I'm going to try the Dig/wishless list for the first time properly tonight. Threw my sideboard together last night and it's pretty random but can't change it now.
List is standard (with 1 Trop main over the 10th fetchland) with SB:
3 Counterbalance,
2 Flusterstorm,
1 Tropical Island,
3 Abrupt Decay,
1 Chain of Vapor,
2 Massacre,
1 Dread of Night,
1 Shelldock Isle,
1 Emrakul
I wanted to try out the Shelldock board plan for the first time. Wanted the Dread of Night to be a Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild or something but couldn't find either. Will update when I get home!
I'm not very high on Shelldock Isle->Emrakul. The issue is that while decks used on only have Wasteland and Needle, they now also have Terminus.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I've been playing emidln's UB list from Storm Boards lately as a budget standby for ANT and it's been excellent. The list is a surprising mix of resilience and speed, and having access to FoW and Dig is quite nice.
I've been testing this at my LGS against ANT, and while I admit I need more practice, I had a fair bit of trouble winning fast enough. We mostly played without boarding (which is another reason I probably had trouble, our G2 improves more than theirs), but when I boarded the plan was +4 FoW -2 LED -1 LP -1 ToA. Is this appropriate?
Edit: I'm very interested in the Counterbalance tech being discussed, particularly because I love SDT to death and tend to keep any hand that can play it. My meta so far has some Delver, ANT, MUD, Lands, and a bunch of glass cannon combos, so I feel that CB would do some serious damage. Has anyone tested this? I really appreciate Vintage Doomsday, as it's pretty much a control storm deck, and I would main this deck in a heartbeat if it could adopt that identity and succeed.
Edit 2: BTW, I've gotten pretty familiar with standard piles and variations, but what is the value of Chromatic Sphere? I'm not questioning it's value, I just don't know what it is.
Last edited by bjholmes3; 09-08-2015 at 02:02 PM.
Sphere is a cantrip that cannot be responded to. As it's ability is a mana ability and has card draw attached it means when you complete your lab man pile and activate sphere; they cannot path/bolt/decay your maniac in response. :)Originally Posted by bjholmes3
The Doomsday Codex
We're catching bullets in our teeth,
Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
And if they take a couple out,
We try to work things out.....
Meow.
Oh, that's actually brilliant. I was wondering why it was recommended to use the Lab plan against Miracles, now I get it
Once you get more experience and move beyond the standard piles you'll recognize more combinations of winning cards / situations. You lose some velocity without Wish. Don't be afraid of early pass the turn piles vs decks without permission.
Yeah, even just goldfishing a couple hours afterwards with Netflix helped immensely
I am writing a report on my (somewhat disappointing) performances at Eternal Weekend and at the SCG Premier IQ in Milwaukee.
In the meantime, here are two videos of my matches at the last two weekly events at my LGS.
https://youtu.be/VaLY_CpSwl0?t=2376
https://youtu.be/i7QZ6JEmcKA?t=4929
Yes, I am paired against dredge both games. Also, I didn't need to Time Spiral in the first match, I can win with Burning Wish into Doomsday, and I lost some percentage points by playing Gitaxian Probe before fetching (I realized afterwards that I didn't have the mana to activate top twice). I think this build of Doomsday is very fast and is also resilient to much of the commonly played sideboard cards.
Here's the deck:
Mainboard
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Silence
4x Burning Wish
3x Doomsday
1x Ideas Unbound
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
2x Mox Opal
4x Polluted Delta
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tundra
1x Badlands
1x Island
1x Swamp
2x Seat of the Synod
*I've been switching between silence and orim's chant
Sideboard
4x Monastery Mentor
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Pyroblast
1x Massacre
1x Void Snare
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Doomsday
1x Time Spiral
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
*I've been switching between pyroblast, swan song, and spell pierce
I have had very little trouble enabling Metalcraft and Mox Opal has led to very fast wins, higher velocity setup, and a much more easily cast Empty the Warrens.
Monastery Mentor has won me at least 4 out of 5 games it resolves (which is easy since it ignores spell pierce, flusterstorm, pyroblast, Chalice of the Void, Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, etc). Looping two Sensei's Divining Tops with Lion's Eye Diamond mana is super fun. Most times I win the turn after resolving a Monastery Mentor (I have found 2 tokens is usually sufficient). Even if Monastery Mentor is removed, 2 or 3 tokens can easily race creature decks.
This list looks really interesting. Which matchups do you board mentor in and what do you remove for it? I've tried it as a sideboard card and had trouble deciding on what to cut when they come in.
In my opinion they come in to help get around sideboard cards; it's much easier to resolve a Monastery Mentor than a Doomsday against a hand full of Flusterstorms, Pyroblasts (for Ideas Unbound) or a board of Thalia, Counterbalance, Chalice, or Meddling Mage. The full playset of Lotus Petals and the two Mox Opals enable turn 2 (even turn 1!) Monastery Mentor with relative consistency. The idea is, rather than fight against the more narrowly focused interaction against your primary, mainboard plan, you have a powerful plan ignoring most interaction. This strategy is especially effective since most decks will board out removal.
I would also bring them in against discard decks and decks with Extirpate effects (winning with Doomsday is very difficult without Lion's Eye Diamonds, Burning Wishes, or Doomsday).
I think the better question is, which decks don't you board into this plan with, and also, which cards do you replace with Monastery Mentor, and this is a new concept; I'm still figuring out which matchups to bring them in and what to replace.
Against faster decks where Empty the Warrens is a poor plan:
-3 Burning Wish
-1 Swamp
-1 Ponder
-2 Protection
+4 Monastery Mentor
+1 Cabal Therapy
+2 Counters
Against tempo/stoneblade:
-3 Doomsday/Burning Wish
-2 Thoughtseize/Silence
+4 Monastery Mentor
+1 Cabal Therapy
Against Death and Taxes, Chalice of the Void decks, and Burn (Burning Wish retains utility after lock pieces have come into play):
-3 Doomsday
-2 Cabal Therapy/Silence (Death and Taxes - suggestion by emidln)
-1 Dark Ritual
+4 Monastery Mentor
+2 Chain of Vapor
*I am 3-0 against Death and Taxes with this build! (edit: replace Silence against Death and Taxes)
For sure, I don't sideboard Mentors in against:
-Elves
-Dredge
-Merfolk
A quick note: Chain of Vapor is very effective at triggering prowess by bouncing your own artifacts!
Last edited by DireNTropy; 09-21-2015 at 07:28 PM.
I'd probably cut Silence before Cabal Therapy against Death and Taxes. I realize that Silence looks like a Time Walk, but it usually trades for a Wasteland or a Petal and that's not exactly excellent unless you're killing next turn. Cabal Therapy is also an overrun-type effect with mentor, in addition to being able to hit Thalia (hint: almost always name thalia). I'd likely to go as far as siding in the extra therapy.
I'd test cutting Wish instead of Doomsday too. I don't think you really want to ETW against them do you? -4 Burning Wish would let you bring in Massacre as a card you can draw plus a Tendrils. This would at least be worth testing, as it increases your threat density (I don't buy that Wish is a credible threat here).
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I agree on bringing in Cabal Therapy and replacing Silence against Death and Taxes; I was thinking more about the Burn and Chalice matchups (I will trade lands against Chalice of the Void decks more readily than against Death and Taxes).
I also agree that in the traditional Doomsday builds (17 land, 1 Petal), Burning Wish for Empty the Warrens is both too inconsistent and not powerful enough (tough to get more than 8 or 10 goblins) against Death and Taxes.
However, Empty the Warrens in this build (15 land, 4 Petal, 2 Mox) is closer to The Epic Storm, which has a great matchup against Death and Taxes largely because of being able to cast a reasonably large turn 1 or turn 2 Empty the Warrens. Also, having Burning Wish with a Monastery Mentor on board tends to trigger Prowess at least twice, if not three times (with Cabal Therapy or Void Snare), and has more utility than Doomsday after a Thalia/Chalice of the Void resolves. I did however, beat a Chalice of the Void + Blood Moon with Doomsday on turn three in the last tournament, although a lot more effort was required.
I might agree to switching Burning Wish for Doomsday in builds running Laboratory Maniac since this makes Doomsday into a much more viable win condition after a lock piece is on board. Without Burning Wish or Laboratory Maniac, winning with Doomsday requires racing against a 2 mana lock-piece (I would expect some number of Ethersworn Canonist), quite a gamble, drawing the one-of Massacre or Void Snare rather than being able to wish for them (siding out Burning Wishes really only frees up 1-2 slots if these are brought in), or building up a very large amount of mana on the combo turn against a resource-denial strategy.
Finally, do you think leaving in one Burning Wish is important enough to increase storm when casting Doomsday (and isn't Tendrils of Agony one of the worst cards to draw in this matchup)?
So since Dig was banned and people had moved to list with 3-4 of them is it back to the old good Wish version with then?
"Everything is better topless"
Is this deck getting any attention before the GP?
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
3 Doomsday
1 Lotus Petal
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Rain Of Filth
1 Lab Maniac
1 Chromatic Sphere
Sideboard:
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Doomsday
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Massacre
1 Void Snare
1 Empty The Warrens
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Bayou
1 Thoughtseize
I went 5-4 at Eternal Extravaganza
Losing to
Miricales (3 Counterbalances out at the same time)
TES (He won the Dice roll and went off turn one Game 1 & 3)
Reanimator (A hard match up)
Death And Taxes (stupid Misplay)
I am thinking of cutting the Thoughtseize for a Karakas in the board to help with Reanimator as well as Show N Tell and DnT
I will be at SeaTac with this list
How well do you think the deck is positioned against the field right now? What does it struggle with? Are you worried about Sneak Attack or any other fast combo strategies?
Has anyone tried to make this a more combo control style of deck? Sort of like how it is played in Vintage?
I was thinking of trying out the following list:
Interaction (14)
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Duress
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Force of Will
Cantrips (15)
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
3x Gitaxian Probe
Combo (9)
4x Doomsday
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Chromatic Sphere
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
Mana (22)
4x Dark Ritual
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard (15)
2x Carpet of Flowers
4x Dark Confidant
2x Disfigure
2x Duress
1x Echoing Truth
2x Flusterstorm
2x Grafdigger's Cage
If you're trying something like this, Top is still better than Preordain. I get you want to up the blue count for force, but Top is just infinitely better. Also you likely still want at a lotus petal in the main.
Your right, tops are a must have. They are just too good in the deck. But in order to have enough blue cards for force, I'll take out discard and add more counters. But with counters, I can't really win with LED so I think the Thought Scour/Predict + Unearth plan may be better. However, that opens you up to GY hate and removal. I think a misdirection for Decay is necessary. I think Decays and counters can handle GY hate.
How about this list?
Interaction (15)
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Force of Will
1x Misdirection
3x Flusterstorm
3x Spell Pierce
Cantrips/Tutors (15)
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
4x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Gitaxian Probe
Combo (8)
4x Doomsday
1x Thought Scour
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Unearth
Mana (22)
1x Cabal Ritual
4x Dark Ritual
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Verdant Catacombs
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
1x Island
1x Swamp
Sideboard (15)
3x Carpet of Flowers
4x Dark Confidant
3x Disfigure
1x Flusterstorm
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Sylvan Library
There are only 6 cards that are useless outside of the combo. I'm not sure of Dark Confidant in the side vs. BUG/Jund/Miracles since I have Forces, Misdirection and my combo requires life.
Looks like it'll play similarly to the Menendian version, but with decays instead of discard. If that's the kind of deck you want to play, then it should be fine. Having tried the Menendian version, I'd always rather play DDFT.
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