Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

[Barook]

2nd Courser is a must. Not only is it a replacement if the first one bites the dust, you need the consistency to set up Courser + Library on a regular basis. And double Courser is just downright ridiculous. 3rd Baloth is debatable.

I'm busy this week, but I'm going to do some theorycrafting next week, trying to go deeper into the white splash with more KotRs while moving the Chokes to the SB (Choke is powerful in the right match-up/moment, but a tad bit too situational for my taste to run a full playset in the MD). I need to figure out the manabase and the right utility cards first, though.

[Ricflairwoo]

You should have pointed out that you only lost one match in 14 rounds at the GP week-end. To sum it up for readers :
Trial for byes : 4-1
Main event 0-0-3 (against very slow players with two rounds in which you were one turn short of winning)
3-0 at a win a box
3-0 at another win a box

Yeah overall the deck performed well. I had my opponents in the spikeweaver/kalonian lock (if you are not familiar with how this works you attack with kalonian double the counters..fog if they have enough power to kill hydra, rinse and repeat as needed) when we went to time in r1-2. R3 I played against a guy who was at his 1st GP and did not know what the cards did. Had to call a judge 5-6 times to have them explain the interactions of cards(sylvan/courser), can I counter baloth(+1 lili), what does trinisphere do to force of will, green sun for 0 getting dryad arbor..etc etc. I did concede to my opponents in r2-3 because the draw was just a loss. I think it's important to explain this to new gp players as alot of the time they don't understand it. Asking them for the concession, and then conceding to them if they do not give it to you...will hopefully make them pay it forward at some point.

Here's a breakdown in what I faced in the trial

-r1 U/W helm Miracles. G1 chalice on 1 g1, into choke GG, G2 lose to early entreat G3 lock with trini and x2 spoils
-r2 Omnitell G1 i had an early chalice into trini, my opponent was very sad to find out how omni and trini work. g2 lose to dream halls g3 chalice on 1/trini take the game
-r3 Punishing Maverick This was the most memorable match of the whole gp. g3 my opponent had maze of ith and thrun against the spikeweaver/hydra combo. I ended up killing him in turns attacking with a 1024/1024 hydra after finally drawing wasteland.
r4 Storm he pushed an empty through chalice on 0 g1. I ended up getting lucky and ripping spoils to get the win. g2 i had an early trini chalice that locked it up.
r5 Maverick lost pretty badly to not drawing anything but lands. i mulled a hand i should have kept that had spoils and little action. was heartbreaking to not get the byes but the deck felt great overall.

win a box I played against blue decks and the games were not very exciting. One thing I can say is that I think it's 100% correct to board out the 3 ancient tombs against u/r delver burn etc. Also with the knight package you want to have 3 utlity lands in the sideboard to make him even more powerful. I tried tabernacle for a bit but it not tapping for mana was a problem. Depending on your meta you could go up to 2 karkas 1 tower I think.


Lejay as for the 2nd courser/baloth I think that the courser/sylvan engine is too powerful/important to not be playing 2 courser. draw 2 gain a life with sylvan has won me more games than I can count. I like the idea of ravenous trap in a heavy storm meta(just lost to it in r1), however if you have alot of u/r delver around the faeries are nice blockers for delver.

[Ricflairwoo]

2nd Courser is a must. Not only is it a replacement if the first one bites the dust, you need the consistency to set up Courser + Library on a regular basis. And double Courser is just downright ridiculous. 3rd Baloth is debatable.

I'm busy this week, but I'm going to do some theorycrafting next week, trying to go deeper into the white splash with more KotRs while moving the Chokes to the SB (Choke is powerful in the right match-up/moment, but a tad bit too situational for my taste to run a full playset in the MD). I need to figure out the manabase and the right utility cards first, though.

I've tried x4 knight, x2 knight. I didn't much like either. but if you are going to do it you should play a karakas in the main. some other failures of mine were x4 goyf, x1 rhino..I wanted more early gsz targets but you need your creatures to do more than just be a */*+1 blocker.

A lot of people underestimate courser. he just hangs out and draws an extra card a turn until they die.

[ceustice]

I like this deck but I think I kind lean toward a more Turbo Natural order Build or I've been toying with something that is closer to a Mono Green Devotion. For reference Caleb Durward wrote a article about the Turbo No list about a year ago. Here:
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...ogue-squadron/

Turbo NO

[/deck]
15 Forest
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Terastodon
2 Primeval Titan
2 Priest of Titania
4 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
4 Wood Elves
1 Regal Force
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Natural Order
3 Plow Under
4 Green Sun's Zenith[/deck]

[Ricflairwoo]

just went 3-1 with the list again. My only loss was to the Mogg Catcher deck, and that's just a bad match up on so many levels. Played against 12 Post, Miracles, U/R Delver, and Mogg Catcher. Knight was unreal against 12 post, it has fit perfectly in the package of utility creatures. If you haven't tried lejay's 75 card for card you're missing out.

[Barook]

I've tried x4 knight, x2 knight. I didn't much like either.

Well, I plan to test 3x KotR, maybe that's the golden number.

What exactly didn't you like about multiple Knights? And was that before or after the inclusion of Mox Diamond?

[Memories of the Time]

I'm running kotr since the beginning, but a thing i don't like is the contrast between kotr, titania, ooze,drs and rip, that's a great card right Noè. And i really Don't like having Only containment priest as only hate card against sneak&show, that's very popular in italy.
Btw I'll run My list with rhino at Nebraska War, around 200 players next weekend. Not Sure about 2 mox Diamond and Only 22 lands

[Lejay]

I'm running kotr since the beginning, but a thing i don't like is the contrast between kotr, titania, ooze,drs and rip, that's a great card right Noè. And i really Don't like having Only containment priest as only hate card against sneak&show, that's very popular in italy.
Btw I'll run My list with rhino at Nebraska War, around 200 players next weekend. Not Sure about 2 mox Diamond and Only 22 lands

I don't run rip so rip and ooze have no disynergies with the rest of the deck. The other one-ofs didn't screw each other in all my testing.
My list has 24 lands, were you talking about your list ?

4 Sylvan Library
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Trinisphere
3 Obstinate Baloth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Forest
2 Bayou
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Swamp
2 Rolling Spoil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Choke
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Wasteland
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Savannah
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mox Diamond
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills

1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Karakas
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Spike Weaver
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Massacre
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Trinisphere
1 Wasteland

I don't think you'll like it in a meta full of sneak show, but my way to fit in the 3rd baloth was to put 4th trinisphere in sideboard and cut the spider for it.
No spider means one less card versus delver decks but 1 more baloths compensates and imo improves the main deck. However I am not completely sure about the change so feel free to play stingerfling spider in the next SCG open even if it's just for the coverage hype. :P
I still want 4th trinisphere for combo and slow blue based control decks but against sfm decks I generally don't keep four of them now, so I think it's ok to put 4th in the sb.
Still on ravenous trap but that's a meta thing, feel free to play faeries if you expect reanimator.
I still feel SB wasteland slot needs to be a land so dawnstrider still isn't back.
8th fetch is a good fixer that synergizes with some creatures in the main and which didn't present any drawback so far in games, and I think mox diamonds helped on that.

I played this list in two dailies today and went 3-0-split and 4-0.

[Ricflairwoo]

Well, I plan to test 3x KotR, maybe that's the golden number.

What exactly didn't you like about multiple Knights? And was that before or after the inclusion of Mox Diamond?

it was before mox diamond. I just don't think you want that effect in multiples. if you're using her as the finisher you are much more susceptible to graveyard hate. I'd run karakas in the main if you are going that hard on knight.

[apple713]

this deck is starting to look more like what I'm working on... starting to add mox diamonds and KOTRs.

Creatures 13
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Vampire Hexmage
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Progenitus
1 Terastodon
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

Spells - 20
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Crop Rotation
2 Sylvan Library
2 Mox Diamond

Lands - 27
2 Dryad Arbor

4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Dark Depths
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard

SB: 1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm

[Barook]

it was before mox diamond. I just don't think you want that effect in multiples. if you're using her as the finisher you are much more susceptible to graveyard hate. I'd run karakas in the main if you are going that hard on knight.

GY hate is my main concern. Of course i would include 1 Karakas, maybe even 1-2 Loam. But I'm going to test Lejay's current iteration before that.

[frogger42]

Hiya. I've been wanting to find a Green version of Stax for a little bit. I see a lot of playtesting has gone into online weeklies and stuff. Has anyone tested this in their brick-and-mortar weekies? I tend to lend more viability to that kind of testing because, after a few weeks, people see how you come at them, and then they start to learn how to play against you (which is a better test of a deck's power). A bit extreme, but I've had people come at me with MD Energy Flux, haha. Just curious.

[Memories of the Time]

Lejay:I'm talking about Ricflairwoo list that's very similar to mine maindeck. 24 lands + 2 Mox seems too much for me, but my experience from loam deck suggests that having at least 23 Lands is the basic number for Mox Diamond. Btw with diamond I find even more op rhino.
For the sideboard I play one very different, as said. BTW it's probably because different meta game, but I can't find a good card against s&t in these colors... This is the only tier deck that scares me (mud isn't so played here, stompy too)

[MD.Ghost]

but I can't find a good card against s&t in these colors... This is the only tier deck that scares me (mud isn't so played here, stompy too)

Sneak&Show and Reanimator (Graveyard-Hate)

Lejay already used Stingerfling Spider against S&S which prevents Show&Tell into Fatty - you can also try Fleshbag Marauder (kills also TNN). The Problem is, you will either face Sneak Attack or Show&Tell, you can't attack both with one Green(/Black) Creature. Containment Priest is also an Option, but it you can't use it as a Show&Tell card and disable GSZ.

My current GBw Testbuild has Maindeck 2 Knights, 1 Karakas and 2 Toxic Deluge (hey it can work ) and +1 more Karakas, +1 Stingerfling and +2 Krosan Grip as a Sideboard Choice, so Sneak & Show isn't the worst matchup.

Graveyard-Hate: see above + 1 Deathrite and 1 Ooze Maindeck; Sideboard: +1 Karakas, +1 Spider (both against Reanimate), +1 Bojuka Bog (Knights..), +2 Faerie Macabre. Note that Chalice itself is also much better against Reanimator than against Sneak&Show.

[Memories of the Time]

The problem of non priest options is that they don't hit sneak attack. Priest is by far the only cheap and reasonable option here, unless you want to convince me that have karakas+grip a is reliable and realistic one. I also doesn't like having too many land sideboard card with only 1 kotr, so I ask you if it works. Rip still seems a very good sb card here, but probably too many problems... Dunno.
Uba mask could be a good option too, especially because it hits miracle too (veeeery played here) and is fycking awesome with library.

[Ricflairwoo]

Lejay:I'm talking about Ricflairwoo list that's very similar to mine maindeck. 24 lands + 2 Mox seems too much for me, but my experience from loam deck suggests that having at least 23 Lands is the basic number for Mox Diamond. Btw with diamond I find even more op rhino.
For the sideboard I play one very different, as said. BTW it's probably because different meta game, but I can't find a good card against s&t in these colors... This is the only tier deck that scares me (mud isn't so played here, stompy too)

I'm playing Lejay's list, only things haven't switched to in his current list are the spider/Baloth/trap changes. I tried a 1/1 spilt of faerie macabre/trap but for me I like the flexibility of the faeries. I've tried rhno in all numbers, but I don't think it's high enough impact for the azban cost.

Went 1-2 drop, 3-1 yesterday losing to mono red sneak attack, and grixis dack in the 1st. And then u/w/r (jacemsst) who likes to brag that he's never lost to the deck.

[P-E]

I tested the deck a bit , really strong and nice to play ^^ Thx Lejay
i have one question , my meta is not all blue but rather DnT/Aggro, is it decent to put choke in side and put Deluge/ Massacre/ Sage MD ?

[Lejay]

And then u/w/r (jacemsst) who likes to brag that he's never lost to the deck.

He lost to it 2-0 yesterday.

I tested the deck a bit , really strong and nice to play ^^ Thx Lejay
i have one question , my meta is not all blue but rather DnT/Aggro, is it decent to put choke in side and put Deluge/ Massacre/ Sage MD ?

I guess it is and the deck would still be good. But I would simply play a combo deck in this metagame (unless people are hating too much on all of them).

[Barook]

S&T is too much of a non-factor to bend the deck over for it, at least on MODO.

I've watched several matches of Lejay doing well, and while being lucky about getting overall blue match-ups, he has done his homework to introduce one of the few existing brews to the current metagame. I'm defintely impressed, so keep up the good work, we're on something here, guys.

[FoolofaTook]

yeah i have been testing scroll rack in another deck very similar to this but with dark depths and natural order. I haven't found scroll rack to really be good because it doesn't net you any cards. its similar to mirri's guile vs sylvan library. although library doesn't net you any cards you have the option to. scroll rack and mirri's are fixed and scroll rack particularly blows on an empty hand.

The way you play Scroll Rack is with cards like Land Tax and Squadron Hawks and Stoneforge Mystic. Cards that get you extra cards in hand when you play them and allow you to turn the two cards you maybe have in hand when you play them into a deep dig into the library with a reshuffle effect afterwards.

Stoneforge Mystic is just one extra card but it's a free card and when you have your equipment plus 2 it's worth Scrolling to look at the top 3 of your library. A lot of the time you'll even want to leave the equipment there up top waiting for the next draw because you're not going to play it that turn anyway and you don't want it sitting there in your hand waiting for discard or Vendilion Clique or something like that to take it out of your hand.

Really Scroll Rack is too slow for Legacy but if you are going to use it you need ways to get extra cards in hand to really exploit it.