[Deck] Goblins

[1337erhosen]

The matchup analysis looks great, but I'd just make additions to the "relevant sideboard cards" sections. The major missing sideboard cards I see are Surgical Extraction, Grafdigger's Cage, Containment Priest, and Warping Wail.

[iatee]

Hmm, even or favorable vs every deck but 3 combo decks. You would think Goblins would have a little more success these days were that the case.

[ScatmanX]

Hmm, even or favorable vs every deck but 3 combo decks. You would think Goblins would have a little more success these days were that the case.

Even doesn't mean good. 50% chance is bad. Have you ever took a 50% deck against the field to a tournament? It ends 3-3.

Most importantly, if there is only 1 or 2 experienced goblin players in a room with 200+ people, even if the are favourable against most common decks, it is quite unlikely that lots of good results are achieved.

If your talking about smaller tournaments, then yes, goblins is having a very good run lately.

[iatee]

Tier 1 decks have even match-ups vs Tier 1 decks.

Anyway this is far from the first deck analysis on the internet that exaggerates the deck's win %s - it's a time honored tradition and can be found on the first page of almost every deck thread on the site.

[GoboLord]

Tier 1 decks have even match-ups vs Tier 1 decks.

Anyway this is far from the first deck analysis on the internet that exaggerates the deck's win %s - it's a time honored tradition and can be found on the first page of almost every deck thread on the site.

Thanks for your input.

[GoboLord]

My comparisons:

Elves
I'd put Grafdigger's cage in front of Pithing Needle in the list, simply to keep them in order of relevance. I actually think it's probably a little better than Perish, and a lot worse than Pyrokinesis, so it fits right in there. You just get some time to breath. No broken tutors, comes down early.

U/G infect.
I run the classic list, and I feel this match-up is pretty favorable. I'm curious to know what we differ on that makes the match-up feel so different.

All of their creatures die to all of our removal. Just end of their turn kill their dudes. Unless they have the gold standard for getting in for lethal, they should be playing out like a delver deck with 1/1's, holding pump spells for removal. Their mana is also pretty fragile, Waste and Port do great work. Pyrokinesis and mana denial rock this match-up. Just respect the deck, count numbers and go with what's likely. Stop playing with "The Fear"

D&T
I think it's worth mentioning how much of a grind this match-up is, meaning experience will go very, very far in this match-up. Worth practicing.

Lands
I've always found this match-up to be noticeably negative, not even. I guess I'll playtest it more and come back here with more information.

Sneak & Show
"..Goblin Matron in your hand." not "on your hand."
I think it's worth noting, this is a match-up where the diminishing returns on Stingscourger are non-existent. More is just better. Also Containment Priest is pretty good here.

Reanimator
I've won this match-up far more than I've lost it. Since their win con does take multiple turns you have the time to set up. The nightmare scenario is pretty rare (Iona, Shield of Emeria on turn 1, while you don't have Stingscourger & Aether Vial). They are hit harder than most decks by mana denial. Perhaps this has something to do with my sideboard though. I generally run Containment Priest as a 2 of.

Thank you for your comment - that was exactly the Kind of response I was hoping to receive.
Some comments:

Regarding Elves I agree with you on Cage vs. Needle. I was just not considering listing cards in order of importance. I will need to evaluate if that makes sense to do for all MUs.

Infect: I dont know what makes us perceive this MU so differently but I would love to change that. It could be that my lists are a little light on spotremoval lately. When playing winstigators I am usually running between 3 to 4 removal spells in my 75 (including Stingscourger) + 3-4 Sharpshooter (which I dont count as spotremoval).
What is your take?

D&T
True. Will add that. Note about grindiness.

Lands
Having played this MU with both lists I can only say that the difference in how the MU works is huge. (Same with Eldrazis, only in favor of the traditional list).

Sneak Show and Reanimator
Totally forgot that containment priest even existed. Thanks for the reminder. I need to test Reanimator a little more then, but in my experience so far is that I could only ever steal games when my opponent was doing something wrong.

What about the other MUs? Do we agree there more or less?

[MattPruner]

Infect: I dont know what makes us perceive this MU so differently but I would love to change that. It could be that my lists are a little light on spotremoval lately. When playing winstigators I am usually running between 3 to 4 removal spells in my 75 (including Stingscourger) + 3-4 Sharpshooter (which I dont count as spotremoval).
What is your take?

i feel quite favored on a classic list. i do have a bit more removal (3 warping wail, 1 Kolaghan's command, 1 gempalm, 2 tarfire, 1 stingscourger, 1 warren weirding, and 1 sharpshooter, with another k command, stingscourger, and some pyrokinesis in the board. ok, its a lot more removal.)
It seems like Lots of my games came down to being able to hold off inkmoth nexus with rishadan port. I take a super controlling approach to the matchup, and often only have 1 or 2 things on board the entire game. just holding up removal and keeping them off mana (they often seem to be quite land lite) until they are dead.

[GoblinTurkey]

It's done. Would be happy to get some feedback on where you agree/disagree with my views on the respective MUs. Or what MUs you want me to write about next.

IV. Matchups & strategy (last update: 28/03/2016)

Miracles – favorable
How the matchups works: You have everything that they don’t want to see: a fast clock, creatures that they can’t counter, cardadvantage. There are two ways they can beat you: (1) a well-timed Entreat the Angels and (2) Monastery Mentor getting out of reach before you can remove it. The longer the games the more favored they are – so try to make it quick. Your plan is to establish a boardposition that can deal a minimum of 4 damage a turn, while holding Matron or Ringleader in your hand. You will pressure your opponent to find a Terminus during your attack step and then refill your resources with Ringleader on the second mainphase of the same turn. Matron should usually find Ringleader. Make sure to not let it get countered. After G1 you want to keep as many creatures in our deck as possible. Ideally you keep one or two removal spells after G1.
Which version to pick: Both versions are equally well-equipped to beat Miracles. If you are playing the CLASSIC build, make sure not to overrate your Rishadan Ports but keep on casting creatures. When wielding the WINSTIGATOR list, make sure to resist temptation of overextending with Double-Strike triggers. Winstigator + Pendelhaven is a decent clock.
Cards that support this strategy: Aether Vial, Cavern of Souls, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Chieftain
Meaninful SB cards: Earwig Squad, Pithing Needle

Eldrazi Stompy – slightly favorable
How the matchups works: In this MU your goal is to buy enough time until you can block their way with your hordes. Eldrazi Smasher and equipments stand in the way of that plan. Their major weakness is their manabase. Their best spells cost 4+ mana and demand colorless mana, so any form of manadisruption is effective. Try to read what cards they have in hand. You can read that from the amount of mana they have available and what cards they played last turn. Watch out for some interactions of their spells and lands. A few examples: Eye of Ugin doesn’t actually produce mana, but reduces the manacosts. So, no playing Jitte with Eye of Ugin. Make sure that they tap at least 1 colorless mana when casting their spells. Under a Bloodmoon they will usually not be able to cast any spell with <> in their manacosts. Over a course of several games you will be favored, as their manabase is shaky and their mulligan decisions are more difficult - their deck is less consistent than yours.
Which version to pick: The CLASSIC build really shines here as it is able to run 8 manadenial lands. The WINSTIGATOR build is better in MUs where you want to win the early game – and Eldrazi Stompy is none of them, since their early game is much better than ours.
Cards that support this strategy: Aether Vial, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Mogg War Marshal,
Meaninful SB cards: Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Tuktuk Scrapper

Elves – slightly unfavorable
How the matchups works: In game 1 they are clearly favored. On the way of assembling one of their combokills they can block the board with a bunch of 1/1 creatures and gain value with untaps, mana-abilities and bouncing their own creatures (like Elvish Visionary). Their most effective enablers are Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote and Heritage Druid – so usually you should kill of these first. It is very rare that you can slowly build up an advantage that you can ride to victory. The MU comes down to whether or not you can wipe their board with clean with Pyrokinesis, Goblin Sharpshooter or Perish, so your strategy should support finding one of these. Note that Chalice of the Void seems effective on first sight but in practice they will often be able to play around that.
Which version to pick: The WINSTIGATOR list is the better choice as it support your plan of finding (and casting) boardsweepers better. Also, with Warren Instigator you have a doublestrike-creature that can engage in combat situations more easily.
Cards that support this strategy: Chrome Mox, Warren Instigator
Meaningful SB cards: Goblin Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis, Perish, Pithing Needle, Cabal Therapy, Grafdigger’s Cage

Death & Taxes – favorable
How the matchups works: The worst thing that can happen is that they have an equipment at a moment when you can’t deal with it yet. This would be the case when they have Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2 and you can’t kill SFM before the equipment comes down. Try to grind them out, make favorable trades (or even one-for-ones). We have a cardadvantage engine, while Death & Taxes is only able to generate CA via equipments. Other potentially problematic cards in their deck are Mother of Runes and Phyrexian Revoker (which shuts down a range of valuable cards).
Which version to pick: Both versions will do equally well. The WINSTIGATOR version has easier times going into profitable combat situations, while the CLASSIC list is better at grinding out games until you get keycards on the table.
Cards that support this strategy: Tarfire, Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal
Meaningful SB cards: Tuktuk Scrapper, Pithing Needle, Goblin Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis

Miracles:
- I would also say that Mogg War Marshall is very good in this match-up as it is a two for one that can put pressure on while you develop your hand.
- Warping Wail is really good in this matchup

Eldrazi Stompy:
- Ensnaring Bridge is also extremely good!! It may slow us down but it cripples eldrazi as they suffer D&T syndrome (can't draw well after their board is in a standstill). Also I personally run lightning crafter combo so it doesn't slow you down really.

Elves:
- Chalice of the Void is a good SB card as it prevents most of their deck from being cast.

D&T:
- Blood Moon is actually surprisingly good against them (unless it's Red & Taxes and even then). Over half of their land base is non basic.
- Warping Wail is very good here as well as it counters Cataclysm and Council's Judgement. It also exiles Mother of Runes and Flickerwisp (technically Thalia if there is no Karakas out).

That's my input from playing against these decks.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

@Gobolord

Yea, I did some playtesting with an infect player I know of, (mixed with the fact that I've never lost to it in sanctioned play) and we came to the conclusion that Goblins is just set up to defeat it. I ran a Classic list for the duration of this testing. I should not that, though not as extensive, my less kill spell intensive builds still run a good number. My "low" count is 5 kill (2-3 Tarfire, 2-3 Gempalm Incinerator) and Sharpshooter.

The biggest roleplayer in this match-up is absolutely Rishadan Port in the classic list. MattPruner describes it nearly perfectly. Porting their mana makes them play like a bad delver deck. Their usual backup plan against most decks with any amount of removal is how hard Inkmoth Nexus is to interact with, and we can interact with it pretty easily. To go further because of this mana denial their Brainstorms are often just digging for mana sources instead of combo pieces. That mixes excellently with preventing yourself from getting combo killed all in one turn. Just take the hit, and don't worry about it so much.

Sudden Shock wins this match-up on it's own, in addition to being fine against Stoneblade. Okay SB card.

---

I find the match-up against Sneak & Show on the classic list is slightly negative, but I'm willing to admit a bias as I only seem to run into [cards]Pyroclasm[cards] post board, instead of the relatively more common Sudden Shock. I should note that I tend to die to Sneak Attack and Through the Breach post board. Show & Tell is never the issue.

[GoboLord]

Hello fellow Chieftains,

I played our monthly 6-round event on Monday (Easter holidays, yay!) and this is the short report. Unfortunately I threw away my match notes, so I might not remember the names of my opponents correctly. Also, I will only describes highlights of every game.

Result: 4-1-1 after 6 rounds, 30-something players

A word on the decklist: Because the last monthly event was won by Eldrazi and because Eldrazi Stompy is becoming more popular in general, I wanted to be prepared for that MU. Testing revealed that I needed Rishadan Ports to consistenly beat the deck. Additionally, I threw 2 Blood Moons and 2 Pyrokinesis in the MD as well, because they might as well catch some decks off guard (Lands, D&T, Delver decks). It stayed Mono Red because I don’t want to make Deathrite Shaman a good card (especially in the absence of Tarfire and Pendelhaven). The SB is the result of extensive analysis of the good and bad MUs – simulating exactly how many cards I want to side in and out in 7 what I would consider “relevant” MUs (e.g. Miracles is not a relevant MU, when I’m building my SB). Also, there is Goblin Settler, which I am playing because I had a slot left.

MANA (23)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Snow-Covered Mountains
10 Mountain

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Ringleader

4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Skirk Prospector

2 Blood Moon
2 Pyrokinesis

Sideboard (15)
3 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Moon
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Settler
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Stingscourger


R1: Raimund with BUG Delver (1-1)
[on the draw]
G1: We both mull to 5. The game takes quite long as both of us are drawing only lands. We trade Aether Vial for Abrupt Decay, I have a Ringleader that gives me but 1 Skirk Prospector. At some point his board is Deathrite Shaman and Liliana, while I have him locked under a Blood Moon. Liliana never hits more that 4 counters as I am constantly drawing non-haste creatures that don’t give me any card advantage (so no Ringleaders, no Matron, no MWM. I am holding onto Pyrokinesis the whole time, while feeding Liliana with my lands.at some point Raimund plays a second DRS, removing one of my lands with his first one. At that point I’m blowing them both up with Pyrokinesis, and know that he is locked for good. After some more Liliana action I draw a Mogg War Marshal and Raimund concedes.

PUZZLE TIME #1: What would you board in/out and why?

G2: I don’t remember exactly how this game went, but I remember being too stubborn to concede when I actually was too far behind.

G3: Things looked pretty good for me when extra turns were announced. The game ended in a well-deserved draw.


R2: Niklas (?) with Death & Taxes (2-1)
[on the play]
G1: Both of us start with Aether Vial on turn 1. Niklas has Mother of Runes and Stoneforge Mystic (Jitte) on the following turns, while I have a bunch of Goblins, including Skirk Prospector. Ultimately I collapse under Brimaz, Serra Avenger + Flicker Wisp (carrying Jitte).

-2 Blood Moon, -4 Piledriver, -1 Stingscougrer, + 3 Pithing Needle, + 3 Goblin Sharpshooter, +1 Tuktuk Scrapper

G2: I have Aether Vial and lock him down with 2 Rishadan Port (fueled by Skirk Prospector + Mog War Marshal. Niklas on the other hand has 2 Mother of Runes. I overwhelm him with…I don’t actually know exactly with what.

G3: I open with Aether Vial again, which Niklas shuts down with Pyrexian Revoker. My Lackey eats the Revoker and I am able to use my Aether Vial for half a turn, before Niklas has another Revoker + Mother of Runes. Some turns later I wipe his board woth Pyrokinesis and swing with Chieftain + a bunch of Krenko tokens for the win.


R3: Very nice guy with Mono B (2-0)
[on the draw]
G1: We trade some creatures for removal spells. At some point I have a bunch of lands, draw Matron for Ringleader an Chieftain to alpha-strike him.

-2 Blood Moon, -1 Stingscourger, +2 Goblin Sharpshooter, +1 Tuktuk Scrapper

G2: I quickly overwhelm him (on turn 4 or 5).


R4: Markus (?) with Miracles (2-0) (I’m really sorry, I’m bad with names)
[on the draw]
G1: The first game takes forever and my opponent casts 3 terminus in the first 5 or 6 turns. He fails to find Entreat the Angels, although he shuffles, Ponders, Predicts, spins his Top. Seriously, he must have seen 50+ cards of his deck

-2 Blood Moon, -2 Pyrokinesis, -1 Stingscourger, +3 Pithing Needle, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Goblin Settler

G2: Just the usual Miracles vs. Goblin stuff. Also, he is short on lands.


R5: Falk with bUrg Delver (aka 4c Delver) (2-0)
[on the play]
G1: I mull to 5. I don’t remember the details, but here are some situations: I resolve 2 Ringleaders; kill Delver + DRS with Pyrokinesis, fetch Mogg War Marshal with Matron to buy extra turns against Tarmogoyf. Ultimately I am at 3 life and I am waiting for his 4th and thus lethal Lightning Bolt, wihile I am in need of topdecking creatures that I can throw into Tarmogoyf. Fak himself is at 1 life at this point. The game ends when I draw a Ringleader which resolves and attack him for lethal.

-2 Blood Moon, -1 Goblin Piledriver, +3 Relic of Progenitus

G2: Falk starts with Ponder on his first turn and doesn’t have a removal spell for my attacking Lackey on turn 2. Lackey connects into Ringleader. And I cast Piledriver. At some ppint Falk pays a bunch of life to wipe my board with Fire Covenant. I kill him one or two turns later with Chieftain + Mogg War Marshal.


R6: Jona with Canadian Threshold (1-2)
[on the play]
G1: I keep my 7 with Vial and Lackey. Unfortunately Jona can handle both and I don’t draw a third land for the rest of the game. Big L here.
-2 Blood Moon, -1 Pyrokinesis, + 3 Relic of Progenitus
G2: I mull to 6 and my turn 1 Aether Vial sticks. Jona plays Winterorb, which I can disrespectfully ignore due to my mana-cheating artifact. I overwhelm him a few turns after.
G3: He opens with Winter Orb again, which turn out to be a real problem, as I don’t have any Aether Vial this time. I do have 2 Relic of Progenitus and a bunch of lands though, but ultimately Jona finishes me off with Delver of Secrets after 2 Nimble Mongeese have nibbled on my lifetotal already.

Conclusions
* it’s a little disappointing that I tuned my deck to beat Eldrazis and didn’t see a single colorless creature the whole day. Can’t say though if they were played at all and I just dodged them.
* I boarded out Blood Moon in every match – and I feel like I should have kept it in against BUG Delver.
* the deck felt awkward sometimes as I didn’t seem to draw enough business spells. This might be due to Pyrokinesis and Blood Moon, which are only conditionally useful. Also, Pyrokineis eats your business cards from time to time (you don’t always get to pitch Lackey or Moon).
* changes I am considering:
-1 Relic, +1 Cage;
moving 2 Moons to the SB, and 1 Tuktuk Scrapper to the MD, cut Goblin Settler from the SB and add something else to the MD (probably MWM #4 or Krenko #2).
Questions and comments are – as always – welcome.

[Stevestamopz]

How were the 4 ports for you?

As to the puzzle: How would you board against Bug Delver

-4 Lackey, +3 Relic + 1 Blood Moon.

[iatee]

If you're gonna maindeck Blood Moon, you might want to consider Magus of the Moon. Against matchups where it the Blood Moon effect is bad, at least it's a body. It can be killed, but they're gonna spend a lot of their early removal on your Lackeys etc. And it's very powerful with Cavern/Vial, especially against Delver decks where resolving a 3 mana spell can be hard.

[GoboLord]

How were the 4 ports for you?

As to the puzzle: How would you board against Bug Delver

-4 Lackey, +3 Relic + 1 Blood Moon.

Overall there was just 1 game where they were really good (G2 vs. D&T). That was also the only game where I chose to use Them although I could have cast creatures instead in all other games I used them only when I had some mana left that I would be able to use otherwise. There was 1 hand I mulled because Rishadan Port wasn't a Mountain, and one game where I wished it was a Pendelhaven.
The list can afford to run that many colorless sources though. As soon as splashcolor or more cards with RR in it's mana cost come in , I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping them.
About the SB plan: thanks for that. I ended up boarding Moons out in favor of relic of Progenitus. I feel like rhe stuff that takes me out is either an early delver, a Tarmogoyf that is too large to kill or a well-timed Hymn to Tourarch. I dont see how Blood Moon helps with that. Also I dont like trying to resolve a cmc3 spell when I'm behind on the board.
It might right to keep Moons in, since they might end the game right on the spot when you actually get to resolve them. Probably a question of who goes first in the game.

[GoblinTurkey]

There's a Legacy tournament in Syracuse, NY this Sunday at noon.

http://playthegamereadthestory.com/locations/

North Clinton St. Store

I'm bringing Goblins, hope to see some people there!

[sampi]

Unless your meta is infested with eldrazi I don't think main deck blood moon is needed. Especially considering we can't matron for it and it won't be hit off ringleader. Even a lot of greedy mana bases can play around it g1 with Drs etc. And if we resolve a blood moon t3 we have probably already been hit with Griselbrand by that point.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoblinTurkey]

So I have decided to get back to basics and run Mono Red Goblins. I did some testing this weekend against Eldrazi and Shardless BUG.

Decklist:
Creatures
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
2x Skirk Prospector
2x Goblin Piledriver
2x Mogg War Marshal
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Settler
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Krenko, Mob Boss

Spells
4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire
1x Warping Wail

Lands
4x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Ancient Tomb
4x Arid Mesa
1x Pendelhaven
6x Mountain


Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
1x Lightning Crafter
1x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Warping Wail
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Pyrokinesis
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Blood Moon

I am planning on bringing this list to a tournament on Sunday. It is a GP Qualifier. Any suggestions?

[Sandro95]

R1: Raimund with BUG Delver (2-1)
[on the draw]
G1: We both mull to 5. The game takes quite long as both of us are drawing only lands. We trade Aether Vial for Abrupt Decay, I have a Ringleader that gives me but 1 Skirk Prospector. At some point his board is Deathrite Shaman and Liliana, while I have him locked under a Blood Moon. Liliana never hits more that 4 counters as I am constantly drawing non-haste creatures that don’t give me any card advantage (so no Ringleaders, no Matron, no MWM. I am holding onto Pyrokinesis the whole time, while feeding Liliana with my lands.at some point Raimund plays a second DRS, removing one of my lands with his first one. At that point I’m blowing them both up with Pyrokinesis, and know that he is locked for good. After some more Liliana action I draw a Mogg War Marshal and Raimund concedes.

PUZZLE TIME #1: What would you board in/out and why?

-4 Piledriver, +3 Relic, +1 Blood Moon probably.

I noticed you sided Blood Moon out a lot. I'd say it's pretty good against the delver decks, since they don't run any basics, and have very few red cards.

[jrw1985]

I am planning on bringing this list to a tournament on Sunday. It is a GP Qualifier. Any suggestions?

If you're running 2 Skirk + Kiki you should play Lightning Crafter too. You can cut SGC or the 23rd land for it.

[GoboLord]

-4 Piledriver, +3 Relic, +1 Blood Moon probably.

I noticed you sided Blood Moon out a lot. I'd say it's pretty good against the delver decks, since they don't run any basics, and have very few red cards.

Hmm, I still find that a little too many nnon-creature spells overall.
Imagine I had Tuktuk Scrapper and Settler in MD by default and 3 Moon in SB. Would you really bring in 6 cards (3 relic, 3 moon) for this MU?

I just realized that I originally reported the result of Round 1 as (2-1) whereas it actually was (1-1). That was Wish full thinking I guess :)

[GoblinTurkey]

If you're running 2 Skirk + Kiki you should play Lightning Crafter too. You can cut SGC or the 23rd land for it.

I run one in the sideboard. Do you think the main makes more sense?