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Thread: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by raudo View Post
    Recall went mental
    Unrestricted in swedish 93/94

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Soooooo ... foil Mox Diamond jumped from 120 to 500$ overnight thanks to a buyout of less than a dozen on TCG it seems. Ridiculous.

    I guess I will put aside ~16 grand and buy up all LEDs this weekend, just to show how stupid easy to manipulate the current market it. Will be fun to see how everyone reacts if a RL card without promos is suddenly on shortage and priced like Unlimited Moxen. You have 2 days. Enjoy.
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I guess I will put aside ~16 grand and buy up all LEDs this weekend, just to show how stupid easy to manipulate the current market it. Will be fun to see how everyone reacts if a RL card without promos is suddenly on shortage and priced like Unlimited Moxen. You have 2 days. Enjoy.
    This kind of already happened. Remember this?
    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...t-Buyouts.html

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    This kind of already happened. Remember this?
    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...t-Buyouts.html
    Wasn't effective. Mox Diamond and Cradle just show with how little copies/investment one can flip the market price upside down. LED is far too reasonable still for the current price spiral. Yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Price is not a trivially simple value. Most ways people estimate price are limited, in one way or another.

    It is apparent what is happening. A person decides to purchase all of the reasonably affordable copies of an old card that has some play-ability and limited number of copies readily available. The metric that people latch on to is saying that the price is now determined by a very small number of inappropriately priced remaining copies for sale.

    The metric is pretty flawed. I cant exchange the copies in my personal collection for cash using the prices it calculates once a buyout event unfolds. The metric is good for cards currently or recently in print, as there is generally a large supply and movements are based on tournament performance. For old reserved list cards, the value it reports as a price around the time of a buyout is very misleading. I wouldn't ever act as if there is real money backing that price.

    So, boiled down, people are upset/happy that a bad metric is saying the price of cards is swinging wildly. Sure, it gives us something to discuss, but that is about it. The metric isn't the price, it would benefit our group to stop acting as if it is. There are price movements that are backed by reality, such as the increases related to the developing interest in 93/94 and pauper. These are just my opinions.

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ramanujan View Post
    Price is not a trivially simple value. Most ways people estimate price are limited, in one way or another.

    It is apparent what is happening. A person decides to purchase all of the reasonably affordable copies of an old card that has some play-ability and limited number of copies readily available. The metric that people latch on to is saying that the price is now determined by a very small number of inappropriately priced remaining copies for sale.

    The metric is pretty flawed. I cant exchange the copies in my personal collection for cash using the prices it calculates once a buyout event unfolds. The metric is good for cards currently or recently in print, as there is generally a large supply and movements are based on tournament performance. For old reserved list cards, the value it reports as a price around the time of a buyout is very misleading. I wouldn't ever act as if there is real money backing that price.

    So, boiled down, people are upset/happy that a bad metric is saying the price of cards is swinging wildly. Sure, it gives us something to discuss, but that is about it. The metric isn't the price, it would benefit our group to stop acting as if it is. There are price movements that are backed by reality, such as the increases related to the developing interest in 93/94 and pauper. These are just my opinions.
    i do see lots of suckers on the facebook groups selling and others are buying into the hype though. i also see a lot of cards disappearing from MKM. still going even at the higher prices which normally sit there for quite some time once these buyouts start.
    -rob

  7. #6647

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Why people prefer ugly looking ftv mox diamond instead of original? I dont get it.

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by raudo View Post
    Why people prefer ugly looking ftv mox diamond instead of original? I dont get it.
    Because it sparkles and people are dumb and equate that to special. I've always hated foil cards - they don't prove a card is hard to get and/or their own dedication, they just prove gullibility. They show that a person has quite literally bought into the idea that an item of lesser quality is better because "ooOoo shiny" and because the people at WotC have told them that scarcity should equate to desirability. This was a game intended for young adults and older - then WotC decided to market it to children. Somehow there are people who don't realize that shiny cards aren't anything other than a marketing ploy.
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    not going to stick up for foils, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't wotc who came up with the idea of supply/demand, or even rarity/value. i remember sports cards having foil versions long before magic cards. (not that this was super innovative for their time either, but just pointing it out)

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    not going to stick up for foils, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't wotc who came up with the idea of supply/demand, or even rarity/value. i remember sports cards having foil versions long before magic cards. (not that this was super innovative for their time either, but just pointing it out)

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    I wasn't claiming WotC did some genius thing, just that people are dumb and easy to convince to buy something which is genuinely less quality than the other.
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    That's very easy to prove with any number of things.

    Eg. Trump, Applebee's, etc...
    -rob

  12. #6652

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Now AN Serendibs are spiking.

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Teluin View Post
    I wasn't claiming WotC did some genius thing, just that people are dumb and easy to convince to buy something which is genuinely less quality than the other.

    You are missing all the positive things that foils do for you, a non foil player. Foils make more rarities, it's not just C, U, R, M it's those with foil versions, C, CF, U, UF, R, RF, M, MF. All that matters is that someone wants them and is willing to pay for them, the lotto ticket nature of them adds value to boosters and boxes, for players and stores, while making the non foil versions cheaper over all. PR promos and other printings add to this as well, to help suppress parts of the market.

    If you remove foils and promos from the products, all cards suddenly get more expensive.

    of course it's marketing, but humans like different aesthetics, if they didn't there would only be black sleeves, and blank play mats, but look there is a whole rainbow of colours and images to choose from. People like foils not just cause they are harder to get, or are a cheaper quality, people like to differentiate themselves and their possessions in different ways.

    Card art is irrelevant to how the game works on any level, but do you think magic would be great if all cards were just text based?

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Card art is vital to how the game works on a fundamental level. If you force something I'm not looking at the title to id the card, I'm looking at the art. Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Card art is vital to how the game works on a fundamental level. If you force something I'm not looking at the title to id the card, I'm looking at the art. Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.
    While I get your meaning, the opposite is actually true. A card's art is superfluous, proven by the fact cards have multiple arts. Meanwhile they all have the same text.

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    That is also untrue. Wrath of God has a ton of different text and Lightning Bolt now has the ability to do something it was never able to on printing.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    That is also untrue. Wrath of God has a ton of different text and Lightning Bolt now has the ability to do something it was never able to on printing.
    It is true if you read what I wrote honestly instead of picking nits.

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    That is also untrue. Wrath of God has a ton of different text and Lightning Bolt now has the ability to do something it was never able to on printing.
    Actually bolt always said one target. We just added a target;)
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Card art is vital to how the game works on a fundamental level. If you force something I'm not looking at the title to id the card, I'm looking at the art. Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.

    Card art is very important for a whole host of reasons and the game would be wayyyyy shittier without it for a bunch of reasons, but it's not important from a game mechanics perspective. You can play the game just fine without art, it is just less enjoyable and smooth, but the game doesnt' need art to function or play. The distinction is small but important.

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Thing is text does change. Just not often.

    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

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