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Originally Posted by Ewokslayer
Call me old fashioned then, but I just can't see your innovation. My post count doesn't mean that I don't know how the deck works. If you're really on to something new, then awesome. I wasn't trying to cut you down for not running standard include cards. I'm just of the school that thinks Game 1 isn't where the deck needs help.
In France, the optimized lists play Yosei, which is better than either sadistic or zelot. Why don't you play it ??
- sorry if you aready debated about this previously, but i did not read all the pages...
FKZ is for the alpha strike, Hypno is a game breaker because he empties hands, Yosei is like an Orim's Chant. Yosei has a great ability but Hypno's discard is more of a lasting effect and FKZ is usually recurred for lethal damage so it wouldn't matter anyway that the opponent is tapped out or doesn't have any cards in hand.
Can a DR Target that requires additional Sac-Outlets to work really be better than one which is black AND a sacc-outlet itself or one that completly cuts 1 colour(and basically reads:gg) ?
DCI: 68 10 43 34
Yosei is a big 5/5 flying which is not negligeable... And it improves your aggro MUs.
Do you need it? Grave Trolls are bigger and Ancestor's Chosen assrapes every Aggro-/Burndeck anyway.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
Yosei improves aggro? So does ancestor's chosen sure I'll gain 30 life and get a 4/4 first striker to use to gain zombies or sack to cabal therapy to DR back to play a second time, shutting aggro down since you'll be at or above 60 life. Yosei requires an additional sack outlet as well. Sure he can effectively time walk your opponent by tapping down their lands and goyfs and whatever but hypnotist discards their whole hand which seems to be a timewalk as well for obvious reasons. Hypno is also a sack outlet and a discard outlet for you if you're stuck with some bridges, ichorids, or dredgers in hand that look better in the yard. I'm not impressed with Yosei. And combo can still go off when yosei taps down all their lands and combo is one of our worse MU's but has been significantly improved ever since we added hypnotist to the MD or SB depending on your metagame.
Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
Ancestor is just the best way to get kicked by the hate. Yosei doesn't need to dredge yourself a lot.
Again, sadistic requires a lot f dredge...
Yeah, but timewalking your opponent is useless if you don't capitalize on the shift in momentum. Gaining 20+ life, plus having a 4/4 first striker, or having a discard outlet/hymn on a stick that makes zombies is far more damaging for an agro matchup. One should already be prepared for hate, and Yosei doesn't help you play around it. From an objective view, it seems Chosen/Hypno is the better creature to Dread Return.
A reanimated Yosei during the combo also protect from the same way sadistic does, and like sadistic it doesn't protect from topdecking hate. But if this situation a reanimated sadistic will kill many tokens whereas yosei will let them on the table.
But, Yosei doesn't needs your grave to be full of bridges to be efficient !! It is exactly the contrary of zelot and sadistic.
Well actually no one claimed that Sadistic Hypnotist is very good against Aggro, but...
...the same is true for Ancestor's Chosen, so what? I mean you might as well DR a Iona and call Red or something, everything that's not Ancestors Chosen requires you to have Bridges (-> i.e. Tokens) to survive a alpha strike. Chosen doesn't and therefore is the best card.But, Yosei doesn't needs your grave to be full of bridges to be efficient !! It is exactly the contrary of zelot and sadistic.
Yosei just fogs once which is the same reason why no one on this planet plays Empyrial Archangel as a SB option against Aggro: It sucks!
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
You have to get creatures on the board and many cards in your grave to have AC being efficient. Therefore, it is even worse than Yosei.
The deck works fine at doing just that in the first place. Yosei is vanilla compared to Chosen/Hypno. It appears that Yosei is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, or rather, it exists but there are more game altering solutions that already exist.
I'd much rather Return an Iona naming Red to beat agro than cast Sleep on them.
If you reanimate AC : nice, a tormod like the next turn slow you down very much (not to say kill you). You'll have won maybe 40 PVs, but is won't prevent you from dying.
Sadistic : great you discard their hands. You weaken your zombie army to do that, and your will probably be killed by a topdeck tormod/relic.
Yosei can either protect you from hate/responses when needed, or tap the blockers for the kill. It also doesn't recquire a lot a creature in play and bridges in the grave. It is a four turn clock (flying, don't argue that AC is a five turns clock cause it is false, it will be killed by any goyf).
Of course, that's the most likely scenario.
@frodo: Dude, you can't randomly rip a crypt/relic off the top unless you brainstorm and hide it there....unless you just rip like a champion. Anyways, depending on how many bridges you have active, you can sack hypno to itself to get 2-4 zombie tokens off of it. Also, on you killing all your creatures to mind twist their hand you have a certain card called ichorid and maybe some narcomoeba's in the library that can net you a lot of tokens to beat down with. Without recursive creatures like ichorid and bloodghast this deck wouldn't exist instead everyone would play cephalid breakfast. But Yosei is just a sleep esque effect whereas ancestor's chosen actually has a lasting effect that extends beyond 2 turns against the entire metagame. And Yosei doesn't really help the storm combo matchup either like chosen does since recurring it twice = gg's since you'll have what 50+ life?
And as for ancestor's chosen being less efficient than yosei because you need creatures on the board, that is a total lie thanks to ichorid/ghast and you being able to sack AC to get some tokens.
Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
I just meant, that it is stupid to dredge yourself of 30 cards not to win the game... Everything but AC makes you win the game in this configuration.
For sadistic : nice, you'll have 4 tokens at the best. Wow. (Icho will also be removed by an anti grave).
I even thought that one could make the capacity of sadistic as in instant. When I re-read the card yesterday, I was amazed how bad it was.
Oh, and by the way, Yosei prevents all the grave hates but tormods. Sadistic doesn't.
I have had 4 at the absolute worst, usual 6-8 or even more. I used to play FKZ and a Sphinx of the lost truth, and then switched to Hypno for testing and he has been fantastic. If they rip the absolute nuts off the top, that card that is so game changing and absolutely wins the game for them, then they deserve to win.
-Chris-
Team Level 4 Wizard
neon_havoc
TheBirdMan
cwt1220
Counterspell7
No. You have 40+ Life and a 4/4 First Striker which blocks every non-Goyf creature to death.
If you lose all your resources to a Crypt, Yosei won't be better because you basically lose your sac-outlets to fog. So Anc Chosen is actually better because it buys you by far more than 1 turn to survive and recover. Yes. Especially when you DR Anc Chosen, sac him to Therapy and DR him again. That actually buys you more than like... 16 Turns if we assume the opponent does 5 damage average per turn.
lol, r u srs?!You'll have won maybe 40 PVs, but is won't prevent you from dying.
I wished I remember all the stuff I did durning probability distrubution, but both of your scenarios are pretty utopic for your opponent as the odds of drawing one of maybe 4 Crypt/Relic without library manipulation are very small when you are forced into the topdeck mode.Sadistic : great you discard their hands. You weaken your zombie army to do that, and your will probably be killed by a topdeck tormod/relic.
Yes it can happen, but while Anc Chosen and Sadistic still forces the opponent to topdeck further, Yosei buy you exactly 1 turn untill you die after you get your resources removed.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
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