The other thing to consider is that on paper 1-3 Rishadan Port looks a lot more random than in the context of playing the deck with 4 Wastelands. Rishadan Port serves as mana disruption slots 5-7; running 6-7 of an effect obviously increases the likelihood of seeing it and makes it a part of your strategy you can rely on seeing with more frequency.Originally Posted by Nelis
I've run as many as 4 Ports in Goblins and until recently have clung to a singleton as 'Wasteland #5', but I think recent releases and the current metagame have devalued Rishadan Port.
Krenko really wants to be paired with Goblin Warchief and a bunch of red mana. Cavern of Souls has provided another tool to work around Daze, allowing Goblins to be less concerned with having an extra mana source. And concerning the decks we're facing Terminus has replaced Wrath of God, there's no Porting them to keep 'em off. Opposing agro decks like Maverick are running 4 Noble, 4 GSZ -> Arbor and piles of 2 drops, there's not much value to be had out of early Porting. I suppose Rishadan Port is still very disruptive against RUG, but that match up seems to come down to Delver of Secrets. If they land and flip Delver the deck has to push Goblins onto the field quick and either try to answer the Insect Aberration or race, neither of which is aided by Port. Port can be good to keep them off Green mana, but if the Goblins has a spare two mana against RUG it seems overwhelming the board is a more favorable play.
I'm running
14 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Mogg War Marshall
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Seige-Gang Commander
TPDMC
If Krenko is so good, why only have one and not two within the 60. Yes you can Matron for him or Ringleader into him but won't he be a removal magnet?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
And that's the last piece of information I was missing.At least now I have a good frame of reference when testing. My list right now is:
12 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Mogg War Marshall
3 Goblin Piledriver
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Siege-Gang Commander
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
This is my list:
11 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg War Marshall
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Stingscourger
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Tinkerer
- 11 Mountains are more than enough for the 7 RR1 haste lords. Really. I just got screwed twice in about 30 matches and it was because I was screwed on mana in general not because I had too much colorless mana.
- 2 Ports, they have played a very good role (Against Miracle, for instance).
- I run 7 haste-lords because they have amazing synergy with Kenkro (and the rest, of course). I see I am the one running most lords.
- 2 Krenkos. Also said by someone there "Why packing only one?" Well, they get all the hate (they have gotten StPed a lot!) so I prefer having two. Against Maverick and thanks to the haste lords I have been able to overwhelm the other guy (19 tokens 2/2 on T5).
- Tinkerer is nice, I like it more than Tuktuk because you can multiple use it with low costing artifacts (tested the deck against Top and had to even tutor it, you slow them way too much). It is also CC2 so you can play it and beat with it, block, create more Krenko's tokens... fills nicely the spot.
- Prospector hasn't seen much play but I want to test it more.
- Stingscourger: I don't see it much on the lists posted, only as a 1-of and I think it is amazing card. I wouldn't put less than 2.
- SGC is very nice to fill up fast the board. I like more Krenko, though, but I can see scenarios were SGC is very useful (T2 from Lackey or need to fire stuff). I lile the 2/1 split.
I tested it against Miracle and Maverick and did pretty well.
Hope this helps anyone.
LPEuler, your deck looks good to me. Though, I would try to fit in another MWM at the already tight deck list. My latest list has 20 lands, 3 MWM, 2 SGC, and 1 Stingscourger. Having both SGC and Krenko out is nuts, and creates a dilemma when the opponent finally finds a removal, because both cards controls the board very well.
It depends on your build. If your deck do not run any additional haste lords (Chieftain) but has a suit of cards that can abuse tokens (SGC/Prospector/Sharpshooter), Krenko is a very useful 1-of as a tool. If your deck has 6-7 haste lords, Krenko may be a win condition, so having 2-3 Krenko is nice because you can draw him mid game, if not through Matron or Ringleader, and abuse this ability right away. Krenko may be a removal magnet, but so are Lackey, Warchief, Chieftain, Piledriver, SGC, Tinkerer, and Sharpshooter; most of which may eat removals before Krenko comes out. Luckily, recurring removals like Grim Lavamancer and Punishing Fire can't kill off Krenko by themselves, so I am not terribly worried.If Krenko is so good, why only have one and not two within the 60. Yes you can Matron for him or Ringleader into him but won't he be a removal magnet?
Thanks for the words, I used your deck as inspiration.
I will l try to put a MWM. The other thing I want to try is fanatics.
I agree completely with your second paragraph.
Yup, Ports can also be used late game to figure out your opponents next move. For example your opponent has 3 open lands, then before combat step you ported his 3 lands, then you declare you're attackers, if he floats his lands and doesn't use it before blockers step it will be gone because floating mana ends every phase thus this will give you an information on whats he's up to or his next move (for example using his open mana to cast bolts,swords or use snapcaster etc. . .) ....... this is very critical on your part because a slight information will give you an edge on what will be you're next move and this has won me games
By the way Ports are essential on our deck and for me 4 is a must because mana denial is one of our tribes main strategy, turn one vial then second turn port on your opponents upkeep - Priceless
I wonder, why everyone is kicking out SGC for Krenkos. They play very well next to each other.
If you play a Toolbox you could even play a KIki aswell. I am quite often searching a KIK if i have no haste Lords to get Krenko dangerous fast enough. Kiki gives me soo much control on the board that its hard for the opponent to catch up.
I see lots of Chalices being played. VS which decks do you use them?
I think noone is kicking out SGC for Krenkos. All lists posted (afaik) have both of them, either 1-1, 1-2 or 2-1. Both play very well next to each other and one can be more useful than the other depending on the situation.
I haven't played Kiki to tell whether it is good or not although I don't like the RRR in its mana cost. Could you give reasons or situations where it could be better than Krenko or SGC with examples? If this situations are as common as the situations where Krenko/SGC are better then I agree it could have a spot in there.
I have been testing a 1-1-1 split with Krenko, SGC, and Kiki, and believe I might just move Krenko to the sb. I have only played around 20 matches with this set up, but Krenko seems to help win the games, where we already have good match ups. And in the games I have played, he has eaten removal a few times. Kiki almost never eats removal. They always go after his clone target, so you can just keep using him turn after after.
The reason I leave Kiki in is the absurdity he provides with Instigator.
Instigator first strike triggers into Matron, Matron into Kiki-Jiki, Kik-Jiki targeting matron, and casting now anything in the deck. For combo Piledriver, then copying Piledriver in the main phase, for lethal. Yea, that beats Krenko... and pretty much gg. That happens way more often then it should. Also works with double lackey triggers, but yea Instigator builds do much better with Kiki.
I can honestly see him being a replacement for Anarchy out of the sb since I think he helps the Maverick matchups the most. But then again, I think he is worse than Anarchy, so I dunno....
Storm combo decks. Lots of their spells cost either 0 or 1 mana.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
[QUOTE=unicoerner;661240I am quite often searching a KIK if i have no haste Lords to get Krenko dangerous fast enough. Kiki gives me soo much control on the board that its hard for the opponent to catch up.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand. Kiki cannot copy Krenko. Lots of other goblins seem better with Krenko on an otherwise empty board.
@Chalice: Some people use it against some other decks other than Storm Combo, like Canadian (almost all 1cc), affinity on the play, Esper (all discard and removal)... There are some others that I'd bring it in, like Enchantress, to block their easy ramping/E.Grass, but not worth mentioning all.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Speaking of Chalice....
I played against TES last night and beat it in 3 thanks to Chalice.
G1 I lost T3.
G2 On the play I opened on a hand of Chalice, Lackey, Mountain, Wasteland. I played Mountain, lackey, chalice @ 0. He played a land. I Wasted his land and cheated something in with Lackey. He scooped after blanking the next 2 turns.
G3 On the draw I kept a hand with Skirk, Piledriver, Matron, Ringleader, Chalice, Wasteland, Mountain. This hand was scary for a few reasons. First of all, if he plays a T1 discard effect I'm probably screwed. But fuck it. The hand had a 1-drop, hate, and Wasteland. What else do I want from it. My opponent did some more sideboarding between games 2 and 3, so I'm fairly sure he's brought in more bounce and discard. However, he mulls to 6, and leads with a T1 Gemstone Mine into Inquisition of Koz which takes my Chalice. Sad. I draw a Cranial Extraction and have a choice to make. If I Waste his Mine he he'll have 1 less mana, but not having a Chalice in play means I wouldn't have been able to stop him from getting mana off a 0-drop anyway. Plus I needed mana to cast my own guys, seeing as how he didn't have cheater. I play a Mountain and cast Prospector. Looking back now I also had the option of Wasting his Mine then Extracting it, but that still doesn't stop the situation where he just blows up with 0-drops anyway. Also, he boarded in more hate this game and he mulled to 6. He didn't lead T1 with a ponder or Brainstorm so I'm fairly confident he's not going off T2 anyway. T2 he misses a land drop and Thoughtseizes me, taking Surgical.... more later... must go to work now....
This is interesting.
I would probably have Wastelanded and passed. The reason is that you used your disruption, and Turn 2 you could draw a Lackey, which would increase your clock by a lot. Maybe some else could speak what they think of this?
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I think I also would have Wastelanded and passed. The opponent took a mull to 6 on the play, and you know that two of those cards were Mine + Inquisition. So he has 4 cards left in hand. In order to go off the next turn, he would need those cards to be something like Ritual, Ritual, LED, Tutor...or multiple LED + Tutor. He can't play a Mox and still go off (I don't think), so by not Wastelanding you're essentially playing around him having the best 4 card hand possible, which seems unlikely. Plus, by taking out the Mine you keep him off of cantrips and disruption until he can find another.
Also, Prospector is not the greates clock in the world, so imo not worth it dealing 1 dmg T2 instead of disrupting them turn 1.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Hello all,
I'm preparing for SCG DC and I need your help. The plan is to post my current decklist and talk about some of my matchups and hopefully get some input on how to change up my deck before the event.
First, my current list:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wastelands
13 Mountains
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Warren Instigator
3 Mogg War-Marshall
2 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper/SGC #2/Krenko #2/Kiki-jiki
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Tarfire
SB:
2 Pyrokinesis (I find myself often only siding in 1...when do you usually bring them in, and how many? Could this drop to a 1-of?)
4-5 GY hate (currently 3 Crypt/2 Cage, but I'm interested in hearing opinions on Farie Macabre and surgical extraction...I either want 5 cards that are somehow split or just 4 leylines)
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thorn of Amethyst (When is this better than Chalice?)
2 Chalice of the Void (I own 3 and want to make room for a 3rd)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (Possibly 2 if I don't have one MD, possibly 0 if I keep one MD)
This is a WInstigator list. I've tried playing lists without him, but I prefer the more aggressive style. He is truly a must-answer. I've tested Chrome moxes and ultimately did not like them.
The 3 MWM play very well with Krenko, which encourages me to play the second, but Kiki-Jiki has served me well in the past, So I'm not sure what I want in that spot. not having Artifact removal in G1 can also be a pain. I expect to see a lot of stoneblade, so having Tuk-tuk in G1 could be a big help.
If I do choose to run only 1 Krenko, I might cut the 3rd MWM for a Gempalm or a piledriver. Thoughts?
I am currently about 50-50 (maybe a little worse) against stonebalde, positive against RUG, and positive agaisnt Maverick. Good agaisnt counter-top. I lose to storm, have a bad MU with reanimator, a good matchup against fish, and a 50-50 with elves. I do well against dredge.
Of those matchups, the only one that I really feel like I can change is stoneblade, and I'd like your help on figuring out how.
I am very excited about SCGDC. I have higher expectations in Standard, where I usually place well, but I am really looking forward to playing in a big Legacy tournament. It will only be my second large one. Please let me know what you think I can do to improve the deck. All suggestions are welcome, even if you feel that you must try to talk me out of the WInstigators (I probably won't listen haha).
...and We're back! All settled in at work and finishing up this match report on the company dime.
It's T2. My opponent is on TES and has 4 cards in hand (on the play, mulled to 6). T1 he played Gemstone Mine and IoK'd me (taking Chalice, duh). I played Mountain, Skirk. T2 he missed a land drop and Thoughseized. My hand was Piledriver, Matron, Ringleader, Surgical Extraction, Wasteland. I had no desire to Surgical his IoK so I didn't respond to the Thoughtseize and he took my Surgical. He passed the turn. My T2 I drew another Matron. My options were A) Waste his Gemstone mine that had 1 counter on it at this point or B) Cast a Piledriver to put a clock on. I needed lands to put any sort of clock on, and that Wasteland was the last land in my hand. Hoping to lucksack a lackey topdeck is too slow. If I Wasted his Mine I wouldn't put on any sort of clock, and I would have to make another Land drop before getting a clock on too. He's more likely to hit a manasource than I am, so really if I Wasted him here (without a clock) I would be setting myself back further than him. If he could have gone off with the 4 in hand he would have last turn anyway. But remember, he hadn't played any and scultpting spells, and he'd missed his T2 land drop. If he had a Ponder or BS there's no way in hell he would have T2 Thoughtseized me, right? He would have dug, trying to hit his T2 land drop, then he would have Thoughtsiezed and gone off T3. But he didn't, so I didn't feel like I needed to slow him down with a Wasteland. it seemed more important to put a clock on him. So i played my Wasteland, tapped it for mana, and cast a Piledriver. i attacked for 1 with Skirk and passed the turn. T3 he draws and goes in the tank. He has 5 cards in hand. He taps his Gemstone and it goes to the grave as the last counter is removed. He plays Chrome Mox, imprinting Echoing Truth, casts 2 Rite of Flame, Burning Wish for Scattershot, and Storms 5 killing my Skirk and Piledriver and dealing 2 to me, leaving him with 0 cards in hand, 0 lands in play, 1 Chrome mox. I draw for turn and rip another Mountian. I play it and cast Matron, tutoring Warchief (2 Mountains, 1 Wasteland, and matron in play; Ringleader, Warchief in hand). T4 he plays an Underground Sea. My turn I rip another Wasteland, Cast the Warchief, swing for 3, and finally, Finally, play a Wasteland and activate it to kill his Underground. T5 he does nothihng. I'm able to cast and swing with something super relevant (either a top-decked piledriver or a good Ringleader that's been sitting in my hand since T1). The writing's on the wall and he scoops.
I was pretty proud of this game. By chosing the line of play that allowed me to put pressure on a player whose hand i correctly surmised was weak, I forced that player to blow his hand in an attempt to reset the game. Had I wasted him T2 he would have won the game, I think. I would be waiting to hit 3 lands again while he would have built up as many cards as possible. I needed to play the beatdown here. Now, had he not gone off turn 3 I definitely would have Wasted his lone Gemstone Mine on my turn, but that's only because I had a 4 damage per turn clock at that point, plus after attacks I would have sacked Skirk to play Matron and tutored up another Piledriver.
Anyway, it was a fun match, and any time you can grab a win on the draw against TES, it feels pretty good.
Liked your list a lot.
If you think you'll face a lot of Stoneblade, keep the Tuktuk on the Main. the one on the side helps a lot there too. If you want more good cards against them, taking ReB and Prospector (move this to the main instead of 1 MWM. You have enough 2 drops) from the SB for 2 Needles. They're very good. They're also pretty good against elf, naming that insect and that elf that untaps others. The elf MU is a good reason to keep the Knesis count at 2-3. Needle is wonderful against Miracle too.
Thorn is better than Chalice against SnT decks. A split is totally acceptable though.
My 5 Grave hate now are 1 Cage, 2 Fearie, 2 Relic. If you want to run Crypt, I'd suggest 2 Crypt, 2 Fearie, 1 Cage. There are some games where one is better than the other, so I prefer the 2-2-1 split than the 3-2. Also, they need different hate to get around them all, so that's nice (AND, Cabal Therapy is a thing. Havigg more chande dodging it is nice).
That's what I have for you. Good luck on DC =]
I still think Wastelanding would be the correct play, and you would probably have won doing that too.
- He would not have been able to Toughtseize you, which means you'd have kept the Surgical, which means he would either waste a turn later on to Seize you, in which case the 2nd Waste you drew would take his 2nd land, or try to go off without Seizing you, which Surgical would have been awesome when cast in response to the 2nd Rite of Flame, making him 1 mana short from whatever he was attempting.
- From what you drew, you'd play Propector T2, Piledriver T3, Matron T4, which is quite a good clock on that situation.
Afterall, you didn't knew his hand, and didn't want to get yourself landscrewd by not drawing more lands. That's totally acceptable. I'd just play differently because, in my experiece, that line of play led me to more wins.
I'll ask the storm players on my team what they think about this too.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Scat- Thank you for the advice. Having read these forums for a while, I very much respect your opinion because of your successful finishes and committment to the deck.
The Skirk Prospector change makes so much sense that I'm a little embaressed not to have thought of it myself. It clears room in the sideboard AND fights stoneblade in g1 by keeping Jitte from getting counters and stopping batterskull from gaining life. Perfect. It also plays well with Krenko, who I believe I will now play 2-of in the main deck, leaving both tuktuks in the SB.
An updated list, taking your suggestions into account:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wastelands
13 Mountains
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Warren Instigator
2 Mogg War-Marshall
2 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Tarfire
SB:
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Fairie Macabre
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Chalice of the Void
Last edited by woodjt5; 07-27-2012 at 12:29 PM. Reason: terrible spelling
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