So you play like 2 Choke, 2 Orb?
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Correct. It wasn't on mtgtop8.com yet but found it on mtggoldfish.com
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/602843#online
Rallier has a lot of really interesting applications and doesn't require us to savage our mana base, which can happen with knight, allowing us to hit larger GSZ numbers more consistently and to also abuse Canopy/Wasteland/Pridemage or to rebuy anything that gets sent to the yard(which is odd against miracles).
He would also play well with any looting effects i.e. Mask of memory off of stoneforge or potential Smugglers Copter action.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Vs. Miracles
It was the first time I actually resolved Garruck vs Miracles, I knew he was good on paper but wow, if they don't have an answer it's just game over.
Surgical extraction is great, depending on what your board looks like, surgical swords or terminus, and you can really cripple them. Bonus points for surgicalling when they snap back the swords or when the miracle trigger goes on the stack.
Overall though I'm just really enjoying playing the deck, it's always a challenge, and has so many lines to consider, hard to get bored!
What is it about Garruk that Miracles can't beat, just that he generates 2/2's every turn? Something stupid like Words of Wilding could work too, plus it can't be attacked by Snapcaster or Clique and you can't lose the game to Jace ultimate. Combine it with Sylvan Library for extra salt. Killable by Wear/Tear of course.
The only way Miracles can interact with planeswalkers is on the stack, other than with Council's Judgment (if they run it) or just killing you. Garruk also doesn't cost you your draw step so you can continue applying pressure elsewhere or stock up for when they eventually answer him.
Or they just let it resolve, cast an end-step Vendilion Clique (or Entreat), then kill Garruk in the air on their turn and leave you with a four-mana 2/2 token.
This deck does take the right sequencing, you don't jam a garruk or choke into a bunch of open mana. You have to strategize and pick the best spots to play your spells to beat miracles. Force them to interact with what you are trying to do until you finally run them out of answers, then they get desperate to find the answer and once they find it you have the cards saved in your hand to hopefully finish the game.
There's indeed literally nothing we can do to lock them out of the game since the printing of Council's Judgement and Kozilek's Return. But if their hand is not amazing, Garruk can wreck them quite hard (and keep in mind that Clique is generally sided out vs Maverick - this is the moment we side our Garruk(s) in, Clique is a card meant to assist vs combo) - and if there's a "X=3+" Entreat incoming, we have practically already lost unless we have a setup mom/bw sword+knight lethal.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
All this talk about Garruk has me wondering: is he the best PW we've got against Miracles? Other decks? Trying to decide on my 75 for SCG Worcester next week.
I have gone back and forth between Garruk and Nahiri (and no PW in the 75). I've always liked the ability to return an equipment from the GY to play, an effect that seems more relevant these days overall with the number of BUG decks running 4x abrupt decay or 4c control decks with K-command. I also like that Nahiri can plus and then survive a subsequent attack from something like a TNN. I do like Garruk's ability to randomly kill a DRS, though.
Has anyone tested the new Nissa in any matchups?
Honestly, the factor that has tipped the balance in my choice recently has been the fact that Nahiri has only been printed in Commander and my Maverick deck is otherwise all foiled out where applicable
I'm currently on garruk which i have not yet been able to draw against miracles, but I tested kaya for a while and the games where she came in to play were a cakewalk afterwards. I switched back because theoretically garruk is better and has more utility across match-ups. Nahiri and Nissa could both be interesting cards to test, but not a huge fan of the cmc. I know nic-fit has had success with nissa, but they also ramp much quicker.All this talk about Garruk has me wondering: is he the best PW we've got against Miracles? Other decks? Trying to decide on my 75 for SCG Worcester next week.
I have gone back and forth between Garruk and Nahiri (and no PW in the 75). I've always liked the ability to return an equipment from the GY to play, an effect that seems more relevant these days overall with the number of BUG decks running 4x abrupt decay or 4c control decks with K-command. I also like that Nahiri can plus and then survive a subsequent attack from something like a TNN. I do like Garruk's ability to randomly kill a DRS, though.
Has anyone tested the new Nissa in any matchups?
Honestly, the factor that has tipped the balance in my choice recently has been the fact that Nahiri has only been printed in Commander and my Maverick deck is otherwise all foiled out where applicable
Against Miracles, we want combat planeswalkers - and 2/2 generator is pretty sweet. What makes him so much better than others is the removal ability, which makes him useful in a wide variety of matchups, including infect. On his flipped side, he is very useful again, generating ideal Tarmogoyf blockers and tutoring us any creatures we need. Never used his Overrun ulti, but I'm sure that it has won games too. There's just no other combat planeswalker that generates 2/2s and would be a removal slot too for 4 mana.All this talk about Garruk has me wondering: is he the best PW we've got against Miracles? Other decks? Trying to decide on my 75 for SCG Worcester next week.
I have gone back and forth between Garruk and Nahiri (and no PW in the 75). I've always liked the ability to return an equipment from the GY to play, an effect that seems more relevant these days overall with the number of BUG decks running 4x abrupt decay or 4c control decks with K-command. I also like that Nahiri can plus and then survive a subsequent attack from something like a TNN. I do like Garruk's ability to randomly kill a DRS, though.
Has anyone tested the new Nissa in any matchups?
Honestly, the factor that has tipped the balance in my choice recently has been the fact that Nahiri has only been printed in Commander and my Maverick deck is otherwise all foiled out where applicable
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
I have used Nissa a little bit, and yes 5 is high, but her abilities are all really nice.
Untapping a cradle is ridiculous if you have something to do with the mana, other lands make great attacker/blockers
Cards back is nice
The ultimate is bonkers with a knight in play.
Great for really grindy games, not so good for anything requiring speed or stabilising a board.
Only played a few games with her though, so grain of salt, I've needed the sideboard slots for other things since then, but would definitely give her another shot.
Play garruk, it's flip abilities are all good as well. I have used the overrun ability multiple times and it just seems to win me games. Searching for creatures also helps win games. I don't think we would want nissa over garruk because we need garruk to kill things as well. I bring it in vs delver and am happy to have another answer to kill delver.
I might be too excited about new things, but could prowling serpopard have a place in the deck, at least against miracles? You still can't over commit but it seems like a nice tool.
Just so you know - Miracles usually side out cbalances vs us. Why would you ever Zenith for it instead of a Knight?
Secondly, most of our threats that we really want to resolve (Zenith for Teeg, Choke, Garruk) are non-creature. Vs Miracles, you want as many "hard" slots as possible in sb, which have to be answered on the spot.
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
I agree. I want to like it, but I think this card is a trap. It doesn't help us against Terminus or provide any value when it ETBs.
Planeswalkers are good against miracle. I tried out many of them and I found out that the best planeswalker to tun are Garruk Relentless and Sorin, lord of Innistrad. The problem of miracle, now, is that they have implemented a new card advantave engine: predict. And it's become really difficult to find a spot when they are out of answers. Chains of mephistopheles are a non-bo with sylvan library. Maybe splash with blue and put a couple of Leovold? Has anyone tried it? Even Khaya ghost assassin in side could be a solution, but is slow and is useless with all the other MU (I tested her a lot)
I think, Choke is better in Maverick than Chains. If they don't have blue mana available, they can't draw as well ;)
As for Predict, it becomes rather clunky without Top. Pack your Needles, and you are good to go!
To make a prairie, it takes a clover and one bee. One clover, a bee, and revery...
Maverick doesn't really have a plan to beat Miracles and Terminus, true or false?
Miracles is what killed Maverick originally, what changed?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
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