[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Nope, not a bad thing. My lists, irregardless of archetype, often run 61. It's the 14 card board that's new. I like it, though. I just don't ever want to play this list without tendrils main.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Wess]

Any thought to cutting Tendrils from the main? With counterspells, the case seems especially clear for cutting it - chances are you can draw a counterspell if they try to plow Griselbrand. Karakas can still be a problem, but that can be overcome with Pithing Needle or a boarded Tendrils.

I know, I know, it's really annoying to combo out without Tendrils. It's very doable though.

80% of all my games I combo out with Tendrils, I rarely ever go for an Emrakul + Griselbrand attack for the win. There are a lot of reasons for this, and its always dependent on the situation. Ie. Sometimes they have a red mana source up, and I don't want to reduce my life total within Bolt range. Or, they have a white mana source, and I might not be able to counter the swords. Or, mostly, I just don't get the black mana source, ritual, entomb and reanimate spell in my draw 7 or 14.

Came top seed in 44 man Daily tourno yesterday, same list, I think I will cut the Children in sideboard for another PON, its been really good so far. I was skeptical of it at first but its been great every time I've drawn it. I usually cut Gitaxian Probe when I sideboard, and/or 1 lim-duls vault, chrome mox, or FOW.

someguy604 (4-0)
Legacy Daily #6488942 on 01/02/2014

Main Deck
60 cards

2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
13 lands

1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
3 creatures

4 Brainstorm
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Lim-DÆl's Vault
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
1 Tendrils of Agony
44 other spells

Sideboard
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Children of Korlis
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Griselbrand
2 Massacre
1 Pact of Negation
2 Pithing Needle
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Swan Song
15 sideboard cards

[Richard Cheese]

Or, mostly, I just don't get the black mana source, ritual, entomb and reanimate spell in my draw 7 or 14.

Are you just naturally drawing Tendrils or Children + Petal a lot then? I feel like statistically the opposite should be way more common, and that's what I've seen in practice as well. That said, it sounds like you are dominating with the deck, and as long as that's the case I'd just stick with it.

[Acclimation]

Are you just naturally drawing Tendrils or Children + Petal a lot then? I feel like statistically the opposite should be way more common, and that's what I've seen in practice as well. That said, it sounds like you are dominating with the deck, and as long as that's the case I'd just stick with it.

I'm also curious about this, I get Emrakul for 85% of my kills, but I wonder if that using aggressive discard clears the way for Emrakul much better than counterspells, and counterspells do a much better job of getting in Tendrils for lethal.

Interesting results though, deck looks solid.

[Richard Cheese]

I'm also curious about this, I get Emrakul for 85% of my kills, but I wonder if that using aggressive discard clears the way for Emrakul much better than counterspells, and counterspells do a much better job of getting in Tendrils for lethal.

Interesting results though, deck looks solid.

To me it's not about fighting hate, it's just that you likely have 3 copies of Entomb and 7 Reanimation effects to draw into, as opposed to 1 each of Tendrils/Children. Granted, entomb/reanimate gets you Children, but in most situations it also just gets you insta-win with Emrakul....Winrakul.

[Freggle]

I've continued tweaking the UB version, I'm especially a lot happier with the sideboard. I play exclusively online, so, the SB is tuned to that meta. I'm 18-2 in tournament matches with this build so far:

Main Deck
60 cards

2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
13 lands

1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
3 creatures

4 Brainstorm
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Lim-DÆl's Vault
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
1 Tendrils of Agony
44 other spells

Sideboard
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Children of Korlis
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Griselbrand
2 Massacre
1 Pact of Negation
2 Pithing Needle
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Swan Song
15 sideboard cards

Wess, this is exciting to see. I was just talking with a friend today about the UB version. Then it got the wheels spinning. I was thinking about what Richard Cheese said back in March. That Pact of Negation could be better for this deck than Force of will. I'd be curious to know how often you use your counters defensively on your opponents turn (to stop x,y,z hate) as opposed to proactively (to protect your combo) on your turn. If it's primarily on your turn than I would think Pact main would be a better choice.

Does it work generally as planned where opponents try and race their hate to the board and slam it into a Daze?

Did you ever play the discard version? ...if so is there any interaction you miss i.e. hand info, or the discard your guy win?

Both versions are powerful I just think in my heart of hearts that the UB version would have the edge because early counters are like time walks whereas discard is just option depletion. People brainstorming their goodies away will always be the bane of discard. Things alway have to make it through the stack.

I really want to buy in on this and help tweak it, but I have to be honest that my heart and mind is too deep into Enchantress to do so right now. If you ever want to test or chat I'm on MTGO as well same name. Freggle.

[D@N]

Hey Dan, cool, probably met you before, good to see another Vancouverite on the board, though, as said I don't play paper magic anymore.

As for the questions, well, I i have to say, firstly, I really don't mean to post to say my build is the best, and this is how it should be, just posting my tuning of the list if anyone wants to test it out. Now, to the specific questions, I've never had my Entomb RFG'd (I assume you're talking about surgical extraction or extirpate) , nor would I care if it was. Surgical and Extirpate aren't widely played, and the only way entomb is in my GY is if I put Gris in there or they discarded it. So, the only way they could get my entomb is if they discarded it, then cast surgical, the only real chance an opponent would have is doing that on turn 1.

As for RFG Gris, again, its never happened. Swords yes, but that is a fluke, and if they run swords or surgical, I put and extra copy of Gris in from the side and keep Emrakul in as an alt.

Also, pull from eternity is terrible, it turns the combo into a 3 or 4 card combo on 3 colours, and if they're RFG'ing you, they are playing disruption.

Is this the same wess that used to hold legacy events DT couple years ago?

I also didnt mean to come off harsh I was just wondering how the counterspells were working for you. I personally like the discard version especially with therapy and probe. I cant count how many times Ive taken a hard counter and was able to still go off with enough mana to pay for the soft ones and opponent was holding. The only thing Im having a problem is fetching then thoughtseizing a red deck of some sort then not wanting to -14 myself for fear of the bolt. Went to scg seattle in nov with the deck and with just making it the week before and playing it on cockatrice a couple times the deck seems absorbedly powerful. I went 5-3 drop only because my last round I had a very frustrating oppo. and still had a 2+ hr drive back to van.

In the local meta here and cockatrice I cant remember how many times Ive been extirpated or surgical'd and have almost wanted to up the pulls to 3 sb but I need the silence for the tes/ant match. Also what kind of sideboarding guide do people follow? I find myself taking out the obvious against decks like rdw and dredge but I usually take out probes and some 1 ofs for silence and such for the blue/fast combo decks. Im running the basic list with discard and my sb is

3 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
1 massacre
3 silence
2 chain of vapour
1 echoing truth
2 pull from eternity

Also congrats to I believe it was richard cheese for the deck tech vid at gp dc nice seeing a fellow source'r slaying mere mortals at a big event.

[Acclimation]

Is this the same wess that used to hold legacy events DT couple years ago?

I also didnt mean to come off harsh I was just wondering how the counterspells were working for you. I personally like the discard version especially with therapy and probe. I cant count how many times Ive taken a hard counter and was able to still go off with enough mana to pay for the soft ones and opponent was holding. The only thing Im having a problem is fetching then thoughtseizing a red deck of some sort then not wanting to -14 myself for fear of the bolt. Went to scg seattle in nov with the deck and with just making it the week before and playing it on cockatrice a couple times the deck seems absorbedly powerful. I went 5-3 drop only because my last round I had a very frustrating oppo. and still had a 2+ hr drive back to van.

In the local meta here and cockatrice I cant remember how many times Ive been extirpated or surgical'd and have almost wanted to up the pulls to 3 sb but I need the silence for the tes/ant match. Also what kind of sideboarding guide do people follow? I find myself taking out the obvious against decks like rdw and dredge but I usually take out probes and some 1 ofs for silence and such for the blue/fast combo decks. Im running the basic list with discard and my sb is

3 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
1 massacre
3 silence
2 chain of vapour
1 echoing truth
2 pull from eternity

Also congrats to I believe it was richard cheese for the deck tech vid at gp dc nice seeing a fellow source'r slaying mere mortals at a big event.

The sideboard I have been using looks something like this:

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
3 Silence
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Serenity
1 Flex Slot (sideboarding notes below assume this to be a Chain of Vapor)

This puts me at 14 cards, since I run 61 main deck. The reason why we have 14 cards is to allow us to take out more cards than we put in, which will have us at 60 cards for certain match ups.

That flex slot is usually one of the following: Chain of Vapor, Surgical Extraction, or Pithing Needle, and changes based on what I feel the meta is.

Chain is the safe choice- It hits all forms of permanent hate that we will come across and which is common for GY based decks (Leyline, gy hating artifacts, RiP, DRS, Scooze, etc), while also hitting storm hate cards (thalia and thalia like tax effects, ethersworn canonist, chalice of the void, trinisphere, etc) AND dealing with random permanents that can give us trouble to buy time (Vial, equipment, delvers, goyfs, planeswalkers, etc). If you don't know what kind of meta you are going to be playing in, Chain of Vapor is the correct choice because it's broad.

Needle is great when you predict a lot of activated ability related hate or decks that Needle can disrupt (Sneak Attack). Turning off Deathrite Shaman, Karakas, and Relic are common uses for me. I get a lot of mileage out of my Needles.

Surgical is self explanatory: when there's a lot of Dredge, Reanimator, and maybe even the mirror match, 3 Surgical has been working well for me.

If you want to run 15 cards, then I would recommend Chain for the first flex slot, then either Needle or Surgical for the last, with a bias towards Needle.

The notes I have for sideboarding are as follows:

UWR blade: -1 Reanimate -4 Probe -1 Ponder -1 LDV
+2 Silence +3 Chain +2 Massacre

Esper blade: +3 Silence +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-4 Probe -1 Reanimate -1 LDV -1 Ponder

RUG: -3 Probe -1 Thoughtseize -2 LDV
+3 Silence +2 chain

Miracle/Countertop: -1 Reanimate -1 Goryo -1 Mox -4 Probe -1 Ponder
+3 Chain +2 Serenity +2 Needle

Death and Taxes: +2 Needle +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-2 LDV -4 Probe -1 Reanimate

Goblins: +2 Needle +3 Chain
- 1 Ponder -2 LDV -3 Probe

Sneak Show (works for Omnitell too): +2 Surgical/or Silence +2 Needle +2 Chain
- 4 Probe -2 LDV -1 Ponder

Jund: -3 Probe
+2 Needle +1 Chain

TES/ANT: -1 Swamp -2 ldv -1 Reanimate OR -1 Swamp
+3 Silence (or 2 Silence/1 Surgical) OR +0 nothing in

Shardless BUG: -3 Probe
+2 Needle +1 Chain

I've been using these since November, and I've had some good success. Maindeck pretty much the same, but I've gone -1 Silence +1 Thoughtseize for the time being.

As far as Pull is concerned, that card is extremely mediocre, if you are having trouble with Extraction effects, try to be more aggressive with your discard against them, or be more careful of when you Entomb. Silence is also an answer to Extraction effects on your combo turn.

Against red decks, you need to be wary of Bolt, but you can't let yourself be afraid of drawing cards. Typically against burn, I'll attempt to set myself up to reanimate Griselbrand multiple turns in a row, and potentially Tendrils if I can. However, I'm a greedy mofo and will just #YOLOSWAG draw myself down low and win with Emrakul more often than not.

Echoing Truth isn't that great in the sideboard, Chain typically gets the job done, and against Chalice decks you should be bringing in Serenity anyway, so the cmc factor shouldn't be a worry.

If need be, I can go into more detail on certain match-ups, these notes were the result of a collaboration between Koby and I (mostly his ideas backed up by my experiences against some of these decks).

[.dk]

The sideboard I have been using looks something like this:

2 Surgical
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
3 Silence
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Serenity
1 Flex Slot

<Lots more amazing words...>

Because no one else has said it yet, this is an awesome post describing how to use a reactive sideboard for this deck. Richard, you should probably update the primer and link to this one from the opening post. :)

[Acclimation]

Because no one else has said it yet, this is an awesome post describing how to use a reactive sideboard for this deck. Richard, you should probably update the primer and link to this one from the opening post. :)

Cleaned up the post, since parts of it was copied/pasted from my Google Drive. Some of it I haven't tested myself, so it could be wrong, but theoretically it should be sound.

[Acclimation]

Anybody have any fun stories or results (good or bad) that they wish to share and potentially get analyzed?

Personally, I have nothing, but since SCG St. Louis is in 5 weeks and is a 20 min drive for me, I'm going to start looking into the format and get some good testing in, so if people have questions about a certain match-up, I will try to get in some games and share results.

[movadomk5]

Anybody have any fun stories or results (good or bad) that they wish to share and potentially get analyzed?

Personally, I have nothing, but since SCG St. Louis is in 5 weeks and is a 20 min drive for me, I'm going to start looking into the format and get some good testing in, so if people have questions about a certain match-up, I will try to get in some games and share results.

I was doing good with the deck then decided to try the counter version posted a few weeks ago. I loved how it played but have decided go to Koby/Acclamation build. I've been struggling tho, not sure it's the meta, deck, or simply play style being aggressive enough with my mulls and plays.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I have something. I switched to reanimator for two weeks and I have to say that I hated it. I can't believe that people will dog on this deck for being "unreliable" and have nothing to say about reanimator epic bad draws. I'm back and won't be leaving again. Just dumb, I don't care if it did top8 in Orlando.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Wess]

Wess, this is exciting to see. I was just talking with a friend today about the UB version. Then it got the wheels spinning. I was thinking about what Richard Cheese said back in March. That Pact of Negation could be better for this deck than Force of will. I'd be curious to know how often you use your counters defensively on your opponents turn (to stop x,y,z hate) as opposed to proactively (to protect your combo) on your turn. If it's primarily on your turn than I would think Pact main would be a better choice.

Does it work generally as planned where opponents try and race their hate to the board and slam it into a Daze?

Did you ever play the discard version? ...if so is there any interaction you miss i.e. hand info, or the discard your guy win?

Both versions are powerful I just think in my heart of hearts that the UB version would have the edge because early counters are like time walks whereas discard is just option depletion. People brainstorming their goodies away will always be the bane of discard. Things alway have to make it through the stack.

I really want to buy in on this and help tweak it, but I have to be honest that my heart and mind is too deep into Enchantress to do so right now. If you ever want to test or chat I'm on MTGO as well same name. Freggle.

Sorry for the late reply...PON is really only a sideboard card, and even then, it competes with Swan Song, Flusterstorm, and spell pierce for the spot, all which may be better. The counters are key in games 2 and 3 to counter your opponents hate, so, PON wouldn't help you. The only decks that PON helps against is control and tempo, where I'm preferring flusterstorm at the moment.

I used to play the discard version, but I only play the UB version now, as its more consistent, faster, and resilient than UBW.

Is this the same wess that used to hold legacy events DT couple years ago?

I also didnt mean to come off harsh I was just wondering how the counterspells were working for you. I personally like the discard version especially with therapy and probe. I cant count how many times Ive taken a hard counter and was able to still go off with enough mana to pay for the soft ones and opponent was holding. The only thing Im having a problem is fetching then thoughtseizing a red deck of some sort then not wanting to -14 myself for fear of the bolt. Went to scg seattle in nov with the deck and with just making it the week before and playing it on cockatrice a couple times the deck seems absorbedly powerful. I went 5-3 drop only because my last round I had a very frustrating oppo. and still had a 2+ hr drive back to van.

In the local meta here and cockatrice I cant remember how many times Ive been extirpated or surgical'd and have almost wanted to up the pulls to 3 sb but I need the silence for the tes/ant match. Also what kind of sideboarding guide do people follow? I find myself taking out the obvious against decks like rdw and dredge but I usually take out probes and some 1 ofs for silence and such for the blue/fast combo decks. Im running the basic list with discard and my sb is

3 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
1 massacre
3 silence
2 chain of vapour
1 echoing truth
2 pull from eternity

Also congrats to I believe it was richard cheese for the deck tech vid at gp dc nice seeing a fellow source'r slaying mere mortals at a big event.

Hey Dan, yeah, that was me. I don't play paper magic anymore because its too time consuming, and there wasn't a good scene here. As for the decks, UB and UBW, maybe it comes down to playstyle, not sure how other people play the deck, but I play it very aggressively, and will take a lot of mulligans to get the right opening hand based on what my opponent is playing.
As for the sideboard, I find pithing needle and massacre usually being my go to cards, but, its decks like death and taxes that I just can't beat, and random stuff, so I'm thinking of testing out some ratchet bombs in the sideboard, because they hit everything. A lot of decks now seem to dedicate 4 sideboard slots for gy hate, and often i'm facing multiple copies. so I'm thinking some sort of board wipe out of the side is necessary. That and you don't know what gy hate your opponent is playing game 2, so you rarely know what is best to side in.

[movadomk5]

Sorry for the late reply...PON is really only a sideboard card, and even then, it competes with Swan Song, Flusterstorm, and spell pierce for the spot, all which may be better. The counters are key in games 2 and 3 to counter your opponents hate, so, PON wouldn't help you. The only decks that PON helps against is control and tempo, where I'm preferring flusterstorm at the moment.

I used to play the discard version, but I only play the UB version now, as its more consistent, faster, and resilient than UBW.



Hey Dan, yeah, that was me. I don't play paper magic anymore because its too time consuming, and there wasn't a good scene here. As for the decks, UB and UBW, maybe it comes down to playstyle, not sure how other people play the deck, but I play it very aggressively, and will take a lot of mulligans to get the right opening hand based on what my opponent is playing.
As for the sideboard, I find pithing needle and massacre usually being my go to cards, but, its decks like death and taxes that I just can't beat, and random stuff, so I'm thinking of testing out some ratchet bombs in the sideboard, because they hit everything. A lot of decks now seem to dedicate 4 sideboard slots for gy hate, and often i'm facing multiple copies. so I'm thinking some sort of board wipe out of the side is necessary. That and you don't know what gy hate your opponent is playing game 2, so you rarely know what is best to side in.

So in your "UB" version the only way to get children out is via petal or reanimate?

[D@N]

Yes the scene in vancouver was pretty bad when you played, and as far as time comsuming dont the dailies takes like 4+ hours?. Either way recently we have been getting a larger crowd, like we had 20 something for an event today at surrey place mall. Although i didnt play tin fins today i should have. I think your bad m/u with death and taxes comes from little discard and relying on just entomb for bodies in yard, but if you are doing good with the deck then stick with it. We are also trying to get a big turnout next weekend for the gp since we can get all the vancouver and victoria/surrounding players in it. Last gp i think we had a 40+ player side event.

[Acclimation]

As for the sideboard, I find pithing needle and massacre usually being my go to cards, but, its decks like death and taxes that I just can't beat, and random stuff, so I'm thinking of testing out some ratchet bombs in the sideboard, because they hit everything. A lot of decks now seem to dedicate 4 sideboard slots for gy hate, and often i'm facing multiple copies. so I'm thinking some sort of board wipe out of the side is necessary. That and you don't know what gy hate your opponent is playing game 2, so you rarely know what is best to side in.

Honestly, if you don't know what hate they could be bringing in, the best plan is to keep it simple- don't board in much, maybe 2 Chain of Vapor, since it will deal with any hate beyond Surgical and Extirpate.

For the most part though, you can guess the hate based on the deck:

Relic: I see this in Death and Taxes, Sneak and Show, Merfolk, Goblins, and occasionally Jund, RUG, and Stoneblade

Nihil Spellbomb: Jund, Shardless BUG, and other black based midrange decks.

Tormod's Crypt: Most decks don't play this guy, since Relic and Spellbomb cantrip, but sometimes it shows up. This is one you plan around in game 3.

Rest in Peace: White based control decks, D&T, MiracleTop, Stoneblade, Maverick

Deathrite Shaman: Any deck with creatures in G/B. This guy is mainboard, so you will see it.

Scavenging Ooze: Maverick, sometimes Jund.

Leyline of the Void: Dredge, some Pox lists. This one is a favorite of casual players, so this one could come out of nowhere.

Bojuka Bog: Land shenanigans decks, if you see Life from the Loam, expect one of these guys as at least a one of.

Karakas: (not gy hate) if you see a Loam, you can expect a Karakas as well, otherwise D&T, Maverick, and sometimes Stoneblade and Miracle decks run this guy.

Surgical: Lots of combo decks will play this one, as will Jund and Shardless. I've also seen random other decks run this, since it is essentially free.

Extirpate: Black based control decks play this one, but it's less common.

Mindbreak Trap: Scrub card for scrub players. Seriously though, you will see this in decks that lack stack control, or in decks of people that OMIGAWDIHATESTORM. If there is a card that will catch you with your pants down, it's this one.

Grafdigger's Cage: I've only seen this one in RUG, but I can imagine it showing up in UWR lists as well. Usually a one of in RUG sideboards, this is why I bring in Chain of Vapor against them.


Needle handles most of these, but require knowledge or good guesses to correctly anticipate what to name if you are going in blind. Chain deals with the same ones as Needle, minus the lands, but can handle Grafdigger, RiP, and Leyline. The remainder are reactive, and you should be able to hit them with Discard or counterspells depending on your protection package.

[entreri_fans]

so this is really mini report in a 8-man tournament. It's my first time to play Tin-Fins in real match.

My list is just the standard 60/15. The SB choices are according to Acclimation's post just in this page, thanks Acclimation!

Round 1 Dredge. Win the roll and I am on the play.

Game1, my opening hand is something like 2 lands, entomb, probe, brainstorm, lotus, petal, ponder. solid keep I think. I go probe turn 1, seeing my opponent has a therapy, 2 dredgers and random stuffs, and probe draws me a Goryo's Revenge. so I play a land and says go. My opponent thinks I am playing the deck I always play(Reanimator), so he therapy me. I respond, entombing Griselbrand and let therapy resolve. He blind therapy for animate dead, which I don't have. And in turn 2, I get Griselbrand into play and draw my whole deck, leading to a lethal tendrils.

Sideboard: Although I have multiple surgical extractions in my SB, I just want to try to race Dredge this time. So I gamble and don't sideboard anything.

Game2, I keep a hand of something like land, land, petal, entomb, thoughtseize, brainstorm, shallow grave. so a it's a turn 2 kill if unmolested. My opponent goes first. Turn 1, he plays a city of brass and pass the turn. I don't think my opponent will need to SB something to fight another grave-deck, because dredge is ridiculously fast itself. But it is also not reasonable for him to keep a hand that does nothing turn 1, espcially against a really fast combo deck. So I thoughtseize him turn 1 and find a surgical extraction(!), discard it for sure. I play a petal and says go. My opponent turn 2 dredges something like 15+ cards into his graveyard, only to find one therapy. He plays an putrid imp and flashback the therapy at me. I again, entomb Griselbrand and let therapy resolve. He names Goryo's Revengence and I don't have again. So in my turn 2, I shallow grave the demon, drawing something like 21 cards, putting Emmy into play, and finally swing for 22. Really a lucky game, I avoid being caught for 2 times, really lucky


Round 2 Mono Red Sneak Attack. Lose the roll and on the draw.

Game1, I thought the guy is playing 12post(which he usually plays), so I thought it could be a good matchup, cauz I am much faster. I keep a hand of 2 land, thoughtseize, therapy, 2 shallow grave, ponder. So I thought it's going to be a grinding game. But his turn 1 chalice@1 is holy crap. so I only play a land. He trinisphere turn 2. I play a land. He Magus of Moon turn 3. I play a land. He turn 4 Through the Breach into Worldspine Wurm, and I am dead.

Sideboard: I think I board in 3 Serenity and 2 chain of vapor. Board out 4 probe and 1 therapy I think.

Game2, I keep a hand of a turn 2 kill: entomb, shallow grave, land, petal and other cards(but no SB pieces). I can't mull that cauz if he don't play something devastating turn 1, he's dead. So I gamble. Turns out he doesn't play any spell in his first turn. So I go off in my turn 2. I draw something like 28 cards but fails to finish him off. So after attcking him with my demon, I thoughtseize him, discarding something irrelevant. He plays nothing turn 2. So in my turn 3, I shallow grave Emmy and kill him.

Game3, I think I have a hand of 2 land, Griselbrand, thoughtseize, therapy, shallow grave, petal. I don't know if I should keep. But I finally keep cauz I have at least a way to discard Griselbrand(I'm on the draw now), and still have a way to go off turn 2(because of petal). As expected, my opponent chalice@1 in his first turn. I do nothing and naturally discard the demon in my discard step. He plays a land his turn 2 and says go. So I shallow grave my demon. But I still can't finish the combo under the chalice@1(uncastable ritual and children), after drawing 21 cards. So I cabal therapy him(get countered), flashback therapy(get countered) and get Griselbrand into graveyard. With enough reanimating spells in my hand, I decide to kill him after 2 attacks in following turns. But he turn 3 Through the Breach into Emmy and I am dead.

Then I drop because of personal affairs.

I am a little disappointed with my defeat against my round 2 opponent. In the 2 games I lost, He both draws the hate pieces and combo pieces. Without either of them, I can win. But that's just magic

Anyway, Tin-Fins is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand I am lucky, because in the games I win, I always draw entomb. But even if without entomb there are always other ways in discarding the demon. Thanks for all you innovators who optimize the deck

Besides, do you have some suggestions in fighting the not so popular(but still troublesome) chalice aggro decks? I will be grateful for any opinion

[Acclimation]

My list is just the standard 60/15. The SB choices are according to Acclimation's post just in this page, thanks Acclimation!

:D

Round 2 Mono Red Sneak Attack. Lose the roll and on the draw.

Game1, I thought the guy is playing 12post(which he usually plays), so I thought it could be a good matchup, cauz I am much faster. I keep a hand of 2 land, thoughtseize, therapy, 2 shallow grave, ponder. So I thought it's going to be a grinding game. But his turn 1 chalice@1 is holy crap. so I only play a land. He trinisphere turn 2. I play a land. He Magus of Moon turn 3. I play a land. He turn 4 Through the Breach into Worldspine Wurm, and I am dead.

Sideboard: I think I board in 3 Serenity and 2 chain of vapor. Board out 4 probe and 1 therapy I think.

Game2, I keep a hand of a turn 2 kill: entomb, shallow grave, land, petal and other cards(but no SB pieces). I can't mull that cauz if he don't play something devastating turn 1, he's dead. So I gamble. Turns out he doesn't play any spell in his first turn. So I go off in my turn 2. I draw something like 28 cards but fails to finish him off. So after attcking him with my demon, I thoughtseize him, discarding something irrelevant. He plays nothing turn 2. So in my turn 3, I shallow grave Emmy and kill him.

Game3, I think I have a hand of 2 land, Griselbrand, thoughtseize, therapy, shallow grave, petal. I don't know if I should keep. But I finally keep cauz I have at least a way to discard Griselbrand(I'm on the draw now), and still have a way to go off turn 2(because of petal). As expected, my opponent chalice@1 in his first turn. I do nothing and naturally discard the demon in my discard step. He plays a land his turn 2 and says go. So I shallow grave my demon. But I still can't finish the combo under the chalice@1(uncastable ritual and children), after drawing 21 cards. So I cabal therapy him(get countered), flashback therapy(get countered) and get Griselbrand into graveyard. With enough reanimating spells in my hand, I decide to kill him after 2 attacks in following turns. But he turn 3 Through the Breach into Emmy and I am dead.

Then I drop because of personal affairs.

I am a little disappointed with my defeat against my round 2 opponent. In the 2 games I lost, He both draws the hate pieces and combo pieces. Without either of them, I can win. But that's just magic

Anyway, Tin-Fins is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand I am lucky, because in the games I win, I always draw entomb. But even if without entomb there are always other ways in discarding the demon. Thanks for all you innovators who optimize the deck

Besides, do you have some suggestions in fighting the not so popular(but still troublesome) chalice aggro decks? I will be grateful for any opinion

Mono Red sneak Attack is a tricky one. It's a jungle deck- one that you tend to see after you go x-2 early on in a tournament. A good friend of mine has the deck (he's had multiple Deck techs at Opens with the deck), so we've played just some quick no-sb rounds in between rounds at tournaments. I think we ended up breaking even, as I kept some garbage hands.

Since they have Chalice and Blood Moon and Trinisphere main deck in some number for each, it's really important to have that early discard to keep those lock pieces off the field.

We're about the same speed as they are, a bit faster if anything, but their disruption can lock us out of the game completely.

I think that for this match-up, I would go something like: -1 Underground -1 Ponder -2 Lim-Dul's Vault +2 Serenity +1 Chain of Vapor

We want to slim the deck to 60 cards and be quick, while still having the ability to beat the Hate Rocks they have.

Normally, I would side out a Swamp, but due to Blood Moon, I leave it in and remove a Sea. Ponder and LDV are a bit slow for this match, so we take them out. Serenity and Chain keep us in games that Chalice comes down.

Magus of the Moon is awkward for us to deal with outside of Chain of Vapor, but with Petals and Mox, it shouldn't be too hard to combo through it.

I should see my friend the weekend of the Open in STL, so I can get some games in and see if my thoughts pan out.

[SilkSpectre]

Hello everyone,

I just started building this deck and am excited to play with it. As you might have guessed, I got some questions regarding the manabase. I can get a Tundra, a Scrubland and two Underground Seas, but I only play with Modern fetches, so no Polluted Delta's for me. How would you build a manabase without the ally colored fetches? Thanks!