Having to deal with grunt is a new problem I don't see UGR overcoming easily. Before that card was printed I was using 4x Loaming shaman 2-3x stifle as my board strategy (against UGW). But now....FTK is probably still your best bet overall.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.Originally Posted by Krieger
While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
I suppose the best build to deal with a card like that for now is probably one of Wastedlife's variants of ThreshGro. 4c has good removal if your open enough for a 4th color for Confidant, Ghastly Demise, and Duress in the SB. 3c ThreshGro with 11 Burn cards can also deal with it easily, as your not burning every creature out, except for the fatty fliers, as it's just reach. Jotun Grunt can easily be an exception to this rule. The only variants I know cant do it at this moment is SARCASTO's version he used to Top 8 the GP Philly, and the Hatfield version which nobody plays anymore because White has better removal and better Sideboard options.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Actually, against UGW, your best bet is Control Magic. Together with FTK, I say you have the edge against UGW boarding Grunts, since your sideboard strategy trumps theirs.
I don't think this is true. While Swords is stronger when comparing it directly to Lightning Bolt, UGR has *more* removal spells, which double as additional reach. Against anything that isn't pro-red or has a toughness of 4 or higher, it doesn't matter if you cast Bolt or Swords. Actually, Bolt is slightly better in this case since your opponent doesn't gain life.
I also think that the sideboarding options like Pyroclasm, FTK and REB are vastly underrated. There is also Ancient Grudge against Affinity and Angel Stompy.
?
Predict is a 2for1. With 16 manipulation spells in my version, you almost always draw 2.
Do you mean Predict or Dragonauts with "the card"?
I don't get what exactly you want to say with this paragraph (no offense).
That's why you end your cantrip chain with Portent. Incidentally, this is also the correct play if you're digging for Burn, as discussed a few pages ago.
I don't get why you're thinking Dragonauts are so awful. I'm not saying Fledgling is bad, but his casting cost is really hard, especially when there are Wastelands involved.
Often, you Predict at opponents eot step, untap, play a combination of cantrips and burn, counter removal if there is any, and proceed to swing for a massive amount of damage.
Example: Serum Visions, Brainstorm, Bolt, attack, counter removal with FoW - that's 12 damage total.
Quote by bongo:
Example: Serum Visions, Brainstorm, Bolt, attack, counter removal with FoW - that's 12 damage total.
do you always want to brainstorm on your turn? bolt on your turn? it the turn you just described wasn't lethal, than you basically just opened yourself up anything the opponent has to throw at you. you're basically giving up the control element. you're tapped out, have no more mana/cantrips/counters in hand..then what? dragon allows you to swing for 5-9 (you don't have to use up all your red sources) AND still leave mana open so you can respond to the opponents goblin piledriver with a brainstorm followed by a bolt or a counter. I guess it just depends on if you're trying to go all out aggro. thats what dragnoughts seems to be doing.
@Bongo: I do not think Dragonauts are awful now. Debates are there for a reason ya know.
I believe Dragon is still better because he can break the ground war and he is a bit harder to deal with, and you dont have to leave youself to anything stupid the turn after you play him. But I will test Dragonauts, and I will get back to you with some results.
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"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Why not Mind Harness?
Early one morning while making the round,
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
I went right home and I went to bed,
I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.
Because Mind Harness can't take Jotun Grunt. Stealing Serendib Efreets and Exalted Angels also comes in handy. Also, sometimes you want to keep the creature for more than a few turns (which then costs about the same amount of mana as Control Magic). Rarely do you want to take control of a creature in the first 3 turns, so Control Magic is sufficient.
Nice idea though.
You can play Mind Harness more easily in the mid-late game than Control Magic, with the ability to also use it in the early game. Granted it can't steal Grunt or Angel, but I'm not sure the huge cost difference isn't worth it. Someone should probably test it, at any rate.
Early one morning while making the round,
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
I went right home and I went to bed,
I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.
I tested it a bit in Faerie Stompy and found that I liked the more expensive, but broader solution better (in FS, Binding Grasp, in Thresh Control Magic). As a general rule in sideboards, broader, slighlty crappier cards are generally better than their more specific but less boarded cousins (see Crypt vs. Grunt).
Control Magic just has too many matchups where it is great (Reanimator, Affinity, AS, Fish) where Mind Harness is complete crap.
(Off-topic side question)
When I used to play this splash over the white one, and ran 8 burn spells (bolt and jet), I remember occasionally having problems with not having enough blue cards for FoW. Have any of you had problems with this?
I do understand that replacing magma jet with fire/ice would solve this, but I'm not really willing to lose the power of burn+scry.
This deck needs 25-26 Blue Cards in order to play properly. I doubt it's Magma Jet's fault, as it can ensure you card quality. Ask anyone who plays this deck a lot in this thread, they run Magma Jet.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
I was running 25 blue cards, but again, I had issues quite a few times. It really made me want to find a blue replacement for dragon, but I doubt that's the way to go. Dragon has been just too awesome for me.
The only viable replacements for Fledgling Dragon are Wee Dragonauts, Serendib Efreet, Sea Drake, and FtK. Those are all perfectly viable, and are really good. If you want to run Winter Orbs in the SB, run Sea Drakes. If you want something evasive, fast, and cheap, run Serendib Efreet.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
I played this deck in a tournament yesterday and I wen't 3-1 only loosing to the rock because I called wooded foothills (he plays 4 of them) instead of Pernicious Deed (yea I know it was stupid...I usually call deed, but I wanted to slow him down to win the early game) big mistake...but I beat affinity (hard match-up) soldiarity (a really good player) and I got a stupid bye first round...this is what I played
4 wooded foothills
1 flooded strand
1 poluted delta
1 forest
1 mountain
1 island
4 tropical island
4 volcanic island
2 fledgling dragon
4 mongoose
4 wearbear
4 mental note
4 accumulated knowledge
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 counterspell
4 lightning bolt
4 fire/ice
3 pithing needle
sb:
2 control magic
3 red elemental blast
3 loaming shaman
3 pyroclasm
3 krosan grip
1 counterspell
It's a little different from the builds we've been discussing. I tried the version with magma jets and there were too many times early game where I had 2 or more 2cc spells, and I was like CRAP thats too much mana right now. its nice to have 1cc spells the first couple of turns so you can play multiple spells or to better develope your early game. It was wierd but 17 mana seemed like too much yesterday! I kept hitting land and I kept siding out a forest. I forgot the FTK's in the sb and i'm sure they would have helped me out. and I left out winter orb as a meta call (a lot of affinity lately for some reason)...mental note with AK is pretty sweet. gives me thresh and lets me draw more cards. I think I want to cut the needles for stifles or for 1 more daze, 1 more counterspell and something else...
Your list is terrible...
oh wait... there are mental notes in there... you should thank the guy who gave you that advice... also you should thank him because he let you use his volcanic islands...
Also don't run Magma Jet if you're not running Predict
Decks that run AK without Intuition make me sad...
LT...
Luke, keep running Magma Jets. Fire // Ice draws you shit, and Magma Jet makes your draws gold. Predicts are good, but I think it's because I'm more of a player who plays decks from the east coast. Magma Jet is slow, so you may go back to Fire // Ice.
@Luke, drop AK. Your making yourself more vaunerable to Tormod's Crypt. Mental Note is good versus Solidarity. Also, did you play against Josh or Jeremy for the Solidarity match? Also, wtf isnt Serum Visions in there? It's friggin' Turbo Xerox, that cantrip is important. You not only draw business spells, but you set-up your mana base for the next turn. It also kills off dead draws. Luke, this deck is about Card Quality, run it, if you know the history of this deck, and the reason why I run 12 cantrips, you'll understand the Turbo Xerox philosophy. Dont cut Needles, it gives you a decent edge versus decks like Affinity and Faerie Stompy which is rampant in the meta. Also, a list you should run, which I showed you a thousand times. PM for the list, or just talk to me on Wednesday, Wastedlife won a Mox tournament, and top 8ed a Lotus Tournament.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
IF you want a cheap answer to jotun grunt I suggest Lightning Dart
1R
Instant
deal one damage to a creature, if its blue/white, deal four.
This is also exellent against FS.
Ok, I'm just about ready to drop dragon. Who's with me?
In all seriousness, I want to try something with this deck. I've realized that more often than not I brainstorm/predict dragon away, or don't cast him because a) I don't need another beater, and b)I want counter mana up.
Most of the games I lose with this deck are due to being unable to handle a big play by an opponent. Now, counters are obviously the answer to this. But that's just the problem: If I dont have counters in hand, or don't have the mana for them, I can just scoop to worship, solitary confinement, etc.
When I played the white splash I actually had room for a maindeck echoing truth for such scenarios. This deck, on the other hand, is much more tight. The bounce doesn't fit in any slot except...dragon's. Now, I'm not proposing that we replace our flying beatstick with echoing truth. Instead, I want to ask a question: can anyone thing of a card that could go into that 2-of slot that could allow us to handle random permaments that slip through the counter wall? How about on a creature, so that the beats can continue?
All I've come up with is trygon predator and repeal as candidates, and I'm unhappy with both. You can go ahead and call me crazy for trying to bastardize the deck like this, but I simply see a weakness and I want to solve it. Ideas?
Last edited by Solpugid; 12-15-2006 at 06:53 PM.
I like Repeal.... but I dont like Trygon Predator in this deck unless your meta is infested with Faerie Stompy, Angel Stompy, and Stax. If you want to answer them early, just run more cantrips and counters.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Well its actually the purely reactive answers that annoy me, so more counters doesn't solve that. But, I don't think this is such a big deal. In my search to replace dragon, however, I did stumble across a possible candidate: eternal witness. The double -G cost and small body at first turned me off the idea. But double green is much easier than double red due to werebear. Plus, when it comes into play I not only have a 2/1, I also have a force of will/bolt/brainstorm/predict/fetchland/mongoose from my grave. Its versatility in giving me back what I need makes it kind of appealing. I'll test it, and I'm pretty sure I'll be unsatisfied, but I think it's worth a try.
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