[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Darkgobs]

Hey guys!
If we put asside the fact that TinFins isn't really optimal in the current meta (except if Omnitell becomes the most represented deck), which list would you pick right now, between a BUw-standard list and the BUr-wish list?

[Higgs]

If you resign to the fact that your deck isn't good in the current meta then it means you are in it for the fun, so you should pick whichever version feels like the more busted one. I would probably play the Burning Wish version because it's just fucking cool :)

[.dk]

The deck is just fucking cool. Play both. Play neither. Play your own version. Just burst some goddamn onions!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The deck is just fucking cool. Play both. Play neither. Play your own version. Just burst some goddamn onions!

Qft. This deck is fun for trolling more than anything. Do that, it's on par with winning.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Darkgobs]

Ahahah! Thanks for your answer guys!
I intend to burn some facking onions, that's for sure!^^
But my quesiton was also serious, so i would put it again: if you are to play against a meta with a lot of: Miracle / Blade Control / Young Pyromancer-Delver.deck , which version do you prefer, especially regarding the SB? In thoses match-up, which one seems better between a Burning Wish adaptative SB and a more protective Silence-Serenity SB? (I often tend to side in my silences against decks with a lot of countermagic)

[.dk]

Well, the burning wish version gets your more versatility. However, that seems like it would be a rather heavy counterspell meta, in which case I would personally steer towards UBw, as you're not dumping your hand to LED there, and can eventually run them out of counterspells with either redundancy or discard spells. But then again, I also just prefer that version in a general sense. YMMV.

[Richard Cheese]

Ahahah! Thanks for your answer guys!
I intend to burn some facking onions, that's for sure!^^
But my quesiton was also serious, so i would put it again: if you are to play against a meta with a lot of: Miracle / Blade Control / Young Pyromancer-Delver.deck , which version do you prefer, especially regarding the SB? In thoses match-up, which one seems better between a Burning Wish adaptative SB and a more protective Silence-Serenity SB?

I honestly haven't heard much about the UBr-lists lately. It sounded like it had some promise but I haven't really had the time or motivation to test it myself. Maybe someone that was working on that version can chime in and let us know how some of those matchups are.

Or, you can be the guinea pig. Build both versions, play the shit out of both, let us know what you think.

[Darkgobs]

Or, you can be the guinea pig. Build both versions, play the shit out of both, let us know what you think.

Well, i built and tested both of them, few month ago, but that was befor TC ban, so the meta wasn't quite the same (also, beeing able to BW into TC was quite sweet).
My thoughts were that the UBr version had some better G1 and some weaker G2-3, due to the lack of serenity/silence against Miracle / Contermagic.deck especially. But against Miracle, Empty the Warren with only 4 storm token could sometimes be really cool if they couldn't find a Terminus in time. So I coudln't really tell which one was better, that's why I am asking to you guys: to have more input! :)

[.dk]

I don't think there is enough data to say, honestly. I know Pomegrant has put a lot of work into the Burning Wish version, but I'm not sure how many other people have tested it in big/competitive events and tried to tune it further.

[CabalTherapy]

I played the "old" UBw list today with 4 Decay and Bayou/Tropical in the board, while using 4 Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Daze as protection and I have to admitt that Daze was awesome today. Although being casted only twice, it created awesome value negating Force of Will and in another match Counterbalance which lead to a win. Additionaly, I don't understand how one can play without Decay in the board since it is 10 billion times better than Serenity (tested it once, was worst plan ever ).
Had to play against 2 Team America and 2 Miracles, losing to one of the tempo decks and winning a lot via natural Tendrils.

[Pomegrant]

I think the version of the deck I built was much better pre-Treasure Cruise ban because Miracles moved out of the format a lot more during this time. Now that Miracles is one of the more represented decks, along with BUG Delver, I'm not confident with my list. It's very difficult for my version to beat Miracles, even though I think the deck has a lot of trouble with it anyway. I haven't worked on my version of the deck in a while, but I'm up to 4 Griselbrand to maximize getting them into the graveyard with LED. I think that the Burning Wish version still fixes some of the issues I found with the deck but created others in terms of being worse to hard counters that you sometimes just can't afford to play around. LED is great but having to discard answers to a hate card isn't good. I don't really see anything that can make miracles worse so I don't have much hope for my version of the deck moving forward.

[Darkgobs]

I played the "old" UBw list today with 4 Decay and Bayou/Tropical in the board, while using 4 Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Daze as protection and I have to admitt that Daze was awesome today. Although being casted only twice, it created awesome value negating Force of Will and in another match Counterbalance which lead to a win. Additionaly, I don't understand how one can play without Decay in the board since it is 10 billion times better than Serenity (tested it once, was worst plan ever ).
Had to play against 2 Team America and 2 Miracles, losing to one of the tempo decks and winning a lot via natural Tendrils.

So you've got space for Bayou + Tropical? How is your manabase built? Something like 2-3 Underground Sea, 1 Tundra, 1 Bayou, 1 Tropical Island, 1 Scrubland? Wasn't that a problem against wasteland?

@Pomegrand:
Thank you for your answer!

[CabalTherapy]

So you've got space for Bayou + Tropical? How is your manabase built? Something like 2-3 Underground Sea, 1 Tundra, 1 Bayou, 1 Tropical Island, 1 Scrubland? Wasn't that a problem against wasteland?

Bayou and Tropical are in the board. My main manabase is: 2 USea, 1 Scrubland, 1 Swamp, 1 Island, 8 Fetchlands. I wouldn't play this deck without basic lands.

[Darkgobs]

Bayou and Tropical are in the board. My main manabase is: 2 USea, 1 Scrubland, 1 Swamp, 1 Island, 8 Fetchlands. I wouldn't play this deck without basic lands.

Ahh, ok! So, another question then: against Miracle, how do you side in, considering you're trying to pack Silence AND Decay?

[CabalTherapy]

Ahh, ok! So, another question then: against Miracle, how do you side in, considering you're trying to pack Silence AND Decay?

I don't go for Silence but for 1 Bayou, 1 Tropical, 4 Decay, 2 Needle to stop Counterbalance and Top.
I have cut something like this: -1 Therapy, -1 Petal, -1 Chrome Mox, -2 Probe, -1 Reanimate and used the "new" rule to have more cards postboard in the main than before boarding. I have boarded intuitively and there are possibly more sophisticated approaches to it. I did leave 2 Daze main even post-board on the draw against Miracles because I knew that I could trade Counterbalance with it, which in the end really happened once.

[Darkgobs]

I don't go for Silence but for 1 Bayou, 1 Tropical, 4 Decay, 2 Needle to stop Counterbalance and Top.
I have cut something like this: -1 Therapy, -1 Petal, -1 Chrome Mox, -2 Probe, -1 Reanimate and used the "new" rule to have more cards postboard in the main than before boarding. I have boarded intuitively and there are possibly more sophisticated approaches to it. I did leave 2 Daze main even post-board on the draw against Miracles because I knew that I could trade Counterbalance with it, which in the end really happened once.

Ok, pretty clear...except...you said you were playing and "Old UBw list". If not for Serenity nor Silence, what is the white for? I guess it's not for hardcasting Children! Or you meant UBg?

[CabalTherapy]

Ok, pretty clear...except...you said you were playing and "Old UBw list". If not for Serenity nor Silence, what is the white for? I guess it's not for hardcasting Children! Or you meant UBg?

Actually, it is UBw with g in the side. With "old" I have wanted to say that it is not the Wish/LED list which is "newer". I should have stated that using other words probably. I have 3 Silence in the side which I wouldn't use against Miracles but primarily against other combodecks. There is only one white land in the deck and I see it as another Swamp most of the times; comparable to the role of Volcanic Island in ANT casting only one spell from the main and maybe one more from the side. My side looks like this at the moment:
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
3 Silence
But don't value my words too much because I play this deck to have some time off from playing ANT and mostly for reasons of fun.

[Kathal]

Heyho guys!

I busted some Onions 2 weeks ago for the first time (5 Round tournament). I'm not new to Griselbrand, since I "cast" him in Modern and do pretty much the same stuff as Tin Fins (- Tendrils Kill, + Borborygmos Enraged kill, cause Modern ).

Just want to give a small report.

List:

//Lands
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

//Spells
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
4 Shallow Grave
1 Tendrils of Agony

//Creatures
1 Children of Korlis
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

//Sideboard
SB: 1 Shelldock Isle
SB: 3 Lion's Eye Diamond
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 Sensei's Divining Top
SB: 1 Ideas Unbound
SB: 4 Doomsday

(And yes, I was so lazy/had not that much time for anything else, so I just copied .dk list, since I like the DDFT sideboard and I didn't want to play DDFT since I didn't get that much sleep, so Tin Fins it was)

Round 1 vs Jeskai/WUR Stoneblade 1-2

Game 1: Mull down to 4, nice, first time I play the deck in a tournament and I start with a mull to 4, looks great. I drew garbage (Tendrils, Children and co) and I couldn't assemble something to win and died to 2 Stoneforge with Skull and SoFI. Also I didn't want to show him, what I was playing.

Game 2: Mull to 6, but a good hand (some cantrips and discard). He kept a decent hand against anything fair (Snap, Council, 3 lands after a BS to protect his hand from a Duress) and he died because of this on Turn 4.

Game 3: Kept a good hand, started to go off (turn 3), drew 14 cards, went down to 3 before I attacked and died to a bolt -,-* . I should have won this one, but yeah, when you are playing against a red deck and you don't play around bolt, I deserve it.


Round 2 vs Reanimator 2-1

Game 1: We both cantripped for a few turns and than he slammed Iona down on turn 3 not cool bro.

Game 2: Revenge, turn 1 entomb, turn 2 Duress (he opened with Trop, Petal and had in hand 2 BS, Tidespout Tyrant, 2 Fetches, Inkwell) and he couldn't find a force in the top 4 so he died to a hasty Griselbrand AND Emrakul.

Game 3: I show him how to play proper Reanimator and reanimated Grisel on turn 1 and killed him 2 turns later with beats by Dr. Grisel :D


Round 3 vs Wr Death and Taxes (what Bahra_ is currently playing) 2-1

Game 1: Mull to 5, again. He opened with land go, followed by Thalia and he wasted my only land afterwards, didn't help that I had the kill in hand, when I can't cast anything. I died to Thalia, Stoneforge + Skull beatdown.

Game 2: Griselbrand says hello on Turn 3.

For game 3 I switch to DDFT: He is manascrwed and had a pretty awesome hand against Tin Fins (both RiP and Priest). I killed him with DD on turn 4 via classic pile. I'm not sure if I should switch here too DDFT, since Thalia is a pain in the ass, but can be played around, but since I knew he had both RiP and Containment Priest in his board, I didn't want to run in those.


Round 4 vs Ub Omnitell (Duress instead of Gitaxian Probe) 2-1

Game 1: He casted S&T on Turn 3, he had the Omniscience into Emrakul, I had the Griselbrand. I knew, that he didn't have any counters in hand (1 card left which was a land). My way to win was, to draw 14 cards from Griselbrand, get a DR into Entomb for Children and Shallow Grave it gain 14 say go, take the hit and combo of on my turn. With the first 7 I didn't hit DR and with the second 7 I drew the Children. Well poop. I explained it later to him, and he didn't even realize how close it actually was.

Game 2: I looked at my hand Duress, Entomb, DR, Shallow Grave, Ponder, Petal, Sea. Turn 1 protected kill? Deal (he didn't have double force).

Game 3: What is better than a Turn 1 protected kill game 2? Right, another one in Game 3 :D He was pretty salty afterwards, since he had the turn 2 kill, but yeah, I'm faster :P


Looking at the standings it was a win and in for Top 8.

Round 5 vs Ponder Miracle 1-2

Game 1: I was otp, Turn 1 Ponder, he land go, I untap, think a little bit, cast a Duress, he BS in response showed me garbage and I busted some Onions. Later he showed me, that a Force and Spell Snare was on top of his bib.

I boarded in the DDFT plan, since I didn't knew how good Tin Fins is against Miracles post board. I also already played many games with DDFT against Miracles, which made the decision even easier.

Game 2: I opened with Probe and see 3x Force, Counterspell, Spell Snare and Jace. Well poop. I tried to Therapy something, he forced it, pitching Jace. 1 Force down, 2 to go. He drew is second land (lucker). I played my top, he needles it. Okeyy didn't expect that. We played draw and go for some turns, I tried to Therapy again at some point, he forces and casted Containment Priest eot. He swings for a few turns and slowly I'm able to assemble a kill through his counter wall (he still had Counterspell, Snare and Force, +3 unkown cards). The next time I fired a duress of, he counterspells it, so I played a redundant DD and I was thinking that he will force it. He let it resolve. Well, didn't expect that. I made a pile which beats his hand (at least the Force and the Snare), but I need to draw the top card for this, so that I'm able to make a double DD pile again. He flashed another Priest in and put down to 3, so I wasn't able to execute the pile. I can't remember anymore how the pile exactly looked and what I had in my hand.

I was considering to switch back, but I decided against it, since he wants the Priest as Flash creature and won't board it out.

Game 3: Probe again, see 2 Force, Priest, Dig, Snare, Island, Plains. So only 2 Forces this time. I played top, drew lands and discard spells and fired them of, he started the beats with Priest, soon followed by another one. At one point the board looked like this: His side, 2 Priests, 2 Plains, Karakas, Island, Tundra. I have 5 lands + a top. Life totals 1 on my side, 19 on his side. In my hand 2 DR, 2 LEDs, I know I have 2 lands (1 of them a fetch) and a Tendrils on top of my deck. He had 3 cards in hand, one of them a Spell Snare. It is his end step. My plan was, now, cast the DR and LEDs and Tendrils him for 10 and hope to draw anything in the next 2 turns. And at that exact moment I threw the game. Two mistakes occured:

First, I didn't put Tendrils on top of my bib, but a land and I noticed this mistake when I drew for my turn. So I executed my plan, so DRs, he says ok, LEDs? ok. Draw with top? ok. Draw Tendrils, Tendrils him for 10. And here is the moment where,

mistake number 2 occurred. I didn't use top to look in the top 3 cards to see the new one. I had enough Mana at this point (5B and still 4 untapped lands) to afford this. The question is now, what was the third card on top? A Ponder. If I would have drawn the Ponder instead of the Tendrils, I could have re-drawn the Top, which basically adds 2 Storm and I would have gotten another look at a fresh card.

Since I made those 2 mistakes, I had now no cards in hand, a Top on top of my bib, 2 LEDs in play and I was at 11 life instead of 15. He attacked me for 4 next turn, I drew top, played it, looked in the top 3 cards, I see 2 lands and a Ponder, put the Ponder on top, say go, he eot a Snapcaster and attacked me down to 1. When I drew Ponder for my turn and casted it, there was a DD as the third card, which I couldn't cast since I was at 1.

If I would have taken the "correct" line, I would have been able to cast the DD and win that turn (I still had the 2 LEDs in play). Since he didn't had access to UUU he couldn't Snapcaster a Counterspell, which he used on a LDV earlier, and the rest of his hand were blanks (he showed me his hand afterwards, which contained 2 Snares).

I threw that game, so no dual for me


But overall I really liked the deck and had several awesome plays which I didn't mentioned (like upkeep LDVs, for 3 good cards, draw one of them, play BS draw the other 2 and use another LDV as a shuffle effect :D ). In the end it reminded me, of how awesome and busted Griselbrand is in Legacy, not only in Modern ;D. Also, somebody asked me, why I play this deck and I simply said, I just want to troll people, and bust some Onions. It helped, that I just killed my opponent on Turn 1 :D

I will stick to this deck and if I go to Lillie, I will play this deck. Maybe without the DD sideboard, but killing the opponent with both Grisel and DD is just awesome (and max trolling :D ).

Greetings,
Kathal

[.dk]

Nice report - sounds like a fun event for you. I think you're right for going to DDFT against D&T, although I can see sticking with Tin Fins on the play. Against Miracles, I don't think you can board fast enough into DDFT. Curve is more diverse and your main business spell is a 3 drop, which is much harder for them to counter. Also, they have a rough time beating Emrakul usually.

Also - if you play it again, I think you should cut the Tundra. I've been playing a 4th Sea lately, but I could also see changing up the fetches to play 1 Swamp, 1 Island, 3 Seas, 1 Scrubland too.

[Kathal]

Yeah, had the same thoughts regarding D&T. I just have absolute no experience with Tin Fins (only some goldfish games), before I played at the tournament, so I wasn't sure, what to do.

Funny enough, I kinda like the DDFT vs Miracles match-up. I miss the Decays but there is not enough room in the SB to add those. I think, I'm even against Miracles with DDFT, maybe slightly more wins than loses, but I know the match-up pretty well. But from time to time I still make punts like this one :(

Regarding the Manabase, I don't own a 4th Underground, so I can't play a 4th one. I probably want a Island instead of the Tundra, what I noticed in the tournament.

Greetings,
Kathal