But the Line leaves you vulnerable to the Tendrills he had in hand, doensn't it? If you cast SE before his LED he needs 5 Mana to kill you through the flusterstom (because you paid 2 life for the Flusterstorm and has 9 (4 from Lands+LED) avaliable
Nice analysis.
Did he have Tendrils in hand pre-PiF resolution? It seems like an important detail that robots wouldn't have left out if that were the case. If the Storm player had Tendrils in hand (and the Miracles player knew about it), then he's just dead no matter what because all the Storm player needs to do is pay for no more than 6 copies if the Miracles player tries to Fluster it.But the Line leaves you vulnerable to the Tendrills he had in hand, doensn't it? If you cast SE before his LED he needs 5 Mana to kill you through the flusterstom (because you paid 2 life for the Flusterstorm and has 9 (4 from Lands+LED) avaliable
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
I am pretty sure he had it in hand for a long time, they were playing draw go really long and you could see it at some point. He did not knew about it though but I mean after so many turns, and having the decklists available (2 TOA in the SB I believe you have to image it is there.)
This is why I question Force pitching Force the Therapy the turn before. He did have 3 Flusterstorm avaliable and 2 Forces overall, he did even shuffle 1 force away at some point in order to keep Snap+Surgical.
I belive he found the Tendrils off the Brainstorm he cast from his grave. Could be wrong though. Will have to go back and look I suppose. If he has the Tendrils in hand, then we may be dead no matter what that turn, and we'd have to back to the FoW turn to see if anything could have been done differently.
A BIG congratulations to Joe Lossett and his Legends Miracle!
All the talk about the GP Prague deck and nothing on Joe's deck?
Team Bad Guys
I have come up with an excellent way to be happy! Every time someone says a sentence I simply add on a few words after it:
Oh my goodness, it's been so great. People with stupid opinions now immediately acknowledge how dumb they are! Internet fights still have all the swears and name calling but now they're instantly undermined by my new suffix.Originally Posted by You
To those who plays the 4 ponder version. Do you ever board those ponders out? If so, which matchup?
Is Timely Reinforcement worth to consider vs. burn? They have been annoying since the addition of firecraft.
Regardless which version of Miracles you play, there are very few MUs you would need to SB-out Blue cantrips.
Timely Reinforcement is Not even a Legacy competitive card, maybe... Esper stoneblade run it. If you really want to boost your Burn MU, have Pulse of the Fields in the SB and make sure you have answer against Vortex.
I just want something extra for the burn matchup. Vortex is not the biggest issue, but firecraft is. I unfortunately don't have much time to test vs. burn, so Ill take whatever works.
I just thought of timely since it could come in in delver as well.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
Hi guys, here is my report (finished 2nd) :
The list
I've been testing Miracle for quite some time now, and for longer than that if you consider that every deck I played was designed to beat it. I couldn't find this deck anymore (the deck has also to be decent in the metagame) so I had to join the dark side, still with 4 sb rebs because I don't like loosing to Miracles^^. Coming from the Dig Through Time era, I was quite happy to find a replacement in this deck in the form of Predict which fits well my playstyle. It pushes the deck towards a 3 md counterspell/no sb clique as we remain reactive casting cheap spells most of the time. AnziD and Yatree mtgo lists were good inspiration. There is a discussion group where people, especially Truckis, give good insights about the deck. At first I was playing MD ee and second mentor sb but Maxime Gilles (GP Paris finalist with Miracles) convinced me to switch them and I'm glad I did since it won me several matches (especially vs Eldrazi) where MD EE wouldn't have been as good.
The Crew
I met Maxime Gilles, Pierre Sommen and Jean Marie Accart (lejay) at Pragues before going to the hotel, which is 10 minutes away from the venue. I was the only one without a legacy gp top 8, a rather good environment if you want to discuss legacy :).
The Tournament
Day 1
Round 1. Cloudpost Eldrazi with Chalice and Trinisphere. 2-1
First game of the day my opponent opens by "Cloudpost Go". What a great way to start the day when you're playing Miracles ! But the 2 maindeck mentors/entreat allowed me to steal Game 1 and 3. Also, my opponent didn't see his cavern of souls and made some missplays. Still a very nice and friendly player.
1-0
Round 2. Patriot Delver 2-1
Generally I loose early in a GP, just to get the pressure off (not intentionally ofc). This was the game I should have lost or drawn, even if I consider it to be a bye. I made many missplays but my deck didn't want me to loose. So I win thanks to mentor on last additional turn.
2-0
Round 3. Miracles 2-1
I loose game 1 because it's game 1. I don't loose G2&3 because I have 4 rebs and 4 snapcaster postboard. I think I never lost to Miracles in any GPs I took part in. I'm always mean to them.
3-0
Round 4. Shardless 2-1
Nice and friendly player from Germany, we meet afterwards during day 2. I win game 1 on mentor, loose game 2 on lili + tar pit if I remember correctly. I'm on the play Game 3 I sideboarded this way : -4 Force -3 CB -4 Terminus +3 Flusterstorm +1 Snap +4 Reb +2 Wear/Tear +1 Mountain. It payed out since my opponent removed his tarmogoyfs. I eot entreat, he pulses during his turn, I bs into predict and draw counterspell as last card ! (it could have been flusterstorm though - 6 out) I win on 4th Additional Turn.
4-0
Round 5. Eldrazi 2-0
I'm not particularly fond of playing against eldrazi I must say. But I never lost to them this tournament... I win a game thanks to Jace fatesealing him out and another one on entreat while he was short on lands (he went all in on city into chalice T1, but I have answers post board..). Quick games. No Mishra's factory helps !
5-0
Round 6. Grixis Delver 2-1
I lock him out thanks to CB G1. G2&3 I can't remember.
6-0
Round 7. Aggro Loam (Martin Juza) 0-1-1
The one Matchup (with burn and storm maybe :)) where I wish I had 4th Maindeck Counterbalance. First game I can't go past 4 lands while my opponent has only 5 cards left in his deck, because of dredged Life from the loam. Decay has never been dredged and they all ended up on my 3 counterbalance. I have only 3 lands in play. I play a fetch I can entreat for 2 but he can punishing fire them, he's at 5. Then my gameplan is to deck him but he resolves Green sun zenith and I have to concede. I should have conceded much earlier. Very well played by Martin Juza though (no wonder).
I knew I couldn't win and only get a draw, so I was discouraged, which ended up in me siding out volc and not getting mountain in... I can't destroy chalice with dead wear tear in hand because he wastes my volc, even though I have mentor out. I don't force liliana... I was not in this game. I don't like the idea of fighting for a draw.
6-1
Round 8. Burn 2-1
Again, a very nice and friendly opponent from Sussex ! I loose game 1 on a missplay from my part where I choose to play mentor and not keeping counterspell mana. I win game 3 because my opponent drew 4 or 5 lands in row ! Also, my opponent wasn't playing Exquisite Firecraft, which made things a bit easier.
7-1
Round 9. Eldrazi 2-1
Intense games. I win Game 1 thanks to Turn 3 Mentor. I loose Game 2 on ... Winter Orb ! Nice sideboard card in the MU, I was impressed. I win Game 3 thanks to Entreat with Force Back up. My opponent couldn't play his spells properly because he "tombed" himself several times and I never stp-ed his creatures. My opponent cast Matter reshaper off of Ugin and cavern of souls. I don't counterspell but it is counterable... Last game of the day, I'm exhausted.
8-1
Day 2
For some reason I can't eat anything in the morning, I'm about to throw up and I have a headache. I managed to drink a coke after round 11 and eat half a strudel before top 8 but that's it. I put all my trust in my deck, I hope he will do the choices for me... And he does (especially against eldrazi where I see the good half of the deck).
Round 10 Eldrazi 1-1
Fortunately this MU doesn't require too much energy but still I missplay very badly on game 1. I locked him out with Jace at 11 counters. I have cb top out with a 5 and a 2 on top. I'm at 3 without stp or Terminus. I feel like I can't possibly loose this game. But I do. I see 5/5 Trample on top of his library. I let him have it... he plays cavern and I'm dead... I don't feel proud. I win game 2 on entreat with force back up.
Nice opponent who will remain next to my table most of day 2 haha.
8-1-1
Round 11 UBW Reanimator 2-0
At last a match up where I can rest. I win game 1 thanks to an early cb top. I saw white first game, so I'm almost sure he has mentor in the sideboard. So I keep 3 Terminus postboard. My opponent goes T2 Sfm T4-5-6 Mentor, 2 of them get counterspelled (snapcaster mage beeing te second cspell), 1 terminus away. I had wear/tear for batteskull, which is also occasionnally useful vs serenity/needle.
9-1-1
Round 12 Jund 1-1
Very long games. My opponent is amiable but a bit slow (punishing fire). Game 1 he attempts to ultimate liliana I see 2 piles consisting of Plains Tundra Tundra 5 Mentor Tokens and another one consisting of Jace 2 volcanic island 2 island, which made sense to me, since he had 2 wasteland, one of which beeing tapped. I have Top on top of my library and top in my hand. He's at 21, I choose the tokens. When we get to the attack phase, he realized that tokens are there and we call a judge to know whether he can go back or not. He can't so I win g1. I don't board to not loose G2 and I should have. I loose by using my terminus too aggressively, on turn 5.
9-2-1
Round 13 4 color punishing Cascade 2-0
I consider this mu to be quite easy but again, a grindy mu which demands ernergy... I win game 1 thanks to Jace. Game 2 my opponent mulls and starts by playing pithing needle naming... pithing needle. I'm not the only one to be tired in this room. Very friendly opponent though which didn't get too flustered because of that (he well could have).
10-2-1
Round 14 Eldrazi with U splash 2-1
I feel like I have a better Match up against this version because he certainly sacrificed dismember for blue eldrazis. I win G1 and G3 thanks to Mentor.
11-2-1
Round 15 Elves 2-0
My opponent plays 3 Natural Order AND Shaman of the pack/Cavern of Souls, which he played on turn 2. As I didn't see order G1 but the two others, I thought he didn't play them. I win game 1 thanks to Jace/Entreat and my opponent drew poorly Game 2. I didn't play optimally I guess but I had space to do so.
12-2-1
Top 8
At this point, I'm very happy to be in top8, I don't mind loosing, every opponent is very nice and friendly, starting with Niels Molle.
Quarter Finals Niels Molle 2-1
When I see his decklist, it will be hard to win Game 1, and impossible to win game 2/3 if he sees boseiju. We both mulligan Game 1. I keep a hand of 3 ponder 2 lands and Jace. It won't be enough as I get show and tell'ed with (certainly double) pierce backup for my jace that could have bounced emrakul. I win game 2 off my rebs and he doesn't find boseiju. Predict gave me an edge here in the grinding game. Game 3 I open a hand with containment priest. The card can be good but I can't risk it against show and tell because of Omniscience. So I have to fluster 1 show, reb another one, counterspell the third one. I play cb with force on top. He plays the 4th one, I force he forces back, which gets countered by cb. Then I play containment priest which was in my hand all this time to lock out the game (only wish can save him and he's very low on life), I have cb online.
Semi Finals 2-1 Alexander Hayne 2-1
This is on camera. Game 3, I open a hand with 3 swords and 2 snaps I'm afraid about cabal therapy so I get into cheap counters. Better 1 for 1 than 2 for 1. He actually removed them for a more "aggro" plan, which in his list is a bit weak since the whole sb is geared for a more controllish approach. So I was fine with that. I re watched the Vods and I thought : why the **** did I attack with 2 snapcaster ?^^ At the time I thought, I want to make him believe I have nothing and make him remove brainstorm instead of ponder so that I can flash in 3rd snap, but it doesn't work haha (obv) so I have to brainstorm to find something... and I find terminus. Well it was a long day :). I didn't know he won a pro tour, so calm, humble, friendly. A pleasure to play against.
Finals 1-2 Rodrigo Togores
This was on camera. Game 3, I forgot a snapcaster beat but Rodrigo would have played differently. Still a mistake, certainly :). Some told me I had to fluster snap fluster pif. If I do that I die to any ritual + tendrils (he had 3 cards in hand I was sure about top and tendrils). Since he has, for me, 4+ ritual left and at most 4 led left I eliminated this option. So I went all in on my flusterstorm (I had only 2 btw) and restrained him on mana, and force him to find decay + mana. The correct play was maybe to surgical a ritual during the upkeep but I'm not sure. It was a great game and I'm glad I lost to Rodrigo with the rain battling on the roof, just to stop when the game is over. These games were my favorite of the tournaments. Thanks and Congratulations to Rodrigo.
I'd like to thank everyone who cheered for me : Los pollos hermanos , Team Coeur d'Aubergine (who stayed till the end ! Merci pour le pepsi :) ), tous les français de lf, Maxime Gilles, Lejay, Pierre Sommen, Tristan Polz, AfroSmile (always a pleasure) and certainly others (sorry)..
Last edited by Jizz; 06-14-2016 at 01:45 PM.
Hey guys, Top 8 report from GP Columbus up in the Reports forum:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...804#post954804
"Take your time."
Legacy: UWR Miracles
Vintage: UW Landstill
a) clique just feels less powerful lately. its great as a flash beater vs liliana but against shardless 4x snap 3x mentor 3x cs is sufficient to stop her. clique is also mediocre vs eldrazi as its inefficient at blocking; the ability to race is pretty cool but contingent on not plowing one of their big dudes. similarly clique is worse vs grixis delver since it doesnt interact positively with YP or DRS and delver is manageable via blast x1,2,3,4,howevermanyyouwant. in the mirror clique is fine but predict replaces it as the flash threat of choice. clique seldomly resolves while predict can, and being able to protect predict w/ a flusterstorm a turn sooner is critical. vs combo like storm clique is nice in that it is a bigger clock than snapcaster but really vs combo 2 snapcasters combined w/ infinite counterspells is pretty sufficient. the exception is sneak and show for the reason that peeking in their hand is relevant vs boseiju, but i dont know if the % points are worth it.In conclusion there are a little slots i don't get in this build, so i'd like to ask a couple questions:
@AnziD or someone who played a lot the predictable version
a)Why does predictable miracles cut Vendilion Cliques in his sideboard?
b)In which matchups does the 4th snapcaster get boarded in?
c)Why playing 3 MD counterspells?, which part of the metagame makes you want it ?
d)In which matchups does eventually Predict get boarded out?
b) every matchup
c) counterbalance isn't really that great right now. most decks have adapted to it in some way or the other (read: gp lists). on modo it was appearing quite early, but decks like storm have 6 answers now, cb was never great vs shardless or eldrazi, in the mirror cb is good but not on the level of other cards like red blast and snapcaster. i wonder sometimes if i can just play the deck without counterbalances, but out of fear i still play 3. the inspiration was pvddr's top 8 list, which only had 2 counterbalances. if it weren't for lands and burn, who knows, maybe i'd play two as well. counterspell is a generically good card that functions somewhat similarly to cb. the big difference is that it is low power, but high utility (ie less generic). i prefer my build to be as consistent as possible while being just barely powerful enough to win, and this change to 3 cb 3 cs reflects that
d) burn. oops. maybe 1 vs elves. card is a 2 mana instant speed divination, a control player's wettest dreams. i wouldn't board it out ever if i could get away with it
there is 1 caveat - snapcaster and mentor and are not the best at stopping planeswalkers that generate dudes to protect themselves (relentless, arlinn, elspeth KE, etc); here, clique is exclusively better than others. however, these planeswalkers are probably rolled up into the "fringe" category and i dont know if its fair to use them as a reason to play clique over something else
I didn't do too hot at GP Columbus but I did top 8 the Super Sunday Series! Also met all the friends I've made playing an innovating miracles with! Here's the report!
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...965#post954965
Not suggesting we should account for "fringe" strategies, but even more established/meta decks are starting to run these problem walkers. Rather than change our lists once these walkers become more common, shouldn't we be proactive in having cards to stop them (so we're not caught off guard)? To add, Clique is a solid card even in the absence of these problem walkers.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
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