Several reasons actually. Primarily because Preacher runs off of white mana not Islands. With all of my removal being White, them running a very fast deck with Counter magic and Wastelands I want to be able to get the basic Plains in play as fast as possable and I need cards that are going to work with White Mana. Secondly yes Preacher does not get Krosan Gripped and since they run zero actual creature kill in Merfolk they have very few answers for him. Third is because he is far less of a mana investment, 3 mana once and he is online. I've tested Shackles and it's a turn slower because you are down an additional two mana the turn after you cast it plus Merfolk Reejery can untap it giving them thier creature back for one turn whitch can be enough to kill you. If they untap Preacher you meerly tap it again and say "ok?". Or atleast thats what I did the last time my opponent tried it on me.Originally Posted by Shawn
Haven't tested him enough to tell you what match ups he is really relevent in and where you should leave him in the SB. I kinda just make that judgement call on fly when side boarding. I did bring him versus dreadstill in the top 8 of the 60 man prelim event at gencon and when I dropped him my opponent had boarded out all his answers that could have dealt with it and it was pretty game breaking.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
@Shugyosha:
Tnx, that list looks like something to work with :D; i have some question though:
Why the stone? Disk seems stronger since it lets you Walkers live and costs less mana
2 FoF and 2 Jace seem a lot of draw together with the Standstill, is it fine or too much sometimes?
No love for Wrath of God?
I'll update my list after i do some testing, bt tnx already, guess that helped me^^
Just one thing, does anyone have a list with Lightning Helix?
Is seems like a real gamewinner in my meta =).
2 Eternal Dragon
1 Academy Ruins
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
3 Plains
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Your argument for Disk is true but Stone on the other hand has the merit to kill planeswalkers (UWb has Vindicates for them). Walkers turn up in various decks here nowadays and other LS decks of course. With 6 Walkers I never had the problem with Stone or I had enough time to put a fate counter on it. The whole fate counter thing is also really good in the lategame but comes up rarely I admit.
Yeah FoF is nuts or shitty only, never in between or constant so that's why I might me going back to snares as I said earlier (-2 FoF -1 CSpell +3 Snares). Jace on the other hand is very good in a build with 6 Swords effects and usually draws a shitton of cards.
Wrath would be another cmc 4 card and it wasn't good against tribal decks (with mana denial) for me. A teammate plays the list with 2 Wrath however. I would rather maindeck Clasms or Firespout (there aren't many flyers to worry about).
I ran Fire/Ice in the beginning but cut it as it was clearly the worst card. Helix might be better but not pitchable and is difficult to cast early on when you want it but also want to fetch a stable manabase with UU and WW for CSpell and Elspeth/Humility.
TS Crew
I definitely like the Preacher tech Geoff and it seemed to work for you rather well in your tournament experiences.
I got a chance to test preacher myself and I ended up boarding him in a good portion of my matches. I definitely have been impressed with him so far. He's pretty reliable especially when your other removal spells aren't taking care of business.
Also, Congrats on your finishes Geoff!
Team Hammafist!
Here's a question:
Why do people run 1 Dust Bowl over Wasteland?
Because Dust Bowl can turn your "extra" lands into Wastelands.
Is it overkill to run a Dust Bowl with, say, 2-3 Wasteland?
I really dislike the dustbowl since it's a liability in standstill-wars against say, merfolk, or another landstill deck since 1 well-aimed wasteland will just rape all the LD potential your deck had. But alot of people seem to like it so who am I to comment?
You could replace a wasteland with a dustbowl though, but IMO wasting landdrops without running crucible isn't a very good idea but meh :/
Hello friend.
Haha, I recently redid my mana base and went from Dust Bowl --> 2x Wasteland (playing around currently to make room for a third). I agree, in the mirror /// decks with Wasteland, it sometimes becomes very difficult to win the LD war. Merfolk definitely stands out, as unfavorable as it is having playing against Mutavaults under a Standstill.
How ur manabase looks like if ur playing with 2 Vindicate and SB 1 Extirpate +3 Plague?
4 Tundra
1 USea (or better 2?)
1 Scrub
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins
3 Mishras (i dont know why only 3, why 4th is gone?)
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp (shouldnt this the 4th mishra or 3rd wasteland?)
2 Wasteland
1 Eternal Dragon
Pretty much, I run 3/3 Strand and Delta for more consistency fetch-wise though. The basic swamp there is great in order to dodge Moon effects, so I believe it is correct to add it there.
// Lands
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
2 [U] Plains (3)
2 [MI] Island (2)
2 [U] Volcanic Island
2 [TE] Wasteland
4 [R] Tundra
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [R] Plateau
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
// Spells
3 [B] Counterspell
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
3 [B] Wrath of God
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [R] Nevinyrral's Disk
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 [OD] Standstill
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
4 [U] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
SB: 2 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [MOR] Negate
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
I may try adding 3 Cunning Wish since without Vindicate (which the normal UWx lists run), I feel he deck loses a bit of flexibility. However, Ajani is insane.
If I do add Wishes (which is difficult because of space), my board would end up being...
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Return to Dust / Dismatling Blow
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Counterspell / Negate
4 Path to Exile
3 Pyroblast
2 Decree of Justice
2 Crucible of Worlds
If I do see a lot of aggro in my meta and if I ever play this, I might try and fit 3 Firespout and some Lightning Helix in or something.
My actual build, which i'm going to play in Milano:
//Lands
4x tundra
4x island
2x plains
4x flooded strand
2x polluted delta
4x mishra's factory
1x dustbowl
1x underground sea
1x scrubland
//Blue spells
4x brainstorm
3x spell snare
2x counterspell
2x cunning wish
4x standstill
4x force of will
//White spells
4x swords to plowshares
2x path to exile
2x wrath of god
1x decree of justice
1x humility
2x elspeth, knight errant
//Artifacts
3x engineered explosives
2x sensei's divining top
1x crucible of worlds
//Sideboard
3x blue elemental blast
3x counterbalance
1x path to exile
1x pulse of the fields
1x enlightened tutor
2x ray of distortion
1x engineered plague (only good vs elves / goblins together with humility, so 1 as tutor-target)
3x relic of progenitus
I know, that i do not have no fact or fiction, which can be a bomb but which are, in my opinion in the actual meta far too slow (considering zoo / merfolk...)
Further i don't know yet, wether i'll play the 2 Paths or add 2 Vindicates instead of them.
Greetz from Germany,
Marius Hausmann
I think fof is actually a bomb in an aggro meta, due to landstill having tons of board control elements, and I think fof is superior to top in an aggro meta because you do want the answers, and lots of answer all at once, so card advantage is more important than card quality. I'd go -1 top -1 standstill (not if the meta is very aggroish) to find room for 2 fof's.I know, that i do not have no fact or fiction, which can be a bomb but which are, in my opinion in the actual meta far too slow (considering zoo / merfolk...)
Maybe you should play vindicate in the place of wrath, ihmo.Further i don't know yet, wether i'll play the 2 Paths or add 2 Vindicates instead of themRegarding the sb, i don't like so much beb (negate is more versatile), and I'm asking how do you feel with counterbalance. I mean, to actually stop combo you'll need at least 3 tops md and 4 cb SB. Also, your list doesn't support the curve, lacks of cc2 (to support this lack, when I played cb I also played 3-4 MM and 2-3 runed halo SB). Ihmo it doesn't fit very well in your deck. I also do wonder why 2 disenchant effect with flashback (so 4 total) in the sb. Afraid of something? Engineered plague is not only good vs tribal (it is not good: it's nuts!), but also against ichorid (horror and illusion mainly) and vs random burn which runs elemental.
I hope you'll have a good time in Milano. I can't attend the tournament because of an exam. Sigh.
First of all: NOTHING beats Top - if i played a mirror, i would force an opponents top.
-1 Island +1 academy ruins allows the recursion, i know that, but make the solid manabase worse (only 14 blue sources then)
Wrath of God is again a Card i would never cut. It has cc4, evades C-balance, is a solution for EVERY creature (even Progenitus) and make often the necessary card-advantage. Another point is, that you need a board-sweeper against Goblins, Elves and other swarm-decks like white weenie, where vindicate does not enough. One more Problem with Vindicate is the need of black mana, which you often don't want to fetch (basic lands are tech...)
Counterbalance is the best answer to combo decks (tested it quite much), ecspecially with boarding the enlightened tutor too, which can fetch the missing lock-piece.
CC2 is low, you are right there, but against TES it's often even better to have a land on top of the library.
Blue Elemental Blast is in against Goblins / Zoo and does a great Job (for what you want to play negate)
Greetz, Marius
I've tested top long enough to know it's a good card, but that doesn't mean it's by all means the best card in every strategy and in every meta. Top is nuts against lots of deck, but if you are going in a really aggroish meta, CQ is maybe not sufficient. I'd rather have a singleton top to control the lategame, and 4 solid standstill with 1-2 fof's to control the midgame. (BTW, forcing an opponent top is sometimes a stupid thing, since most lists run at least 2, and academy ruins will bring it back however. The thing is different if we're talking of a t1 top and you don't have one in hand.)
@academy ruins: i really don't think cutting 1 island would devastate your manabase. With ruins you have only 6 nonbasics (you can easily cut a mishra if you want to remain 5 nonbasics), plus you have 6 fetches to access the right mana, plus your deck basically relies on 2 colours, the 3rd being a little splash, so I really don't see the problem in piloting a bicolour deck with "only" 14 blue mana fonts. For the sake of the deck, you could as well remove black and use red for firespout and not noticing the difference (also, gives access to reb in the sb). However, that -1 island +1 ruins would only improve you board control, without negative effects on the manabase. If you feel you need that 4th island, better cut 1 mishra (ruins is more important than the 4th mishra).
@wrath: nothing to say, if there is plenty of gobbos and weenies, than it's correct. Against merfolks and elves, all you need is to keep lords off the table and a well timed plague/firespout (red is also a good colour) for a wrath effect.
@beb: i don't want to board that thing against gobbos or zoo. Better 3 solid plague for the first (which turn handy for any other tribals, and ichorid, and sometimes burn), and wish for pulse in the case of zoo. And I don't obviously wanna play negate for these MU's.
I use 2 Top and 1 Fact now, I'm considering adding another FoF but I don't think I'd take out a Top; they're just too good.
I have to agree that generally, against aggro deck, you would much rather have card advantage over card quality (since your deck is packed with about 12 removal+)
That said, a turn 1 Sensei'S divining top is ALWAYS a good play (unless maybe against deck with Daze). If possible, playing a 2-2 split of FOF and TOp can be a good idea. That's what I do.
failed 2-3-1 today
G1: Got blown out by countertop with gaddock teeg and rhox war monks/trygon predators/vendilion cliques to hit my vindicate
G2: Got stuck on lands vs merfolk twice
G3: Raped zoo, Ajani MVP
G4: Raped Dragon Stompy, Preacher MVP
G5: Got blown out against zoo, later he told me he played 21 burn spells
G6: 1-1 vs aggro-loam, Preacher MVP again
Verdict: Should have mulled against merfolk, shouldn't have boarded out counterspells vs the 2nd zoo player and I have no idea what I could have done to win the countertop match. In game 2 he played a V. Clique, saw 2x decree of justice in my hand, loses clique, plays gaddock, swings with gaddock while I have 5 mana and says 'hmmm or not' and turns him back, he said he 'was still touching it' which he wasn't but he insisted that he was, so in the end I gave in and he got to keep his teeg.
Aggro-loam wasn't as bad a matchup as I thought it would be.
Overall it wasn't a very good day, but meh it's the 2nd time I brought this deck to a real tourney and I have made some bad calls such as not mulling a 1-lander vs merfolk because I had 3 plows.
Hello friend.
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