[Deck] UBGx Landstill

[Adryan]

-Some thoughts from someone who played this deck a lot on Magic Online with good success a few months ago:

- Against Miracle slamming a Turn 2 Standstill when they have SDT is a good way to lose the game, unless the miracle pilot is bad.
They make more land drops, find more relevant stuff (counter, threats) and will EOT Brainstorm or StP your Mishra's Factory when you have 7 cards. Needless to say that with all the card quality they got you will lose the counterwar for their jace. GG.

- I don't like Deathrite Shaman/ Baleful Strix in this deck because then you cant play your best Removal, which is Innocent Blood.

- I see a lot of people playing 3 Wastelands, which in my eyes is just wrong. The losses you get because you are colorscrewed will occur much more often than the benefit you get from punishing your opponent for keeping a bad hand.

My list plays 1 Cepahild Coliseum, 1 Cabal Pit and 1 Wasteland and 1 Intuition to search for them with Life from the Loam. Both lands produce mana and are really powerful with Life from the Loam. Cabal Pit kills almost every threat against Jund, Death and Taxes etc.
Cephalid Coliseum is an Ancestral Recall every turn with Life from the Loam. These are tools a Controldeck wants. Colorproducing Lands that have a powerful effect, not random 0 mana Stone Rains that make your manabase worse. I understand the fact that this deck needs Wasteland against opposing Manlands, especially with Standstill, but few decks play Manlands anyway and only playing 1 Wasteland will result in a more consistent and powerful deck.

[pandaman]

Adryan, mind sharing your current list? I, too, am more about creature-less Landstill builds, at least pre-board.

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[Admiral_Arzar]

I'm looking into building this deck as it seems like a good metagame predator against Miracles, TNN.dec, etc. My question for y'all is, why no Sensei's Divining Top? It allows insane sculpting under Standstill and also provides the ability to sideboard Counterbalance, which is great hate against Burn and Storm to name a couple of matchups.

[Nastaboi]

My question for y'all is, why no Sensei's Divining Top? It allows insane sculpting under Standstill and also provides the ability to sideboard Counterbalance, which is great hate against Burn and Storm to name a couple of matchups.

1) It's not blue. I'd play Ponder before this to keep blue count up.

2) The deck already has 4 Brainstorm, 4 Standstill and Jaces. Which of these are you going to cut? You have to play spells with an effect, too.

3) With the amount of card draw, you don't need that much selection as you'll eventually draw what you need.

4) The deck durdles already much and has time management problems. I don't want another thing that has to be executed every turn.

5) Counterbalance would be bad in all matchups where you keep Deeds in. I like more dedicated SB cards against Storm and Burn (some of which also overlap).

8) I still do not understand Spell Snare. It is good when we are on draw and they play something turn two, against Mystic, Snapcaster, Hymn, Infernal Tutor... What else? Pierce counters everything (non-creature) early on (SDT, Hymn, Vial, Thoughtseize, Natural Order, Jace; after board Choke, CAtaclysm...) and almost everything that cost 3+ later (with wasteland). I am not criticising - I just want to understand :-)

Spells I like to counter with Snare:

1) Hymn. The most common target. Pierce usually works here too, but not allways.
2) Infernal Tutor. Would be #1 but is not that played. Spell Pierce would not work most of time as they can pay for it and still go off.
3) Tarmogoyf
4) Snapcaster
5) Dark Confidant/Exhume/Library/Rest in Peace/Price of Progress/other seldom played good card
6) Stoneforge Mystic. I don't care if they resolve one as I can just deal with the equipment, but I'll still counter it if I happen to have it.

Spells I'd like to counter with Pierce:

1) Sneak Attack
2) Show and Tell
3) Hymn
4) Top (works only on play)
5) Natural Order

So there is one matchup where Pierce is considerably better. But the main problem is that you want to drag game long, and while you have to play cheap spells that get you there, you want those spells to be relevant late game also. Snare and Disfigure still trade 1-for-1 late turns when Pierce will be Force fodder at best. Snare is the worst card in the deck, but its alternative needs to be something 1) blue 2) cheap 3) preferably distruptive. I do have played Pierce, found it really dissapointing and cut it. Later I added two Spell Snares and started winning.

[Tea]

But most of the Spell Snare targets can also be dealt with by any normal removal spell, whereas most of the Spell Pierce targets are combo pieces. Not that I'm a proponent of Spell Pierce, but Spell Snare is clearly - as you've said - the weakest card in the deck.

[Nastaboi]

If they only were a cheap blue removal spell. Just waiting them to print that blue lightning bolt.

[warfordium]

If they only were a cheap blue removal spell. Just waiting them to print that blue lightning bolt.

but then surely one would just play UR Delver…

[Jay_Gatz]

Spell snare is the most efficient card to keep the board clear for us to play a turn two standstill, especially on the draw.

[th3 w1z4rd]

Spell snare is the most efficient card to keep the board clear for us to play a turn two standstill, especially on the draw.

Playing a turn 2 Standstill is not the objective. Playing a Standstill in a situation where we either have strong board advantage or can leverage the Standstill into a significant resource advantage is the objective. I can't tell you how many times turn 2 Standstill didn't go so well for me when I was a noob playing this deck. Even turn 2 Mishra's Factory into Standstill when the opponent has no board presence is no guarantee of success considering the number of decks that play Wastelands and the variance inherent in the game. Sometimes you play a turn 2 Standstill and your opponent laughs as you are forced to discard cards as they make twice as many land drops as you do. Them's the bad beats but my point is Standstill needs to wait until you really want it, like Brainstorm. I used to be so hardcore about card advantage that I ran 3 Standstill 3 Ancestral Vision 4 Brainstorm but I found it rather ineffective as well as a nonbo. Here is my newest list that I have been having great success with.

3 Mishra's Factory
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Wasteland
1 Bayou

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Diabolic Edict

2 Tombstalker

1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Innocent Blood

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless

SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

[Jay_Gatz]

I didn't say it was always the goal, I was pointing out a strength of spell snare


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[Adryan]

Because some guys asked me a while ago about my decklist. I played and tuned it some months ago, won some local events, some dailies on Magic Online etc. but nothing really big. I think it's a really powerful but complicated deck, and deserves to be played a lot more. I stopped playing because there are some fringe decks like Goblins, Burn, Painter, Dredge,Loamdecks etc. that are very hard to win. You also lose to some Wasteland nutdraws, because you can't (yes you can't, it makes your deck less consistent) play basics. Those MU's felt very disappointing and i didn't want to hope for good pairings every tournament. Nevertheless it's a really strong deck that has a positive MU against the whole DTB section and even crushes some DTB like Death and Taxes and Jund. About the last I'm totally sure, because i played and tested it a lot. One way to improve all the bad MU's is to somehow incorporate the Thespian Stage Combo. Before really tuning such a list i switched to Miracles, which doesn't have so many good MU's like this deck but has a lot of 50/50 MU's and very few bad MU's. I would have switched in a heartbeat at GP Paris Day 2 to this deck, because when the stupid players that think that Dredge, Burn, Goblins, Loamdecks etc. are competitive decks are gone then it's much better than Miracles.

Anyway here is my list:

1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Cabal Pit
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
4 Underground Sea

2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Innocent Blood
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Counterspell
3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force of Will
3 Standstill
1 Worm Harvest
4 Jace TMS
1 Liliana
1 Life from the Loam
1 Intuition

SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Flusterstorm
4 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
__________

SB may seem kind of dumb, but it was the best i could get figured out. You have to accept your bad MU's, there is no point in making an overall 10/90 with f. ex. 5 slots a 30/70 MU. Just concentrate yourself on the good MU's like the whole DTB section and combo (with the SB it's an overall very good MU). Please also note that this build was before TNN so playing 2 Lilianas and 3 Jace is better.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, ask me on Magic Online or post here.

[H]

A little late, but I took BUG Landstill to SCG Dallas two weeks ago and took 49th place with a 6-3 record.

I essentially played Nastaboi's list:


4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Vendillion Clique

3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Standstill
3 Pernicious Deed

4 brainstorm
2 Spell Snare
2 Disfigure
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

3 Thoughtseize
1 Life From the Loam

Side:
1 Disfigure
1 Golgari Charm
1 Life From the Loam
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Surgical
1 Swan Song


My losses were to UR Delver, Miracles, and Elves. I beat D&T, Burn, RUG Delver, Reanimator, and Mono-Red Sneak Attack.

The loss to UR was due to me being an idiot and not boarding in Surgicals to get rid of Prices, so eventually he draws enough Snapcasters to Price me out.

The loss to Elves I essentially got nut drawn, every time I countered or made him discard a Glimpse or NO, he drew another or just drew the Craterhoof. To be honest, I am pretty sure I just don't know how to beat Elves, since it seems I should actually have a pretty decent matchup but I just never win.

The Miracles loss bothered me, it really should have been a draw, but I misplayed in turn one of extras, not tapping my DRS for mana to activate a Factory after my opponent had Brainstormed. I forgot that he had because I felt like I could win and if I had my Trop untapped, I could have Spell Snared his Stoneforge that he played after a Miracled Terminus and it would have ended up a draw.

Force of Will was very underwhelming on the day, it mostly was in my hand with no other Blue card, but it did get hardcast a few times on the day. I am going to continue to try to refine this deck, I feel like too often though, I had too many Standstills in my hand that I simply did not want to cast.

I am going to be testing the following changes to the main:
-1 DRS
+1 Trop
-1 Standstill
-1 Deed
-1 Jace
-1 Liliana
+1 Clique
+3 Goyf
-4 Force
+2 Sensei's Diving Top
+2 Spell Pierce

Some of these are kind of just (bad) ideas but I want to see how they work out. I am going to put the Forces into the board, probably with the 3rd Deed. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[Adryan]

I think a sample size of one tournament is too low to make more than 1-2 changes to a decklist.

[H]

I think a sample size of one tournament is too low to make more than 1-2 changes to a decklist.

I actually agree 100%, that was too much. I still did well in my local, but I will be rolling back the changes, with the exception of the Tops. Those preformed extremely well and did exactly what I felt I needed them to: dig for answers, aid in finding places to dredge profitably, and make land drops.

[theBloody]

Long time no see my fellow BUG controllers.

Note:
My decks contains exactly zero Standstills. I scrolled back in this thread and it seems that there were lists without Standstills before (eg. Ancestral Visions version) so I hope you wouldn't mind my post here. I played Standstills and Mishra's Factory but weren't satisfied with them recently.

I played in small tournament. Total of 26 participants, top 12 prizes (organisator expected more players :-(). Cut to top 8.
I ended out of top 8 (9th) as the only one with 4:2 record. So yeah, that is it.

Anyway. I'm very satisfied with list so that is the main reason for my post. I took inspiration mainly from here. Game plan was to stabilize board and resolve Jace or Intuition for the win. I had two reasons to play Intuition package: 1) I wanted to have access to quick win condition in mid to late game (Worm Harvest), 2) Access to Loam + Wasteland combo to lock out greedy manabases. Worm Harvest also give me nice edge against control decks.

NO Creatures BUG:

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress

4 Innocent Blood
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Intuition
1 Worm Harvest
1 Life from the Loam

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Notion Thief
SB: 1 Raven's Crime
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Drown In Sorrow


Matches:
R1: RUG Thresh - 1:2 loss - G1 win (Worm Harvest), G2 loss (double Delver), G3 (Mongoose)
R2: BW Stoneblade - 2:1 win - G1 loss (Thalia + Karakas), G2 win (Survived Cataclysm thanks to Loam + Innocent Blood and Worm Harvested him), G3 win (Jace's ultimate)
R3: Shardless BUG - 1:2 loss - G1 loss (just Shardless things), G2 win (Notion Thief his Visions), G3 loss (my Deed got Golgari Charmed)
R4: Mono U Ninjastill - 2:1 win - G1 loss (Ninjaed), G2 win (Notion Thief), G3 win (Jace's ultimate)
R5: Shardless BUGr - 2:0 win - G1 + G2 win (he didn't found answer to my Tar Pit)
R6: Deathblade - 2:0 win - G1 win (double Wasteland + Jace's ultimate), G2 win (Loam + Wasteland + Harvest)

As you can see I didn't faced any pure control or tribal or combo deck. This should be noted when evaluating deck.

Today's pros and cons:
+ Notion Thief - Not gonna cut him. I was expecting more Treasure Cruise (only Ninjastill played it), but he still rocked because of Visions, Jaces and Brainstorms.
+ Innocent Blood - The only situation where I wished to have Disfigure instead was against manlands. Wasteland solved this problem (if found in time).
+ No creatures - People held dead Decays and Swords all day long. They often didn't siding them out because they didn't saw enough on my deck.
+ Loam + Waste - Resolving Intuition for ultimate blowout.

- Spell Pierce - Very underwhelming. Sided them out almost every game. Guess they are for other matchups.

Conclusions:
The deck felt very strong. Especialy against greedy manabase. Basics where relevant because they let me develop board, cast Intuition for Loam, cast Deed and other stuff. The changes I'm considering right now are -1 Island +1 Wasteland and -1 Duress (md) +1 Thoughtseize. Also I will keep testing Ponder. This slot is potentially for Dig Through Time/Treasure Cruise.

[FoolofaTook]

@theBloody

That's an interesting list however you're going to go to time against Miracles way too often and you're going to lose game 1 against Miracles while going to time way too often.

The list does have play against a lot of the meta but not being able to put Miracles down in a timely fashion is really bad in this meta. The Elves matchup is a bit iffy also, although if you get them past turn 3 you've won the game.

[Bobmans]

So anyone still running/working on this deck? Seems awesome, but a bit slow in the current meta?

[nodahero]

I'm sure there are however, in the current format the deck lacks the efficency to go toe-to-toe with its tier 1 competition.

The deck needs to lower its curve to have a chance in the current environment and that simply isn't possible in this deck.

[H]

So anyone still running/working on this deck? Seems awesome, but a bit slow in the current meta?

I haven't sleeved this up in a while, but the UR match up was bad before the printing of Cruise. I can't only imagine how bad it is now.

Problem is this is an attrition deck, which isn't really all that effective if your opponent can just draw 3 a few times. Versus Stoneforge decks you'll still be in a favorable position as long as you can somehow deny them Cruise.

I had thoughts of a redesigned version of this, without Standstill and adding Cruise, but I never got the time to work on it. The more I think of it though, the more I feel it wouldn't make any of the problem matchups better.

[Nastaboi]

Me and my friend took the deck to a 100-player event. I went 5-2 and my friend started 4-0 beating three or four UR Delvers only to lost final three rounds. I lost 1st round against UR Delver to a small mistake and won against Sneak and Show, Stoneblade, Burn, Reset High Tide and Painter. 2nd loss was against Infect. The list:

4/2/2 fetch
2/2/2 dual
1 island
1 swamp
3 mishra
2 tar pit
2 waste

4 shaman
3 lily
3 jace

2 seize
2 pierce
3 disfigure
3 decay
3 deed
4 force

4 bs
3 standstill
2 cruise
1 loam

SB:
3 tarmo
3 BEB
2 swan song
2 flusterstorm
2 nihil spellbomb
2 clique
1 disfigure

- I got sick losing to Blood Moon and decided to add some basics, cutting a colorless land and thus keeping the same colored mana ratios. The mana was good, but I really missed 3rd wasteland. I will try 3 waste/2 factory split next and see how it fares.

- I switched back from Snares to Pierces as my 1cc counter of choise and while I still don't love them, I think I'm gonna hold on Pierces for a while.

- I went down to two Thoughtseize and upped MD Disfigure count. As it turned out, UR Delver was actually a good matchup now while Miracles have become stronger and more difficult matchup with MD Pyroblasts and such. I think I'll revert the black 1cc split back and might even add another Thoughtseize on board.

- I went overboard with Swan Songs against Sneak and Show. With MD Pierces and manabase that don't autolose to Blood Moon, they are no longer needed.

- I thought I might use Spellbombs to keep opposing Cruises in check in addition to them being there against dedicated graveyard decks, but they were too low of an impact to find room in those matches. I'll switch back to Surgicals which are better against Loam decks.

- I lost to Infect. The deck is really scary. I was suggested Darkblast which should be good against UR Delver while not that good against other Delver decks. Additional Wasteland helps too against their best threat.

Suggested new list:

4/2/2 fetch
2/2/2 dual
1 island
1 swamp
2 mishra
2 tar pit
3 waste

4 shaman
3 lily
3 jace

3 seize
2 pierce
2 disfigure
3 decay
3 deed
4 force

4 bs
3 standstill
2 cruise
1 loam

SB:
3 tarmo
3 BEB
0 swan song
1 seize
2 flusterstorm
0 nihil spellbomb
2 surgical
2 clique
1 disfigure
1 darkblast