[Primer] Elves!

[dte]

The BUG lists also run Abrupt Decay. Tapping out on t2/3 for a choke feels bad when they have access to 4 answers that leave us at a tempo disadvantage.

If they still have 4 decay post SB, their SB is probably so miserable that it's fine ;)
But choke is not a game-ender against any deck. It is an ok card against a wide range of decks.

[abombdiggity]

If they still have 4 decay post SB, their SB is probably so miserable that it's fine ;)
But choke is not a game-ender against any deck. It is an ok card against a wide range of decks.

Very true. Personally, I have really been loving Nissa, Vital Force in the BUG and Miracles matchups so much that I've run a few leagues with her in the MD- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/589212#online

I think that it's significantly better vs the answers Miracles is bringing to the table and is good enough vs BUG that we don't really want something like choke that's a powerful effect but doesn't really help put additional pressure against our opponents- I think it's now taking the sb slot that choke took.

[grizzlybears]

Hi~ @abombdiggity and @dte,
thank you for your enlightening replies,
my doubt has gone now. ^_^

[Ezuri]

Current list. Trying out some toolbox creatures main deck (Leovold and silk weaver) for the meta.
Any tips?

20 Lands
2#Dryad Arbor
4#Gaea’s Cradle
1#Pendelhaven
1#Forest
2#Cavern of Souls
3#Windswept Heath
3#Wooded Foothills
1#Misty Rainforest
1#Verdant Catacombs
2#Bayou

29 creatures
3#Heritage Druid
4#Wirewood Symbiote
3#Quirion Ranger
4#Nettle Sentinel
1#Birchlore Rangers
2#Craterhoof Behemoth
4#Elvish Visionary
4#Deathrite Shaman
1#Reclamation Sage
1#Shaman of the Pack
1#Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1#Silkweaver Elite

11 Other spells
4#Green Sun’s Zenith
4#Glimpse of Nature
3#Natural Order


// sideboard
4#Abrupt Decay
1#Cabal Therapy
2#Thoughtseize
1#Pithing Needle
1#Wren’s Run Packmaster
2#Choke
2#Null Rod
2#Surgical Extraction

[blind]

MD :

+1 Birchlore -1 Nettle

SB :

-1 WRP (hello fatal Push) +1 Garruck
-2 Choke +2 Nissa
-1 Null Rod +1 Seize

It's a good decklist. :)

[afifthofjack]

Hello everyone, I have worked out a new deck list. Granted keep in mind I don't have Gaea's Cradles. I am just at the point of time where I can't afford them currently. Unfortunately, the more I play the more I wish I have them and will eventually get them. Here is the new deck list. Any feedback I would be the most thankful.

Creatures (31 in total)
3x Heritage Druid
3x Nettle Sentinel
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Deathrite Shaman
3X Quirion Ranger
2x Birchlore Rangers
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Wirewood Symbiote
2x Llanowar Elves
1x Shaman of the Pack
2x Dryad Arbor

Instant and Sorcery (12 in total)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Natural Order
4x Glimpse of Nature

Land (17 in total, with the Dryad Arbor in count 19)
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Bayou
1x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (Gaea's Cradle is what will take this spot, just for the time being I have to run with the watered down land until that happens.)
1x Pendelhaven (I see this in deck list and continue to put it in, please could I get this one explained. It doesn't save our 1/1 from lighting bolt, only reason I can think of is getting a little extra damage in.)

Sideboard (15 cards of course)
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed (for Storm or anything that cast a lot spells)
1x Gaddock Teeg (Miracles, Tron)
2x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction (Graveyard hate)
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Progenitus
1x Leyline of the Void (Reanimator, Dredge, and any other graveyard strategies)

[haganbmj]

Hello everyone, I have worked out a new deck list. Granted keep in mind I don't have Gaea's Cradles. I am just at the point of time where I can't afford them currently. Unfortunately, the more I play the more I wish I have them and will eventually get them. Here is the new deck list. Any feedback I would be the most thankful.

- I'd play Basics over Shrine of Nykthos. The card seems very difficult to net any mana out of, I don't think the modern decks even play more than one or two and they're way deeper on devotion.
- Pendelhaven is good because it improves combat (attack through deathrites and all the 2/1s, etc - block stuff), protects from small pingers (darkblast, izzet staticaster, grim lavamancer, pyroclasm etc), and allows you to extend less while still pushing damage.
- Not having cradles makes Glimpse, Natural Order, and Zenith a little worse. You've already got a second llanowar elves, but you might consider trying out a lord of some sort over one of the Natural Orders. It'd be easier to cast and would give you a bit more flexibility with smaller Zeniths. Elvish Champion or something. Could even cut back on all the Natural Orders and go deeper on that plan, play Dwynen's Elites.

Just something to consider.

[Julian23]

Just made Top8 in this month's Legacy Challenge on Magic Online.

Check out my live-commentated videos on http://itsjulian.com/march-legacy-challenge-with-elves/

[afifthofjack]

- I'd play Basic
- Pendelhaven is good because it improves combat (attack through deathrites and all the 2/1s, etc - block stuff), protects from small pingers (darkblast, izzet staticaster, grim lavamancer, pyroclasm etc), and allows you to extend less while still pushing damage.
- Not having cradles makes Glimpse, Natural Order, and Zenith a little worse. You've already got a second llanowar elves, but you might consider trying out a lord of some sort over one of the Natural Orders. It'd be easier to cast and would give you a bit more flexibility with smaller Zeniths. Elvish Champion or something. Could even cut back on all the Natural Orders and go deeper on that plan, play Dwynen's Elites.

Just something to consider.

So far the addition of the 4th Natural Order has been very good in testing. However, the shrine to nyx isn't going to make the cut. Just don't use it as I though, tapping for the devotion green ramp but don't really have enough to make it worth the deck's wild. I appreciate the awesome feedback. Thank you!

[abombdiggity]

Just made Top8 in this month's Legacy Challenge on Magic Online.

Nice job. It was a rough Top 8 for Elves for sure, my buddy won on Miracles and had to play the mirror in all three T8 matches.

Had a poor string of variance, mulling to 4 the first two matches and losing to ANT with a turn 2 Leovold on the play for my second match loss.

Wanted to get people's opinion on this hand I saw running through a league- Birchlore Rangers, Nettle Sentinel, Deathrite Shaman, Glimpse, GSZ. Game 1, Unknown opponent, on the draw, you've obviously mulled to 5, opponent kept their opening 7. Statistically, around a one in four chance to hit a land T1, and if we do, our hand allows us to actively play out our gameplan. Mull to 4 and hope for the best, or take those ~30% odds there's a land?

Edit: did the math wrong, it is not 40% to see a land off the top or with a scy.

[Julian23]

Assuming you're running the standard 20-land configuration with double Arbor, you're actually just 25% to hit a land there, assuming you don't count Cradle or Dryad Arbor as a land. If you count Arbor, then it's still just 29%.

I keep a lot of hands, but I would probably mull this.

[abombdiggity]

Assuming you're running the standard 20-land configuration with double Arbor, you're actually just 25% to hit a land there, assuming you don't count Cradle or Dryad Arbor as a land. If you count Arbor, then it's still just 29%.

I keep a lot of hands, but I would probably mull this.

Thanks, definitely did my math wrong then, it's been a while since I've done those calculations.

I would tend to agree- I did mull the hand, and lost to BUG Delver due to them doing delver things, which a mull to 4 (I also feel like the 5 card hand would have lost the match even if I did hit a land) was ill-equipped to deal with. The hand has definitely come up before, and it never really ends up well for elves either way.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

How are you all dealing with R/G lands? This match-up has been a real drag for me. Yes, Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze help, as does Surgical Extraction. But, I've lost the last 8 of 9 matches to them and was quite lucky to win the one match.

It's like fighting a spider; it attacks from multiple angles, ensnaring us at every turn. They have the (at times excruciatingly fast) Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combo that sends a flying, indestructible 20/20 tentacled avatar at us. They wreck our creature base with an ever-repeating Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows romance or a singular (easily-found) Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (in the latter case, it encumbers our mana advantage). They make our attacks useless with Glacial Chasm or slow our attacks down with Maze of Ith. And they are getting the resources they need from their library (Crop Rotation and Gamble), they are getting the resources they need from their graveyard (Life from the Loam), and they are putting lots of cards onto the battlefield (Manabond and Exploration.) Lands even has the audacity to attack our lands with Wasteland, Rishadan Port, and Ghost Quarter.

Has anyone found an effective strategy against this compelling foe?

I have not. I have found this match to be heavily against us since this deck emerged. While we have good draws against them, they typically have better draws against us. The deck is rare enough that it doesn't pay to sideboard for it. Cards like Realm Razer just aren't worth it, even though they would severely pound Lands.

[Ezuri]

MD :

+1 Birchlore -1 Nettle

SB :

-1 WRP (hello fatal Push) +1 Garruck
-2 Choke +2 Nissa
-1 Null Rod +1 Seize

It's a good decklist. :)

Thanks for the response!
Is WRP out of the question due to fatal push?
Played Garruck for a while and wasn't all that pleased to be honest.... Have yet to test Nissa

[haganbmj]

Thanks for the response!
Is WRP out of the question due to fatal push?
Played Garruck for a while and wasn't all that pleased to be honest.... Have yet to test Nissa

I'm less enthusiastic about Packmaster due to Fatal Push, but it's probably still right to play if those are your common matchups. The card is still really good and it's still easy to overload their one or two (max) Pushes. I tried cutting Packmaster and really missed having it on my Zeniths.

[jjkbb2005]

After watching Julian's videos of the Legacy Challenge I just think Leovold is too clunky without the Trop, you either need to increase the number of birchlore rangers to avoid the scenarios where he becomes trapped in your hand, (though I'm not entirely certain that's the solution) or adjust the mana base. While the card is incredibly powerful I'm still wary as to whether he still deserves a spot in NO builds.

[Ezuri]

You can GSZ him instead?

[cheerios]

I still play WRP. I'm expecting them to use push on the initial stream of creatures in play. WRP is still good since you can gsz him in the late game and he's still a good creature against miracles and punishing fire decks.

[JermStudDog]

I still play WRP. I'm expecting them to use push on the initial stream of creatures in play. WRP is still good since you can gsz him in the late game and he's still a good creature against miracles and punishing fire decks.

I too have been running WRP against the greater groupthink and have suffered exactly 0 blowouts to Fatal Push. Not saying it can't happen, but it seems very unlikely given the way the deck functions.

The card has helped me win vs Shardless, Aluren, BG Rock, and even BR Reanimator. Any time I can make even a single wolf token and champion a Visionary, the card is a huge tempo win, even if it gets blown up immediately.

That said, Miracles still sucks.

[dte]

I second this. I also continued to run WRP and I am veey satisfied with it.
Its role have never been to stay ten turns on the battlefield because it is unremovable.