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Thread: [Format] Old-School Magic

  1. #1
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    [Format] Old School Magic

    I haven't seen it discussed here too much, but there are a few versions of this format currently being supported by tournaments:

    The "Original:" Magic: 93/94

    93/94, Old School Mtg, started 2007 in the casual Magic scene in Gothenburg, Sweden, and have since grown with players across Europe and North America. A total of seven sets are allowed in the format; Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends and The Dark. Non-English versions and reprints after Unlimited are considered proxies, and 93/94 is not played with proxies. The hard, time consuming and expensive road to build most decks is considered an important feature of the format. You play with what you own, and try to find what you need.
    Ban/Restriction
    Legal sets:
    Alpha
    Beta
    Unlimited
    Arabian Nights
    Antiquities
    Legends
    The Dark
    Only English versions are allowed in 93/94 Constructed.

    As of May 11th, 2015, Summer Magic is now legal for 93/94 play.

    Restricted in 93-94 Constructed:
    Ancestral Recall
    Balance
    Black Lotus
    Black Vise
    Braingeyser
    Channel
    Chaos Orb
    Demonic Tutor
    Fork
    Library of Alexandria
    Mana Drain
    Maze of Ith
    Mind Twist
    Mishra's Workshop
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Jet
    Mox Pearl
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Sapphire
    Recall
    Regrowth
    Shahrazad
    Sol Ring
    Strip Mine
    Time Vault
    Time Walk
    Timetwister
    Wheel of Fortune

    As of May 11th, 2015, Power Artifact and Mirror Universe are no longer Restricted.

    Banned i 93-94 Constructed:
    (The ante-cards are banned in tournaments that doesn't play for ante)
    Bronze Tablet
    Contract from Below
    Darkpact
    Demonic Attorney
    Jeweled Bird
    Rebirth
    Tempest Efreet

    Errata:
    Chaos Orb (2)
    Artifact
    1, Tap: Choose a nontoken permanent on the battlefield. If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, and touches the chosen permanent, destroy that permanent. Then destroy Chaos Orb.
    Eudemonia in California has rung a few events with a slight modification to the 93/94 rules (also ran by JACO and Nedleeds at Eternal Weekend with a different restricted list (see below)): Old-School Magic

    Format:
    This format is based off of the 93/94 format with several changes to set legality and the banned/restricted lists.
    Legal Sets:
    Alpha
    Beta
    Unlimited
    Revised
    Arabian Nights
    Antiquities
    Legends
    The Dark
    Fallen Empires
    Chronicles
    Collector’s Edition — in double-sleeved decks only
    International Edition — in double-sleeved decks only

    Banned Cards:

    Bronze Tablet
    Contract from Below
    Darkpact
    Demonic Attorney
    Jeweled Bird
    Rebirth
    Tempest Efreet

    Restricted Cards:

    Ancestral Recall
    Balance
    Black Lotus
    Braingeyser
    Channel
    Chaos Orb
    Demonic Tutor
    Library of Alexandria
    Mana Drain
    Mana Vault
    Maze of Ith
    Mind Twist
    Mishra’s Workshop
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Jet
    Mox Pearl
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Sapphire
    Power Artifact
    Recall
    Regrowth
    Shahrazad
    Sol Ring
    Strip Mine
    Time Vault
    Time Walk
    Timetwister
    Wheel of Fortune

    Special Errata:

    Chaos Orb (2)
    Artifact
    1, Tap: Choose a nontoken permanent on the battlefield. If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, and touches the chosen permanent, destroy that permanent. Then destroy Chaos Orb.
    Unrestricted in JACO's Eternal Weekend Old School:

    Black Vise
    Fork
    Hymn to Tourach
    Mana Vault
    Mirror Universe
    Mishra's Workshop
    Power Artifact
    Shahrazad
    Strip Mine
    One more formats has emerged in the NY area recently: Magic: 1995

    THE RULES:

    Your deck must be at least 60 cards, with a 15 card sideboard.

    Only spells crafted from Alpha to Ice Age are legal.

    You shall duel with "modern rules" with respect to our wish to reinstate "mana burn" and "damage stacking".

    (Tapped blockers will deal damage, tapped Winter Orbs and Howling Mines will be deactivated.)

    The mighty Chaos Orb shall read as follows:

    1, Tap: Choose a nontoken permanent on the battlefield. If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot.
    If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, and touches the chosen permanent, destroy that permanent. Then destroy Chaos Orb.

    And Aladdin's Lamp shall cost a total of 10 mana.

    THE RESTRICTED LIST:

    You may only have ONE copy of the following spell in your dueler's deck:

    Ancestral Recall
    Balance
    Black Lotus
    Black Vise
    Braingeyser
    Channel
    Chaos Orb
    Demonic Tutor
    Ivory Tower
    Library of Alexandria
    Mana Drain
    Maze of Ith
    Mind Twist
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Jet
    Mox Pearl
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Sapphire
    Power Artifact
    Recall
    Regrowth
    Sol Ring
    Time Walk
    Timetwister
    Wheel of Fortune
    Zuran Orb

    THE LIMITED LIST:

    You may TWO copies of the following spells in your duel's deck:

    Fastbond
    Fork
    Hymn To Tourach
    Jester's Cap
    Mirror Universe
    Mishra's Workshop
    Necropotence
    Strip Mine
    Time Vault

    THE BANNED LIST:

    You may not have any copies of the following spells in your library:

    All Ante Cards
    Shahrazad
    Additional Reading:

    Old-School at Eternal Central

    Old School - Europe: Facebook Page

    Old School - Europe: YouTube Channel

    93/94 Discussion Group

    East Coast 93/94 Discussion and Marketplace

    Old School '93-'94 - Europe: Facebook Group

    Midwest USA 93/94 Old School Magic

    Magic '95 Homepage

    Danny Friedman's Vintage & Old School Blog
    Last edited by H; 12-22-2015 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Added East Coast Facebook Group...
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  2. #2
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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Any idea why Chaos Orb was nerfed? It is already restricted to one copy. Card is bad if you have to specify a target and then hit said target, no?

    I have never gotten to play with the card, so perhaps I am misjudging how easy it is to hit a specific target from a foot off the table with at least one full rotation...



    Edit - A friend said it may have to do with Guardian Beast allowing a player to re-use Chaos Orb...

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Any idea why Chaos Orb was nerfed? It is already restricted to one copy. Card is bad if you have to specify a target and then hit said target, no?

    I have never gotten to play with the card, so perhaps I am misjudging how easy it is to hit a specific target from a foot off the table with at least one full rotation...



    Edit - A friend said it may have to do with Guardian Beast allowing a player to re-use Chaos Orb...
    I think it is that, plus the old way used to have people playing with all sorts of bizarre board lay-outs, with all their important cards circling their Library or everything super spread apart just to avoid a blow-out from the Orb.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  4. #4

    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    You can't enforce the timing. The person announces chao orb and there's nothing that says you can move all your permanents all over the fucking table. It just gets stupid. Unconditional removal for 2+1 is actually pretty insane. Now ... I couldn't hit water with a fucking oar at the last Old School and it ended up being a total waste of time. But if you are accurate with it it's an auto include and a very very good card even with the errata.

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    You can't enforce the timing. The person announces chao orb and there's nothing that says you can move all your permanents all over the fucking table. It just gets stupid. Unconditional removal for 2+1 is actually pretty insane. Now ... I couldn't hit water with a fucking oar at the last Old School and it ended up being a total waste of time. But if you are accurate with it it's an auto include and a very very good card even with the errata.
    I have been lead to believe that once upon a time, you couldn't actually do that:

    You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put into play, but not after. (Snark 1993/11/01)
    In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent cannot read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice. (Aahz 1994/12/03)
    From Crystal Keep.

    Still, it's dumb and the errata makes a lot of sense.

    I like the idea of adding Ice Age, but the idea of allowing two-ofs is odd and I feel it doesn't jive with the idea of historical Magic (I don't think there was ever a time where a format only allowed 2-ofs).
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Eudemonia in California has rung a few events with a slight modification to the 93/94 rules (also ran by JACO and Nedleeds at Eternal Weekend): Old-School Magic
    To be clear, the event we ran at Eternal Weekend 2014 used the Eternal Central recommended Banned & Restricted List, which is different than the Eudo and European lists. Ours allows Fallen Empires (printed towards end of 1994), and does NOT restrict the following cards that some other lists do:
    Black Vise
    Fork
    Hymn to Tourach
    Mana Vault
    Mirror Universe
    Mishra's Workshop
    Power Artifact
    Shahrazad
    Strip Mine

    We believe in allowing for more deck innovation rather than less, and frankly not much is very busted. Each of these allow for a far wider range of decks to be played in strategies that otherwise wouldn't exist, or be remotely competitive if those individual cards were restricted. Strip Mine may at first glance look incorrect, but after almost a couple years of testing, I can reaffirm that with a restricted Strip Mine the 3-5C 'Power Blue' decks are usually beyond the power level of anything else. But opening up Strip Mine, Workshop, and some of the other more combo-ey cards levels the playing field a bit, to allow for combo decks and actual aggro and aggro-control decks to compete (whereas the 2 latter aren't really a contender without Strip Mine, which functions essentially as Wasteland in this format).

    You can find the EC recommended Banned & Restricted list for 93/94 Magic in the right hand sidebar here, along with a handful of Old School articles by myself and others.
    Old School Magic on Eternal Central

    This is the most fun I've had playing Magic in the past few years, hands down. Also, if you can master flipping Chaos Orb, it is probably the second best restricted card in the format (behind Mind Twist), because it can go in any deck, and serves as efficient removal for anything. My vote for the best unrestricted card would probably go to Disenchant, and the most underutilized card is probably Sylvan Library.
    Find me on Twitter at @JMJACO and @EternalCentral. If you have an interest in Vintage Eldrazi, check out my book Eldrazi Meditations.

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    I apologize, I missed that there was a separate list for that event, I'll change that in the first post.

    I did add a link to the Eternal Central Old School page at the bottom before, but always good to have another.

    I definitely agree though, more decks should be running Sylvan Library. Also, I think there is a horribly broken card that is completely unrestricted in the format that allows Ice Age, but it could be that there is no combo deck that can really use it...
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  8. #8

    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I have been lead to believe that once upon a time, you couldn't actually do that:



    From Crystal Keep.

    Still, it's dumb and the errata makes a lot of sense.

    I like the idea of adding Ice Age, but the idea of allowing two-ofs is odd and I feel it doesn't jive with the idea of historical Magic (I don't think there was ever a time where a format only allowed 2-ofs).
    " put into play, " ... let me know how that works out. I'm thinking of countering your orb while it's being cast and as part of how I got in the tank I spread my possessions across the table. The wording the 94 guys, Eudo, and EternalCentral have put forward are the best compromise for keeping the orb around but making it sane in my opinion. Again I couldn't hit a god damn mule with mine from an inch away from ass so I'm truly impartial.

    I've talked at length about Strip Mine and feel like it's simply not old school magic without it (or the Vise). It functions much like Wasteland does in modern vintage, not being able to stand up a fetchland arguably increases its power level but the format as a whole is slower so I think it balances out. Without Strip Mine and Vise there is effectively no reason to play anything other than blue. There are also strong arguments that Mishra's Factory is too powerful and ubiquitous in 1 Strip Mine rule sets. Strip Mine is a natural predator. There's a little bit of recursion, 1 Regrowth, Recall, maybe Cane or Twister to get Strips back but nothing like Loam or Crucible exists.

    Some of my victims at Philly might disagree that getting Stripped, Sunkholed, and having a turn 2 Nether Void cave in their skull isn't fun but Magic is really a zero sum fun game, I simply sucked up all the fun and had it myself.


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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    I'd play this format for the rest of my life, if only:
    - there'd be actually anyone to play it with
    - Power Sink worked

    Also, I started in 1996, so ABU-Alliances would be my format of choice. With all the good stuff lands from Alliances - oh hai "fetchland" prototype -, and the mana fixation of painlands (for balance reasons I'd allow the APO cycle, it's not like the Veldt and stuff has any meaning in a game of Magic), four Strip Mines are a must, of course.

    Not that it matters. There are about two or three ppl in my area who'd play this/whom with I'd play this, and one of them is solely interested in Legacy, while the other one is uninterested in wasting money.

    gl, hf anyone playing this format, I guess it's a blast.

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    I've talked at length about Strip Mine and feel like it's simply not old school magic without it (or the Vise). It functions much like Wasteland does in modern vintage, not being able to stand up a fetchland arguably increases its power level but the format as a whole is slower so I think it balances out. Without Strip Mine and Vise there is effectively no reason to play anything other than blue. There are also strong arguments that Mishra's Factory is too powerful and ubiquitous in 1 Strip Mine rule sets. Strip Mine is a natural predator. There's a little bit of recursion, 1 Regrowth, Recall, maybe Cane or Twister to get Strips back but nothing like Loam or Crucible exists.
    I think the combination of the two (Vise and Mine) is potentially unbalanced, but probably mostly fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    I'd play this format for the rest of my life, if only:
    - there'd be actually anyone to play it with
    - Power Sink worked

    Also, I started in 1996, so ABU-Alliances would be my format of choice. With all the good stuff lands from Alliances - oh hai "fetchland" prototype -, and the mana fixation of painlands (for balance reasons I'd allow the APO cycle, it's not like the Veldt and stuff has any meaning in a game of Magic), four Strip Mines are a must, of course.

    Not that it matters. There are about two or three ppl in my area who'd play this/whom with I'd play this, and one of them is solely interested in Legacy, while the other one is uninterested in wasting money.

    gl, hf anyone playing this format, I guess it's a blast.
    Well, Power Sink does still work...sort of...

    I have essentially the same problem. My local group was interested in Vintage...for a bit. It's dropped off now, so I know it will be almost impossible to get them to play this, but I'm still interested in the format none-the-less.
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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    I'd play this format for the rest of my life, if only Power Sink worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, Power Sink does still work...sort of...
    I do not understand. Can you explain?

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I do not understand. Can you explain?
    I wasn't clear... With current rules, Power Sink doesn't work as it worked back in the day when it was an interrupt that drawn the mana of pool. Today you may respond to PS with an kind of instants, then tap the lands and empty the pool. With pre-6th rules - and correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe even 5th Ed. rules with their mana sources and such worked similarly to nowadays rules -, Power Sink resolved first (interrupt) and then it was a bit impossible to play instants, due to the tapped out lands and emptied mana pool.
    Not that it's that crucial. There are other troubles with the format, just that it was the first one that popped up on my mind. Cards availability, playgroups unavailability, fragmented communities, etc., all these factors work against the format. But who knows, maybe it's the next EDH?

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    I think card availability is a huge issue and that will ensure that this format forever stays fringe. Hell, it's hard enough to get people to play Vintage, let alone a format that requires both Power and extremely fringe (and old, reserve list) cards. I mean, honestly, how many people are there who have playsets of random Legends cards? I can't imagine the number is very high (I, for one, don't even have a playset of most Legends stuff), let alone many of those people in one geographic area.

    It's kind of funny that this format not only uses cards from way-back-when, but the "problems" playing these cards now are almost identical to the problems we had back then, hard to find cards, hard to find opponents, etc, at least to some extent. Funny how everything kind of cycles like that, but that's part of what makes this an interesting format, at least to me.

    The Power Sink thing is an unfortunate side-effect to actually using the Stack, but I still think that Power Sink is still a pretty good card, because in a time where there is no Force of Will, being able to tap your opponent out is pretty critical.
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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Yes H, you're right.
    Thing is, we'Re not children anymore, so the time we may spend on "dead" format is limited...

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Yes H, you're right.
    Thing is, we'Re not children anymore, so the time we may spend on "dead" format is limited...
    Definitely true. That's why I now just play Legacy and try to fit in some Vintage when I can. I don't even have time to play EDH anymore.

    I am hoping to make it to Eternal Weekend this year and so I am hoping that there might be an Old School event there again...
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  16. #16

    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Exclusivity is what makes it awesome. If you don't have the cards or money to buy them then you can't play. The decks look awesome. The card pool makes strange old cards useful (I couldn't deal with Wall of Heat). There are no children or new comers.

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    (I couldn't deal with Wall of Heat).


    Do you have any photos from those matches? Like you said... the decks look awesome.

    How do powerless decks stack up in the format?
    Is there a red deck that hates on expensive cards?

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post


    Do you have any photos from those matches? Like you said... the decks look awesome.

    How do powerless decks stack up in the format?
    Is there a red deck that hates on expensive cards?
    Cheapest viable unpowered deck is White Weenie.
    Essentially:
    4 Tundra Wolves
    4 Savannah Lions
    4 White Knight
    3 Benalish Hero
    2 Serra Angel
    2 Preacher

    ENCHANTMENTS (7)
    4 Crusade
    3 Land Tax

    SORCERIES (4)
    3 Armageddon
    1 Balance

    INSTANTS (8)
    4 Disenchant
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    ARTIFACTS (5)
    2 City in a Bottle
    1 Jalum Tome
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Sol Ring

    LANDS (17)
    15 Plains
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Maze of Ith

    That is a standard core, but you tune it to your metagame (AKA City in a Bottle). It can have difficultly versus fully powered decks but has put up decent results in the past.

    Burn decks all splash blue, so they have a pretty big leg up. That said, they are linear and while they are viable, they really don't represent the sort of play experience most people aim for with this format. This one placed 3rd in a small event:


    I've seen similar things before, but what I really want to see if a 4x Gauntlet deck where people power out Fireball and Shivans using Gauntlet and Candelabra. You could fill some of the dead space with either a small Goblin's core (to take advantage of the +1/+!1) or go for the more powerful suite of 4x Bolt and 4x Chain Lightning with a blue splash for power (Wheel effects included).

    Personally, the two best decks to play in M94 are The Deck or "Project M", aka Guardian Beast bullshit. The Blue Mage in everyone loves the grindy play you get from The Desk and Project M allows you to Tinker and one-sided Nev Disc... so damn good.

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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Exclusivity is what makes it awesome.
    Oh so, I never knew it's another "pimp my bithc" fromat, I thought that it's about nostalgia and amazing old art; I stand corrected. But nevermind, even thought I'm not into spending money on cardboard luxury, the decks still look nice.

    What I'd love to build is GW Geddon

    4 Elves
    4 Lions
    4 Elf Archers
    4 Dervish
    4 Erhnam
    2 Serra

    4 StP
    3 Geddon
    3 Disenchant
    3 Land Tax
    2 S. Library
    1 Slo Ring
    1 green Mox
    1 wite Mox

    lands

  20. #20
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    Re: [Format] Old-School Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Oh so, I never knew it's another "pimp my bithc" fromat, I thought that it's about nostalgia and amazing old art; I stand corrected. But nevermind, even thought I'm not into spending money on cardboard luxury, the decks still look nice.
    I doesn't "have to be" a "pimp format" but like any other, people's feelings on ascetics vary widely, so to each their own.

    Unfortunately, I will always have white-boarder Power, since I couldn't afford Beta years ago and I certainly can't now, so there is certainly a limit.

    Even so, I am trying to pick up some FBB stuff, since the nostalgia factor is still real high in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    What I'd love to build is GW Geddon

    4 Elves
    4 Lions
    4 Elf Archers
    4 Dervish
    4 Erhnam
    2 Serra

    4 StP
    3 Geddon
    3 Disenchant
    3 Land Tax
    2 S. Library
    1 Slo Ring
    1 green Mox
    1 wite Mox

    lands
    Actually, JACO ran a very similar deck recently:

    http://www.eternalcentral.com/9394bantamgeddon/

    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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