[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Surak]

did anyone test lilliana of the veil already?
How did she play?

[Einherjer]

Another question: With the meta getting faster, is it time to go back to Dark Ritual or Chrome Mox?

[Rizso]

Quite sure merfolk will return with full force as it was before misstep took over the format. Quite sure im gonna stick with mox just to get alot more power when being on draw. Hopefully merfolk takes over the format making combo less appealing to play :P. I for one dont really want to use slots in the board for the combo if i dont really have to.

Hopefully alot more will be known after the next scg open.

[annoiato]

Quite sure im gonna stick with mox just to get alot more power when being on draw.

Do you always side out mox in g2 and g3 (if you are not on draw)?

[Tim the Enchanter]

I almost always sided out moxen games two and three regardless of if I was on the draw or play.

Like I've said before, I think it's time for a return to Aether Vials. Good luck resolving anything under a Counter-Top lock.

[Leto]

I'm not sold on a return of CBTop, they had big problems before MM was printed due to a more diverse Mana-Curve in many decks and Cards like GSZ.

I am not that experienced, so maybe I am wrong on that thought, but some People who are way smarter than I am think the same, so I am not really worried about CounterTop atm^^

[Abantau]

4 mother of runes
4 phyrexian revoker
4 dark confidant
4 serra avenger
2 jotun grunt
3 tidehallow skuller
3 stoneforge mystic
3 leonin relic-warder

4 swords to plowshares

4 aether vial
1 batterskull
1 sword of light and shadow
1 sword of body and mind
1 umezawa's jitte

1 karakas
2 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
3 swamp
3 plain
4 scrubland
4 wasteland

Sideboard
3 enlightened tutor
1 thorn of amethyst
1 tormod's crypt
1 relic of progenitus
1 ethersworn canonist
1 chalice of the void
2 ghostly prison
1 engineered plague
1 cursed totem
1 rune halo
2 burrenton forge-tender

Hi guys went back to the vial build with MM getting axed, and im taking this to a local tourey next week.

Took out vindicate and put in relic warder so that it wont be affected by thorn of amethyst.

Weighing the possibilities that combo and countertop will get a comeback and felt that vial is in a good position here.

What do the vial users think?

[ubernostrum]

I've played with variations of Tim's Vial build off and on since seeing his performance in Charlotte, and now I'm leaning toward running something like it next weekend in Nashville. Got some tough choices to make, though, and thinking I probably can't reliably make them until late tomorrow when we see what sorts of things happen in Indy.

Anyway... thoughts/opinions would be appreciated on the following:

Serra Avenger: right now I'm running a split of 2 Avenger, 2 Mirran Crusader. Avenger's awesome, of course, but having a Crusader or two main has helped quite a bit shoring up the Zoo matchup and breaking some of the ground stalemates that come up a lot versus Junk. Not sure the split's right, though, especially if there's a lot of fish in the field.

The twenty-first land: I'd been running a singleton Volrath's Stronghold in this slot since the recursion's always handy, but over time I'm less and less impressed with it. Despite Tim's complaints about it not really belonging in his original list, I'm kinda feeling like going back to a Karakas here just because it sometimes randomly wins a game. Also, while the matchup against Hive Mind is good, things get a lot worse when they switch to the S&T into Emrakul plan, and I wouldn't complain about having another way around that.

Elspeth or Bitterblossom: right now I'm running one Elspeth, no Blossoms. Given that I'm already running Bob and don't have ways to gain life outside of Jitte, I feel a bit anxious about running Bitterblossom. On the other hand, a resolved Blossom just beats so many decks right now.

For the record, here's the list I'm tinkering with at the moment:

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler

Equipment
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Other
4 Aether Vial
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate

Land
2 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Plague
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Null Rod
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

[unicoerner]

I would add another Mystic and one Batterskull. Then you have more ways to get life. Then you could remove the Else for Bitterblossom

[Einherjer]

Do I see right? Not a single Thoughtseize or Hymn to Tourach? Thats madness. My list looks like this at the moment:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Bitterblossom

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Batterskull
1 SoLaS
1 SoBaM
1 Umezawas Jitte
3 Senseis Divining Top

4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Fetid Heath
3 Swamps
1 Plains


Thats what I would consider to be a DGA - the Vial-lists are more like Blades of Glory?

Greetings

[Aadz0r]

I went 2nd place out of 41 in a GPT today winning 3 byes for GP Amsterdam. I ran the following list:

Lands (21)
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
2x Swamp
3x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland

Artifacts (7)
4x Aether Vial
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Creatures (24)
4x Mother of Runes
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Dark Confidant
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Serra Avenger

Instants (6)
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Go for the Throat

Sorceries (2)
2x Vindicate

Sideboard (15)
3x Perish
4x Mindbreak Trap
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Phyrexian Metamorph

My matches were:
1: 2-0 vs Maverick
2: 2-1 vs Team America
3: 2-0 vs UW Stoneblade (he finished 1st)
4: 2-0 vs Reanimate
5: I.D.
6: 1-2 vs ANT with white splash

Quarter's: 2-1 vs Reanimate (same as round 4)
Semi's: 2-1 vs ANT (same as round 6)
Finals: vs UW Stoneblade (same as round 3) We split the prizes and played for planeswalker points. He won the first game, and I decided to just scoop the second, as my friends were already waiting for like 2 hours on me, and I was getting extremely tired and hungry. I really liked the vial version and am definitely taking this to the GP.

[Osmin]

Hi, Aadz0r! Congratulations on finish.
Could you describe your sideboard plans? Side ins/outs.

[Aadz0r]

Well, I created the sideboard the night before. I had a board without Enlightened Tutor, but after finding out that my combo match was worse than I expected, I decided to pack lots of anti combo. So, I brewed the sideboard with a friend who always plays ANT, so he told me what was good which was; if you have a canonist with protection on the field and a Mindbreak Trap in your hand they basically can't win. So I decided to go with the Tutors to make up for the space that the Trap's cost me. I wanted some hate against the random Dredge match which is pretty bad for us, and something against burn. I really wanted to play Warmth, but I couldn't borrow it from anyone, so CoP:Red is also good, especially with an active Vial. The Metamorph was for Reanimate, NO, and Show and Tell decks.

I'm usually very bad at sideboarding, so besides the things that are usual I might have done a couple of things wrong, but my boarding was as followed:

Vs Maverick: -1x Stoneforge Mystic, -1x Batterskull, -1x Vindicate, +3x Perish.
I don't really like Batterskull in this match, and so 4x Stoneforge is also too much. I think I should've removed another Stoneforge instead of the Vindicate.

Vs Team America: I believe I removed 3x Phyrexian Revoker and added 3x Perish. He only plays 4x Tarmogoyf I know, but since Revoker didn't have a target against him (I didn't see any Jace), extra removal is never bad. I left the last Revoker in, because I thought there was nothing to add, but I should've either put in a Metamorph to be able to block his Goyf or Tombstalker, or a Relic to weaken his Goyfs.

Vs UW Stoneblade: Nothing. The entire deck is just amazing against them. I didn't bring anything to ease this match up, because I think it is already at least 60-40 with all the hate we play, and I didn't bring a sideboard to ease our good matches, but rather to improve our bad ones.

Vs Reanimate: -4x Phyrexian Revoker, -1x Batterskull, +2x Enlightened Tutor, +1x Wheel of Sun and Moon, +1x Relic of Progenitus, +1x Phyrexian Metamorph
The revokers have no targets against him, and the Batterskull is just useless if they have a fattie. What came in seems pretty obvious right.

Vs ANT: -4x Swords to Plowshares, -2x Go for the Throat, -1 Stoneforge Mystic, -1x Batterskull. +4x Mindbreak Trap, +1x Ethersworn Canonist, +1x Thorn of Amethyst, +2x Enlightened Tutor.
Also seems pretty obvious to me. I need all the hate I can possibly get. I won game 2 on exactly what I hoped for: Canonist + Mindbreak Trap, and lost game 3 because I kept a hand with little hate. SHould've mulled there, but I was already top 8 and figured, screw it.

The top 8 matches were only matches that I already played before, and I believe I boarded the same. There was just one epic moment against Reanimate in the semi's. I had Vindicate + Swords to Plowshares in my hand with a confidant on the board. It was 1-1 in games, so the winner would go through to the last 4. He reanimates Iona naming white so I was pretty screwed, so I was like ****. Only Go for the Throat saves me now, so I flip with confidant: Phyrexian Metamorph. Me happy face, he looked like he wanted to throw up. After that I beat him down with confidant. :) And another moment was in the last game vs ANT in the semis, where he saw my hand, and saw I was holding a Mindbreak Trap, I draw Revoker in my turn, and have a Vial on 2, so I pass the turn. He plays Chant, Ponder, Dark Ritual, LED. I respond with Vial into Revoker and he puts up the 'sad face'. Two turns later I have lethal on the board next turn, and he tries to combo off without protection hoping that I would fail, but when the 5th card he plays is a tutor, and he has no cards in hand, I trap his tutor and win the game.

If you guys have any tips for me please tell me, cause I still suck with sideboarding and would love to get some advise from more experienced players.

[Einherjer]

Did you NEVER miss Thoughtseite or Hymn to Tourach? I couldnt play without them.

[ubernostrum]

My own experience with playing Vial builds off and on for the past few months is that you really need to think about it as a different sort of deck. Traditional DGA runs heavy disruption and wants to use it to knock the opponent out of the game quickly, so that the sub-par (by Legacy standards) creatures can mop up.

The Vial builds, though, play a more tempo-oriented game; the disruption is lighter and less straightforward, and so you have to use it more carefully -- where "Swamp, Mox, Hymn you" is almost never a bad first-turn play with the traditional builds, a Vial-oriented deck will rarely drop Tidehollow Sculler immediately; in this deck it fills the sort of role Vendilion Clique does in some of the newer breeds of blue decks. You want to hang on to Scullers to Vial in response to a critical combo piece, or to clear the way for something that has to resolve.

Same goes for Phyrexian Revoker, and the Enlightened Tutor package with a bunch of bullets in the board; it's a different approach, and takes some getting used to, but can be very rewarding once you have some familiarity with it (and when the meta's right).

[Einherjer]

Well said.
But in the european Meta the "traditional DGA" as you call it is known as Deadguy Ale - whereas the "Vial-oriented deck" as you call it is known as Blades of Glory, so if you ask me, there are 2 different archetypes.

[Richard Cheese]

After that movie with Will Ferrel and Josh Heder?

[warai]

I see several builds using Tidehollow Sculler as the only source for discard. With combo returning in full strength Thoughtseize is an auto include.

I prefer the Non-Vial list with a more disrupt oriented package and less creatures. Stoneforge Mystic, Confidant and Sculler with Bitterblossom and equipment do the job.

[Einherjer]

You would play the Sculler without playing Aether Vials? Thats pretty risky.

My list for reference:
Manabase
3 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
5 Swamps

Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jötun Grunt

Discard
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize

Removal
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate


Rest
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Bitterblossom

Equips
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow (or Fire and Ice)

[warai]

I would play it but only as a 2 of in a non vial build.

If you play Vial you need to play 3/4 of and reduce the number of Hymns/Duress in order to take full advantage of it.