Dragon Stompy hasn't had an agreed upon 'best 75' since the days of Rakdos Pit Dragon... probably not even back then. The Bottled Cloister list was the topic of discussion just before Burning Wish started picking up speed in this thread.Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Here's a couple of recent lists on TC Decks that use a few copies:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25287&iddeck=198505
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25808&iddeck=202634
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25742&iddeck=202165
Seems like if you are on the Bridge plan you want Faeries as drawn Leylines will get stuck in your hand, right?
Could flexible answers like Pillage or Aftershock ever deserve a space? While single-use spells like Stone Rain/Roast are easier to cast, if you're running out of slots I think adding utility to a wish target could work. A shame that Chaos Warp is an instant.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
That's totally valid if your meta calls for pillage! I like the option but 1RR is rather tough to consistently cast
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Aftershock is a nice find! Forgot about that one.3 damage could be an issue obv.
New Stompy player here! Put together a multiple Chandra version and got my ass laughably handed to me in a MODO league!Lost to some Grixis-TNN thing (i assume Delver but never actually saw any Delvers...), D&T twice, Sneak-n-Show, and Eldrazi Stompy.
I put the list together expecting a much more counter-heavy meta and stuff like burn. Here's the list I ran:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster |
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance |<-- diversified Chandras to hedge against Surgical/Needle/Revoker/Spyglass/etc
1 Chandra, the Firebrand |
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Volcanic Fallout <-- maindecked this expecting a bunch of Delver/permission decks
1 Hazoret the Fervent <-- seemed really good, liked turning extra cards in to damage deuces and keeping hand empty for Bridge
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide |
4 Ancient Tomb |
4 City of Traitors |<-- 28 mana sources and still found myself wanting more. wtf?
3 Chrome Mox |
2 Lotus Petal |
11 Mountain |
SB:
2 Abrade
2 Dragon's Claw <-- thought these might be good against burn and in the mirror. probably better as 2 Kozilek's Return for D&T m/u
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Rolling Earthquake
3 Sorcerous Spyglass <-- seems like every opposing deck has at least a couple juicy targets, almost want 4...
So, aside from obviously needing more drive time with the deck and getting a feel for mulligan/keep decisions, any advice on tuning for the MODO meta? I've tried the Burning Wish package in other decks and not really feeling it, I never seem to be able to utilize it when necessary. I'm wondering about my decision to go for what i felt was an Ensnaring Bridge-friendly version, but Bridge did seem OK in the S&S, Eldrazi, and TNN matchups (for the single games i won in each). Thoughts?
BTW, is Mother of Runes bugged on MODO? In one game she gave Phyrexian Revoker pro-Red and it lasted the rest of the game, not just the rest of the turn. anyone seen that behavior before?
Last edited by Zooligan; 01-02-2018 at 01:03 PM.
I run the creature version of your deck, but let me make a few basic suggestions.New Stompy player here! Put together a multiple Chandra version and got my ass laughably handed to me in a MODO league!
I put the list together expecting a much more counter-heavy meta and stuff like burn. Here's the list I ran:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster |
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance |<-- diversified Chandras to hedge against Surgical/Needle/Revoker/Spyglass/etc
1 Chandra, the Firebrand |
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Volcanic Fallout <-- maindecked this expecting a bunch of Delver/permission decks
1 Hazoret the Fervent <-- seemed really good, liked turning extra cards in to damage deuces and keeping hand empty for Bridge
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide |
4 Ancient Tomb |
4 City of Traitors |<-- 28 mana sources and still found myself wanting more. wtf?
3 Chrome Mox |
2 Lotus Petal |
11 Mountain |
SB:
2 Abrade
2 Dragon's Claw <-- thought these might be good against burn and in the mirror. probably better as 2 Kozilek's Return for D&T m/u
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Rolling Earthquake
3 Sorcerous Spyglass <-- seems like every opposing deck has at least a couple juicy targets, almost want 4...
So, aside from obviously needing more drive time with the deck and getting a feel for mulligan/keep decisions, any advice on tuning for the MODO meta? I've tried the Burning Wish package in other decks and not really feeling it, I never seem to be able to utilize it when necessary. I'm wondering about my decision to go for what i felt was an Ensnaring Bridge-friendly version, but Bridge did seem OK in the S&S, Eldrazi, and TNN matchups (for the single games i won in each). Thoughts?
BTW, is Mother of Runes bugged on MODO? In one game she gave Phyrexian Revoker pro-Red and it lasted the rest of the game, not just the rest of the turn. anyone seen that behavior before?
Chandra ToD is too good not to 4x her. She's the best red PW'er. So you may get her needled; big deal. You might even find a Confluence to get her back online. I'd switch a Firebrand for the 4th Torch in a heartbeat.
Some people here swear by Trinisphere. I used to run the card with Crucible/Waste lock, and I can say this: I hate the card - it only really hurts storm combo, and not as much as you think, depending on their hand. It's slow, durdley, and a total POS when you can't wipe lands off the field. Burning Wish is so so so versatile in this build of the deck that I can't impress upon you how useful it is. Look at some of the basic B Wish packages here - Confluence, Boiling Seas, and Pillage should all make it in your SB.
Lotus Petal should be the 4th Chrome Mox. No doubt. You need to cast multiple spells of your Petal to win the game - hence Mox. I feel the 2nd petal should be another Mountain. Some people play the one-of Petal here and swear by it. Truth is - you have no filtering, a Petal is only good in your opening hand... sometimes. And the Mountain is probably what you want T3+. It makes approximately 2% a difference in your deck. Still, I think Mountain is the right call.
*******
You'll notice some miserable hands where you don't have enough Red sources for your Confluences and stuff. The other version of this deck is more Stompy with a tonna creatures. You said 28 mana sources wasn't enough - stompy can run a few more, and there's definitely a way lower curve to the deck. Also, Stompy loves running 4 Magus, not 2-3, which is suboptimal - Magus + Moon is the only reason you're running this Chalice deck over any other colors.
Playstyles are really different - this Stax-ish build sits behind a Bridge. Stompy wants to swing in with Goblin Rabblemaster, and it has a very high threat density - more than 1/3 the deck is serious threats (over here you have really 6 threats). I've tried both, and a T1 Rabblemaster is like running 4 more Moons, it has to be stopped right away (usually with FoW too). But up to you which playstyle you prefer. I'd try both, as Imperial Recruiters are dirt cheap on MODO, and are in the optimal Stompy build. In paper, Recruiter can probably become Burning Wish or just Confluences.
-Frogs
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
How does the Bridge plan interact with the Rabblemasters? Seems sort of like a nonbo. Should Bridges live in the board just for big creature matchups (S&S, Eldrazi)??
Frogger plays the creature-heavy build, but kinda went back and forth (between his build and yours) on giving advice about the deck. Your Ensnaring Bridges stay in the main deck. His are in the sideboard against creatures with power 7 or greater.
I respect a 1-of Lotus Petal because it can be put into play off Chandra ToD's + whereas a Mountain cannot. But he's right; 4 Chrome Mox / 1 Lotus Petal is better than 3 CM / 2 LP.
Yeah, with creatures, you generally don’t want Bridge. If you’re curious, Rabblemaster can swing through Bridge @ 2. It pumps after the swing. But that usually doesn’t come up. You can run Bridge in the SB with the creature build, but I don’t because nothing in life feels better than swinging a Hazoret with haste, esp into smashing a Liliana of the Veil. I still get shivers doing that. Jace obv can’t deal with the haste, either.
EDIT: With your PW’ers, keep the Bridges MD, definitely.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
After playing with the 'walker version, I'm not 100% sure it's for me. Seems a little TOO slow. I'm not sure an all-in creature plan is for me either. Thinking a hybrid with 4 C,ToD, 4 Rabbledabble, a couple Hazoret, and the usual Magi and Apes. That would leave room for the Wish package or a grip of long-reach burn/sweepers.
Maybe something like this??
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Burning Wish
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
SB:
1 Banefire
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Pillage
1 Pyroclasm
1 Roast
1 Rolling Earthquake
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sulfur Elemental
Or a non-Wish version something like:
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere <-- seems appropriate to help keep Rabblemaster from getting Plowed/Pushed/Bolted before it blooms, right?
4 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
SB:
2 Ashen Rider <-- SOMETHING to help the abysmal S&S m/u
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sulfur Elemental <-- D&T m/u
I’ll mention a couple things about the Creature and the PW’er build.
The creature build - the more dudes you run, the more Umezawa’s Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice become active and game-swinging. I ran 4 Chandra and 4 Fiery Confluence originally with creatures, but when I got Imperial Recruiters I decided to leverage my equipment harder. What I found using Chandra and Confluence with my Rabble-build was that my gameplan wasn’t always in sync. I might have an equipment floating around without a body, or sometimes Magus and Chandra - which is great! - but you can’t really close a game that way versus most board states. One creature - a Thalia, TNN, or even worse, Batterskull - mucks up your winning hard.
I opted to make Chandra into Recruiter (which is expensive! But can be B Wish...) and Confluence into Zoetic Cavern. My list runs 30 mana-sources, and I never have to mulligan.
The PW’er build has some awkward spots where you’ll want to Confluence to hit a problem creature, and will end up wiping your own Magus off the field. Very awkward, and gets more awkward with 4 Rabbles. But it ostensibly runs more powerful cards - Bridge, Chandra, Wish, Confluence - just the DnT matchup is super rough on you. Note that Sneak and Show is probably easier with your 4 Bridges in the 75. I’ve expressed my preferences for the creature build on here already, but it depends on your meta. If you face a lot of cheated Emrakuls, some Marit Lages, and even Goyfs and Knights of the Reliquary, anything big and fat and cheap (or cheated) Bridge is going to be a brick house there. It runs sweepers to deal with the weenies it can’t handle (again, wiping your own Magus or Rabble). You can fight things like Elves, Infect, DnT and other weenie decks, but if you run creatures + Jitte instead, you can control the board for the rest of the game.
I mention the differences here because you’re pushing into mixing both builds, but not committing one way or another, which cuts you out of some of your most powerful cards. The creature build loves Equipment, but also Thorn of Amethyst, which is much better than Trinisphere - much quicker, and pounds all combo, not just Storm; the PW’er build leverages its board wipes much more effectively, in Confluence, B Wish targets, and even Rolling Earthquake.
You’ll win games just based on the power level of your cards, but when I ran a mixed list, it never felt streamlined or “complete” I guess.
And I’ll also mention not to run uncastable spells in your 75, even for Show and Tell. Ashen Rider should be just Ensnaring Bridge, yo. That switch will give you an option against Knight of the Reliquary decks, too. I’m not a fan of running it just for Marit Lages and stuff like that, but to each his/her own. Stingscourger - if you can’t fight ‘em, bounce ‘em. (Dead // Gone is actually really good, too)
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Hmm... Interesting points. I'll have to think on this a bit. Don't think I can budget running Recruiter in paper anytime soon. :( In fact, I'm mostly an online player. Finding paper legacy around me is not something that happens regularly. i guess that means you could call "my" meta the MTGO meta.
What does your list look like? I have recruiters that haven’t been touched since I was playing iPainter. It would be nice to sleeve them up again.
I put it up somewhere on here, but I pm'd you the list. I have maybe 2-3 slots for Recruiter updated.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Anyone see the new Blood Sun Spoiler?
2R
When enters the battlefield Draw a card.
All Lands lose all abilities except for mana abilities.
Seems pretty good. Completely turns off fetchlands.
For this deck it seems like Blood Sun << Blood Moon tho. Why shut them off non-mana abilities when you can shut them off non-mana abilities and colors besides red??
Blood Moon >> Blood Sun, yes. But so does Blood Moon >> Magus of the Moon. I think it could be a mini-Moon option, make it 12 Moons. And it cantrips, too. Definitely a possibility here. I'd hate to cut my Imperial Recruiters right now...
EDIT: Shuts off your City of Traitors sac ability...
EDIT 2: There's a buyout of Lotus Vale (but not Scorched Ruins). Thoughts? It's probably too cute to Blood Sun them into play, but let's see what people think.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I think that this card is very playable too. People who are comparing this to magus or blood moon are foolish, obviously those types of effects are going to be far and away the best nonbasic hate in the format. This card is just an additional prison piece like 3 ball, but has way more utility than 3 ball atleast imo.
But what 4 would you cut to add in sub-par moon effects 9-12?? I mean, if you feel the effect+card is powerful enough to bump other things, go crazy. Maybe it is what the deck wants instead of Bridges or 3-balls. I dunno, I'm the new guy around here.
I'm thinking this card might be OK, esp against decks that play cheap counterspells.
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