, a lot of people are now playing Surgical Extraction, which isn't solved by the white splash at all. Tough card to play around as well.

Cutting the mountain is perfectly fine if you're running 4x LP + 4x SSG. You leave yourself a bit vulnerable to wastelands w/out it - though that is negligible. The driving factor should be your SB. If you run red cards that you'd like to cast or are using as anti-hate cards - then you should absolutely run the basic mountain. If you're running sneak - I'd be more inclined to keep it in the 60.

My $0.02

[MiraclesWizard]

hate to break it to you guys, but this was on the radar long before the MODs shed light on it here.

[Zooligan]

hate to break it to you guys, but this was on the radar long before the MODs shed light on it here.

Guess it depends upon your def of 'on the radar'. DtB is the spotlight, three months ago it was flying low, three months before that it was a fringe budget deck.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I played at my local shop last night, which is always 90+% real decks by good players, and the vast majority of the room was like "Oh man, is that the RB reanimator deck? I heard about it but I haven't seen it yet, is it fun?"

[jroharo]

Yeah, I played at my local shop last night, which is always 90+% real decks by good players, and the vast majority of the room was like "Oh man, is that the RB reanimator deck? I heard about it but I haven't seen it yet, is it fun?"

Tell them "No, it's not fun, and it's a terrible deck. Don't play it at GP Louisville." hahaha

[ironclad8690]

It's not like gy decks have not on people's radars for the entire history of legacy lol. The beauty of this deck is that you can beat the hate or race it.

[Jeff]

It's not like gy decks have not on people's radars for the entire history of legacy lol. The beauty of this deck is that you can beat the hate or race it.

This will be my last comment on whether the deck is on the radar or not, because this is a dumb discussion, but for some reason I can't help myself but commenting one more time.

Yes, people will have graveyard hate regardless. But Miracles players are switching from RIP to Surgical just because of this deck, since they have to race. Eldrazi decks are playing Leyline instead of Crypt or something similar. People are modifying their graveyard hate because the right graveyard hate to beat this deck is not necessarily the same hate you want to beat Dredge. I'm seeing a lot more Faerie Macabres just to beat Chancellor.