[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Lemnear]

When you are going to sideboard in the land, do you want to increase the land count or hit a fetch land?

You side in the SB Tropical/Bayou to increase the land density in longer games (Removing Moxen), against Tempo (Stilfe/Wasteland) and for matchups in which you want to also side in the Decays/Xantids.

Recently just started playing this deck and I was wondering of the third Abrupt Decay is really necessary in the sideboard, I feel like a chain of vapor or Grapeshot is a better choice to play.

The moment you play against Chalice or Counterbalance and not have at least 3 Decays would be the moment you regret putting chains/Grapeshot into your SB. With the current number of Miracles in Europe atm having 3 Decays is justified.

CoV is a tool against Thalia, Eidolon, Ruric That or Leyline of Sanctity, but between Massacre and Vapor Snag plus the fact that Leyline vanished and D&T/Burn can be simply overwhelmed by speed, siding in stuff like CoV isn't a neccessarity. Grapeshots value was waning since the hatebear to beat wasn't named Gaddock Teeg anymore, but Meddling Mage and Ethersworn Canonist took it's place. Unless the trend is reversing, I'm sure Massacre serves you better than Grapeshot.


PS: Dear Folks, how relevant has the Void Snare/SB Discard/SB Business spell of choice been for you in the last months?

[Bryant Cook]

PS: Dear Folks, how relevant has the Void Snare/SB Discard/SB Business spell of choice been for you in the last months?

I think Void Snare is a necessary spell without Chains/Grapeshot. I haven't been impressed by the sideboard discard spell in quite some time (It's worth noting, I end up shaving a Therapy when siding against Miracles to create a sideboard discard spell - Duress hitting anything on turn one is more valuable in this match-up) and is this business spell Infernal/Cruise? The last few times I've played TES, I used the Tutor in the sideboard more than once each event - Granted, it's been a month since I've cast Dark Ritual. I hope my cards arrive back to me soon (I sent out stuff to get signed)!

[Lemnear]

I think Void Snare is a necessary spell without Chains/Grapeshot. I haven't been impressed by the sideboard discard spell in quite some time (It's worth noting, I end up shaving a Therapy when siding against Miracles to create a sideboard discard spell - Duress hitting anything on turn one is more valuable in this match-up) and is this business spell Infernal/Cruise? The last few times I've played TES, I used the Tutor in the sideboard more than once each event - Granted, it's been a month since I've cast Dark Ritual. I hope my cards arrive back to me soon (I sent out stuff to get signed)!

I know you are stripped from your cards atm and that you cutted the SB discard. I just thought about it being time to take a closer look at the SB once more and see if we still need all cards or if they are still good enough and decided to ask around :)

The point about Void Snare brought up lately of being maybe too mana/spell intense to handle certain hate like Ruric Thar or Eidolon made me thinking about the naked number of times I really wished for Snare in the last months, compared to siding it in against D&T or Burn to replace the 2 MB Duresses of mine. Then I read Rodrigos report about his lost win-and-in the previous weekend against Burn and pondered if I don't want to have CoV back in my board, so I was looking for input for my Brainstorming.

I named it the "SB Business spell" as I know we have people in the forum not running either IT or TC in that place but Bribery, Dim.Ret. or other stuff and I want to hear their thoughts as well. Personally, the TC-plan is a fine one even if I have to ask myself if I can abuse it nearly as good as most of the upcoming Delver decks and if it isn't kinda redundant with PIF (my tests so far say no due to available mana, but who knows).

[grmpytopdecker]

Long time lurker here. I've been testing Bryant's latest list (with Trop instead of Bayou) as prep for GPNJ. I have played a ton against Delver decks running Treasure Cruise and wondering if a Tormod's Crypt in the sideboard is worth packing.

I am an advanced beginner with the deck so take that into consideration. I've been 40-60 in my games against cruise decks. I expect a ton of them in New Jersey.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Holly]

No.

[Lemnear]

Long time lurker here. I've been testing Bryant's latest list (with Trop instead of Bayou) as prep for GPNJ. I have played a ton against Delver decks running Treasure Cruise and wondering if a Tormod's Crypt in the sideboard is worth packing.

I am an advanced beginner with the deck so take that into consideration. I've been 40-60 in my games against cruise decks. I expect a ton of them in New Jersey.


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In short: you cannot afford to fight treasure cruise and need to get going before they burry you with the cardadvantage. Fortunately running TC caused Delver to reduce their Spell Pierces, Stifles and Wastelands a bit, which is fine for your gameplan of dumping Goblins quickly.

Edit: if you want some radical solution for Mongoose, Tarmogoyf, Treasure Cruise, Dredge, Reanimator, ANT, etc. try Planar Void

[culby218]

Is anyone playing at Eternal Weekend? I have been getting my reps in with TES for SCG Columbus. I must say The Bayou is def the way to go.

[sawatarix]

with additional lands in the sideboard this deck gets the potential to fight in the long game, i like it.
Sounds like a Belcher-ish Maindeck with an transformation Sideboard into a Stormdeck like Ant (we are slowly getting there)

Reminds me at my Ant Deck with 2 Ad Nauseam in order to execute the combo on Turn 1-2 more often.

[Lemnear]

with additional lands in the sideboard this deck gets the potential to fight in the long game, i like it.
Sounds like a Belcher-ish Maindeck with an transformation Sideboard into a Stormdeck like Ant (we are slowly getting there)

Reminds me at my Ant Deck with 2 Ad Nauseam in order to execute the combo on Turn 1-2 more often.

It was ever just a question of Belcher-Potential vs. Lategame Power with the respective disadvantages of either running "bad" cards like Moxen/RoF on one side of the spectrum and mediocre Ad Nauseams/graveyard dependency on the other., as you know. Maybe WotC does us at some point the favor of printing a card that finally melts both decks together.

[wonderPreaux]

It was ever just a question of Belcher-Potential vs. Lategame Power with the respective disadvantages of either running "bad" cards like Moxen/RoF on one side of the spectrum and mediocre Ad Nauseams/graveyard dependency on the other., as you know. Maybe WotC does us at some point the favor of printing a card that finally melts both decks together.

They could give us back mind's desire >>

That can happen, right?

Though, this Khan's block is designed a lot like Alara, and we got Ad Nauseam in Alara... I'm willing to hope we get something cool

[PopyMartins]

Hello Guys!

I picked the deck in the middle of the present year and been playing monthly legacy events with it since then.
I run the list from 8/5/14 (except I run 1 of each blue fetches) and I've been reading this thread since the day I picked the deck, looking for improvements.

PS: Dear Folks, how relevant has the Void Snare/SB Discard/SB Business spell of choice been for you in the last months?

Personally, I've used Void Snare as a 3rd CoV against Burn decks. I still both CoVs, not sure if I should, since there's no more D&T in my metagame, but sometimes I run into some random Bant decks that run both Thalia and Gaddok (and maybe Canonist),
Besides that, I rarely tutor for Void Snare, but if I would cut CoVs, I'd keep it in the SB.

About the Discard spell, I rarely use it. Mainly in longer games against counter-heavy decks, when I have a second tutor and no other discard spells in hand. We might have a slot here. What would go in that slot?

My SB Busines spell is IT, and I'm 100% with Bryant here. It's a must and won me many games.


My main concernment is about Bayou x Tropical. Bryant said he is 100% sure about that change, Why's that, and why we're considering moving it to the sideboard, again?
Another land-issue, what about the basics? I've tested them online and got in some weird situatins where I could've won if I had another land (rainbow or any dual-land). I really like Gemstone (I know they suck) and I really need someone to evaluate the ups and downs of adding more fetches/basics instead of the full set of Gemstones.

Btw, this is my first post in this thread, probably I'll be more active and willing to improve the deck from now on. Hope you like my contribuitions! (:

[Lemnear]

Hello Guys!

I picked the deck in the middle of the present year and been playing monthly legacy events with it since then.

I run the list from 8/5/14 (except I run 1 of each blue fetches) and I've been reading this thread since the day I picked the deck, looking for improvements.

Welcome on board :)

Personally, I've used Void Snare as a 3rd CoV against Burn decks. I still both CoVs, not sure if I should, since there's no more D&T in my metagame, but sometimes I run into some random Bant decks that run both Thalia and Gaddok (and maybe Canonist),
Besides that, I rarely tutor for Void Snare, but if I would cut CoVs, I'd keep it in the SB.

Boarding the VS together without CoVs is natural against Burn, but unless the number of burn decks, Gaddock Teegs and Leylines notable increases, I always have a tough time to justify these CoVs in my board even if I like the application for storm chains and Safety net character against random stuff like Gaddock Teeg/Ruric Thar. I see the card more relevant for ANT to deal with graveyard hate. If we look at CoV for mainly handling creatures (Ruric aside) it could be a Disfigure instead ;)

About the Discard spell, I rarely use it. Mainly in longer games against counter-heavy decks, when I have a second tutor and no other discard spells in hand. We might have a slot here. What would go in that slot?

My SB Busines spell is IT, and I'm 100% with Bryant here. It's a must and won me many games.

Both topics above are actually tied together. If you run the SB discard you have virtual 10 discard spells at hand IF you need them (aka longer matches against control) compared to the 7 mainboard discard spells Bryant runs. For the lack of these 3 Virtual discard spells on demand and 1 MB Tutor for your 6-7 mana Belcher mode, you gain 3 more outs to access Ad Nauseam for 9 mana or an extra EtW-stormcount for a total of 8 mana. It's a matter of preference and deck ideology.

My main concernment is about Bayou x Tropical. Bryant said he is 100% sure about that change, Why's that, and why we're considering moving it to the sideboard, again?

The Main advantage of Bayou, especially in combination with Xantid Swarm and Volcanic Island is that you can play your turn 1 Xantid and still have BR initial mana for your turn 2 protected combo to cast your RoFs, DRS, ITs and Wishes. If you have to cast your Xantid off Tropical, this wouldn't be possible without a Petal in addition to your 2 lands. Take notice that Bayou + Volcanic produces all 4 colors in the deck and still enables to chain cantrips (Brainstorm/Ponder/Probe) into protection (Xantid/Duress/Therapy). The "only" but significant downside is that the Bayou is a bad land to have in your opener in combination with cantrips. Atm I have not made up my mind on which I prefer.

Another land-issue, what about the basics? I've tested them online and got in some weird situatins where I could've won if I had another land (rainbow or any dual-land). I really like Gemstone (I know they suck) and I really need someone to evaluate the ups and downs of adding more fetches/basics instead of the full set of Gemstones.

This isn't a new topic. I refuse to run the Basics for just this problem of color-restricting me for early kills and that they disrupt double Red (Wish->EtW) playlines as well as double black's (Duress->Ritual). Maybe if you rely less on the SB EtW due to prefering to burn your Wishes (Pun intended) for infernal instead and aim for longer games, you can get away with Basics

[vercadium]

I don't have time at the moment to really elaborate on all of my choices, but thought it might still be helpful to post my current list up. I haven't missed the Xantid Swarm and I feel like the 3 Abrupt Decay are necessary due to the quantity of Miracles in Europe. If I was finding room for Xantid Swarm, I would also be swapping Tropical Island for Bayou.

//Card Draw and Selection (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

//Tutors (7)
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor

//Targets (2)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens

//Disruption (7)
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress

//Ritual Mana (8)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame

//Artifact Mana (11)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox

//Land (13)
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn

//Sideboard (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Void Snare
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Infernal Tutor

[PopyMartins]

Boarding the VS together without CoVs is natural against Burn, but unless the number of burn decks, Gaddock Teegs and Leylines notable increases, I always have a tough time to justify these CoVs in my board even if I like the application for storm chains and Safety net character against random stuff like Gaddock Teeg/Ruric Thar. I see the card more relevant for ANT to deal with graveyard hate. If we look at CoV for mainly handling creatures (Ruric aside) it could be a Disfigure instead ;)

Yeah, a lot of decks in my meta run Chalice/Trinisphere (I know CoV sucks against Chalice, but most of times people Chalice for 0), Thalias and some random hate, like Thorn of Amethyst or Null Rod. That's why I still run Chain.

Both topics above are actually tied together. If you run the SB discard you have virtual 10 discard spells at hand IF you need them (aka longer matches against control) compared to the 7 mainboard discard spells Bryant runs. For the lack of these 3 Virtual discard spells on demand and 1 MB Tutor for your 6-7 mana Belcher mode, you gain 3 more outs to access Ad Nauseam for 9 mana or an extra EtW-stormcount for a total of 8 mana. It's a matter of preference and deck ideology.

Yah, but vs Miracles or against deck that I really want discards I can side out 1x Duress or Therapy to get that 3 virtual discard spells on demand. Do you think this strategy works?

The Main advantage of Bayou, especially in combination with Xantid Swarm and Volcanic Island is that you can play your turn 1 Xantid and still have BR initial mana for your turn 2 protected combo to cast your RoFs, DRS, ITs and Wishes. If you have to cast your Xantid off Tropical, this wouldn't be possible without a Petal in addition to your 2 lands. Take notice that Bayou + Volcanic produces all 4 colors in the deck and still enables to chain cantrips (Brainstorm/Ponder/Probe) into protection (Xantid/Duress/Therapy). The "only" but significant downside is that the Bayou is a bad land to have in your opener in combination with cantrips. Atm I have not made up my mind on which I prefer.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, color screwing. But since you'll only board Bayou in when you need a green source (and probably will take of a Mox for that slot) you wont be color screwed alot.
And what about the last land in the Sideboard? Why's that and why is it that usefull? I never played with 12 lands, that's why I ask (I started playin in the current configuration, exactly the same list as this thread's first post).

This isn't a new topic. I refuse to run the Basics for just this problem of color-restricting me for early kills and that they disrupt double Red (Wish->EtW) playlines as well as double black's (Duress->Ritual). Maybe if you rely less on the SB EtW due to prefering to burn your Wishes (Pun intended) for infernal instead and aim for longer games, you can get away with Basics

I like the utopia of not getting blown up by wasteland, but basics sucks when they're in your starter hand. I really need someone to convince me about that, haha.

[ShiftyKapree]

Say you guys have two fetches and a duress in hand, do you open up with the sea or play it safe with getting the swamp if you can? I just picked the deck up, I've played other storm variants throughout my vast years of playing mostly vintage but i know TES is a different breed, I really wish Mind's Desire would come off the list but they need to ban hightide and crap like that in order for it to not get broken.

[Lemnear]

Yeah, a lot of decks in my meta run Chalice/Trinisphere (I know CoV sucks against Chalice, but most of times people Chalice for 0), Thalias and some random hate, like Thorn of Amethyst or Null Rod. That's why I still run Chain.

the deck can get around Chalice @ 0. Chalice @ 1 is really a problem and Chain can't solve that.

Yah, but vs Miracles or against deck that I really want discards I can side out 1x Duress or Therapy to get that 3 virtual discard spells on demand. Do you think this strategy works?

the SB discard and the SB Infernal are simply switched out if you compare Bryant's and my take. Depends on what you prefer game 1. For G2 & G3 you can switch on demand. It's really not a big deal

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, color screwing. But since you'll only board Bayou in when you need a green source (and probably will take of a Mox for that slot) you wont be color screwed alot.
And what about the last land in the Sideboard? Why's that and why is it that usefull? I never played with 12 lands, that's why I ask (I started playin in the current configuration, exactly the same list as this thread's first post).

the SB land is mainly for Stifle/Wasteland matchups and to support Decay/Xantid

I like the utopia of not getting blown up by wasteland, but basics sucks when they're in your starter hand. I really need someone to convince me about that, haha.

Say you guys have two fetches and a duress in hand, do you open up with the sea or play it safe with getting the swamp if you can? I just picked the deck up, I've played other storm variants throughout my vast years of playing mostly vintage but i know TES is a different breed, I really wish Mind's Desire would come off the list but they need to ban hightide and crap like that in order for it to not get broken.

This depends a lot in your hand. If you can combo turn 2 and don't need to cantrip turn 1, fetching for U.Sea to fire off the Duress is fine.

[Lemnear]

They could give us back mind's desire >>

That can happen, right?

Though, this Khan's block is designed a lot like Alara, and we got Ad Nauseam in Alara... I'm willing to hope we get something cool

The Delve mechanic makes my head spin of possibilities here. 7BBB Bargain, 5BB Y.Will, 1B Dark Ritual, 2B Hymn to Tourach, 4B Demonic ... All can happen.

But tbh after the impact of TC & DTT i can see WotC chopping possible other Delve bombs they have on their desk for the remaining block

[Dice_Box]

The Delve mechanic makes my head spin of possibilities here. 7BBB Bargain, 5BB Y.Will, 1B Dark Ritual, 2B Hymn to Tourach, 4B Demonic ... All can happen.

But tbh after the impact of TC & DTT i can see WotC chopping possible other Delve bombs they have on their desk for the remaining block

That will be an interesting question to put to Maro after the set is complete. "What did you cut in light of TC's stronger than expected showing in older formats?"

[Lemnear]

That will be an interesting question to put to Maro after the set is complete. "What did you cut in light of TC's stronger than expected showing in older formats?"

It's not interresting, it's pointless. You can't expect an honest answer after the Return to Ravnica Block mechanic and Guild-Leader hilarity

[MoorishIdol]

Hey Ya'll,

I'm loving this thread and am quite grateful for the time you put into it. I'm learning storm, maybe 40 games under my belt, but last night I was real tired and made some serious faux pas. I played a couple rituals and what not with no resistance only to realize I miscounted. It's quite embarrassing but I would feel better if any of you share your idiotic plays. Maybe I can learn something from your mistakes :P

Thanks!