I can imagine that Krenko is cool in a list with 7(!) haste enablers. Your list is very fast and relies on fast kills - I like that. However, you should definitely try to squeeze in Piley#4 because he is your MVP if your goal is winning fast.Originally Posted by Mrheizenberg
Maybe you could also toy around with 2 Chrome Moxen instead of 2 Mountains. Past has shown that this is a viable choice - however I can't say wether it'S a good idea to run Moxen in the current meta. I think it's worth a try though.
I highly doubt that ANYONE on this forum ever had his SGC copied twice in the same game. That's a quite unique story and absolutely NO reason to kick him entirely.
I wouldn't say it's THAT easy, but in YOUR list running Bolt > Tarfire makes sense to me.
Sharpshooter is not very good right now - even less so in the MD. I would either kick him entirely or move him to SB. Overall I feel like he's too slow and has a narow reach. Maybe kick him for Piley#4?
Step 1: Tarfire/Incinerator/Bolt @ Tarmogoyf
Step 2: Sacrifice Relic of Progenitus, draw a card.
Step 3: Tarmogoyf dies. There is nothing that your opponent can do about that (unless he's willing to use Stifle/Trickbind/Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker/Null ROd/Stony Silence on Relic).
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Thanks for the reply
I know those tricks but i was trying to explain that if you don't have any removal (or less than the number of tarmo) your opponent CAN refill his GY. With RIP, he is just screwed (no bounce or disenchant in their SB)
@SGC, in my list he's just too slow and i use every mana to put dudes on the battlefield or for mana denial. For the story, it happens to me (during playtests yesterday).
@pily#4 i was thinking about a matron or a ringleader (yes i'm just an heretic awaiting to be burnt to death).
@Sharpy elves is an hard MU in G1 and need it to make it smoother (more and more French players run this deck now). He is pretty amazing during combat phase (offering nice trading ability). Near all of the non-combo deck , in my meta runs (one, a mix or all) Snapcaster/Baleful Strix / Lingering souls or Confident. He is still a viable slot but maybe you are right and his place is in the SB.
Yeah, that's the point i was trying to explain.I wouldn't say it's THAT easy, but in YOUR list running Bolt > Tarfire makes sense to me.
I've been thinking that fast lists might be the way to go now, since we want to have a shot against unfair decks.
The problem I see with yours is that it does not run SGC (the reasoning you gave for taking them out is really bad), because it increases the number of T3 kills (Lackey+SGC+Piledriver). So I present my slightly modified list that I was working on too:
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
12 Mountain
2 Chrome Mox
3 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg Warmarchall
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Kiki Jiki, Mirrorbreaker
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
4 Lightning Bolt
SB:
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 ReB / Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Aether Vial / Mountain
1 Boartusk Liege / Mountain
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
The deck can kill T3 quite often. Kiki makes that number go up just as SGC. On this particular list, Krenko might not be worth it, becaming maybe the 4th MWM.
Vial went to 3 in testing. After some research on the last 5 top16 decks on SCGopens, I discovered that Vial was good against 42 of the 80 decks. (I side out Vial quite a lot, while some other people might not, against decks like Burn, Elves, Affinity, so that's why the high number). With that in mind, and thinking of decks I mght face locally, the decision was made.
The strategy against Reanimator/Dredge is to kill them before they kill you.
The Moxes can easily became Mountains. They're there to increase T3 kills.
It's been a while since I've played, and wanted your oppinions on the matter.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I'm playing SCG Indy this weekend. Anyone have a list that you think is the most optimal for the metagame? I'm thinking of just sticking to the mono red list I played with in Cincy or moving towards a black splash for perish.
@ Marcello:
Your list looks fine. The only thing that could be REALLY problematic is having that many cc4/5 spells. Having 8 spotremoval makes your Lackey-connection more frequent, but I think having such a cluncy mana-curve might come back at you sometimes (like when your opponents deal with Lackey somehow, or you dont draw removal spells. Having multiple cc4/5 spells on your hand can make them dead cards. Plus, I neither like Krenko, nor the 3-Vial thing. WHat you say sounds plausible, but my gut-feeling tells me that its wrong.
@ B-rad:
I think you will be fine either your mono-red list from last tourney ( I tested that one and it proved to be very strong against BGx at least) OR a Rb list without fetchlands (something like 4 Auntie'S Hovel, 4 Badlands to support 4 Perish in SB.
///EDIT:
@ Marcello: Yes.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Well, -1Krenko, +1 Vial is a possibility too.
Because of Shaman? (mainly)
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
What's the general consensus with Loyalist? Should I pick them up?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
No.
Well here are my last two lists. I built this and we played it at the SCG LA Invitational. I finished 4-4 and friend got 19th.
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Goblin Piledriver
3 Warren Instigator
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
13 Mountain
2 Rishadan Port
4 Ęther Vial
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyrokinesis
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Coat of Arms
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
Mana base and higher end was to play more effectively against Abrupt Decay, as BUG was all the rage. The Krenko plan was a solid answer to that.
Current List:
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Goblin Piledriver
3 Warren Instigator
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 SGC/Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
12 Mountain
2 Rishadan Port
4 Ęther Vial
2 Tarfire
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Zoran Orb
SB: 2 Angel of Despair
Took out a land, due to Abrupt Decay becoming less prevalent. Brought back in Sharpshooter as there has been an uptick in Esper after last GP. Finally dropped Pyrokinesis from MB, as there are less and less targets for it. Swapped out Bolts for Tarfires, mostly a local thing. Currently testing Settler over SGC in last slot. Seems like it could be pretty strong against Helm decks. Angels are a nod to more and more sneak and shows.
Looks good to me. I have some experience with Goblin Settler, Kiki-Jiki, and Instigator, and can say with confidence that it can absolutely win some games against slow decks. If Instigator connects, you can surprisingly often find the combo with Matron/Ringleader.
First of all, are 'slow decks' the target we should be aiming for in the metagame?
And secondly, back when Kiki was in my deck, I used to matron for Kiki, then Kiki->Matron in their EOT gives you whatever you want, often an Incinerator, but sometimes SGC or Ringleader.
Maybe not, but to clarify, all control decks and combo decks that doesn't auto-win by turn 3 fall into this category.
The plan does not work against aggro decks, because Lackey/Instigator will never connect.
That is how it works, but none of those cards you mention can win against a deck that is about to go off or stabilize for control. Instigator - > Matron for Kiki, Kiki etb -> eot copy Matron for Settler, next turn Settler -> copy Settler is often a win.
Doesn't every deck that isn't a non-interactive combo deck run spot removal now?
Even some non-interactive decks run spot removal. Any deck that uses the graveyard has to, now that DRS has arrived.
Couple of questions;
I've been having a hard time against tool-box decks that just fetch an answer, then place their hand on my goblins heads to keep them at arms reach....
How do we deal with Moat-style effects or Solitary Confinement/Glacial Chasm?
Is there a single kill-all we can use in goblins? I've tried Chaos Warp but it's risky (emrakul), and so far it's been less than great.
Secondly, I have been running Chieftain, and find the pump and haste to be invaluable, but quite a few of you run Boartusk Liege, why?
At four mana, is the reason more to do with Vial (Krenko), MU's against Delver - or is it something else?
Last edited by slave; 03-07-2013 at 11:37 PM.
Liege cc=4 - so abrupt decay is no issue. Most decks playing Engeneered plaque can take care of chieftain, but not Liege. He's got 4 toughness, so bolt isn't an issue either.
Glacial Chasm and lands like these are the reason we still run 4 Wastelands. For Moat and other hate bears I'd suggest Krosan Grip post-board, especially since it's enables TSH!
Gobbos: Kings of flavortext!
Sharpshooter + Prospector can help a ton against those cards. Against Solitary is not unusual for them to have to sac one, to play another one their turn. When that happens, be prepared to insta-kill them. Siege-Gang, obviously, really help here too.
If you know your opponent runs Moat, try to deal the most dmg you can to him on the first 3 turns, then tutor for SGC. Deny them mana, specially double W. Port is your friend here.
If you're REALLY worried about those cards, Anarchy is a great answer to both, coming in against several other matchups.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Hello everyone! I too am an avid Goblins player. The first deck I made for a large tournament was Goblin-Bidding back in standard, which I played very poorly. I recall the 1st round of the tournament playing the mirror and learning about damage on the stack (my opponent's Goblin Sledders were MUCH better than mine). I also began to learn the art of sideboarding (when in a postboard game I played Patriarch's Bidding, which unsurprisingly was all downside as my opponent had boarded his out and had a higher threat density, making Bidding's symmetrical effect actually favor my opponent!) After that point I've played Goblins when possible, even winning a box in side event at a Grand Prix with 4 maindeck Goblin Artillery! The first version of Legacy Goblins I played was BR for Cabal Therapies/Warren Weirding and sideboard cards such as Perish/Additional Therapies. I knew at the time of building the deck that a RW build with Thalia had more synergy with its overall gameplan of mana-denial with an aggressive element. I also knew that mana-denial and discard are semi-disynergistic because the point of denying them mana is to make their hand uncastable. However, we're not talking about Thoughtseize here. We're talking about a card that can destroy an entire hand, making it more like a 1-mana Persecute. And clearly the flashback on it fits the theme of the deck (since many of the Goblins are both weak and have already replaced themselves, with my favorites being Mogg War Marshal, Stingscourger, and Goblin Matron to sacrifice.) I did great in the one large tournament I played it in, but am always in the mood to try something a little different. Here's what I may play this weekend:
Mana-Tax Goblins
------------------
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
---30 Goblins---
4 AEther Vial
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
---7 Other Spells---
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishidan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateu
3 Mountain
---23 Land---
With a sideboard consisting of some of the usual suspects but not complete. The reason I went towards this list was a postboard plan against combo involving 3 Thalia and 3 Thorn of Amethyst to compliment the 8 mana-denial lands.
In this version I've maxed out the "broken" Goblins since that's the point of playing the deck. Sure, you can get clunky Gempalm Incinerators when no creatures are present, but the times they're good, they're glorious. I really like Mogg War Marshal over most of the Piledrivers against most decks these days, but have left in one Piledriver to mimic the Infernal Tutor -> Infernal Tutor -> Infernal Tutor -> Tendrils of Agony play of Storm decks in the form of Goblin Matron -> Goblin Matron -> Goblin Matron -> Goblin Piledriver with a haste enabler, preferably 1-2 Goblin Warchiefs to make this a reality. Another reason I shaved on Piledrivers was Thalia taking up the 2-drop slot (where it's MUCH better on turn 2 than a Piledriver against almost any deck.) I don't play Krenko because he doesn't have an immediate impact on the board like most of the cards I prefer to play. I understand how delightful Chieftain + Krenko is (by itself killing within 1-2 turns), but the power of the Goblins deck is on the back of its mana-denial + card advantage in the form of threats. The decks that beat Goblins do not care about Krenko. I have 2 Siege-Gang Commanders because the first one always dies, and he's one of the best cards to drop off a turn 1 Lackey. Kiki-Jiki is a nice option and gives you second way to deal with Equipment, which is always nice when you have to beat both an Umezawa's Jitte and a Batterskull, but Jitte is the only must kill, so having 1 Shatter-Goblin is acceptable. Goblin Sharpshooter is one of the worst cards in the deck, but I love the little guy, and he is your absolute best card in a few matchups such as Elves and Charbelcher, while being insane in other creature-heavy matchups, up to and including the mirror.
Anyways, that's the plan this weekend. I had more to say but have lost my train of thought. As for those looking for a new build of Goblins, here is one I've been looking to test:
Izzet Good?
------------
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Tarfire
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
---30 Goblins---
4 AEther Vial
4 Daze
---8 Other Spells---
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishidan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
---22 Land---
The idea behind this build is that you can protect your turn 1 AEther Vial or Goblin Lackey from counterspells, but more importantly removal. This is shown more prominently on the play, where a Daze on an opposing turn 1 Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolt can be game-winning. If that's all Daze did, it would be decent, but it does oh so much more! Now, most of us are accustomed to Daze's backed up by a Wasteland to give it life into the late game. But with both Wasteland and Rishidan Port, these Dazes are near Force of Wills the entire game. That's the idea anyway. Another takeaway from Dazes is that you can possibly cut cards you had in the maindeck as an answer to very specific situations, such as Tuktuk Scrapper. I realize Daze would prefer a lower curve, which is why I've maxed out on the best cheap options available that also provide the quickest kills to make sure Daze doesn't become another one of those washed up child celebrities in almost any game. So again, the benefits are having the best chance to steal wins with Goblin Lackey, and having a decently versatile answer to combo decks and control decks alike.
Thanks for reading!
Welcome aboard sss! We're glad to have you on the forum.
I played a similar Rwg Thalia list last night and it worked out pretty well. I only ran 20 lands though, to keep up the threat density.
2 Wasteland
4 Mountain
4 Cavern
3 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
5 Fetch
It worked well against Team America but the lack of lands suuuucked against the random-ass Pox deck i got paired against! So it goes.
I like the idea of running Ru Daze Goblins. If you get the chance to test it out please let us know how it goes for you.
Got Love for the Daze-Goblins, too. But there are a few things I want to mention.
We win a lot of games through our cardadvange-grind-mid and -lategame. If you run daze, you accept a big Tempo-difficit.
If you focus on getting enablers through such as Lackey against Counter/Spotremovel and Vial against counters, then I think the dazes are better in a list with Warren Instigators and maybe Chrome Moxes, even if that means that you have to cut ports. I love the possibility to get the Sideboardoptions of Tobias Dreger aka. Spell Pierce, Envelop, Gilded Drake. Turning in a deck with Dazes and Spellpierces against combo seems too sweet to me.
There was a list back a few years ago that did really well at the big gp madrid, I still have the list and ill dig it up. It ran forces brainstorm standstill and stifle. I played it on cockatrice and its god hands are rediculous. You could go lackey, force their removal, drop scg and play standstill. That list was a lot less resilient though.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
