[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[TopGun]

Thanks a lot Jan. That's exactly what I was looking for. Cunning wish is so bad because of pate I'm guessing? Is this match usually in your favor or landstill's?

Thanks again,
-TG

[J.V.]

Thanks a lot Jan. That's exactly what I was looking for. Cunning wish is so bad because of pate I'm guessing? Is this match usually in your favor or landstill's?

Thanks again,
-TG

I would say it is about 55/45 landstills favor, but tight play and a little luck is really all you need to come out on top in the matchup.

[Rood]

Congrats to Bane and Matt for representing Top 8 in the Library tournament. A shame I could not attend but I had already made commitments elsewhere. And Jan keep this up and you will get over the 9th place hump! =]

[HammafistRoob]

I think Hail Storm is way to mana intensive, I just splashed Red for Pyroclasm since I noticed the rise of Aggro in the current NE metagame.

[Srovex]

Ok, I have been testing/goofing around with the green splash version at the first page and I have few guestions for you Dreadstill pilots:

1) With starting hand of: Counterbalance, polluted delta, island, stifle, mishra's factory, landstill and trinket mage. Would you lead with Counterbalance -lock, quick Dreadnough or landstill? Lets say you are on play and opponent starts game with Flooded strand. Would you change tactic if he had mulliganed? What if you have figured out he's playing combo (but don't know what deck)?

2) Some times I seriously feel I'm lacking beats. In my opinion spell snare slot is the weakest in my testing, if this slot is changed into some creature what would you pick?
My answer: in greensplash build it's obviously Tarmogoyf, but I have also considered Epochrasite for various reasons: 1) it's 2-drop(like tarmo) so it fits curve nicely and gives another 2cc for counterbalance (something Spell Snare won't do). 2) Fights out attrition wars better than tarmogoyf. I have considered him as SB against rock and pox type decks (especially rock -type decks are giving me some nasty beating with pernicious deed, krosan grip and various creature kills, Epoc' gives some nice recurring beats to fight the card advantage war.) 3) No color requirements -> no need for tropical to be on board, and risk it being wasted.

3) What do you think about Chalice of the Void in the SB as singleton trinket- target as addinational speed bump against LED based combo? Or in tough spot to protect your 'nought from StoP.

Hope this brings up some good discussion.

EDIT: spelling

[Maagler]

Ok, I have been testing/goofing around with the green splash version at the first page and I have few guestions for you Dreadstill pilots:

1) With starting hand of: Counterbalance, polluted delta, island, stifle, mishra's factory, landstill and trinket mage. Would you lead with Counterbalance -lock, quick Dreadnough or landstill? Lets say you are on play and opponent starts game with Flooded strand. Would you change tactic if he had mulliganed? What if you have figured out he's playing combo (but don't know what deck)?

2) Some times I seriously feel I'm lacking beats. In my opinion spell snare slot is the weakest in my testing, if this slot is changed into some creature what would you pick?
My answer: in greensplash build it's obviously Tarmogoyf, but I have also considered Epochrasite for various reasons: 1) it's 2-drop(like tarmo) so it fits curve nicely and gives another 2cc for counterbalance (something Spell Snare won't do). 2) Fights out attrition wars better than tarmogoyf. I have considered him as SB against rock and pox type decks (especially rock -type decks are giving me some nasty beating with pernicious deed, krosan grip and various creature kills, Epoc' gives some nice recurring beats to fight the card advantage war.) 3) No color requirements -> no need for tropical to be on board, and risk it being wasted.

3) What do you think about Chalice of the Void in the SB as singleton trinket- target as addinational speed bump against LED based combo? Or in tough spot to protect your 'nought from StoP.

Hope this brings up some good discussion.

EDIT: spelling

I also have been having trouble with rock type decks. I think I will try Epoc out to see if he is any good against them.

[The Ocho]

I played UW dreadstill at the 40 dual land legacy side event at PT Hollywood. There were about 95 people there which meant it would be 8 rounds. Swiss +1 was the tournament structure which meant there was no single elimination top 8. My official record was 6-2 which was 5th place.

I don't remember enough of the details to put together a tournament report.

round 1: win 2-0 vs. Rbg goblins
round 2: lose 1-2 vs. RG loam
round 3: win 2-1 vs. doran*
round 4: win 2-0 vs. draco explosion
round 5: win 2-0 vs. mono black aggro
round 6: win 2-1 vs. Ugw thresh**
round 7: win 2-1 vs. white stax
round 8: concede vs. affinity***

* This guy should have won but he wasn't very good so he lost.

** There was 1 minute left in the round when we were going to game 3. He said that he was really tired and conceded. A draw would have effectively been a double loss.

*** He had good breakers. I had bad breakers. There were two other tables of x-1's for round 8. If I had won, I might not have been ranked first after the swiss so I conceded because I'm a saint.


Dreadstill:

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinked Mage

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
3 Swords to Plowshares

2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Plains
5 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Meddling Mage
2 BEB
1 Hydroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Threads of Disloyalty


Having never played the deck before made making a sideboard as well as sideboarding a bit harder than one would used to. There are definately changes that I would make to this list if I were to play it again. I wasn't happy with the way some of the matchups ended playing out.

[Rood]

Congrats Ocho really glad to see Dreadstill worked out for you! How did the mages from the board work out for you?

[J.V.]

Having never played the deck before made making a sideboard as well as sideboarding a bit harder than one would used to. There are definately changes that I would make to this list if I were to play it again. I wasn't happy with the way some of the matchups ended playing out.

What changes would you have made?

[The Ocho]

How did the mages from the board work out for you?

I was a bit disappointed with the meddling mages. They weren't as useful as they are in type 1 where there are only a few cards that you care about. I would have rather had cards that smash a particular matchup like serenity or something of that sort. Having to run 4 ate up a lot of space which I also didn't like.

JanValentine00 Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ocho
Having never played the deck before made making a sideboard as well as sideboarding a bit harder than one would used to. There are definately changes that I would make to this list if I were to play it again. I wasn't happy with the way some of the matchups ended playing out.

What changes would you have made?

I was at a disadvantage for determining my maindeck configuration because I had no idea what the metagame would be like as well as what matchups I would want to prepare for just in case they were present. I would have run a fourth daze for sure. I was never unhappy to see one.

Oblivion ring might have been better to run maindeck over swords to plowshares because its versatility might have outweighed swords being the absolute nuts against aggro. My friend Luis also ran the deck. He dropped at 4-2 after losing to white stax and UW landstill. Swords may have been better in the sideboard.

[J.V.]

I was a bit disappointed with the meddling mages. They weren't as useful as they are in type 1 where there are only a few cards that you care about. I would have rather had cards that smash a particular matchup like serenity or something of that sort. Having to run 4 ate up a lot of space which I also didn't like.



I was at a disadvantage for determining my maindeck configuration because I had no idea what the metagame would be like as well as what matchups I would want to prepare for just in case they were present. I would have run a fourth daze for sure. I was never unhappy to see one.

Oblivion ring might have been better to run maindeck over swords to plowshares because its versatility might have outweighed swords being the absolute nuts against aggro. My friend Luis also ran the deck. He dropped at 4-2 after losing to white stax and UW landstill. Swords may have been better in the sideboard.

Ah so you basically would have played the same list we currently play for W splash. I agree 4 Daze is really amazing and O-Ring is just better in this deck. (Also it flips a 3cc for CB which is huge.)

This is the White Splash list we currently use:
Lands:20
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Tundra
5 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta

Creatures:7
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:33
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives

Side-15
3 Meddling Mage
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chill
2 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blue Elemental Blast

[The_Red_Panda]

Hey all, I'm wondering if any of you have done any extensive testing against white/Armageddon/angel stax. I've played around twenty pre-board games against that deck now and I've managed to win about 3. The games I win are basically turn two Stifle-Nought, backed up by Force coverage. The rest of the games he has some combination of Trini/Chalice@1/Geddon ect. that wrecks me pretty hard. If you guys have any tips on the match up, or any sideboard cards that are especially good against white stax, please let me know.

Ps. I'm playing the green-splash version, so I have Tarmo main. He did win one game for me alongside factory beatdown, but has otherwise been underwhelming. Perhaps I need to test against more aggro decks? Also, I'm having trouble with swarm aggro (Goblins, Slivers, whatever puts lots of creatures on the board) because I have no board sweeper. If any of you have an idea for a useful sweeper for this splash build of dreadstill, I'd be much obliged if you'd share your ideas.

[Rood]

Hey all, I'm wondering if any of you have done any extensive testing against white/Armageddon/angel stax. I've played around twenty pre-board games against that deck now and I've managed to win about 3. The games I win are basically turn two Stifle-Nought, backed up by Force coverage. The rest of the games he has some combination of Trini/Chalice@1/Geddon ect. that wrecks me pretty hard. If you guys have any tips on the match up, or any sideboard cards that are especially good against white stax, please let me know.

Ps. I'm playing the green-splash version, so I have Tarmo main. He did win one game for me alongside factory beatdown, but has otherwise been underwhelming. Perhaps I need to test against more aggro decks? Also, I'm having trouble with swarm aggro (Goblins, Slivers, whatever puts lots of creatures on the board) because I have no board sweeper. If any of you have an idea for a useful sweeper for this splash build of dreadstill, I'd be much obliged if you'd share your ideas.

Geddon Stax is tough pre-board i'm not surprised he got you pretty badly. It's cards like E-truth and K-grip from that board that really strengthen that matchup postboard to stop 3sphere from shutting us down. For board sweepers run a Volc or two and play Firesprout and Pyroclasm in your board.

[Clark Kant]

Ps. I'm playing the green-splash version, so I have Tarmo main. He did win one game for me alongside factory beatdown, but has otherwise been underwhelming. Perhaps I need to test against more aggro decks? Also, I'm having trouble with swarm aggro (Goblins, Slivers, whatever puts lots of creatures on the board).

If you're splashing green for the nonevasive Goyf, have you considered a black splash instead. It gives you access to Tombstalker which is far more broken than Goyf in that it's evasive. It also gives you Dark Confidant and Thoughtseize which is the nuts IMO. Black also has solid removal spells ala Ghastly Demise, Smother and Snuff Out against aggro or Damnation if sweepers are what you seek.

I mean something along the lines of...

// Lands
2 [PT] Island (1)
4 [A] Underground Sea
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant/Hypnotic Specter/Removal
3 [FUT] Tombstalker

// Spells
4 [LWN] Thoughtseize
4 [SC] Stifle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NE] Daze
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance

But maybe with the Confidant replaced by removal against aggro as Confidant's a bit suicidal in nonaggressive controllish decks, esp with Force of Will, Thoughtseize, and Tombstalker as well.

I have also considered Epochrasite for various reasons: 1) it's 2-drop(like tarmo) so it fits curve nicely and gives another 2cc for counterbalance (something Spell Snare won't do). 2) Fights out attrition wars better than tarmogoyf. I have considered him as SB against rock and pox type decks (especially rock -type decks are giving me some nasty beating with pernicious deed, krosan grip and various creature kills, Epoc' gives some nice recurring beats to fight the card advantage war.) 3) No color requirements -> no need for tropical to be on board, and risk it being wasted.

Epochrasite sounds really interesting actually. It lets you retain a white splash for broken cards like StP and O Ring, and (MM in the Sideboard against combo), but also is resilient to all removal except for Swords.

This deck plays some long games especially if they have removal for Dreadnought/goyf so I would love to try him.

Has anyone bothered to test him out yet?

[The_Red_Panda]

Hippy is shit without D-rit, Dark Confidant is completely unnecessary with Standstill in the deck, and you've cut Trinket Mage. Trinket mage is you single CB@3 slot and the fact that he beats for two and yanks dreadnought out of your library is just sexy. You really shouldn't be cutting him, especially for stuff like Tombstalker.

Tombstalker@8 and FOW@5 are very anti synergistic with CB/top and even more so with Dark Confidant. Tarmogoyf, on the other hand, loves CB/Top. There is also no way in hell I'm going to be able to cast Tombstalker t2, as I rarely have even three cards in my graveyard by that time.

My problem with swarm aggro was never that goyf could not get through, my problem was that they overran me early before I could either dig out CB/top or Nought/Stifle. Tarmo has been a complete house in all my matches against goblins, ect. and I'm only having a hard time justifying him against White stax and other rarely played control decks.

Tombstalker which is far more broken than Goyf

What? C'mon now, lets get serious here before I have to start putting your quotes into my sig.

[J.V.]

What? C'mon now, lets get serious here before I have to start putting your quotes into my sig.

I AM putting that into my sig. As for Black splash it is good and has been tested but you don't splash for creatures... (Bob is good, but Trinket is better in the deck...) You splash for thoughtseize main and E. Plague and extirpate side... thats about it.

[Clark Kant]

Spoken like someone who's never beaten face with Tombstalker.

In a deck with lots of fetchlands, cantrips, low cc spells, and that isn't dependent on the yard like thresh is, and that isn't trying to be insanely fast, Tombstalker IS the best threat you could ask for; to beat face, an effectively 2cc 5/5 flyer IS superior to a 2cc vanilla 4/5 that can be chumped for several turns before it actually starts doing damage.

Lets actually compare Tombstalker to Goyf in a deck like this (that fills the yard and doesn't rely on the yard for anything) shall we.

Tombstalker - 5/5 flyer that if not dealt with wins the game in four turns.

Doesn't give a crap about...

Spell Snare,
Shackles,
Engineered Explosives,
Regenerators
Deed,
Chalice at 2,
Counterbalance + Top,
Shriekmaw
Powder Keg,
The 3cc Control Magic for creatures with 2cc or less,
Smother,
Snuff Out,
Ghastly Demise,
most black based removal

vs.

Tarmogoyf - 4/5 w/o trample or evasion that can get chumped all day long

Loses to...

Spell Snare,
Shackles,
Engineered Explosives,
Regenerators
Deed,
Shriekmaw,
Chalice at 2,
Counterbalance + Top,
Powder Keg,
The 3cc Control Magic for creatures with 2cc or less,
Smother,
Snuff Out,
Ghastly Demise,
most black based removal

And don't try to tell me that any of these cards don't see tons of play, because if that's the case, we're playing two entirely different formats.

To be fair,

I did accidently overlook one problem with running him in this deck, the double BB casting cost. Not great for a light splash unfortunately. Otherwise, I would run here him in a heartbeat.

So moving on...

Other than Epochrasite, which seems slow but may have potential, another card that has potential without deviating from the white splash is...

Hoofprints of the Stag, has anyone tryed this card in the deck?

Hoofprints of the Stag not only works great with Brainstorm, but is fantastic under a standstill essentially giving even your landstill opponent no alternative other than to break the standstill even if they can waste or match your manlands. All while dodging landstill's beloved, StP your Goyf in response to Standstill play.

[Elfrago]

Can you give me some advices on what to side-out in the most common matchups? I'm having troubles with that.

[porcupinetreeman]

Spoken like someone who's never beaten face with Tombstalker.

I tried Tombstalker out in this deck and it isn't worth running.

- Poor synergy with counterbalance.
- Double black is hard to get at times; there are lots of colorless mana.

IMHO I think you should run either white for swords or green for goyf/grip.

Against Combo/burn/fast aggro you can swords your own dreadnought for some extra turns.

[Clark Kant]

The poor synergy w/ CB is more than made up for by the fact that it completely ignores the many many things that any threat with good synergy with CB is vulnerable to...

Spell Snare,
Shackles,
Engineered Explosives,
Regenerators
Deed,
Chalice at 2,
Counterbalance + Top,
Shriekmaw
Powder Keg,
The 3cc Control Magic for creatures with 2cc or less,
Smother,
Snuff Out,
Ghastly Demise,
most black based removal

All very popular cards that completly shut down Goyf and most of the threats out there that have good synergy with Counterbalance.

As for the BB cc and the white splash instead. I'll reterirate.

I did accidently overlook one problem with running him in this deck, the double BB casting cost. Not great for a light splash unfortunately. Otherwise, I would run here him in a heartbeat.

So moving on...

Other than Epochrasite, which seems slow but may have potential, another card that has potential without deviating from the white splash is...

Hoofprints of the Stag, has anyone tryed this card in the deck?

Hoofprints of the Stag not only works great with Brainstorm, but is fantastic under a standstill essentially giving even your landstill opponent no alternative other than to break the standstill even if they can waste or match your manlands. All while dodging landstill's beloved, StP your Goyf in response to Standstill play.

So any thoughts on Hoofprints of Stag here? It has great synergy with Brainstorm and absolutely fantastic synergy with Standstill.