I appreciate you posting this list Rock Lee. I took your list and did some slight modifications through some extensive testing. I have always enjoyed 12 post and Walking Ballista repeeked my interest in a deck like this. To get the best and most competitive testing for me, I tested online against mostly tier 1 decks. I wish I had run into some more Death and Taxes to test against. But Alas, my list and results (25-3) are below:Originally Posted by Rock Lee
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island
1 Academy Ruins
// Creatures
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 [AER] Walking Ballista
// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm
1 Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Trickbind
MATCHUPS: (The matches where its only 1-0 are one's that the opponent left after the first game.....probably rage quit).
Miracles 2-0
TNN BUG 2-1
Stoneblade TNN 2-1
TNN Sultai 2-1
Miracles 2-0
BUG Leovold 1-0
Dredge 1-0
ANT 0-2
Grixis (w/ TNN) 0-2
Lands 1-0
BR Reanimator 2-1
TNN BUG 1-0
Manaless Dredge2-1
STAX 1-0
UB Reanimator 2-1
Dredge 2-0
Burn 2-1
Miracles 2-0
BUG delver 1-0
Sneak and Show 1-0
Miracles (mentor version) 1-2
Infect 1-0
Land Destruction 2-0
Nic Fit 1-0
BR Reanimator 2-1
Leovold control 2-1
Dragon Stompy 2-1
BR Reanimator 2-0
Overall, pretty good results. Only 3 losses in 28 matches is pretty decent. I agree with some of the recent posts about Mentor. Its a problem. Walking ballista helps sometimes with Mentor, but sometimes mentor comes down pretty early. I still think its a favorable matchup, but not like it used to be. The best matchup (from my somewhat limited testing) seems to be BR reanimator. Especially post board the matchup for them is just brutal. The hardest matchup, again from my limited testing, seems to be the delver matchups, especially Grixis Delver. Turn 1 delver is rough especially backed up by counter magic. I know one of my losses was to ANT, but its seems easier to manage than Grixis Delver. Grixis Delver is definitely winnable, but tough. Quick notes:
*Academy Ruins is beast in this deck
*Don't expect to get my results day 1 (I have lots of 12 post experience)
*I agree with Rock Lee, I really like Relic in this deck (good synergies with Academy Ruins also)
*Often I will take out needles and bring in Trickbind for g2 when opponent brings in artifact removal.
It exiles itself. Am I missing something?I agree with Rock Lee, I really like Relic in this deck (good synergies with Academy Ruins also)
It's good to hear that you are still playing this deck and innovating as usual!
- Would you consider running Force of Will in the sideboard? With your heavy usage of Trinket Mage, you already have a higher blue card count than most lists, which is the biggest challenge for running Force. It is such a good general catch-all against many strategies (no wonder it is one of the flagship cards of Legacy) and it could be especially helpful to have more 0 mana answers these days in the face of BR Reanimator and those kind of shenanigans. I've been a proponent of sideboarding Force for the longest time, so that was the first thing that came to mind!
- I am very interested in how you use Ballista and how it has performed for you. I thought of the card as single target creature removal more than anything, which can double as a huge Fireball-spell win condition in the late game. Two mana to remove any 1-toughness creature, four mana to kill Delver comes to mind. I suppose I am just not convinced that it is an efficient or reliable means of removal, but I have not played it myself and could very well be wrong.
The way that it has good synergy is not getting itself back. It is getting anything else back that you need on the same turn. You activate ruins and put target artifact on top of your deck. Then activate relic to draw the card you put on top of your deck (I often find that it is for engineered explosives, but there are many things that could help RIGHT NOW). Anyway, that is the synergy I was talking about. Let's you keep your top in play also and not have to crack it to get card on top.
The initial build had Fow main, then fow side then fow removed. 12post mostly operates off of parity, and non-parity cards need to be game-changing. This isn't to say I won't run it, but if I did, it would need an enormous reason. (omni becoming meta dominant again for example)
This is the list I've been tuning with since my weekly wins:
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [AER] Walking Ballista
// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [NPH] Dismember
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 1 [AER] Walking Ballista
the 3 1-of sideboard slots are wildly variable atm.
Went undefeated 3-0 in weekly legacy with this list against Miracles, Tin Fins, Soldier aggro (similar to eldrazi aggro):
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [MMA] Thirst for Knowledge
1 [UGF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [V13] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
This build felt much stronger than my build two weeks ago. Never felt outmatched. My only game loss was to Tin fins having the nuts vs me (probe, therapy (for my crop rotate), land, dark rit, entomb, shallow grave into draw 14, lotus petal rit entomb shallow grave emrakul kill me).
Only change might be to put an EE somewhere in there.
Mr. Ivan Cane made it to the Top 4 @mkm series milan 2017!
Here is his list: http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...-eldrazi-ramp/
It's a colorless ramp list, straight forward. Seems to work^^
Different deck, has it's own thread - BigEldrazi in New & Developmental.
We also discussed simialr variations of the deck (focused on Voltaic Key + Monoliths) in the MUD thread in Established Decks. It's definitely more of a MUD strategy than a 12post strategy.
Are you planning on taking this to SCG Worcester?
absolutely. perhaps with 1-2 tweaks. but overall the build is very strong. went 2-1 today in another weekly event. my loss being to accidentally siding out glacial chasm vs miracles and getting it with a titan only to not have it and die to mentor beats in 2 turns. The deck did great though. I failed it.
Rock what do you think about running crucible somewhere in the list so that you can pitch lands to thirst for knowledge and not care. (maybe conflicting with relic)
Was thinking move the bridges to the side and replace them with crucibles since you can still crop rotate into glacial chasm main board.
Last edited by Cyborg; 03-24-2017 at 01:36 AM.
After a middling performance at a local win-a-mox and scraping into prizes at Eternal Extravaganza 6 I am looking at moving from G/W Zenith Post to a U/G build. Now, what has bothered me in the past about U/G is that shuffling away junk after Brainstorm is awkward due to the low number of truly incidental shuffle effects (and shuffle effects in general). For example, sometimes you have to Crop Rotate/crack Map for the shuffle when the otherwise correct play would be to leave the Crop Rotation/Map unused.
On the other hand, Oracle of Mul Daya has been very good to me in GW and I've wanted to play Courser of Kruphix for the similar effect and lifegain but haven't found something I'm happy to cut for it. Also, GSZ is a shuffle effect that Brainstorm actually improves because you can finally do something useful with Dryad Arbors that you have drawn. So I propose a U/G build that incorporates Brainstorm and Show and Tell (the other reason I want to play blue) with a Zenith + Courser/Oracle plan. Such a deck would rely less on Brainstorm + shuffle because you can put back lands then play them off the top, turning Brainstorm into Ancestral Recall.
Sketch of a decklist:
1 New Emrakul, Old Emrakul, New Ulamog
2 Ugin
4 Primeval Titan
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Dryad Arbor
(14 bombs & support creatures)
4 Crop Rotation, Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm
3 GSZ, Show and Tell
2 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra
(21 support spells)
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Tropical Island, Misty Rainforest
2 Vesuva, Cavern of Souls, Forest
1 Karakas, Island, Glacial Chasm, Thespian's Stage, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Tabernacle
(29 lands)
You might notice that this list has 64 cards, which brings me to my question for all of you. Keeping the concept intact (Brainstorm and S&T with Zenith + Oracle/Courser), what would you cut and why? This list has everything I want to be doing and I need fresh eyes to see what I might be blind to.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
@k_omega
I would cut veteran explorer, 1 cavern of souls, 1 snt, and the thespian stage.
Explorer doesn't really do what it's supposed to do without some sort of sacrifice outlet. Extra cavern of souls don't really do a lot when you have maps also the only thing that you ever really name on the cavern is going to be giant in this list anyways. 2 show and tells although it feels weird keeps you from having a bunch of them clogging up your hand while still giving the deck the ability to get through mana denial. And thespian stage feels lost without dark depths to keep it company you may as well run more vesuvas if you want to do that.
fiddle around with it with your friends in play testing you can do a bunch of different stuff with this deck.
cheers.
edit: if you wanna run exploders i've been fiddling around with a bg list
probably a little janky tho
2x Ancient Stirrings (ROE)
1x Bayou (LEA)
1x Bojuka Bog (WWK)
4x Cabal Therapy (JUD)
4x Cloudpost (MRD)
4x Crop Rotation (ULG)
1x Dryad Arbor (FUT)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (ROE)
4x Expedition Map (ZEN)
1x Exploration (USG)
1x Eye of Ugin (WWK)
6x Forest (LEA)
1x Glacial Chasm (ICE)
4x Glimmerpost (SOM)
4x Green Sun's Zenith (MBS)
1x Karakas (LEG)
1x Oracle of Mul Daya (ZEN)
4x Primeval Titan (M11)
2x Sensei's Divining Top (CHK)
1x Swamp (LEA)
1x Sylvan Library (LEG)
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (BFZ)
4x Verdant Catacombs (ZEN)
2x Vesuva (TSP)
4x Veteran Explorer (WTH)
When it comes to adding black, please give Toxic Deluge a try. I'm still on BUG Post with Abrupt Decay and Toxic Deluge. Decay is sweet, as it handles a lot of problems. But Deluge is a BOMB. Usually I have to pay 2 life, sometimes 3 to clean the board (and trade like 1:3).
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I remain happy with my u/g build for the upcoming open. Been messing around with a g/w renegade rallier/ eldrazi displacer list in the meantime. Will post a list in the next day.
I've been testing a GW build on MTGO with a 1x Renegade Rallier in preparation for the next win-a-mox. Even as a one-of, it adds a new dimension the deck didn't have before.
Definitely curious to share ideas. :-)
How are you guys playing against the new builds of the lands deck that have 4 mainboard Ghost Quarter now? I've been easily beating lands in the past when the only card to worry about was wasteland and the marit lage, but with their new angle it's hard to tell how to pick your battles. Tireless trackers are also a real nuisance g2 and 3. I'm using a build that plays Trickbind mainboard instead of Repeal if that matters.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
I (with GW) play against it much the same: In the early game grind down their graveyard and snag their Loams with Bojuka Bog + Vesuva, developing my own land base in whatever way is convenient, not necessarily going for quick Cloudposts. Once they're in topdeck mode then resolve any threat. If they present more Ghost Quarters than Wastelands in the early turns I fetch nonbasics so that Ghost Quarter can turn them into basics that are invulnerable to subsequent Wastelands, which helps keep my land count higher. Post-board I keep 2 Ugins to answer Tireless Trackers, in addition to the 3 maindeck StP. I also prefer to put Needles on Thespian's Stage, since naming Wasteland doesn't shut down all the land destruction anyway.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
I understand the meta dependent builds of any deck but can we get some GW lists? last one I saw came from japan and it was sweet playing a one of planar bridge. Whats everyone doing these days with G/W?!
Very well. Here's what I played at EE6 (went 5-3):
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Forest
3 Green fetches
2 Vesuva, Savannah, Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas, Thespian's Stage, Khalni Garden, Eye of Ugin, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle
4 Primeval Titan
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Veteran Explorer, Reclamation Sage, Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Ulamog
2 Ugin
4 Top, Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith, Swords to Plowshares
2 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle, Candelabra
Sideboard:
3 Leyline of Sanctity, Trinisphere
2 Krosan Grip, Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle
1 Dawnstrider, Dragonlord Dromoka, Engineered Explosives
I cut Warping Wail because it never seemed to do enough and I replaced the two copies with a third StP and a Pithing Needle, which I used to not run in the maindeck but I wanted more G1 action against Sneak Attack. Needle is also pretty helpful against the 4c control lists that are beginning to show up. Now that the meta has shifted away from Eldrazi I think the Zenith + Veteran Explorer/Rec Sage package could be cut - I boarded out Explorer a lot and also kept it in games where I should not have. If I were to cut them I would replace them with 4 Ancient Stirrings and a Moment's Peace, and get rid of the weird green creatures in the sideboard for a Krosan Grip and a second Moment's Peace.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
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