[Deck] Goblins

[ScatmanX]

I'm testing that UR version, with just 4 Daze and 3 Brainstorm.
I must say, I do like it a lot.

[AlmostGrown]

I've been thinking about splashing Green in addition to black... Here's my rough draft:


My current Deck:
//Lands 21
5 Snow-Covered Mountains
3 Badlands
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Taiga

//Core 25
-1 Piledriver

//Other 14
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Stingscourger
2 Warren Wierding
2 Goblin Chieftain

SB:
2 Reverent Silence
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
3 Red Elemental Blast

Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm more vulnerable than ever to Wasteland. I'm considering going back down to 1 Rishadan Port for another fetch.

[Pinoy Goblin]

Guys anybody here tested ratchet bomb or nevdisk as an sb? Im fed up on dealing with my Mono R list fighting with eplagues,propaganda,chill,moat,cop R,pro-red creatrures, etched champion,etc.... My 2 boartusk liege sb doesnt stand a chance on creature hate and I need a removal rather than a solution on my Mono R built. Any inputs? Im considering ratchet bomb since my list is in the control side with 4 ports, 4 wasteland and with MWM built.

[GoboLord]

Guys anybody here tested ratchet bomb or nevdisk as an sb? Im fed up on dealing with my Mono R list fighting with eplagues,propaganda,chill,moat,cop R,pro-red creatrures, etched champion,etc.... My 2 boartusk liege sb doesnt stand a chance on creature hate and I need a removal rather than a solution on my Mono R built. Any inputs? Im considering ratchet bomb since my list is in the control side with 4 ports, 4 wasteland and with MWM built.

I think nobody really tested Ratchet Bomb but it sound like the best sollution to the problems you described (at least for MonoR). Ýou should probably think about running mire than 1 solution on these cards. Red Elemental Blast helps not only killing Chill and Propaganda but can also counter their Cantrips, so that they wonb't find those cards easily.

[Dia_Bot]

New part added to the primer:

7. The Goblin Guide: What kind of Goblin-player are you?


Like to hear how you like it.

I very much like it!
Thx for all the effort you put into making such a wonderful primer.

[Vandalize]

I've been thinking about splashing Green in addition to black... Here's my rough draft:


My current Deck:
//Lands 21
5 Snow-Covered Mountains
3 Badlands
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Taiga

//Core 25
-1 Piledriver

//Other 14
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Stingscourger
2 Warren Wierding
2 Goblin Chieftain

SB:
2 Reverent Silence
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
3 Red Elemental Blast

Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm more vulnerable than ever to Wasteland. I'm considering going back down to 1 Rishadan Port for another fetch.

Low land counting and lots of useless goblins. Goblin King just suck, it's bad for the mirror and goblins don't really need Mountainwalk. 2 Tin Street Hooligan MD seems pretty bad too, since your manabase is very fragile. I'd cut a Goblin King and 1 TSH for 2 more lands (maybe the 3rd Port and another fetch). Reverent Silence also sucks, you can replace them easily for Back to Nature (1G is pretty easy to get), the opponent life gain can be pretty relevant.

[Nelis]

Guys anybody here tested ratchet bomb or nevdisk as an sb? Im fed up on dealing with my Mono R list fighting with eplagues,propaganda,chill,moat,cop R,pro-red creatrures, etched champion,etc.... My 2 boartusk liege sb doesnt stand a chance on creature hate and I need a removal rather than a solution on my Mono R built. Any inputs? Im considering ratchet bomb since my list is in the control side with 4 ports, 4 wasteland and with MWM built.

Do you run any Chieftains main? I would try to play a combination of 5 or 6 Chieftain/Liege to battle E plague. I actually play 1 Liege main in addition to 1 Siege-gang Commander and 2 Chieftains. I wouldn't go any other way anymore.

On Ratchet Bomb, I'm wondering when you want to play it. You can't play control with your Ports if you play Ratchet Bomb on turn 2 or 3. So it can go down on turn 4 which means being useful turn 7. I think you're better off just going aggro instead of wasting a turn on Ratchet Bomb. And even if you play it turn 2 I think its only good if you also started off with a Vial otherwise you can't put any pressure on. But by all means try it out.

Also I don't think you can win every fight. I think you have to make a decision which threats you want to fight most. Maybe you should consider splashing green if you have the cards, its mostly troublesome enchantments you listed.

[jrw1985]

Low land counting and lots of useless goblins. Goblin King just suck, it's bad for the mirror and goblins don't really need Mountainwalk. 2 Tin Street Hooligan MD seems pretty bad too, since your manabase is very fragile. I'd cut a Goblin King and 1 TSH for 2 more lands (maybe the 3rd Port and another fetch). Reverent Silence also sucks, you can replace them easily for Back to Nature (1G is pretty easy to get), the opponent life gain can be pretty relevant.

Reverent Silence -Vs- Back to Nature

What MUs do you want them against?
Enchantress, Lands, Stax, anything running Moat or Propaganda. They're not necessary against Counterbalance since CT decks are lousy against Goblins to begin with. There aren't any other decks in the format that have a heavy Enchantment element.

Enchantress-
RS can be cast as early as T1 if they overextend and you can still cast a Lackey. B2N eats up 2 mana, but doesn't give them the life boost. In my opinion, the tempo lost from B2N outweighs the life offered by RS, so RS is a better sweeper in this MU.

Lands-
If Lands can only play 1 Land per turn then they can't lock Goblins out with Glacial Chasm. Wiping their Manabonds and Explorations does just that. RS can be played for free off of 1 topdecked fetch. B2N requires 1 land to make it through your upkeep untapped. Once again, RS seems to allow more plays and the life gain drawback is nullified by the shear volume of damage you're going to get through.

Stax-
Noone plays this deck, but if they do you can kill their Ghostly Prisons and Suppression Fields and swing in for the win. Once again, the plays RS allows you (by virtue of being free to cast) compensate for the life gain, whereas B2N keeps you from spending 2 mana on goblins for your game-ending strike that turn.

Control- B2N is easier to counter as it's more susceptible to Counterbalance, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare. Again, I think RS is better.

[GoboLord]

Reverent Silence -Vs- Back to Nature

What MUs do you want them against?
Enchantress, Lands, Stax, anything running Moat or Propaganda. They're not necessary against Counterbalance since CT decks are lousy against Goblins to begin with. There aren't any other decks in the format that have a heavy Enchantment element.

Enchantress-
RS can be cast as early as T1 if they overextend and you can still cast a Lackey. B2N eats up 2 mana, but doesn't give them the life boost. In my opinion, the tempo lost from B2N outweighs the life offered by RS, so RS is a better sweeper in this MU.

Lands-
If Lands can only play 1 Land per turn then they can't lock Goblins out with Glacial Chasm. Wiping their Manabonds and Explorations does just that. RS can be played for free off of 1 topdecked fetch. B2N requires 1 land to make it through your upkeep untapped. Once again, RS seems to allow more plays and the life gain drawback is nullified by the shear volume of damage you're going to get through.

Stax-
Noone plays this deck, but if they do you can kill their Ghostly Prisons and Suppression Fields and swing in for the win. Once again, the plays RS allows you (by virtue of being free to cast) compensate for the life gain, whereas B2N keeps you from spending 2 mana on goblins for your game-ending strike that turn.

Control- B2N is easier to counter as it's more susceptible to Counterbalance, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare. Again, I think RS is better.

I think you are missing some points:

* we need Enchantment hate not only against the decks you listed. Every deck with E.Plague requires to board enchantment hat (if able). In those decks lifepoints DO matter. B2N can also remove enchantmens when being played in response to fetchland-activation
* Enchantress has a very good solution on RS: Karmic Justice. This, however is ineffective against B2N

B2N is easier to counter as it's more susceptible to Counterbalance, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare. Again, I think RS is better

* I don't know any deck with Counterbalance against which we need either one. Plus, as you said, CB decks are usually a good MU.

[Nessaja]

The biggest difference between them is free vs 2 mana and instant vs sorcery.

I disagree that B2N is resilent against Karmic Justic, you're not always going to keep 2 mana in that matchup, you generally want to race them and fall back on enchantment removal if plan A fails.
If you're not spending your mana, you can't race enchantress.

Against Eplague I think the same deal counts. Those 6 life points are largely insignificant when you look at what goblins can do with mana.

There are CB decks with Moat and Humility where goblins can use the enchantment hate. Not sure if those decks will always run CB as well (really depends) but case in point, it's better against all counters in the legacy format. Including Daze, Spell Pierce, CB, Spell Snare, Cursecatcher.

[Vandalize]

The biggest difference between them is free vs 2 mana and instant vs sorcery.

I disagree that B2N is resilent against Karmic Justic, you're not always going to keep 2 mana in that matchup, you generally want to race them and fall back on enchantment removal if plan A fails.
If you're not spending your mana, you can't race enchantress.

Against Eplague I think the same deal counts. Those 6 life points are largely insignificant when you look at what goblins can do with mana.

There are CB decks with Moat and Humility where goblins can use the enchantment hate. Not sure if those decks will always run CB as well (really depends) but case in point, it's better against all counters in the legacy format. Including Daze, Spell Pierce, CB, Spell Snare, Cursecatcher.

Back to Nature is much better than Reverent Silence against enchantress. The lifegain RS provides is relevant against this matchup (unless you have 3 hungry piledrivers, of course). And, by the way, mana isn't an argument because if you're locked up, Enchantress.dec will need 3 or 4 more turns to get their Angels ready (usually). That's enough time to get a good goblin counting and just wait for an EOT B2N.

[Pinoy Goblin]

Do you run any Chieftains main? I would try to play a combination of 5 or 6 Chieftain/Liege to battle E plague. I actually play 1 Liege main in addition to 1 Siege-gang Commander and 2 Chieftains. I wouldn't go any other way anymore.

On Ratchet Bomb, I'm wondering when you want to play it. You can't play control with your Ports if you play Ratchet Bomb on turn 2 or 3. So it can go down on turn 4 which means being useful turn 7. I think you're better off just going aggro instead of wasting a turn on Ratchet Bomb. And even if you play it turn 2 I think its only good if you also started off with a Vial otherwise you can't put any pressure on. But by all means try it out.

Also I don't think you can win every fight. I think you have to make a decision which threats you want to fight most. Maybe you should consider splashing green if you have the cards, its mostly troublesome enchantments you listed.

Tnks Gobolord and Neils for the inputs, @ neil = yes I am running 1 chieftain main and 2 boartusk liege sb but the problem is that even though I play my lords first when Eplague is around the tendency is they would kill it immediately, also 2 plagues on play is hard to beat its a GG for me.My built is on the control side that I only play 3 lords total, I would test ratchet bomb because im playing mono and I think this is the only solution to enchantment removal. I know that it is slow as hell but its my only solution to my built, I will test this and give u guys a feedback. I like the control side rather than the aggro side because my built is without warren instigators and I have a lone chieftain.Yes Im thinking of splashing green but Im routing for the white splash because of its dual purpose of creature kill(swords) and artifact,enchantmrent removal(disenchant) Heres an interesting decklist that finished 3/71 but I would rather have 3 disenchant sb and removed the kiki,crafter there.More power to all the Goblins player out there. GOBS rule!!!

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=42135

[TossUsToLions]

I don't understand the allure of Swords to Plowshares in Goblins. Rb decks aren't playing Terminate or Deathmark (which may warrant some testing, but probably not). Goblin removal spells seem to be the ones that people continue to come back to. If you're worried about enchantments, green is definitely the way to go. (Too bad the dual land prices are outrageous right now so I can't afford to test a green splash. Oh well, I'm pretty happy with black for now).

[Skeggi]

Here are some sideboarding suggestions:

If Propaganda is your problem, you're playing against blue, you shouldn't have a problem.

If Engineered Plague is a problem, board Boartusk Liege.

If Firespout is a problem, board Boartusk Liege.

If Moat or Ghostly Prison or Elspeth, Knight-Errant is a problem, board Anarchy.

If Umezawa's Jitte is a problem, board Tuktuk Scrapper and/or Pithing Needle.

If Tarmogoyf or Wild Nacatl or Knight of the Reliquary is a problem, board Perish and/or Nature's Ruin.

If White Vial Aggro is a problem, board Virtue's Ruin and/or Pithing Needle.

If Storm Combo is a problem, board Mindbreak Trap and/or Leyline of the Void/Tormod's Crypt.

If Dredge is a problem, board Leyline of the Void/Tormod's Crypt and/or Pithing Needle.

If Reanimate is a problem, board Leyline of the Void/Tormod's Crypt and/or Warren Weirding.

[GoboLord]

If Firespout is a problem, board Boartusk Liege.

Agree with 9 out of 10 statements.
Boartusk Liege survives Firespout, but basicly no other creature will (unless they are 4/4, which is unlikely). Therefore Boartusk Liege is just as good in fightning Firespout as Boggart Mob and Gobli Goon

[Skeggi]

Boartusk Liege survives Firespout, but basicly no other creature will (unless they are 4/4, which is unlikely). Therefore Boartusk Liege is just as good in fightning Firespout as Boggart Mob and Goblin Goon

I don't agree, since the alternatives you mention have severe drawbacks. You already need a goblin in play when you play Boggart Mob. What if your opponent just cast Firespout? Chances are you have no Goblins left. In that case Boartusk Liege is an infinately better topdeck.

As for Goblin Goon how often do you control more creatures than the Firespout caster after a Firespout? Chances are that he plays Firespout surviving creatures like Tarmogoyf, Rhox War Monk or Vendilion Clique. Goblin Goon is utterly useless then.

[GoboLord]

I don't agree, since the alternatives you mention have severe drawbacks. You already need a goblin in play when you play Boggart Mob. What if your opponent just cast Firespout? Chances are you have no Goblins left. In that case Boartusk Liege is an infinately better topdeck.

As for Goblin Goon how often do you control more creatures than the Firespout caster after a Firespout? Chances are that he plays Firespout surviving creatures like Tarmogoyf, Rhox War Monk or Vendilion Clique. Goblin Goon is utterly useless then.

True story, but that's not what I wanted to point out. I know that Goblin Goon and Boggart Mob aren't good in fighting Firespout either. I wanted to say that Boartusk Liege doesn't help to keep your creatures alive when Firespout hits the ground. He just a creature that survives it. When you are up against Firespout you should probably keep 1 Matron/Ringlead/Siege-Gang Commander on your hand, because they make it easier to catch up with the lost cardadvantage.

[Skeggi]

Yeah, I board in Boartusk Liege because he's a Firespout-survivor, not because he makes other Goblins survive Firespout (because he doesn't). I don't think running enough lord-effects is the right way to tackle Firespout because you have to go all-in to gain enough +1/+1 effects, so 1 Firespout +1 spotremoval loses you the game for sure. Best way to deal with Firespout is not to overextend, as you described.

[Nidd]

True story, but that's not what I wanted to point out. I know that Goblin Goon and Boggart Mob aren't good in fighting Firespout either. I wanted to say that Boartusk Liege doesn't help to keep your creatures alive when Firespout hits the ground. He just a creature that survives it. When you are up against Firespout you should probably keep 1 Matron/Ringlead/Siege-Gang Commander on your hand, because they make it easier to catch up with the lost cardadvantage.

On the other hand, Liege survives Firespout and makes every Goblin you play bigger, which is important when you start trading 3-1 with Firespouts.

You'll nearly always have some "dead" cards in the MB which can be boarded out for that Liege you have in the SB, so why not bring him in against Firespout?

[Nameless Two]

Goblins can be explosive, especially with a lord on the board. If your Boartusk Liege is the sole survivor of an Firesprout, you can still topdeck that Matron finding Chieftain and swing for 10.