Has anybody been testing the 4 flier maindeck versions against the mirror? I know a lot of people still play 4 Flickerwisps and 2 Avengers but I'm on 3 and 1. I feel like this makes me super super weak in the mirror and my regular slots for D&T in the board have been getting cut for Reanimator hate.
This is a list I'm working on for Louisville though so I want to make sure I have my matchup %s shored up as much as possible across the field.
23 Lands
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mom
3 Revoker
3 SFM
1 Spirit of the Lab
2 Prelate
3 Recruiter
3 Flickerwisp
1 Avenger
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Palace Jailer
4 Aether Vial
1 Jitte
1 SoFaI
1 Batterskull
4 STP
Sideboard:
2 Gideon AOZ
1 Cataclysm
2 RIP
2 Path to Exile
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Council's Judgment
Right now, my "locked" cards for the SB are everything except 2nd Gideon, 2 Macabres, and 2nd Canonist.
Here's my reasoning for them:
2nd Gideon - great against the mirror (which I am incredibly soft to thanks to my lower flier count... but fliers are just so medium in other matchups right now), Miracles, Shardless. All popular decks that will show up in masses at the GP level
2 Macabres - my only real early interaction vs BR Reanimator. These two slots feel so bad to have but I don't want to get caught with my pants down. I don't play Legacy online due to lack of funds for ports so I'm not sure what the large meta looks like atm
2nd Canonist - for Elves, Storm, Burn, and Aluren. Aluren and Elves in particular seem to be rising in popularity so this feels like a must-have. Also Burn is always stupidly popular at the GP level... yucky but WCYD
The last 3 cards I REALLY want to squeeze in are 1x Pontiff, 1x Sword of War and Peace, and the 2nd Pithing Needle. Pontiff is awesome in the mirror and vs Elves, SOWAP is great in the mirror and vs Miracles/combo, and 2nd Needle is just a great catch-all. In particular, these are 3 cards that REALLY help me a lot against other D&T decks. I feel confident in my ability to out-navigate the mirror against the average GP level player but it feels like there are a large range of hands where I am just dead even if I play perfectly thanks to the way my deck is constructed. I'm not certain how badly I'll need the extra SB slots.
What do you guys think? How would you guys build a sideboard for GP Louisville based on meta expectation?
Recorded a legacy league playing Arbiter Taxes. Will record one with a more regular D&T list too: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...PVsTIGTMT7sQsJ
You can follow me on Twitter at: www.twitter.com/MartinFSNielsen
Thanks for this, I was wondering about Arbiter's weight on Legacy alongside the good ol Ghost Quarter, although I'm not sure about the impact it has on SFM and Recruiter, which I don't think can play along Arbiter (or it could hurt). Streaming now.Originally Posted by nevilshute
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
Thanks for watching. I think it might be correct to go up to the 25th land adding a white source, probably another plains. Having played a couple of leagues now I do seem to mulligan just a tad bit much.
I think we need the stoneforge package at least somewhat intact. I personally don't feel like playing without the batterskull in there because the deck can otherwise feel a bit low on beefyness. We don't run the avengers and so we can end up a bit light in creature matchups when we can't fetch out a batterskull. Having said that it is something to be mindful of for sure.
You can follow me on Twitter at: www.twitter.com/MartinFSNielsen
I commented on your video for M3 I think, the one vs Delver, about the play you chose with SFM. Would love feedback on that thought.
I think Arbiter can be lackluster, although SFM too in some matches, but GQ power level is not dependant on having Arbiter out. Maybe no Arbiter, no Mindcensor and 2 GQ with 24 lands is the way to achieve balance between a more powerful mana denial plan and the consistency of D&T. This would free up 2 slots for basics/white sources or even 2 caverns and free up 6 slots to get 2/3 Recruiters, 1/2 Prelates, 1/2 Avengers and maybe the 4th Mom.
I am also pondering with the idea of running a little black splash for Dark Confidant in the main some SB tech cards and 3 Thoughtseizes in the 75. But I'm not sure how to balance the slots. Here's where I'm at with this idea:
4x Aether Vial
1x Thoughtseize
3x Mother of Runes
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Dark Confidant
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Umezwa's Jitte
4x Flickerwisp
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
4x Marsh Flats
3x Scrubland
3x Plains
3x Karakas
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
2x Thoughtseize
2x Containment Priest
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Lingering Souls
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Council's Judgment
1x Vindicate
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Cataclysm
I'm still not convinced if the effort is worth. Anyone with experience can tell if this approach can be good? I'd asume in a grindy and combo meta the black can really weigh in, which is the case in my LGS.
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
this card seems ok for the green splash but Im not sure what I would take out for this. I think its a pretty good utility card, that can get back cards like Thalia, Umezawa's Jitte, Wasteland, Serra Avenger, Qasali Pridemage, Revoker, e.t.c back to the battlefield. I can see it as atleast a 1of in the deck as it can be tutored by recruiter. Also, with the green splash you have fetchlands so it is easier to trigger revolt and the revolt mechanic really fits that ability for obvious reasons.
This looks a lot like what it will take to get maverick going again...
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I'm not really convinced Renegade Rallier does anything that the deck really needs. I just don't think the power level of this card is high enough to want to work with the conditions. If I'm playing green splash D&T, I'd rather have things like Teeg in my flex slots. If I'm playing Maverick, this is approximate in power level to Eternal Witness, and is probably not a reason to pick up the deck. I think the ideal situations are great, but the average situation might be pretty underwhelming.
3 days until the GP and I still haven't nailed down my 75...
My general questions:
1. There's been a bit more hype about S&T in the last few weeks; and Reanimator continues to be on an upswing -> (SB) 2 Containment Priests??
2. D&T is going to be popular with new toys; additionally have seen some movement from Stoneblade decks -> (SB) Manriki Gusari??
3. In a GP I want broad answers and decks have begun leaning on TNN again -> 2? Council's Judgement
4. Is Cataclysm needed in SB? Is Gideon enough vs. Miracles; do I want Cata for other match-ups? i.e. lands or 12post or Shardless?
5. THC. I was running 3 in the main; then 2 in the main; now 0. I have no idea even after playing with her if I like her or not.
6. Another deck purported to pop (and the cost is way down if you use Recruiter of the Guard) is Aluren; Revoker(mb) and Canonist(sb) seem like the best options. Is there anything else to include?
7. Has anyone figured out a way yet to have a good/positive match-up vs. Eldrazi?
8. Palace Jailer? Super expensive Banisher Priest? or great card for drawing cards and repeatable (i.e. flickerable) removal?
9. Last, (the big one); do I include a small splash for either Magus and/or Pontiff. In a world of Shardless, Eldrazi, Lands,etc... Magus seems very appealing. And against Elves; TNNs and even the mirror.. Pontiff feels like he do good work.
I don't think anyone really knows the answers to most of those questions. Other than 'should you play THC', where the answer is 'Obviously not'. Beyond that, just make a meta-call and stick with it.
Also, I think people really overrate Manriki as a mirror breaker. If they're ahead you'll never get to actually use it. If you're ahead, just wreck house with Jitte.
I would be more paranoid of Lands and their alternate ways to deal with us because we have been cutting down on Cataclysms and RIP entirely from the SB lately.
Anyways I think safe cards to run would be more Pithing Needles and perhaps a 3rd Council's Judgment in the SB if you're worried about the mirror. Orzhov Pontiff if you want to venture a splash.
Small thing, Canonist doesn't actually do anything to Aluren, all of their important creatures are artifacts. The prevailing version is the no-recruiter BUG variant, and you cannot do anything against the combo if you're relying on canonist.
Not going to address each question individually but I hope to address most of them generally.
Containment Priest is always a 2-of for me. Especially potent with Cavern of Souls to avoid a Chancellor of the Annex trigger. Against S&S keep in mind that flashing in response to a Sneak Attack activation still allows them to activate the ability in response to you, effectively getting the creature in anyways.
Manriki-Gusari is pretty narrow. Great against mirror and other blade decks, but if I were to sleeve up D&T this weekend I'd probably put in an additional Council's Judgment instead. Handles equipment like Manriki-Gusari, but also handles True-Name Nemesis and Leovold, Emissary of Trest which are both on the rise and I would expect to see a lot of, especially the latter in Aluren and Shardless.
For Aluren, I don't know the best way to fight the combo, but I do know that outside of discard they have zero ways to handle a Mirran Crusader. Suit him up with equipment and steal the game. Prelate targets would be 2 for Decay, 4 for Aluren, and 1 for Brainstorm/Ponder/Thoughtseize depending on what they're running. Revoker should be set on Cavern Harpy.
Cavern Harpy isn't an artifact. Only half the combo is. They'll still be able to flash in Agent and both Strixes, but not loop them.
Yup, I have literally no idea what 75 I am submitting. I keep switching back and forth. I'm with Iatee in that there aren't easy answers here.
1. There's been a bit more hype about S&T in the last few weeks; and Reanimator continues to be on an upswing -> (SB) 2 Containment Priests??
I would probably run more dedicated graveyard hate than normal of some nature. Containment Priest is probably a great card to have for the weekend, though it might be a good time to run at least one extra piece of faster interactions.
2. D&T is going to be popular with new toys; additionally have seen some movement from Stoneblade decks -> (SB) Manriki Gusari??
I don't think Manriki Gusari is worth a slot. I always advocate SoWaP as a card that has overlap with Miracles. This might be a weekend where I have to trim SoWaP though to make room for an extra piece of gravehate.
3. In a GP I want broad answers and decks have begun leaning on TNN again -> 2? Council's Judgement
I always run two of these. The flexability is grand.
4. Is Cataclysm needed in SB? Is Gideon enough vs. Miracles; do I want Cata for other match-ups? i.e. lands or 12post or Shardless?
No.
Yes, Gideon is alternative pressure with great overlap elsewhere.
Cataclysm has utility elsewhere, but it is never going to win you the game on its own. It's really RiP or Mirran Crusader type cards that do the heavy lifting there, and I don't think it is necessary.
5. THC. I was running 3 in the main; then 2 in the main; now 0. I have no idea even after playing with her if I like her or not.
I'm on zero. I will not be returning to THC without acceleration at this time.
6. Another deck purported to pop (and the cost is way down if you use Recruiter of the Guard) is Aluren; Revoker(mb) and Canonist(sb) seem like the best options. Is there anything else to include?
I like at least a singleton Mirran Crusader to fight the midrange portion of that deck.
7. Has anyone figured out a way yet to have a good/positive match-up vs. Eldrazi?
Path helps, but the matchup is still going to be difficult.
8. Palace Jailer? Super expensive Banisher Priest? or great card for drawing cards and repeatable (i.e. flickerable) removal?
High upside, slight risk card. Won't always be amazing, but when it is, it will be a game winner. I'm leaning towards not having it currently, though it has been good in testing.
9. Last, (the big one); do I include a small splash for either Magus and/or Pontiff. In a world of Shardless, Eldrazi, Lands,etc... Magus seems very appealing. And against Elves; TNNs and even the mirror.. Pontiff feels like he do good work.
I'm leaning towards no personally, but it is very justifiable. I think that there tends to be so much Burn on day one of a GP that I don't want to make Price of Progress better against me.
Sanctum Prelate turned Lands into a matchup I'd take over basically every other t1 deck.
I will agree with this: Sticking Prelate on 2 really cramps their deck so hard it's impossible for them to get out of...short of a crop_roto/gamble to try to combo off.
Show and Tell definitely isn't a problem. You are already quite favored against SnT decks, the dangerous builds are the ones with Omniscience and Cunning Wish where Containment Priest doesn't do anything significant. Sanctum Prelate is more important here.
And against BR Reanimate, you still have solid tools in Swords to Plowshares and Karakas, possibly also Path to Exile in the SB. Banisher Priest is very strong here, too. A fast Sire of Insanity is preboard the biggest threat, but in some situations Mother of Runes can stall it all day long and you can easily come back into the game.
However, 1st Turn explosiveness with Chancellor revealed is usually lights out and feels like playing against Belcher, but hopefully these people won't make it that far.
Manriki is very good in the mirrormatch, but then again I think it's a narrow SB card and also no guarantee to win the mirror efficiently. It often all boils down to who connects first with Jitte.2. D&T is going to be popular with new toys; additionally have seen some movement from Stoneblade decks -> (SB) Manriki Gusari??
2 is a good number, that card is versatile as hell. Good against Nemesis, can nail a planeswalker, shines in the mirror match when the board is clogged with Mother, good against Eldrazi as it can also get around Eldrazi Displacer. And the dream is to remove Omniscience after dropping Canonist to it.3. In a GP I want broad answers and decks have begun leaning on TNN again -> 2? Council's Judgement
It's not needed, but it certainly is the greater bomb against Miracles compared to Gideon. Pretty much all of the Miracle experts (like Tomas Vlcek and Angelo Cadei) said, if you resolve Cataclysm at any point, you win. I only found it mediocre against Mentor heavy builds. If they can keep a land, a Top and a Mentorpost-Catalysm, they are usually good to go.4. Is Cataclysm needed in SB? Is Gideon enough vs. Miracles; do I want Cata for other match-ups? i.e. lands or 12post or Shardless?
She's good but unnecessary. There are higher-impact cards.5. THC. I was running 3 in the main; then 2 in the main; now 0. I have no idea even after playing with her if I like her or not.
There is absolutely no reason to be afraid of Aluren. I have not played the matchup extensively, but these one or two times, I won. But more so because Aluren itself is pretty hard to resolve against DnT in general, so if you can out a lot of strain on their mana, you're good. And other than that there are probably tons of interaction possible with Revoker, Recruiter, Banisher Priest (possibly Leonin Relic Warder which I'd not recomment) and other shenanigans that I peobably can't really grasp right now.6. Another deck purported to pop (and the cost is way down if you use Recruiter of the Guard) is Aluren; Revoker(mb) and Canonist(sb) seem like the best options. Is there anything else to include?
I think it already is.7. Has anyone figured out a way yet to have a good/positive match-up vs. Eldrazi?
I am not convinced. It's certainly an interesting card to test against Miracles, Lands and the likes, but usually Banisher Priest is better just for curve reasons. There are also matchups where you can lose Monarch status pretty easily, especially against TNN where things start to backfire quickly.8. Palace Jailer? Super expensive Banisher Priest? or great card for drawing cards and repeatable (i.e. flickerable) removal?
The thing is that the deck itself doesn't really profit that much from such a splash. It's still soft to the usual suspects.9. Last, (the big one); do I include a small splash for either Magus and/or Pontiff. In a world of Shardless, Eldrazi, Lands,etc... Magus seems very appealing. And against Elves; TNNs and even the mirror.. Pontiff feels like he do good work.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I am still not giant on the Lands match up now that they have tireless tracker and random molten vortex or seismic assault, plus tabernacle is still a very real card and then ghost quarter has become quite the annoying substitute for port. I will take Miracles and Shardless all day every day though.
What has you off Palace Jailer at the moment? Are you running Banisher Priest instead, either MD or SB?
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