[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

[Dr. DOOM]

Just as a side note: You can't stifle ESG because it's a mana ability.

Oh flip! FAIL, how stupid of me. I'll apologize to that guy next time I see him. Even more reason for me to play spell pierce in the board. Well since I know what makes his deck tick now, it won't ever happen again anyway.

[royal]

Hi,

what do you think about playing two Trygon Predators main? They could make a lot of our matchups much better: Enchantress, Stax, Thopter Foundry, Merfolk/ Goblins (Aether Vial) and of course every deck that runs Counterbalance.
It's one of my favourite sideboard cards and by putting it in the mainboard i would also get some more free Slots in my SB.

[Plague Sliver]

@royal: I would advocate running Explosives, Grip or Vial before considering Predator. Predator is quite slow to get online and those other cards help in other situations.

And of course, the million dollar question is: can you show us your build that contains 2 Predators main? I'm curious where you would find the room for it.

[royal]

Hey,

here it is:

4 Tombstalker
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Snuff Out
3 Engineered Explosives

4 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

I´ve been quite successful with a similar list (Sinkhole instead of Hymn) on the last tournament i´ve played with it (4th of 31) and adding the Predators was the next logical step for me because they have been awesome against every match i boarded them in (and that was 3 of 5 games). Perhaps it´s a meta decision (dunno how to call it, hope you understand what i mean^^) but nevertheless i want to hear what you guys think about it.

[keys]

Is EE played over Maelstrom Pulse because it's more likely a 2 for 1? Pulse just seems so much more flexible and resilient. Stifle, Grip, and Pridemage can all ruin EE's day. Pulse also targets a lot of problematic permanents that EE doesn't: Jace, Humility, Vengevines, opposing Tombstalkers... and they both kill mass tokens.

Has this been tested to hell? It's probably close, but I'm curious why EE has become the secondary removal of choice.

[naarou]

Most people play EE to make your goyfs bigger.

[nitewolf9]

EE is better vs Zoo and Merfolk, that's why it is played over pulse.

[Plague Sliver]

Hey,

here it is:

4 Tombstalker
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Snuff Out
3 Engineered Explosives

4 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

I´ve been quite successful with a similar list (Sinkhole instead of Hymn) on the last tournament i´ve played with it (4th of 31) and adding the Predators was the next logical step for me because they have been awesome against every match i boarded them in (and that was 3 of 5 games). Perhaps it´s a meta decision (dunno how to call it, hope you understand what i mean^^) but nevertheless i want to hear what you guys think about it.

Solid list. I think it is something I will consider -- to maindeck Predators and free up some sideboard slots. I was running Clique in the past but they weren't as good as I'd hoped.

I will experiment between Pulse and Predator maindeck. I'm not going to get rid of maindeck Explosives, but Pulse may be a good complementary piece in Game 1.

[Dr. DOOM]

Hi,

what do you think about playing two Trygon Predators main? They could make a lot of our matchups much better: Enchantress, Stax, Thopter Foundry, Merfolk/ Goblins (Aether Vial) and of course every deck that runs Counterbalance.
It's one of my favourite sideboard cards and by putting it in the mainboard i would also get some more free Slots in my SB.

Enchantress is a very rare/not present encounter in my meta, Stax is like the random deck in every tournament in my meta, What the hell is Thopter Foundry? I prefer to remove counterbalance with daze/fow/kozilek's inquisition. I agree that Predator is a bomb against counterbalance.

@royal: I would advocate running Explosives, Grip or Vial before considering Predator. Predator is quite slow to get online and those other cards help in other situations.

And of course, the million dollar question is: can you show us your build that contains 2 Predators main? I'm curious where you would find the room for it.

Running Vial? That must be a typing error, lol. I agree with you on the Predator. Running 2 of them main is easy. Take any build with 1 Clique and 4 stalker, remove 1 clique and 1 stalker, 2 predator in. I wouldn't do it instead of explosives but in addition to explosives. But my metagame is not asking for it so it would be overkill against artifacts and enchantments.

[nedleeds]

For those of you in goblin soaked metas what do you do. FoW and 3 Snuff Out seem like poor answers to the ever present turn 1 lackey.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

For those of you in goblin soaked metas what do you do. FoW and 3 Snuff Out seem like poor answers to the ever present turn 1 lackey.

There's also Stifle. And Daze and EE if you didn't go second. I think it's enough for to deal with Lackey fairly consistently.

[nitewolf9]

I almost never lose to goblins with this deck. Also, a couple of Ghastly Demises out of the sideboard help alot. They are also very solid vs Merfolk and Zoo.

[Plague Sliver]

Enchantress is a very rare/not present encounter in my meta, Stax is like the random deck in every tournament in my meta, What the hell is Thopter Foundry? I prefer to remove counterbalance with daze/fow/kozilek's inquisition. I agree that Predator is a bomb against counterbalance.





Running Vial? That must be a typing error, lol. I agree with you on the Predator. Running 2 of them main is easy. Take any build with 1 Clique and 4 stalker, remove 1 clique and 1 stalker, 2 predator in. I wouldn't do it instead of explosives but in addition to explosives. But my metagame is not asking for it so it would be overkill against artifacts and enchantments.

Whoops. I meant to say Pithing Needle, somehow that came out as "Vial". Hmm.

I agree with you, though. It's not a great idea to over-stretch maindeck against a general field. Predator provides no clock, just utility. That's why I'm thinking Pulse or Hymn-Hymn-I-Win as nitewolf suggested. You don't want dead cards Game 1.

[Dr. DOOM]

That's why I'm thinking Pulse or Hymn-Hymn-I-Win as nitewolf suggested. You don't want dead cards Game 1.

With three explosives main, Hymn would be the better choice over Pulse if you don't want dead cards because it helps you negate your opponent's gameplan from turn 2 onwards. Late game you can choose not to draw them if your opponent is in topdeck mode (brainstorm, ponder) At that point you want counterspells and removal and switch to reactive playing. Hymn enables you to be the agressive player and that's what this deck needs. If you're lucky Hymn can enable an early Goyf.

Also, Hymn can protect your creatures before you cast them by removing answers to your creatures. Again you negate your opponent's strategy here. If you haven't played a Goyf or Stalker yet, your opponent's removal will still be in his hand waiting for your critters. Pulse won't help against that.

In the first game, Hymn is also better because it reveals cards from your opponent's hand you may not have seen played otherwise, showing you the right direction for sideboarding in the second game.

With pulse, you have to wait for your opponent to cast a permanent first and you can use Pulse turn 3 at it's earliest. Too my taste that's way too reactive for Team America.

[Plague Sliver]

Dr. DOOM --

I'll definitely be giving the 3x Hymn package a try, T2 Hymn with Force/Daze backup is just awesome. And it's a little bit of +1 card advantage.

I was wanting to find a use for my Pulses, but that's no excuse for trying to squeeze sub-standard cards in.

For nostalgia's sake, I re-read the first 10 pages of the thread. Funny how back then the consensus was that Sinkhole >>>>> Hymn. Of course it was a different time back then. Just goes to show how decks evolve and even come back full circle.

At time of inception, Needle was also considered in place of Stifle but rejected. However, I am still in favor of running 2x of them in the sideboard to address Vial, Maze, Jace and other misc. stuff.

[from Cairo]

Royal would you be able to post an SB to the list you gave. It looks really good, wondering what your using the 15 spots to supplement though. I assume some mix of: more counter magic, yard hate, agro hate and artifact/enchantment destruction.

Also can someone elaborate on why Dispel shows up in so many SBs for this deck rather than Spell Pierce. It seems like Vials, Equipment, CB/T, Planeswalkers, Survival of the Fittest, Vedalken Shackles, Exhume/Reanimate/SnT etc, etc are all things that you'd like to have Spell Pierce against. Dispel just seems really narrow. With the deck running Waste, Stifle, and Hymn the ability to keep them off of the X+2 mana seems very doable for the early-mid game. I could very well be missing something though, thus the question.

[naarou]

Dispel hard counters most removal (all of Zoo's, for example) and every other counterspell in the game. For one mana. Spell pierce is amazing, granted, but there will be games where your opponent has 3 lands out with a path in hand.

[from Cairo]

Dispel hard counters most removal (all of Zoo's, for example) and every other counterspell in the game. For one mana. Spell pierce is amazing, granted, but there will be games where your opponent has 3 lands out with a path in hand.

Ok that makes sense as an anti-Zoo card, for whatever reason I was thinking it was being used as anti control/combo.

[nitewolf9]

Ok that makes sense as an anti-Zoo card, for whatever reason I was thinking it was being used as anti control/combo.

It is for precisely this reason. An anti-zoo card that is also versatile enough to come in vs blue decks and some combo decks. It's really good for this deck in particular.

That being said I would really like to try and squeeze spell Pierce into the board somehow, possibly by cutting the yard hate. I'm not sure how much I should be boarding against lands or dredge nowadays, although I suppose yard hate is kind of good vs the vengevnie decks as well. I'll play with it and let you guys know how it goes.

[DerFern]

For nostalgia's sake, I re-read the first 10 pages of the thread. Funny how back then the consensus was that Sinkhole >>>>> Hymn. Of course it was a different time back then. Just goes to show how decks evolve and even come back full circle.

/still plays Sinkholes over Hymn

Anyway, I don´t want to bring that old discussion of Sinhole vs. Hymn back up, but I do have another question.
Did any of you guys consider [card]Vendetta[/card] instead of (or in some kind of a split with) [card]Snuff Out[/card]? There have been so many times where I paid 4 life just to kill a first turn Lackey or even Noble Hierarch. That´s kind of annoying and Vendetta does about the same, at the cost of 1mana. Might be a metagame choice, but if you expect a lot of Zoo, Gobbo and Bant, Vendetta might be better...