[Primer] Elves!

[resum]

Awesome. I'll watch them tonight.

Could you explain a bit about why you made the tweaks to the deck for this event? Specifically, why the Progenitus on the sideboard (you haven't used one in a while I believe) and moving the Nissa to the sideboard and the Ooze main.

BTW, you inspired me to finally take the plunge and play elves. I took down a 31-person tournament yesterday playing elves for the first time!

Thanks!

watch the first video ;).

[Julian23]

Went 13-2 in Leagues today with this list I drew up to be reasonable vs all that midrange stuff going on in the format right now. I'm a big fan of Jitte in Elves, but in this one, it almost felt lackluster. Kinda like a card that was too much midrange value in a deck already focussed on eactly that. Easiest "fix" would be to swap one Abrupt Decay into the main, opening up a SB slot, which is always super cool.

Matchups:

Big Eldrazi: 2-1 WIN
RB Reanimator: 2-1 WIN
Shardless BUG: 2-1 WIN
Aluren: 1-2 LOSS
Sneak Show: 2-1 WIN

Sneak Show: 2-1 WIN
Miracles: 2-1 WIN
Canadian Threshold: 2-0 WIN
Manaless Dredge: 2-0 WIN
UR Delver: 2-1 WIN

Czech Pile: 2-0 WIN
Infect: 0-2 LOSS
Big Red: 2-0 WIN
Collected Company Hatebears Naya Zoo: 2-1 WIN
Sneak Show: 2-0 WIN

Game 2 versus Big Red was insane. Opponent was on the play, had this:
T1: Chalice @1
T2: Sneak Attack => Griselbrand
T3: Chalice@2 + Chandra, Torch of Defiance (I destroy SA on my turn 3)
T4: Through the Breach Griselbrand
...and then I still won without ever removing the Chalices. Crazy game! Here's [="http://itsjulian.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Opp.png"]the final turn[/URL].

/Edit:

Awesome. I'll watch them tonight.

Could you explain a bit about why you made the tweaks to the deck for this event? Specifically, why the Progenitus on the sideboard (you haven't used one in a while I believe) and moving the Nissa to the sideboard and the Ooze main.

BTW, you inspired me to finally take the plunge and play elves. I took down a 31-person tournament yesterday playing elves for the first time!

Thanks!

I'm explaining my reasoning in the round 1 video. It's because of the meta I predicted based on participants. Didn't really work out well for me ;-)

Also, good job taking down that tournament!

[Emurian]

@ Julian, Question, have you ever put 2+ [multiple] abrupt decays in the mainboard while keeping the rest of the list ''classic'' and tested it?

-Saves me time testing it myself if you can verify your findings.-

The reason why I ask this is because Abrupt decay tends to be the card I board in most. It is rarely a dead card in a matchup [aside combo decks] that said, moving some AD to the main would free up some slots in our SB. I have been tinkering with this idea for ages but never pulled the trigger.

[Doneval]

I'm explaining my reasoning in the round 1 video. It's because of the meta I predicted based on participants. Didn't really work out well for me ;-)

I just got around to it. You said that you chose the Progenitus package because you expected lots of D&T, 4c Loam, and Eldrazi. What's the common thread to those decks that makes Progenitus better? Is it just lack of countermagic? I get that helps with Natural Order, but Progenitus? Is that against decks with lots of removal so you can cast NO with just one creature and have it be worth it?

Very interesting the Chaos Elves version you're playing now. I take it that Chaos Elves has a better game against Miracles and other blue decks?

[Flutschi]

Crazy list you got there but as im swiss i can't go without order.

Sorry!

But all jokes aside, how do you guys sideboard?
I did wrote down some sideboard plans from julian for example and he goes all NO out against BUGish delver lists, but what if its 4c Delver? Sometimes i just feel like "wow, now i want me to draw some NO.." but then i boarded them out.

Im fairly new to Elves, love playing it, love studing it, did made 20.th place in paris for the european championship but only with the help of all the other streamers out there.. didnt really think about why they do what they do and just copied it :D

[resum]

Went 13-2 in Leagues today with this list I drew up to be reasonable vs all that midrange stuff going on in the format right now. I'm a big fan of Jitte in Elves, but in this one, it almost felt lackluster. Kinda like a card that was too much midrange value in a deck already focussed on eactly that. Easiest "fix" would be to swap one Abrupt Decay into the main, opening up a SB slot, which is always super cool.

How many times did you have colored mana issues? I feel like I'd want another birchlore with the leovold main.

[Julian23]

Guys, you should not onldy blindly copy what you see me doing, but also listen to what I say. When I tried going 4 NO vs BUG I mentioned several times that this is not what I can recommend doing, but instead was something I wanted to try out. I didn't like it very much.

@Emurian: NO is good vs decks with Chalice and no counterspells, since it's an easy way to pretty much win the game with very little ressources.

@Doneval: Chaos Elves is better vs pretty much all blue decks except Merfolk. I have a list about the advantages/disadvantages in my Chaos Elves primer on my website.

@Flutschi: If you only ever look at the times you wanted NO but didn't have it and thus conclude that you don't want to side it out, that's confirmation bias. If you want to keep it in, do so. It's not like I'm the final authority on any of this.

@resum: barely ever. I was considering the 2nd Birchlore, but Llanowar Elves is just so crazy good in this deck, I always want it on turn1 :-O

[Ezuri]

I play one leovold main deck lately: has been helping me out even though he usually gets removed in a turn of two (but replaces himself with the card draw).

I don't play tropical main deck and only have one birch lore. Still no mana problems with DRS, 2x Cavern and I usually GSZ him.

[Flutschi]

No no im not saying this is final, im just saying that i learn with copying others and still wondering why you do what you do ^^

So, how do you know how to board? experiance? did you make some kind of list? or just playing like there is no tomorrow?

[resum]

@resum: barely ever. I was considering the 2nd Birchlore, but Llanowar Elves is just so crazy good in this deck, I always want it on turn1 :-O

I've definitely found myself wanting more turn 1 accel sometimes. But perhaps over the Jitte to enable a few more explosive draws preboard.

On another note, I've noticed when watching miracles streamers, there are a good number of them who have started siding out CB against us. Has it gotten to the point where decay isn't worth bringing in unless they also have mentor to smash? Or do we need to be wary of CB no matter what?

[Shagstaman]

...What's the common thread to those decks that makes Progenitus better? Is it just lack of countermagic? I get that helps with Natural Order, but Progenitus? Is that against decks with lots of removal so you can cast NO with just one creature and have it be worth it?

the logic behind progenitus is twofold:
1. some decks literally can't beat a turn 3 progenitus but could beat a turn 3 hoof for not lethal (DnT, bg/x decks) This just allows you to fight on an axis they may not be prepared for
2. great against removal heavy decks (p.fire decks, the new grixis control, etc) since you only need one creature in play to make your NO still win the game

I am still on the progenitus plan; but it seems I am kinda alone on this...maybe it's time for me to get with the prgram (but it wins me a LOT of games..)

[Shagstaman]

On another note, I've noticed when watching miracles streamers, there are a good number of them who have started siding out CB against us. Has it gotten to the point where decay isn't worth bringing in unless they also have mentor to smash? Or do we need to be wary of CB no matter what?

if they sb out CB, I like our chances even with some "dead" cards in our deck (never dead--they still hit cliques, angels, snaps, tops with draw on the stack, and blood moon)

[Shagstaman]

So, how do you know how to board? experiance? did you make some kind of list? or just playing like there is no tomorrow?

I know this was directed at Julian, but my best advice is to a. know your enemy and what matters in the matchup and b. be fluid when sideboarding.

I often bring in 7-8 cards that "could be good" then take out the same number of cards which I feel are the least impactful, some of which may be the exact same sb cards I just put in.

For example, vs the new 4-color control decks-- I'd side in 4 decay, 1 cabal therapy, 1 progenitus, 1 thoughtseize, and sylvan library... then when I go through my deck I may determine that the 4th decay is worse than cutting another dude...and not find room for the thoughtseize... so my final board would be -2 heritage, -1 rec sage, -1 q.ranger, -1 nettle, -1 hoof and +3 decay, +1 cabal, +1 prog, +1 library. The idea is to know what effects are the best and go toward those...it takes some experience and knowledge of other peoples sb plans, but this skill is invaluable.

but if you're looking for a TL:DR sb guide, they are out there--just google it or ask someone on reddit (I think this is bad, but I understand if you are still new to the deck)

[Flutschi]

I know this was directed at Julian, but my best advice is to a. know your enemy and what matters in the matchup and b. be fluid when sideboarding.

I often bring in 7-8 cards that "could be good" then take out the same number of cards which I feel are the least impactful, some of which may be the exact same sb cards I just put in.

For example, vs the new 4-color control decks-- I'd side in 4 decay, 1 cabal therapy, 1 progenitus, 1 thoughtseize, and sylvan library... then when I go through my deck I may determine that the 4th decay is worse than cutting another dude...and not find room for the thoughtseize... so my final board would be -2 heritage, -1 rec sage, -1 q.ranger, -1 nettle, -1 hoof and +3 decay, +1 cabal, +1 prog, +1 library. The idea is to know what effects are the best and go toward those...it takes some experience and knowledge of other peoples sb plans, but this skill is invaluable.

but if you're looking for a TL:DR sb guide, they are out there--just google it or ask someone on reddit (I think this is bad, but I understand if you are still new to the deck)

Thanks for the input. it was not directed to julian btw. i just want to get some input..

[grizzlybears]

Thanks for the input. it was not directed to julian btw. i just want to get some input..

To get some hint of SB,
you can refer page 329 of this thread.

Hope you will like it :)

[cheerios]

Would you guys recommend going 4 NO in a field full of chalice decks? My meta is full of eldrazi, big eldrazi, lands, and aggro loam. I always stayed at 3 cause I don't really like the NO package based from my experience. I used to run progenitus but it sucks to draw him always.

[Diogo37]

BUG Elves with Leovold, Coiling Oracle and New Nissa?

I think New Nissa is gas.

[Lemnear]

Cardselection, cardadvantage and killcondition? Sign me up

[AznSeal]

BUG elves sound good. Coiling oracle + elvish visionary = tons of cards

[Shagstaman]

Yea that nissa might be legit. Obv everyone likes the 5 mana nissa vs miracles and such, but this pwalker seems to synergize more with our deck. Will be fun to test (althought she may end up like most new cards...).