Additional costs (like Buyback or Kicker) can still be paid from traditional mana sources, right?Originally Posted by Finn
I'm mostly thinking about Clockspinning, not that I think it breaks the card... just that it seems like a fun interaction.
Finn, are you talking like High Tide storm? Or ANT storm? Or something outside those two?
@buyback/kicker costs: I think this is a yes. Though, I am not as up-to-date as I once was on this stuff.
@what I'm working on:
Well, here is the issue: I followed the deck into two directions to see what it would look like, and I am not really happy with either. My feeling atm is that if my take on As Foretold is going to work, the deck will have elements of both of these. But to get it right requires playtesting. You know...investment of time and energy.
4 As Foretold
4 Breakthrough
4 Brainstorm
4 Faithless Looting
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
2 Past in Flames
3 Wheel of Fate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
2 Empty the Warrens
2 Fireblast
17 lands
OK, here is the other one.
3 Greater Gargadon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 As Foretold
4 Breakthrough
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Restore Balance
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Faithless Looting
4 The Rack
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Chromatic Star
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Diamond
...sorry, incomplete post. But you have the idea.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Well, Ancestral Vision is a legitimate card even if only suspended. We found that a T1 suspended vision led to a game-closing advantage if we could figure out a way to Restore Balance T3 empty-handed. I think both suspend cards are very powerful, but they should not be the focus of the deck. Yes, you have mana for days as soon as AF is online. Yet I have not found a way to leverage this substantially.
Enlightened Tutor is a great tool to get AF, and that enables a toolbox. We had a singleton Crucible of Worlds which was great, and we thought about a Rest in Piece in the maindeck as well. One could go that route even further by playing more RiP, Helm of Obedience, Energy Field...
Additional costs are a yes. It's why Chant is so effective on a Sceptre.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
How about this thing in a Stompy list? Whenever I see 2X as the mana cost, the gears start turning for me and my Ancient Tombs.
4 Misthollow Griffin
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Serendib Efreet
2 Sea Drake
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Chrome Mox
3 As Foretold
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Back to Basics
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
19 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
5 Snow-Covered Island
6 Island
Replaced Trinishpere with Arcane Lab as Trinisphere is a non-bo. Basically you want to As Foretold a Visions, or get out an As Foretold under the B2B.
Totes. But, I don't think that Restore Balace is anywhere near as good as Vision, which is more like what I was talking about. Since Vision does a good job in a diggy-control deck even without the combo, I think 4 Vision + 4 As Foretold is a great place to start.
I tend to think Stompy is all about establishing a strong board presence quickly, and As Foretold doesn't do that.
I think you start with 4x Noble Hierarch or DRS, 4x As Foretold, and 4x Ancestral Vision. Maybe something like:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Shardless Agent
4x As Foretold
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Fatal Push
4x Force of Will
4x Wasteland
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Verdant Catacombs
3x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Island
1x Swamp
Another option would be to go "all-in" on mana rocks and then just use your lands to lock down their mana.
4x Aether Vial
4x As Foretold
4x Rishadan Port
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Wasteland
+Eldrazi and 2 mana lands, some blue sources and some draw spells. Think of it kind of like goblins, but a little slower, with counterspells, more draw, and bigger duders, + more mana denial.
I'm interested. How does this deck win the game?
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I would want some jace in here since he can come down for free. Maybe something else as well that has a big payoff. Otherwise what does this do that shardless can't?
-rob
Hmmm. Pull the Ponder's for Tarmogoyfs and the Ghost Quarters for Jace's? Maybe mana dorks 7-8 for Leovold's?
I'd almost be tempted to ADD more mana dorks and add some Leovolds. 3cc-the deck.
If you go this way, I'd consider 4x Sphere of Resistance and 2x Thorn of Amethyst. You're going to have to pay for the additional costs too, but that's going to much more painful for your opponent.
3x Lodestone Golem as wincon ? I'm not sure you need Vial. I'd rather see Enlightened Tutor for consistency. 1-2x Crucible ?
I'd maybe try going a UWB Landstill-esque route, freeing up mana to activate all these sweet manlands. Also, bring on the free Teferi's Responses.
Man, how reckless would it be to just jam a few copies in Show and Tell and see what happens?
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