Yeah!, now we are talking!Originally Posted by Chatto
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I've been playing Gitrog too and although I find him amazing, I'm pretty sure that you only draw one card if more than one land hit the yard at the same time, look carefully at the wording.
Wow. Good to know. I assumed since they were happening one after the other they didn't technically occur at the same times. I've dredged a few times during small tournaments with Gitrog on the board and no one "stopped" me from doing that. Either way, a draw 5 is still back breaking.
You guys thinking about crop rotation, dark depths, andor Loam really should give the Dragon Fit list a try. Playset of Intuition holds everything together so well. If you replaced Dromoka and Ojutai with non-white dragons then I could see a list stretching to include Depths and Stage. Or perhaps eschew Haven and dragons for a Marit Lage entirely. Right now I'm not convinced that's an improvement however. They allow for a good game on our side even if the opp has grave hate.
Took Nyx Fit to a tournament today, lost in top 8 but did pretty well overall. Deck was sweet.
- Lost to DnT, never got going
- Beat Storm (won both sideboarded games), Spirit of the Labyrinth is awesome)
- Beat 4c Loam (Doomwake kills all his lands both games, if they don't lock us out with Chalice/Waste they just fold)
- Beat DnT (making land drops is good, Doomwake / Curse is so good against them)
- Beat DnT - same guy as round one - lots of grinding but Starfield and Doomwake overpowered him
- Lost to BUG - Games 2 and 3 he made an unanswered JTMS and FoWed every relevant spell I cast - deck might want another answer to Jace or two. Might just want to board in Leyline of Sanctity though.
Aid from the Cowl was underwhelming - I never wanted to Rector or Grove it and it wasn't impressive when it got cast. Should probably be another Nissa.
Chromanticore was okay - won some games on his own, sat in hand and probably lost me a game against BUG, when Sigarda would have been great.
Collective Brutality was excellent all day, totally should stay in even if Chromanticore gets dropped. Killed Thalias, duressed Storm cards and Forces, and killed Veteran and Rector in an emergency.
Nyx Weaver was fine, but nothing impressive. Didn't play against anyone where the Reach was any good though.
Deck could do with more answers to JTMS. Might try swapping Aid for a second Nissa VF, since hasty pressure is so good.
Congrats on the great run! Could you describe your games against Storm and how you stabilized vs. Loam if you get a chance?
Whenever I give something other than Sneak a try, I'm going to have a hard time deciding between Loam / Dragons and Nyx, they both sound like a ton of fun.
Storm - game 1 I had zero discard spells in hand and did nothing to him till he killed me on turn four. Game 2 I therapied LED (miss, saw a ritual, a couple cantrips and infernal tutor), then made Spirit of the Labyrinth on turn two. He did nothing for a few turns, I made Rector and flashbacked Therapy for Infernal finding Leyline of Sanctity. Beat him to death with SotL. Game 3 I had turn one Leyline of the Void into turn two Spirit of the Labyrinth and beat him to death while he didn't do anything.
Loam I made sure to cast Explorer first (before he made chalicd) since I could still cast Therapy into chalice if I really needed to sacrifice stuff. Game 1 Rector into Doomwake killed a pair of bobs, Deed swept up his KotR and eventually I found a Living Plane. Game two was basically the same, only I got Starfield which made his Liliana pretty bad looking. I assembled Starfield + Deed to keep him locked out for a while, found a Living Plane to Armageddon with Deed, then then beat him to death with a Chromanticore.
Hey. I played DNSolver's list in yesterdays fnm. Went 2-2 with
R1: D&T 0-2
Abysmal starting hands followed by abysmal mulligan hands (wrong/no lands). Went down to 4 twice without stuff to do.
G1 I somehow recovered, but far too late. G2 I faced a turn 3 Mirran Crusader and couldn't assemble a fast deed.
R2: Enchantress 2-1
G1 I have early decays followed by 2 deeds. Master does the beatdown.
G2 I Lost Legacy his Angel producing enchantment (1), and see 2 Elspeth and an Emrakul in his library as the remaining Win cons. I find no deed and he assembles a strong defense to win with Elspeth.
G3 Like G1.
R3: Grixis Delver with TNN 0-2
G1 back and forth. I play a Nissa into a Spell Pierce and later he overpowers me with Pyromancer Tokens and TNN. I missed Thragtusk.
G2 I had 2 Explorers on board and never got rid of them. 2 Wastelands screw me and TNN beats me to death.
R4: BR Reanimator 2-0
G1 he gets an early Iona. I got an early Karakas and discard his reanimation spells (Therapy-Explorer) and Zenith for an Ooze to victory.
G1 he gets a T2 Griselbrand with Reanimate (=only 1 Grisel activation left). I play something like 2 Explorers, 2 Therapies followed by Maelstrom Pulse -> He Grisels, is on 5. I Ooze to win again.
slightly changed SB (no Spheres):
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Lost Legacy
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Duress
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Thragtusk
Now that I have a bit of a feeling for the list, I will do some minor alterations. Btw: I hate losing to TNN, but I guess I'm not the only one ^^.
My proposition:
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Swamp
+1 Plains
+1 Savannah
Switch the threats to Sigarda and Rhino instead of Thrun and Master?
Not sure yet, but I would try to add white since I already play a Karakas :)
Hello to everybody: i've missed Magic in the last six years and now i find this new topic, great work (the only thing that confused me is the lack of Zimmerman Brug pod list in the OP, i think it's the biggest results of Nic Fit since 2014....).
Anyway, i remember in the former topic the first lists of Nyx Fit, but now i'm going to test it seriously: a question, have Heliod and Primal order been considered?
Heliod is okay, but has a few issues. He's a card advantage / value engine, but making a 2/1 or two each turn is just less impressive than Starfield in the slot. Against the kind of deck where a few 2/1s is relevant, we probably just want Doomwake Giant or Starfield. Doomwake gives us better board presence and Starfield gives us better grinding power.
Primal Order is something I should probably give a try. In particular, it's an enchantment which can be searched up and kills Planeswalkers, which is actually pretty important. It might be too risky as a clock on ourselves though - Nyx doesn't have much lifegain in the deck normally. I'm thinking about trying a red splash out, there's a lot of good R cards available - top of the list being Assemble the Legion, which is my next try at a starfield-style advantage engine which isn't graveyard dependent. Blood Moon could also be good, access to red makes Chromanticore closer to castable, and there are a few other enchantments around which are probably worth testing too.
I don'w want to play less than 2 Starfield anyway, Heliod should be in the place of Sigarda/Chromanticore (can't understand why the latter, incastable without gsz and often worse than Sigarda).
I've played Primal Order in other Nic Fit shells and i've liked it. Vs Miracle and other decks is often enough to close the game in 2/3 turns and kills pw, obviously.
About classic lists: i can't really understand Eidolon and Giant.
I mean, they both have many props, clear. But they are high cc creatures without protection and with very little impact on the board/no impact (blossom).
What makes them playable in this deck (i mean, over similar cards like CoDH for the giant) is sterling grove, that i've found fuc*ing amazing: why not 4? it's the perfect setup, tutor, the first one is often decayed... In this way i would find the ench-creatures very reasonable, probably trying to develop constellation with Weights and so on.
Otherwise, are you satisfied with these cards? I mean, for example, that Living Plane+Curse is a gg, living+giant leaves the possibility for stp (e.g Miracle) if we can't find an ench.
Splash: I'm in love with Zur's Weirding if we can consider blue: a total gg against most of Combo e Miracle/slower decks.
Chromanticore is better than Sigarda if your life total is under pressure much of the time, and he also gives us a card we can fetch with Rector that gets work done on its own rather than requiring more combo pieces (in hand / graveyard). He's got Shroud with a Sterling Grove, so a lot of the time he's just as survivable as Sigarda is. He's also a flying blocker we can recur with Starfield which is relevant against Marit Lage.
I haven't tested Primal Order, so I can't argue that one. I'll give it a try sometime.
Doomwake has protection in that he's a 4/6 for 5, which is basically immune to everything except STP (Decay/Push/Bolt/Dismember/etc), and also gets Shroud from Sterling Grove again. I'm also not sure how you can describe him as 'low impact on the board' when he kills a lot of the creatures in Legacy at the moment, and blocks those he doesn't. Being a creature also makes him significantly more castable against Thalia. Living Plane + Doomwake is also more reliable than you think, because if you sweep Miracles' lands, they can't drop a Plains and Swords Doomwake because their land has summoning sickness, so you get a turn to play an enchantment and kill their land before they can cast anything.
Eidolon is pretty vulnerable and to be honest I don't tutor for it very often, it might well get dropped for a different card advantage engine if I can find one that's good enough. I am very satisfied with Doomwake and definitely wouldn't drop it - I play Doomwake main and Curse of Death's Hold in the sideboard, because there are some matchups where Curse is completely useless but Doomwake is always at least a 4/6 beater who can apply pressure at worst.
Might give Zur's Weirding a shot. It's only good if you're ahead on the board, though, which means you'd need to have something to attack Miracles with in addition to Weirding (or a CA engine).
Sterling Grove is great against interactive decks and when you have time to durdle, but it's an awful mana sink against agressive / combo decks. A lot of the time most of your enchantments are already resilient by virtue of being noncreature permanents with >3 CMC, so you don't lose them to much anyway.
I can't see Nyx Fit working without at least one Eidolon of Blossoms. Agree with above on everything else. But landing the blossoms is similar to tracker albeit safe from abrupt decay, has to be answered or else you drawback many cards. Parallax Wave plus her is also another angle. She turns gsz here into card advantage.
Clearer now =)
What i feel after the first bounch of games is, really, the lack of Brainstorm. And i've played pod versions often without them, but here... i really miss them: high density of high cc cards, often redundant ( 4 copies of rector, 3 of grove + Sigarda/trug/chromant/eidolon/giant). Anyway, with towers we can't add another colour beside for a splash, i fear. The only possibility could be the total cut of Tower, in favour of 21 colored lands, 3 drs and 4 explorer as other 4c nic fits.
Anyway, a card that could lower the curve and give flesibility could be Eladamri's Call/Diabolic Intent: i'm trying a 2/2 split with Rector, but obviously you need other targets for it that you can't grab with gsz.
I've run 4c nic fit with 2 drs/4 vet/1 tower/20 colored lands before. It's not that bad, though both the non-GB colours were only represented on 6-8 cards, with no double colours.
I don't think Brainstorm being missing is that much of a problem really. One of the major smoothers is Collective Brutality - it's a good way of pitching excess stuff we don't want immediately, especially since we have recursion.
Multiple Rectors are basically never a problem and I'm usually happy to have them. Tower naturally makes it better, though. IMO there is very little reason to go below 4 rectors in this deck, he's just so powerful. I'd consider adding a Diabolic Intent in addition to the Rectors, but only if there's some specific combo you wanted to find reliably.
When we are already running 4 rector 4 cabal and 3 towers + veteran, couldn't Omniscence/emrakul find two slots with Diabolic Intent?
I mean, it's very nice turtling with Nyx and grove, but omniscence... you can't even discard it with Collective and then use Nyx. Same for Emrakul, if it's in your hand, discard/shuffle and go. Anyway i find difficult to think about losing when you have omniscence in play with this deck
Feel free to experiment with the deck. By all means, we could use more people playing around with it. If you feel that Omni + Emrakul could perform better then go for it and let us know how it goes. My love for Sneak Fit comes from the fact that it can win games quickly out of nowhere - if you can find similar speedy combos in other shells then heck yea.
From my experience working with the deck, the first Rector tutor is usually for something to control the board. If you haven't found a Deed in the early game then this means potentially landing Doomwake, Curse, Humility, Deed depending on what I have in hand, boardstate, etc. Typically the first tutor HAS to be something that immediately impacts the board since the builds I've played have reduced amount of removal. Doomwake, for instance, has the potential to wipe an opponent's board, keep you safe as a blocker (granted you have a Grove out), and requires a single followup card (Living Plane which is fetchable from an excess Grove) to shut out the game. Extremely versatile. Curse, Humility, P Wave can do similar effects against various opponents. Sometimes all you need to do is Deed wipe the opponents board and then present a loop with it and Starfield to win against any fair-ish matchups. Combo matchups typically have some easily sideboardable card to basically end the game on the spot. (Between Leyline Void/Sanctity and Humility). In those situations, one Rector tutor is usually enough and buys you plenty of time to land other hate.
Personally I like having a few "immediately change the game and win" cards in the deck that put you significantly ahead if they land, and definitively in a winning position with the help of another card. Deed + Starfield, Doom/Curse + Humility/LP, etc.
I have been reluctant to try out Diabolic Intent since it requires 6 mana on field to keep Rector safe from StP or a soon-to-be untapped Deathrite. Therapy is typically free (tap all 4 of your lands, cast Rector, then sac it for free), and Tower means you need 5 mana to immediately tutor something. Against any deck with white, I would not want to count on rector surviving a turn. The deck also plays less creatures than other Nic Fit variants, so Intent could get stuck in hand.
For Nyx fit decks has Daxos's Torment ever been contemplated?
A 5/5 hasty dude for 4 seems pretty reasonible.
We are already running 1-2 Nissa for the hasty effect, but it's a neat idea. I -think- it works well under Humility as well, at least if you play it after Humility. Lay down Humility, then play this guy and he becomes a 5/5 hasty flyer on that same turn since he entered last and his ability would overrule Humility's. Humility buys you a lot of time and this guy could close out a game very quickly under that effect. Glad to see it is safe from Karakas, Decay, stays safe from targeting in general with a Grove out.
It's one I've been thinking about. Mainly because it kills planeswalkers and interacts positively with Humility. The problem is, though, it's only a persistent threat if you have other enchantments in hand or ways of searching for them - but in that scenario you're probably better off getting one half of one of the combos in the deck and ending the game that way, since very few of the enchantments you could have in your hand aren't also part of one of the combos in the deck, or a way of searching for them.
Trying to find a way to make Solitary Confinement work, but I think Contamination and Energy Field are closer to the mark. There's just no way of recurring Confinement that's actually good enough. It's a pity they were so careful to make Skybind balanced, and there aren't enough good cyclers to enable Astral Slide.
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