I didn't write anything up on it. I've been on 4 color loam and haven't played Maverick much lately. 1st time back playing it and like always, it was consistent. I beat some tough matchups. I played vs sneak and show, elves, miracles, painter and tnn bug. I like the 75 i was on and the sideboard seemed great, used all 15 cards.Originally Posted by Jimbrewersbro
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/586509#online
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About Rallier, did you just naturally draw him or did you have to zenith? I was wondering if it was ever worth being zenithed over knight.
I have only played the card in non maverick decks so far, but I could see instances where you want to zenith for it over knight if the tempo from a waste is needed or if you want to return something. I just have a hard time playing it over New Thalia personally right now
Believe me, I am already sold on THC. The problem is she makes the DnT matchup miserable and my meta is filled with them. You can't just play 1 of her to be effective since she can't be tutored (I think 2 is the right number).
Most matches I naturally drew Rallier. Typically I would prefer to Zenith for a knight, but Rallier can be an amazing tempo play if you can double wasteland or something. Against removal heavy decks in particular, the ETB value of Rallier is really strong whereas sometimes your knight just eats an abrupt decay or fatal push.
Finally got around to finishing off my last league, 2-3 bad times. Don't remember the first three games (a while back) but was 2-1. The last 2 I played yesterday evening and went bad beat style.
Round 4 was a grindy match vs DnT that went to three games, in the last game a Jitte became active a turn and kinda wiped me out and made it hard to come back from. There was one game where I had 3 vial in play (on 1, 2, 3 respectively) and had minimal land after Wasteland fighting. My build runs more spells though so this came to be a bit of a burden, especially later drawing into like Batterskull.
Round 5 was BUG Delver and G1 was a blowout. I kept a semi greedy land light hand and he was able to kill everything I played and then tempo me even greater with a Lili. Game ended quick. G2 was a little longer, but I got stuck on the wrong color lands and couldn't cast a needed Pridemage to blow up a Needle on Mom to help drag the game out. I stalled a bit looking for action with Thalia blocking a huge Goyf and bouncing with Karakas, then replaying every turn (kept drawing no action). Eventually he stuck a Delver and was able to value me with DRS/Delver beats.
So far the deck seems ok still. It's been a while since I have played MTG so I probably made some wrong plays. I think I might go back to the GSZ version in favor of dropping Vial, Revoker. Revoker IS very nice G1 in some places, but I think having a more consistent tutor G1 to get our silver bullets is nicer. Knight for Wasteland, Scooze for Graveyard, Scryb Ranger for Delver/BUG, Qasali for blowing up stuff, Teeg for Combo, etc. I have never really tried Punishing Mav, but I feel with the number of DRS in the meta it's a poor choice ATM. Probably better sticking to my own DRS.
I would say that the amount of DRS being played is more of an advantage of the Punishing version. Think of this:
1) DRS never comes out of nowhere - it needs to stay 1 turn in play to become active.
2) Punishing fire kills DRS (with fire)
3) Nobody restricts you from playing DRS in Punishing Maverick - DRS taps for red just as well. PF provides you with some more food for your DRS compared to just Swords (when you need to get those last 2 HP).
4) You can often win the staring game PF vs DRS, especially if you've been lucky to get a Knight into play (activate Knight in resp, fetch Grove).
5) Exiled PF simply means you made a 1-to-1 trade with a creature or a Planeswalker.
6) Relying on DRS for graveyard hate, your opponent probably won't have more than 2 GY-hate slots in sb.
Punishing Maverick has its own disadvantages, e.g. the combo matchup, but it becomes better, not worse, in the DRS meta.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
In my experience, dropping Thalia for punishing fire is not worth it. If you wanna play punishing fire I would consider 4 color loam. I don't think there is enough disruption without Thalia. I mean if your local meta is a lot of delver and death and taxes, I would certainly play the punishing version. I just would have a hard time taking punishing Maverick to a open meta. But who knows maybe you are a lucky person that seems to always get good match ups.
Running DRS in a punishing maverick shell pushes you into 4 color territory which is not exactly where we want to be, not to mention the reduction in consistency which is what make maverick good.
I gave it a bit of thought and have to agree on Shamans. Also, even in D&T/Delver - infestated meta, I'd rather play a greedy Jund deck than Punishing Maverick.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
Dropping Thalia from the main undoubtedly worsens your G1 combo matchups, but G. Teeg, Ooze, QPM, DRS, and Knight all provide some degree of interaction against various combo decks. And while its not what you want to be doing against combo, Punishing Fire always goes upstairs.
Having played a ton of Aggro Loam, Punishing Jund, and Punishing Maverick I can confidently say that Punishing Maverick is significantly more consistent than the other two.
In regards to the influx of BUG decks, I think any Maverick variant is well-situated against them (maybe its time to dust off the old Thrun or Wilt-Leaf Liege). I'm off fair Brainstorm decks right now because Leovold is so damn annoying and back on the Maverick train.
My real question is--what creature decks are so impossible for Maverick to beat that we need to trim Thalia's for Punishing Fire?
Punishing Fire is not only better against creature decks: it kills Planeswalkers, is an alternative wincon and a finisher.
The losses though are huge: Thalia, Abrupt Decay, DRS, Persecutions, Thoughtseizes, you name it
Right now, Maverick with black is the most flexible and effective one.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
Does anyone side in thoughtseize against D&T? I feel like discarding their Aether Vial or more importantly their Batterskull would be worth it. Also curious about when to bring in Sylvan Library (thinking of putting it back in my main actually). Would you bring it in against combo decks in order to increase the chances of finding the necessary hate cards or is that stupid?
I have tested this extensively--and the answer is that Thoughtseize is ridiculous vs D&T.
it counteracts SFM, but it also allows you to "force" their Vial tricks before committing to an attack or line of play--so that you don't get blown out.
Sadly, I already side in 3 Decay, 2 Revoker, 2 Toxic Deluge, 1 Pridemage versus D&T so I never have room to side in Thoughtseize. However--it's not because it isn't strong in the matchup. Even just discarding their STP's before casting your Knights is worth it.
Thoughtseize is good in combo matchups, where you can discard a combo piece or removal for your hate in order to be fast enough to win. It is also good vs "big" decks like Nic Fit or Eldrazi, where they rely on a part of their deck to ramp and on another part to actually win with big threats.
D&T matchup is very different though. Every card is their deck (just like ours) is a fighter on its own, except maybe Mom and Vial, and we don't gain much by discarding their stuff, we'd rather play something of our own. Thoughtseize is a very bad topdeck; don't decrease the consistency (and tempo) of your deck just to have an option to discard a Jittte or a BS.
P.S. Thoughtseize also forces you to fetch non-basics turn 1, which can be sometimes a disaster vs D&T.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
What do you guys think about playing Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage in a three-colored list?
I've been running it myself with fair results but most of the decks with good results I can find online does not play it.
I think it's terrible.
As for thought seize I like spot discard against stone forge decks, but I feel like I already have trouble finding room to bring it in when I already bring in so many other cards.
There are several issues with the DD+TS combo in Maverick atm.
1) It doesn't improve our current bad matchups, e.g. combo or Miracles
2) It does take a spell slot (DD) and hurt your manabase (TS).
3) When you have a knight + scryb rotating around, you are often already winning and don't need the combo.
It can be a nice sudden-thing for a certain meta that generally can't deal with the token, but I'd play a 2-color version then.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
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