The problems I've had with MD Revoker is that it dies to Fiery Confluence AoE @ 1, naming stuff to multiple revokers in g1 can be difficult guesswork since we don't run spot discard or other effects to see what our opponent is playing (T1 moon and opponent plays U fetchlands as mountains and passes gives us almost 0 information), and it races badly. I'd prefer 0-1 main with extras coming in from sb once I know what to name.Originally Posted by AEMarling
Stormbreath Dragon can be good in D&T and Miracles heavy meta where prot white is relevant. In other metas where prot white is not as relevant, 5 mana is more than 4 mana, making Thunderbreak Regent a great alternative.
On the play, you can keep a t2 lock piece hand if the hand is otherwise super good and you feel like the opponent is not playing T1 combo. T1 basic mountain go can make the opponent place you on burn, thinking you are holding back a Lightning Bolt. But this does give the opponent a chance to t1 fetch a basic.
Has anyone played with Avaricious dragon? I like the extra carddraw, but I'm not sure if it is worth the slot over Regent. I'm testing it out tonight, so hopefully I will get the answer tomorrow.
What's your guys opinion on just dropping the 2 sideboard cards Ashen Rider for the show and tell matchup?
I would rather just sure up some of my other matchups.
Just so you have an idea my sideboard is the following.
4 Leyline of the void
4 sulfur elemental
3 sudden shock
2 ensnaring bridge
2 Ashen Rider
I'm considering cutting the 2 Ashen Rider and adding 1 ensnaring bridge and 1 phyrexian revoker.
on paper it looks good if you can empty your hand but probably get screwed by a single removal eot...Has anyone played with Avaricious dragon? I like the extra carddraw, but I'm not sure if it is worth the slot over Regent. I'm testing it out tonight, so hopefully I will get the answer tomorrow.
(you have to cast fiery confluence no matter what if you draw it for example)
the matchup is anyways horrible even if you play 2 riders... if your meta has a lot show and tell you should play something else sadly... just imagine you play like 8 sb cards vs show and tell but you will lose g1 most of the time... g2 and g3 get better but if your opp is smart he will not cast show and tell into your solutions without backup... soo can you afford 8 sb slots to have a shot g2 and g3?What's your guys opinion on just dropping the 2 sideboard cards Ashen Rider for the show and tell matchup?
I would rather just sure up some of my other matchups.
Just so you have an idea my sideboard is the following.
4 Leyline of the void
4 sulfur elemental
3 sudden shock
2 ensnaring bridge
2 Ashen Rider
I'm considering cutting the 2 Ashen Rider and adding 1 ensnaring bridge and 1 phyrexian revoker.
ye one of the 2 riders can steal games once in a while and in a big tourney like +100 players i would play "something" vs show and tell in my sb but else ill just ignore it and hope to dodge the matchup...
I went from 3 Chandra up to 4 Chandra since the last time I played you with Painter. She is a bomb, and hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge is great. So I can tell you first hand that it is a legitimate strategy. Against DnT though, Prelate is usually on 4 vs. you guys, so Chandra and FC may be unreliable if they put you on the Japanese list. I am currently playing 3 Sulfur Elemental and 2 Pyrokinesis in my SB and are doing tremendous work. Sudden Shock is also great since it gets around Mom. I think Big Red needs 5-7 cards dedicated in the SB vs. DnT. Ensnaring Bridge + Rabblemaster works surprisingly well when you are ready to unleash the hoard.I got to play at EE6 this weekend. The first half of the day was excellent, then I completely fell apart in the afternoon ending 4-4-0.
Based on my pairings, I should have gone 7-1-0 because my opponents were 3 Miracles, 3 BUG (2 Shardless, 1 Delver), 1 4C Delver, and 1 Sneak and Show.
This was the first event I've played with 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance, previously I've only used 2. Chandra was a huge printing for us. She's the real deal and this deck will likely warp around her in the future. There were several instances where I was behind, resolved a Chandra, and ended up winning.
My build ran 4 Sin Prodder, 4 Fiery Confluence, and 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Most of the recent lists posted to TCDecks have used this shell, so I figured they were on to something.
Despite my performance, the day was fun. I got to meet a few Source members as well as 3 of the top Legacy players from the east coast.
Moving forward, I believe Ensnaring Bridge deserves consideration as a staple in the sideboard. I find battles against Tarmogoyf and Stoneforge Mystic very difficult to win, and the decks playing those cards have trouble killing a planeswalker without combat damage. I'll have to put my brewing pants on and see what I come up with, but I'm always interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.
If you want SB cards which are useful vs Sneaky Show as well as other MUs:
- Pyroblast counters SnT, FoW, TNN, Counterbalance, Jace TMS, Brainstorm and other blue cantrips, etc.
- Phyrexian Revoker gets to name Sneak Attack, SDT, Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, Liliana of the Veil, Goblin Charbelcher, LED, etc.
- Ensnaring Bridge is similar to Ashen Rider but you can actually cast it in other MUs as well
- Stingscourger is a niche option, especially if you are running MD Moggcatcher
What's your guys opinion on playing 3 Pyrokinesis in the sideboard over Sudden Shock ?
So I was originally playing Sudden Shock and found the card to be too slow vs burn and D&T.
I know your 2 for 1 yourself with Pyrokinesis, but you don't need to leave up mana to play it.
Am I wrong here? I don't see Pyrokinesis played at all really.
Worse against Monastery Mentor and Counterbalance, you need to be careful vs BUG Daze/Pierce, typically better against the rest of the field.
Versus D&T I want to bring a mix of both in because Sudden Shock kills an active Mother of Runes. But then again, Sulfur Elemental is better than Sudden Shock in that MU.
This is the list I tested yesterday against BUG-Still:
11 Mountain
4 Tomb
4 City
4 Prodder
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Rabblemaster
2 Regent
4 Chandra
4 Confluence
4 Moon
4 Mox
4 Chalice
3 Trini
SB:
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Bridge
1 Boil
1 Crumble to dust
1 Rolling Earthquake
2 Revoker
4 LotV
The MU felt horrible. I lost every game preboard (played 3 games) and only managed to win 2 games after boarding (out of 10). Resolving a moon on T1 was crucial in both winning games. But every other time it went like this: T1 DRS with a basic swamp, T2 Decay your moon effect, T3 push your threat, T4 Standstill, T5 and following turns just drop lands and then resolve Jace and counter everything I play. I blame it on variance :)
Some conclusions:
Regent: never saw him, so don't know if it's good. I'm seriously thinking in replacing him with Revokers MD, but unfortunately then your Confluences are worse.
Prodder: whenever I played him, he got to swing once and dealt an average of 3 damage over several draws. To say the least, I'm not overly in love with the little dude, but hey, maybe sunday it will prove me wrong?
this is true but you also have to consider that bridge just stalls and you still have to finish the game before they draw their solution...Ensnaring Bridge is similar to Ashen Rider but you can actually cast it in other MUs as well
so if your list or strat had something like this... t1 shock drs, t2 chandra or thunderbreak, t3 chandra or thunderbreak do you think he would have won the same amount of games?The MU felt horrible. I lost every game preboard (played 3 games) and only managed to win 2 games after boarding (out of 10). Resolving a moon on T1 was crucial in both winning games. But every other time it went like this: T1 DRS with a basic swamp, T2 Decay your moon effect, T3 push your threat, T4 Standstill, T5 and following turns just drop lands and then resolve Jace and counter everything I play. I blame it on variance :)
anyways how did you sb or which hands did you keep and do you bring in sulfur vs counter heavy control?
Well, bug decks can beat us just because of the line you described, t1 fetch basic into deathrite shaman. Overall i think we are favored though, because if we are on the play they basically need a force of will or risk to lose on the spot, if we are on the draw they still need to have either force of will or deathrite. I mean, if they always have deathrite + counterspell we usually lose (not always because we can still win a normal game of magic with chandra and friends), but they need to have those cards and sometimes they have to mulligan to find them.
I'm glad that this deck is picking up in popularity, i just hope we don't become too popular or everyone will start playing basic lands.
Given the importance of a turn-one lockpiece, I added a Lotus Petal. Believe it's better than other options, such as Crystal Vein (would be the 20th land), or Elvish Spirit Guide. When I have Bridge in play, I want to see more lands, so perhaps the 20th one is a consideration.
Against BUG Delver all I want is Ensnaring Bridge. Don't think racing their curve is reasonable option. Locking them out with Blood Moon is of course the A plan. I like Fiery Confluence in many spots but I find myself siding it out against Delver. It feels almost uncastable, compared to Pyrokinesis. Currently am playing 2 FC maindeck, along with 1 Rolling Earthquake, 1 Ensnaring Bridge. Would like to play more Bridges but I worry it's not proactive enough against Miracles.
What's your 75 looking like
Played this at Mythic today. Went 4-0-2 in Swiss (W: 4C Delver, W: Miracles, W: UB Landstill, W: Sneak Fit, ID, ID) and won my quarterfinals match against Elves. I played the same list I had played sometime ago (December?):
10 Mountains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
Sideboard
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sudden Shock
Deck felt IN...sane. Even games that were variance heavy, I didn't feel out of control at any point.
The dragons didn't feel amazing however. Thunderbreak Regent is just the best creature at its cost (maybe Pia and Kiran could be better) but Stormbreath Dragon was friends with Chrome Mox all day. Based on what people are doing online, the intelligent change to try is probably -2 Stormbreath Dragon, -1 Thunderbreak Regent, +1 Fiery Confluence, +2 Pia and Kiran.
It's possible my sideboard is slightly off. Sudden Shock and Umezawa's Jitte never did much.
Also, online 3 Trinisphere is fine. On paper, I would have likely lost because of it. This is a very big consideration to anyone transitioning from MTGO to paper.
Well done! So you're saying 3 Trinis is a must in the board?
Also, do Chrome Mox and/or Spirit Guides ever get sided out?
Re: Dragons, I've been running 2 Koth in the place of Stormbreath. Gives another wincon while hiding behind Bridge.
Trinisphere never came up for me though 3 is probably the right number in a unknown or big meta.
Usually I find I board out threats that don't work before boarding out other things. I'll try to write out my logic for a couple match ups.
Boarding out mana is tough since it is what allows us to be explosive.
I'd like to try Pia and Kiran because they can throw Bridges at problems.
I don't like Koth. I have played him many times before but he always disappoints me. He's bad on offense because he gets out scaled or chumped, and he's bad on defense because he doesn't protect himself or advance our board. His ultimate ends the game but two turns is hard to justify for a card that doesn't impact the board. If Miracles was a worse match up, I'd have a different opinion but that's not the case.
How does this deck beat Infect? Seems miserable. Just got steamrolled by it in a GPT.
Their nut draw doesn't beat our nut draw. We got moons and chalice and 3 ball turn one. Their nutdraw involves turn zero force our lock piece turn one threat we can't immediately deal with, turn two alpha ftw. All we have to do is land at least one lock piece before the end of turn two and maintain pressure. I've also won by going t1 rabblemaster t2 rabblemaster. Try to get the player to think they need to play the control in the match. Either we lose out of the blue, and that happens, or we apply pressure every turn til they run out of gas. Their deck is relatively threat light
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Julian Knab mentions in his latest article of the MKMseries of a R/B Dragon Stompy list he vs'd using Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast. I think it was piloted by Jiri Tuma. Sounds real interesting. Would anyone know where to find a list?
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