gp louisville came and went for me, ended up 6-3, 10-5. only lost one round to a play mistake, well technically 2 if you count jamming a show and tell into sneak and show doing a miracles impression, that did not end so well for me.
the list, was pretty much the same as the last one i posted that i won an IQ with, except i uped the show and tell to 4, i just felt like getting titan into play as soon as possible was the best thing the deck has going. just had to shave a card or 2 here and there to fit them, i think i cut 1 worldbreaker and one map
my board unfortunately was the exact same, i forgot to bring my sideboard box and due to some snow in dallas we missed our flight out so we flew to chicago and drove from there to louisville, arringing at 5am. Was a bit to tired to think of what i would change. in hindsight, i would cut the thragtusks for 2 surgicals, i never did get to resolve on against delver. but everything else i was happy with. there were a few occasions that i was short colorless mana to cast warping wail, but i would have lost those games anyway. only thing i could think of was adding an ancient tomb or 2 but felt the lifeloss was to great.
was a bit sad i didnt get to crush any miracles all weekend.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Island
1 [IA] forest
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Khalni Garden
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [AVR] cavern of souls
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger
1 [OGW] Worldbreaker
1 [5DN] trinket mage
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [5E] Brainstorm
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of tawnos
4 [US] Show and Tell
1 [SoK] Pithing Needle
2 [ODY] moment's peace
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [5DN] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [M13] Thragtusk
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan grip
SB: 1 [FS] Venser, shaper savant
W 1-0 death and taxes
W 2-0 infect
W 3-0 grixis delver
L 3-1 sneak and show(oopsies)
W 4-1 mono red painter
W 5-1 sneak and show
L 5-2 grixis delver
W 6-2 UB reanimator
L 6-3 4c delver
W 7-3 no show
L 7-4 UB reanimator
W 8-4 Eldrazi
L 8-5 bug delver
W 9-5 burn
W 10-5 burn
Planar Bridge is odd. You already have Eye of Ugin and SnT. It would fit into a MUD deck pretty well in my opinion.
yeah I don't think it would be good on second glance but it was the only other thing from the set that seemed reasonableish.
I have to say your wins are pretty impressive. You went up against some pretty nasty combo decks and won. Any chance you could expand on those wins a little? choices and such?Originally Posted by caw_86
About reasonable cards in the new set: There is still Trophy Mage.
I'm surprised nobody has tried that yet - many UG lists play Trinket Mage, and i think Trophy Mage could be better.
Possible bullets for Trophy Mage i consider at the moment:
Ensnaring Bridge
Trinisphere
Crucible of Worlds
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
The first 4 have all seen play in different 12post lists at some point and are strong cards against a variety of decks. Staff of Domination is usually just played in MUD for the combo with Metalworker, but with a lot of mana i could see this do some work (this would be my value bullet if i draw a Trophy Mage lategame and/or don't need any of the other options).
I will try some variation of my usual list with this, but i think this could work just as good in a traditional UG list. The only real question is if this is fast enough, but i think this card really deserves at least some testing.
It is odd, particularly for UG builds with lots of spells, but I think it could do good work in more permanent-based mono-G versions. Being able to tutor into play Ugin (the killer app, I think), lands, Titans, and combo hate pieces all at instant speed is serious business. It also lets you deploy Primeval Titan without double-green on board and, assuming it resolves, gives you more play against countermagic.
So I think the effect is definitely worth something to the deck; whether it's worth 6+8 mana and the turn investment is unclear. I'm hoping to get a copy at the prerelease to fool around with.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
I see what you mean. Mono Green would be the best shell for it. Problem I still have with it is if you are able to produce 14 mana, you should be tutoring via Eye of Ugin and casting your Eldrazi very shortly after. I almost rather run a candelabra or a 2nd Eye of Ugin instead of this if going into a green build (money aside). Also keep in mind it is only an ETB so no trigger on your Eldrazi Titans, that hurts at this point of game. GsZ is your toolbox for cheating in Prime Time and with the right SB is much more versatile. The only real benefit I see here is that it is able to tutor up a planeswalker. So if you have Ugin or Karn in your build, It's essentially a 2nd/3rd one of those cards in my eyes.
I've been thinking about how exciting it is to goldfish mono-green Post and make a turn four Primeval Titan into a turn five Emrakul. This got me wondering if there could be a build of the deck to ensure this happens as often as possible. Sure, it will probably be less versatile of a deck and perhaps even weaker to combo, but what would this "all-in" type of deck look like?
As for speed, play as many Candelabra of Tawnos as you can afford. Green Sun's Zenith as virtual 5-8 Primeval Titan also allows a little bit of toolbox action: 1 Dryad Arbor and 1 Oracle of Mul Daya for early tutoring, and additional one-ofs like Gaddock Teeg and Reclamation Sage in the sideboard.
What about 4 Exploration as a (hopefully) turn-one play? In a build like this, could this provide some amazing acceleration? How many lands in total would the deck want to run to take advantage of it?
Add 2-4 Expedition Map to always have lands to play... the singleton Oracle of Mul Daya helps here, too. What about Sylvan Library (instead of Sensei's Divining Top) to dig a little deeper? 4 Crop Rotation and 3-4 Warping Wail, as these cards are all-stars in this deck. Add 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. 2-3 Pithing Needle as an answer to Wasteland (and other things).
I'm terrible at brewing decks, so I wonder what advice people would have on this type of an approach to Titan Post. The deck starts shaping up something like this:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest
2 Savannah
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
3 Expedition Map
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail
If you wanted to go that type of route, why not run Green Sun's and Show and Tell? This give you a massive amount of cheaty power to get your creatures on deck as quick as possible. You can then also run Boseiju, who Shelters All to ensure you are able to cast since your counter magic matches will leave you stuck until you can pull something off. I like the idea of Sylvan Library so you can draw cards. Everytime I try to go more combo route, the problem is your run out of gas very easily or have no decent way to filter things you dont need at the time. Running Explore seemed to help, additional land drop and worked well if you just draw into a basic land or something of the sort. Also, I feel if you want to do the whole "All in combo" Run dark depths. It's just one more option to get the ball rolling much quicker.
Overall doesn't feel super strong. You would really need to fine tune it if you want it to work well. You're essentially going into like an Omnitell build or something of the sort.
So if you really want the fastest primeval titan into emrakul you should probably be running explore. Because it cantrips it does increase you land count and opens up possibility of turn 3 Primeval titan into turn 4 Emrakul. Expedition map is slow as far as speed goes, but if you want in on the exploration plan I would max out on map and ancient stirrings to keep the lands and threats coming. To edit your list as a straight make mana, drop a dude deck and nothing in between I would go
In:
2 Vesuva
1 Candelabra
1 Expidition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
Out:
2 Savannah
4 Warping Wail
2 Sylvan Library
I also likely want a second Ugin and no Dryad Arbor, unless you have it for Natural Order which is what I did a while back when I was on 12 Post.
I would prefer to stay away from blue, as I don't own a single Tropical Island. Boseiju, who Shelters All is a great suggestion, and mykatdied also suggests Explore. If I were to add the Dark Depths combo, would it include a single copy and a single copy of Thespian's Stage, or multiples or one or both?
If I get rid of Sylvan Library and Dryad Arbor, then there is no reason to keep fetch lands, correct? They could just become Forests? What about adding a single Khalni Garden as protection for Primeval Titan from Liliana of the Veil? Unless I keep the Savannah to give white mana for sideboard options...
Finally, in a deck like this, how would Explore and Into the North compare / contrast one another? They both give you an "extra" land drop, although Into the North would only be for a Forest or Dark Depths, whereas Explore could be for a Locus land if you have it / draw it. Into the North doesn't cantrip in the exact same way, but the both cost the same at the same sorcery speed.
Grand Prix San Jose and Las Vegas are right around the corner! I am taking along my Bant Turbo Post list with slight changes. Took out a Vesuva to run Thespian's Stage. Still interacts with Song of the Dryad, opens my sideboard to Dark Depths, Doesn't ETB tapped.
I wanted to reach out to you all for some constructive choices on a better Sideboard. The build gears towards heavier battlefield creature control since I feel those types are decks are heavy in the meta. It is light on the non creature removal utilizing only Song of the Dryads and Ulamog. Here is the deck for reference:
Mainboard
4x Brainstorm
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
4x Crop Rotation
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Pithing Needle
1x Plains
4x Primeval Titan
1x Savannah
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Show and Tell
2x Song of the Dryads
2x Swords to Plowshares
3x Terminus
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Vesuva
2x Windswept Heath
Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Krosan Grip
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Platinum Emperion
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Trinisphere
Bant Turbo Post by Skriger @ TappedOut.net
Please let me know what you think. Keep in mind this is Grand Prix Sideboard. Needs to stay fairly broad and cover as many major decks being played.
Here is my thoughts on it so far.
- Bojuka Bog. Obvious use against graveyard happy decks.
- Dark Depths. Great speed against decks with very little removal or none at all.
- Krosan Grip. Great against Omniscience builds and any other targets it can feed on.
- Leyline of Sanctity. Burn and Combo decks.
- Pithing Needle, Because it's Pithing Needle. wasteland / rishadan port decks are a pain.
- Platinum Emperion. Same idea as Dark Depths, Great against Eldrazi and Burn.
- Surgical Extraction. Great tool against a lot of builds.
- Trinisphere. Great against low mana base decks, combo, aggro.
If you still are considering CG I would consult with theboozecube. He is the most proficient with the build in this forum. I noticed you didnt have ancient stirrings in your CG list, that is the most powerful card in CG.
Tusk Up
Fetches will always help with chunky draws. If you are running Sensei's Divining Top, I would keep them.
Differences are pretty big with Explore and Into the North. Explore is just straight up cantrip, Into the North is not. So say you draw into a creature you are able to cast via the extra land drop, that is much better value than an automatic land drop. The bigger benefit of Into the north is if you do run Dark Depths, its another card outside of Crop rotation that will help get that card into action quicker. Really depends on the build the route of all those cards. They all have very crucial abilities to make the deck work in a specific way. Try building up a list that you see will really work and as Hymmyou pointed out, boozecube has been a pretty big contributor of the non blue builds.
The feedback here, as always, is fantastic. Thanks, everyone.
And now for the ridiculous question of the night: If budget were not an issue and you could run four Candelabra of Tawnos in a mono-green/green-colorless build, would you?
Or is the "right" number something other than four?
EDITED TO ADD a new decklist:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
7 Forest
2 Savannah (this is for white sideboard options)
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Explore
Last edited by cwcomposer; 01-20-2017 at 01:23 PM.
I'm not an expert for this type of build, so take my advise with caution, but these are my thoughts on your sideboard and on other options:
1. Bojuka Bog: I would really try to play this maindeck - just one slot, but with your 4 Crop Rotations really strong against many matchups. Otherwise keep it in the board.
2. Depths: I like Depths, most other players don't. Maybe just in the board is good for your build.
3. Krosan Grip: Clearly included, without other enchantment removal i think 3 is the right number. (And i agree not to play RecSage - with GSZ i always play it, but without it, Grip is better, the body on RecSage doesn't matter.)
4. Leyline of Sanctity: I played this for a long time, but i cut it months ago. I would play other combo hate instead. The problem with Leyline:
It's great against Storm, but Storm is probably at an all time low right now, and i wouldn't really expect as much as half a year ago. It's useless against SnT decks, and those are the biggest combo deck right now. Elves is also big, and it's useless there too. It works against discard from Reanimator, but not even sure if i would bring it in there. Against Aluren it looks good, but not sure how much Aluren you can actually expect (last GP was much less than anybody expected), and against the traditional Aluren decks with Recruiter it's actually not good (because they play usually one RecSage, and they can get this midcombo without any problem).
It's great against Burn, but i don't know how much to expect (cheap deck, but i don't think it's very good right now). It's not good against BGx decks (solid in your opening hand, but a dead draw otherwise - i don't know if it's even correct to board it in against Shardless).
I would probably play Ethersworn Canonist instead: Also great against Storm (just a little easier to kill for them). Against SnT it's good if they play Omni (and those are the really bad matchups, SnT without Omni is usually beatable) - putting it in on SnT can give you time to untap to kill Omni, and having it already in play means your own Emrakul or Titan on their SnT usually beats their Omni. It's good against Elves, it's playable against Reanimator, it slows down Aluren, it's also ok against Burn. It's even playable against Infect.
5. Needle: I don't like Needle, but it's probably fine.
6. Platinum Emperion: Too slow in my opinion. In the matchups where you want it you will often not get the time to cast it. I really don't like 8 mana sideboard cards against decks that kill you on Turn 3 or at most Turn 4. But maybe it's fine with SnT, this is where my lack of experience with this build matters.
7. Surgical: Clearly fine, just not sure if 2 or 3 is the right number.
8. Trinisphere: Also fine, again not sure about the right number.
The cards i would think about are Ethersworn Canonist and maybe Meddling Mage.
Also, it's kinda surprising you aren't playing any counterspells in the board, Flusterstorm and Swan Song would be the usual options. Not sure if i like that or not.
I used to run Trickbind and Swan Song but recently took them out since the meta was funky around my area and they ended up sort of dead weight. I agree with Canonist and Meddling Mage for the side. I feel Mage is a great card since it can shut down a lot of decks. Platinum Emperion just feels like a great piece against Eldrazi Stompy which is a tough match if they really start going nuts. I could replace the leylines with Meddling Mage?
Having Dark Depths or Bojuka Bog in the main really messes with the mana base of this deck. Typically I can remove non essential lands post board so it's not a huge problem but to have always in main just makes this deck entirely too clunky to run.
When I played Dark Depths I used only one copy of each. It's not the primary plan of the deck (nor should it be) and you have enough land-search effects to find them reliably. I always encourage people to play a one-of Khalni Garden because it provides a body that doesn't effectively Stone Rain you when it dies.
I have tried Explore and Into the North at various times and have been unimpressed with both. Explore has its moments of greatness but usually requires some luck and setup to get real value from. You need two lands to cast it, another in hand as the extra, and another land in hand or on top of the deck for the following turn (otherwise you might as well have just played the third land naturally on T3 - Explore would not have really done much). If you keep 7 on the play this sequence requires an Explore and four lands in the top 8 cards of the deck, which doesn't happen as often as I'd like. I replaced my Explores with Swords to Plowshares and won't look back.
Into the North is fine if you have maindeck Dark Depths. Also, don't underestimate its use for getting the second green source for Primeval Titan. Again, though, with Warping Wail now existing I think there are better cards to play.
1) I question the utility of Emperion against Burn. I've had too many games lost to Smash to Smithereens to comfortably play it - maybe your experience is different?
2) Maindeck Bojuka Bog is so strong against matchups that are hard to win Game 1 otherwise that I would try to find space for it there.
3) I've found three Leylines to strike the best balance between having one in the opening hand and not having it clog up draws later. Two looks like too few to me and you have Brainstorms, so I would find space for maindeck Bog and replace it with a third Leyline.
Edit: It occurs to me now that a random Bog is probably a much bigger issue in Bant than in my Gw version, so I defer to your judgment regarding the stability of the mana base. I stand by my suggestion for a third Leyline though.
As a point of curiosity, how do you like Trinisphere against Delver? I used to not bring it in against them and haven't had many testing opportunities recently to try it out.
There are theboozecube's CG lists and then there are Kassari-style G(w) lists which differ in the key aspect of playing Primeval Titan, whereas CG goes straight to Eldrazi and has much less need for green mana. Ancient Stirrings shines in CG because there are more hits, but does less work in G(w) especially if you also play GSZ. I played Stirrings in a Primeval Titan build for a while and although it was good, it also makes you much more vulnerable to Chalice and Counterbalance which is a significant strike against the card.
In a CG list in theboozecube's style I would run 4 Candelabras, because they supercharge Maze of Iths and let you make big plays with fewer Cloudposts. In Primeval Titan builds I am happy with 1 and would play at most 2 (I only own 1 and almost always play it, especially nowadays due to new Thalia). You generally don't play Mazes, the Titans take up slots, the Titans provide ramp, and the Titans can be the big play on their own.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
I feel Trinisphere is a great card against Delver. It really makes them choose their control over creatures and slows them down immensely. It can also ruin Burn abilities as well. I was testing it again today boarded them in and they held the ground quite well for me to get Dark depths up and running one match also got a Prime Time beat down rolling as well.
I'm looking for a deck that has a strong BUG Control matchup in anticipation of Fatal Push really becoming a thing, and I think Cloudpost might be that deck.
Has anyone looked into those matchups? I'm thinking particularly about the different BUG control w/ Fatal Push lists mentioned on the Brainstorm Show.
Last edited by Lormador; 01-24-2017 at 02:11 AM.
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