The current list as of August 2010:
12 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Wasteland
2 Gaea's cradle
3 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
2 Wren's Run vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
2 Viridian Zealot
4 Chalice of the void
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Krosan Grip
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Thorn of Amethyst
______________________________________________________________________________________
Note: Im a big elf fanatic. I have been playing elves on and off ever since I started playing magic. If Eladamri was still good I would be playing elves instead of Aggro Loam.
So, yeah, there are way to many elf threads on these boards. I see them, and having played this deck since eladamri got its first errata, and I realise that most of these are set up to fail. There are elf chalice aggro, staff combo, and plenty of other less then viable builds in the old Crystalline elves thread. The only elf deck that I have seen since january that I have liked was the elf deck Dave Feinstein toped 4 at in Pawtucket, RI. I do believe that elves, while not as strong, can be a cheaper alternative too Goblins. After plenty of testing, innovations others have made, and some discussions with other players via PM I have come to this list which I believe is extremely tailored to the modern metagame and is very strong. If you are looking for something to base off of, I strongly suggest using this list as a start.
Elves(33):
4 Sylvan messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Viridian Zealot
3 Wren's Run Packmaster
Utility(8):
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Lands(19):
14 Forest
2/3 Wasteland (their is no right answer, this ones totally up to you)
2/3 Gaea's Cradle
Sideboard(15):
4 Leyline of the Void/Tormod's crypt (I prefer Leyline for reasons I will state later)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Root Maze
4 Wren's run Vanquisher
Review of Gameplan:
The deck plays out, in a way, too Goblins... but there are some noticeable differences. Priest of titania and cradles are essentially goblins aether vial and lackey as they are cards that allow you to bring in unfairly high costed cards easily and it also has its own ringleader. Elves have a slightly better time against sweepers then Goblins in my opinion because they run symbiotes and Packmasters. Symbiote is great at nerfing opposing target removal (let them waste spells removing symbiote if they choose) and it has a inborn synergy with Sylvan messenger: bring back messenger from your hand and replay it to look through an extra 4 cards a turn while untapping mana producers or Imperious perfect. Packmaster are great at overunning opponents, having a ginormous ass, and creating defenses. Also the only drawback actually assists the deck in bouncing back after removal (especially good to hide messenger). Use thorn and wasteland to slow the opponent down while you build and then overun them. Also note thatmy sideboard is tailored to my metagame. Yours will not look like mine if you play somewhere else.
Card Choices:
Sylvan Messenger: Self explanatory. Lots of elves plus messenger equals lots of elves in hand.
Priest of titania: Self explanatory.
Elvish Champion: Makes your other guys bigger and forestwalk. Forestwalk is actually the most benefitial of the two since everyone nowadays plays Tarmogoyf. Three mana to give your guys +1/+1 and unblockability against a large percent of the format seems pretty good.
Imperious Perfect: +1/+1 plus creature maker is good. The deck runs the full compliment of 8 lords for maximum synergy between all of your creatures. Since most of our guys are tiny these are needed to mach the opposing creatures.
7 Mana elves: I had orignally ran 6 but since you have to have a accelerant in the opening hand I bumped these up by 1.
ESG: Free mana to allow quicker plays. Also since it was errated to a Elf spirit its gives you the viable option of hardcasting it if the situation calls for.
Viridian Zealot: These were added to improve the decks matchup against non aggro decks. Good against Landstill, Dreadstill, prison, etc... and OK against combo.
Packmaster: Very good card. A 5/5 for 4 with its drawback is still decent, but added the wolf generating ability with no tap requirement makes it really, really strong. Makes a army of wolves with either priest or cradle out but even without them still makes a deathtouch wolf or two which makes it much harder to attack you. Its hideaway ability is very good as it allows you to recover from a sweeper so much faster (Messenger #1 target to hide with this ability). This guy is the biggest reason we have a decent aggro matchup.
Symbiote: Eladamri's replacement. While this guy doesnt protect your guys from removal as well, it has 2 distinct advantages that make it nearly as strong as Eladamri when it was good: Brings the cards back to your hand which helps against sweepers, Synergy with Messenger (should be self explanatory by now).
Thorn of Amethyst:: Since this a deck a Alarming majority of creatures, Thorn of Amethyst is always a one sided sphere effect. Thorn is especially useful in thresh, landstill, and combo matches.
Wasteland Additional mana denial alongside Thorn and is used for mana if needed.
MutavaultI did not run this in my build, but in a meta with a higher aggro percentage this is a perfectly viable substitution to wasteland.
Sideboard choices
Leyline of the void Something I posted in the burn thread but it applies perfectly here too:
Relic This card is coming for Shards of Alara and I think I will be switchin to it and taking out my Leylines. The fact that it hates graves even without saccing itself is really stronger then most people realize and that if you need to, you still crack it to kill graves and draw a card.Originally Posted by technogeek5000
Chalice of the void Since the combo matchup has always been a problem with the deck, 4 chalices along with the four thorns in the maindeck helps to give this deck a fair chance at beating combo.
Caller of the Claw Another thing this deck has problems with is the fact that mass removal is extremely effective against elves. If you have over committed the board against a deck with mass removal (which you should never do anyways) this is one of your only options to keep your self from losing.
Wren's Run Vanquisher This one is my personal choice as of late. Since eladamri has been neutered, this deck has been having problems with goblins and the other aggro matchups became worse. If you need something to give the aggro MU a little boost, then just side in the playset of these and it should help alot.
Root Maze One strength of this deck is that it can apply pressure on the opponents manabase at the same time as its putting pressure on the board. This card effectively does just this as our lands are less nessessary to cast our spells then for our opponents. This card is also effective against aggro loam and combo.
Krosan Grip Just a viable utility card. If artifacts or enchantments are giving you a hard time, this is the best way to get rid of them.
Choke This card is a bomb versus decks with blue obviously. If you really want this to stick then you bait there counterspells once with a 3-cast card then play choke.
Winter Orb Running this alongside thorn and root maze provides the deck with a great mana denial strategy. But I advise that you should really only use this if you are running root maze and thorn because otherwise your opponent will be able to play around orb.
Cards that didnt make the cut:
Fetchlands/duals: This deck truly wants to stay Mono colored because all the answers it needs for problem matchups are either convienently in green or are artifacts. Also replacing elves with splash color utility cards in the maindeck is a mistake as this deck is tight enough as is and their really arent any cards that we desperately need. Also I have seen decks runs fetches in monogreen for thinning alone which is a mistake (I dont remember where I read it, but in one of the threads here they did a calculation and it revealed that you really only get like a .6 percent better chance of not drawing that card) as its not worth the life and opening yourself up to stifle.
Eladamri The largest reason that Eladamri is no longer good is this: it is always going to be a loss of tempo. When Eladamri was errated it was good because it invalidated several card in their deck. If you cast Eladamri now, your opponents first priority is to kill it so if you spend a turn casting this you are losing a turns spell because as long as there deck has removal in it, it will almost always be killed the same turn or the next. This makes the fact that its a elf largely irrelevant.
Liege This card is strong but its 4 mana cast is very prohibitive and seeing as we already have 7 4 casts adding 2-3 more leaves you with cards you cant cast in hand often. Since your never going to run 4, its ability to boost copies by 2 is irrelevant and its discard ability will only matter if your opponents hits it with a hymn or hippie.
Jitte I like this card, but essentially there just wasnt enough room. The maindeck is filled to the brim with must run cards and the bonuses jitte provides are not as nessesary as other cards (are creatures already get big, -2/-2 doesnt kill as many things as it used to, and we dont normally need the life boost)
Staff of Domination Obviously this allows you to go infinite with priest but it is situational and makes your deck significantly more vunerable to hate. Without a priest this card does very little for you and even with priest you still need another 4 elves in play for the combo to go off. With all the counters, creature removal, and artifact hate in the format, the odds of you comboing off with staff are low enough that you just better off going the aggro control route.
Talara's Battalion Essentially the same reason that I dont run vanquishers maindeck, they dont help out other elves. Sure its bulky, but it doesnt do anything other then attacking which is very anti synergetic. Also its not a sure cast as it will occasionally be stuck in hand.
MU's:
Threshold I know that everyone nowadays is claiming too have a favorable MU against thresh, but this is no BS... our thresh MU is pretty good. This decks has a constant supply of must counter cards and if thresh lets them in then they are in trouble. Stalling their board is easy as their lack of trample allows us too put mana elves in front of geese/goyfs with no life penalty. Imperious perfect makes a constant supply of chump blockers which will stall thresh close to indefinately. Symbiote helps to dodge thier removal and the forestwalk given by champion is game ending. Packmaster makes a wall of deathtouch wolves, has a great body for combat, and hides a creature so that even if they manage to remove it they will have another threat to deal with. Elves casting curve dodges CB and lastly thorn + wasteland offers alarmingly efficient mana denial versus them. After the board you have several options on how to board. As long as in G2 and 3 you prepare for pyroclasm you should be set.
Goblins Goblins has many different advantages on us which makes this matchup less then favorable. Thats not to say you cant win, but their are a few things your going to want to look for in a opening hand to make sure you dont fall behind in tempo. First off your going to want atleast 2 pieces of acceleration, it doesnt matter which just as long as your doing something turn 1. Also your going to want 1 card that puts more creatures into play, whether its perfect, messenger, or packmaster is normally irrelevant... just as long as you have a constant supply of creatures to put on the board. Post board bring in Vanquishers in place of thorns and if you see fit callers to boost your creature count.
Landstill This matchup is less favorable then I would like it to be but still winnable. It usually depends on the type of landstill, but since the addition of zealots it has gotten easier as we have a out too deed, moat, etc... The hardest part about this matchup is predicting countermagic and making sure your applying the right amount of board pressure while not over commiting. As long as you save a few elves to help you bounce back from a wiper, have symbiote or packmaster championig something relevant then you should be able to push through with the win. Post board rootmazes (or winter orb/grip/choke if you run them) go in and they should rob your opponent of enough tempo that you should be able to set up before they can attain board control.
Survival This deck has a better time with aggro decks and this is one of them. Forestwalk from elvish champion is amazing here as it ends the game the turn it comes down or the turn after barring them having instant speed removal. Packmaster is great here because if you get one or two wolves out you have effectively stopped their attack. Zealot is good here as it kills their survival which will slow them down enough to almost always give you the win. Post-board you side out the thorns for vanquishers which will improve this even more.
Aggro Loam Another bad MU. Them resolving dreams against us is bad, so try to keep a land a creature in hand if possible to help you bounce back. You want to lay a symbiote down before anything else as it will save your ass if they are killing you with dreams. Packmaster is great here as it dodges dreams and it makes deathtouch wolves which answers their big creatures. Zealot helps to get rid of seismic assault if nessesary. Basically what you want to do is suprise them with a elvish champion when yo have a board to swing in for lethal. Thorn is also another great card to get out early as it will fuck up most of their gameplan and give you time to establish your board. Post board this becomes much more favorable as your siding in root maze and Leyline of the void. When you have leyline out they cant crack dreams and their creatures will never be able to match yours so just plow right through them. Root maze is the best stall piece as it ruins their manabase and loam engine. Basically in this matchup your trying to stall for time while building your side. If you can effectively do this then Aggro loam shouldnt be to much of a problem.
Dreadstill Dreadstill was slightly favorable before I ran maindeck artifact hate so as you can imagine it shouldnt be too hard to pull out the win. The reason being is the same one that gives us good game against thresh: we have too many must counter spells: messenger, zealot, thorn, packmaster, etc... Dreadstill cant attack us if we have creatures on the table because one dropped lord will normally end the game. You should always be able to control the dreadnought (or chump enough damage so that they cant kill us in time). Also, since goyf dreadstill is becoming increasingly popular among the dreadstill variants you gain forestwalk out of champion which is the biggest factor to us racing them. The big thing here is too not blindly run into countermagic and get as much damage in as fast as possible. Side in vanquishers post board for extra damage and because they are the perfect chump blocker for nought.
Ichorid Basically what your trying to do is play as many elves as fast as you can to delay the zombies. To best do this you want to try and get out packmaster as fast as possible so you can make a good supply of wolves to throw at the zombies. This whole matchup preboard is decided on what your attacking and blocking with so if you can them (albeit not that often). Postboard is where you will try to get most of your wins. Basically you have the same gameplan only this time you switch out thorns and zealots for leylines and vanquishers.
Storm Combo Thorn is you best friend here. You always want this in your opening hand so if you dont have it in your first seven, I would advise mullagining to 6 to help your chances. Wasteland also helps to slow their manabases down, which is really what your trying to do here. If you dont have thorn or waste, you reall dont have that great of a shot pre board unless your opponent fizzles. Post board you bring in Root mazes and chalices (also you can bring in leyline if you decide that it will effect them enough to warrant it). Root maze and chalice make it very difficult to combo off because it prevents their artifact mana (that can be reliably cast turn 1) which is very crucial to their gameplan. A combination of thorn/root maze/ and/or chalice normally buys you enough time to win or draw into more hate.
Painter You want to stall their combo as much as possible and to do that you play all the zealots, wastes and thorns you have. If you can keep them off the combo for a few turns then it gives you time to play your creatures and apply pressure on the opponent. I dont have very much painter in my meta which is why I omitted the grips but if their is a significant presence of painter then It wouldnt be a bad idea to throw in 3-4 as they are crucial for this MU.
Dearest Wizards,
I have been a very good boy this year. I spent more money on cards this year then I have since I started playing magic. When you made Eladamri, Lord of Leaves good, my life was complete. I spent enough money on the deck to let me play in tournaments and life was good. But then you killed it and made me very sad, and I was forced to go and buy a new deck. My birthday is coming up soon and if you could give me one of the following cards from Shards of Alara to work with in in my elf deck I would be ever so grateful
Elf with thorn of amethyst in his pocket 1GG (basically a elf glowrider... this is the one I want to see the most)
Non-creature spells cost 1 more to play
2/2
Elf that cut off Gelmpalm incinerators hands GG
GG, Discard Elf that cut off Gelmpalm incinerators hands: Deal 4 damage to target creature.
1/2
Eladamri's Baby Nephew GG
Legendary
Elves have shroud and forestwalk
1/2
Putting all my hopes and dreams in this letter,
TG5K
Last edited by technogeek5000; 08-26-2010 at 10:36 PM.
Call me Ishmael
I'm glad you finally got this thread up. I've been itching to post. Here is a list that I rather like and have been working with. It's been working out rather well. I will say this, however, Chamelion Collosus has been working out great in other lists I've been trying. Additionally, the deck doesn't need the Mutavaults, or at least, not as many. I've had to mulligan many times because Mutavault isn't a Forest. Packmaster is an interesting choice, what do you prefer to Champion with it? Finally, in the list I gave a link to, I'm thinking of changing Ranger for Symbiot. Have you been able to pull of the Symbiot/Messenger engine?
Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)
You have explained why you think Leyline of the Void is just as good in a deck that can't hardcast it, as it is in a deck that can. You didn't explain why you prefer it so much over Tormod's Crypt, which doesn't generate dead topdecks because every deck can hardcast it (and when sideboarded, probably have use for it).
The rest of the deck looks pretty solid. For elvesHave you considered stuff like Hurricane?
About Eladamri and his errata, the only errata I see of him is his creature-type errata. Is that what you keep moaning about?
Last edited by Skeggi; 09-10-2008 at 04:46 AM. Reason: typo
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Since your running Leyline, why not throw in Helm of Obedience in the SB as well? Helm of Obedience may even be good alone in the deck, since your elves can generate massive amounts of mana. Might be something to consider.
You spend 4 SB slots to Wren's run Vanquisher (a MD card) against aggro decks... why not put jitte here??
Is 20 or more times better against aggro decks
Could you please take a quick look at the list that Top 8'd the Legacy Championship and comment on it? I'll go ahead and save you the trip. Here's the list:
7 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Imperious Perfect
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Skyshroud Elite
4 Sylvan Messenger
3 Wirewood Herald
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
// Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Umezawa's Jitte
Wirewood Herald (and consequent maindeck silver bullets)? Nettle Sentinel? Wolf-Skull Shaman? Garruk? Heritage Druid? Quirion Ranger? They all look like options you should comment about.
I actually liked your fetch comment a lot. I've been fiddling with the deck for a while and I was quickly coming to the same conclusion. As for the Vanquishers... I can't really imagine them not being MD material. Can't say the same for the Packmasters...
Thank you.
I must admit the OP deck seems to have some glaring omissions.
What were your reasons for not even considering Heritage druid/nettle sentinel combo (it's not even in the cards that didn't make it list), or wirewood herald.
If it's the age old "this is an agro deck not combo, then I suggest you rethink it as heritage druid allows sick plays with sylvan messenger to have about 10 creatures in play on turn 3.
Not having caller of the claw in the sb is also worrying given how the deck scoops to mass destruction.
I have a long long history of playing elves, so these are not T2 suggestions, this is from someone who has never dismantled their 1st elves list and simply tuned it every set :)
The fetchlands are actually there to remove lands to make the sylvan messenger piles a lot better.
what about replacing priest of titania with Heritage druid and putting in the nettle sentinel for Affinity like elves?
Heritage + 2 Nettles and a Sylvan Messenger will net you tons of elves.
I am pretty sure Vanquishers should be maindeck. Thorn, ESG, and maybe Priest seem like cards you could cut for it.
What about Aether Vial and/or Wolf-Skull Shaman?
Also, I don't think the Heritage/Birchlore/Nettle engine belongs here -- this is a straight aggro deck, not combo.
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
Erh... you guys totally lost me... how does THIS:
Nettle Sentinel - G
Creature - Elf Warrior (Common)
Nettle Sentinel doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
Whenever you play a green spell, you may untap Nettle Sentinel.
2/2
Combo with this:
Heritage Druid
G
Creature - Elf Druid
1/1
Tap three untapped Elves you control: Add GGG to your mana pool.
You tap three [or less] Nettle Sentinels to Heritage Druid for GGG. You then use that mana to play a green spell, untapping the Nettle Sentinels. If you have enough, you can keep playing spells off the three green mana per green spell you play.
It also allows you to accelerate into a very fast agro attack, yes it can be used to combo but it also works very well in agro.
Without it the deck is just a very inferior goblin deck.
Thanks. I had totally missed that
I just feel like the thread is misnamed.
Elf Aggro implies that this is a very aggressive build of elves.
I think such a list should have more in common with this list...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112818
I can't help but feel that not running Vanquishers and Talara's Battalion is a mistake.
My current elf build feels much faster and more aggressive.
It runs cards like...
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Wren Run's Vanquisher
4 Talara's Battalion
3 Wilt Leaf Liege
3 Concordant Crossroads to give all my guys haste and acclerate the win by two turns.
Wilt Leaf Liege is basically just like the elf lords at pumping your guys. But it's so much more aggressive, acting as a 4/4 beatstick itself. Yes it costs one more mana, which honestly isn't a big deal because I am running Quirion Ranger (which lets me double down on mana by untapping a Llanowar and returning a tapped land to replay it).
Crossroads is also awesome. Letting you tap Priests for Mana the turn you play them, or replay them after bouncing them with Wirewood Symbiote. Letting you beat with Lieges and others the turn that you cast them. It all speeds up the deck a great deal.
I'm glad you're running Wirewood Symbiote though. It's an automatic four of in every elf list imo and it's one that too many lists ignore.
I'm not saying going the pure aggro route (playing Talara's, Vanquishers, Elites, Lieges etc) is definately better. Actually, that's a lie. I think going that route is indeed better, it sure feels that way.
I've been looking at your list again, a bit closer. I must say it's the first Elf list I like. I totally agree with not putting Wren's Run Vanquisher mainboard, in spite of what general consensus seems to be.
In fact: I think it's misplaced in the sideboard too. I think the 4 slots are better spent with cards like Dense Foliage or City of Solitude, dare I say, Krosan Grip.
About Leyline of the Void: you do realise that decks that use their graveyard have ways to bounce stuff for instance. They know Leyline gets them down, so they have hate against the hate. In my experience, Crypt is better, especially when you can't cast a Leyline.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
I've tinkering a bit on MWS with both the deck list from the opening post and teh GenCon deck. Niether list is perfect IMO, but so far I like the GenCon list much better. It simply has more tricks.
- The Nettle/Heritage interaction is strong.
- Quiron Ranger is strong with many of the elves. Use it with Perfect to quickly assemble an army.
- Priest may actually NOT needed!
- DeathTouch is decent.
- 1 Chameleon Colossus is decent too
However, I'm not conviced about Garuk. He could be replaced maybe with 2 Elvish Champions. Or maybe 2 Viridian Zealots - I wouldn't mind seeing some main deck Enchant/Artifact hate.
When they first errated Eladamri all they did was make him an Elf. By this he made himself untargetable similar to Crystalline Sliver (Hence the Name Crystalline Elves) but the second errata changed his text to "Other elves" making your opponent able to target him.
Also from my Elf aggro days, [Pre Tarmogoyf in heavy thresh meta, I must agree with Technogeek, Elves definitely have a favorable thresh MU Forest walk is just so brutal] Wirewood Symbiote+Sylvan Messanger is the tits! Best Ringleader Ever.
Edit:
Here is the list I have been messing around with recently and having success with.
// Lands
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
9 [ST] Forest (3)
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle
3 [MOR] Mutavault
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
// Creatures
2 [LE] Caller of the Claw
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
4 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
3 [5E] Llanowar Elves
3 [IN] Elvish Champion
4 [US] Priest of Titania
4 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
3 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
3 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LE] Caller of the Claw
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
Team Hammafist
Lots of response so Ill try my best to answer everyones questions truthfully.
First off Chameleon colossus fights with the 4cc slot which is why I dont run it. The list you posted has only 10 base green sources and is extremely vulnerbaly to wasteland which would be why your getting color screwed. I said that you should run mutavault OR wasteland... not both. Also I tend to get the interaction out 1 out of every 3-4 games.
Leyline has the suprise factor on its side which is one of the biggest reasons I prefer it.You have explained why you think Leyline of the Void is just as good in a deck that can't hardcast it, as it is in a deck that can. You didn't explain why you prefer it so much over Tormod's Crypt, which doesn't generate dead topdecks because every deck can hardcast it (and when sideboarded, probably have use for it).
The rest of the deck looks pretty solid. For elves
About Eladamri and his errata, the only errata I see of him is his creature-type errata. Is that what you keep moaning about?
Hurricane affects your own guys which is probably not the best gameplan.
Eladamri used to give itself shroud which it no longer does. Thats why it was good.
Wren's run vanquisher increases your creature density to make sure you always have a steady supply of threats on the board. Plus our creatures get big enough already.
I dont like nettle sentinel plus heritage druid synergy because you need 2 copies of nettle sentinel too work (probably better off having 2 of what you took out for it) and you can only play a limited amount of spells. Wolf skull shaman is... ok. Remember your not always going to get the wolf every turn and without packmaster it just makes vanilla 2/2s.
Talara's battalion and vanquisher have no synergy with the rest of the deck. The straight aggro plan they provide is not what the deck needs. Packmaster is a excellent sink for priest, cradle mana and its only drawback is actually beneficial.
The combo is just too hard to assemble as you need 2 copis of nettle sentinel, heritage druid, lands and messenger to get the situation you just describe. Its just inconsistent as when your getting only nettle sentinels or just druids your hands are going to be rather lackluster.
Like I said in the opening post, my sb is tailored to my metagame. There are less landstill and more Aggro loam so root maze serves me better then caller does. If you have a higher landstill density then by all means run caller.
Like I said it actually affects that so little that its not worht the one life and opening yourself up to stifle.
Yah, your build is faster then mine, but you also punting the control and combo matchups. Thats why the aggro control strategy is, in my opinion stronger. Straight aggro strategies are almost unviable and even if they are, this deck will never be able to match the conistent speed of decks like Goyf sligh so were better off sacrificng the potnential turn to disrupt the opponent.
I didnt find the nettle interaction strong. The fact that you need 2 nettle sentinels for it to work means you would probably be better off having two copies and one copy of alternative cards (priest, zealot, vanquisher, whatever your taking out.
Quirion ranger has synergy with with perfect but symbiote synergy with messenger is better (atleast Im assuming thats the slot that ranger took... correct me if Im wrong).
I have never doubted priests power and have always realized the amount of elves I get out regularly will always be less if I didnt have priest. I certainly test it for some other beats or utility + a additional cradle but this is just my hypothesis.
Deathtouch is good, and my list has it in packmaster.
Chameleon colossus fights with messenger and packmaster and both are sinkls for your rediculous mana count. Chameleon will get chumped but the creatures packmaster makes wont. Also the 4cc slot are always cards that help you recover fro a sweeper. Again this is just my hypothesis. Im still gonna try it out.
If I missed anything that you think I should address then by all means say so.
Call me Ishmael
I don't know whether you'd want this main or board, but one card I found to be phenomenal in Elves back in the day (and this was in an unpowered 1.5 meta, so take it with a grain of salt) was Ritual of Subdual. Elves have a relatively easy time paying the upkeep, and having thep ower to effectively lock the opponent out of playing spells can be very powerful. I would give it a spin, at least as a sideboard card against decks like LftL or Landstill.
Alternately, ZOMG FOOD CHAIN MOSH SIDEBOARD INTO COMBO PLAN!!!! You should try it.
+4 Food Chain
+3 Fierce Empath
+1 Sundering Titan
+1 Myojin of Night's Reach
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
The list I run has a slightly different approach, it looks like a Stompy deck and I think it should be treated that way. This list gets some 6/6 creatures rather than a 30/X one:
9 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Boreal Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Priest of Titania
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Gempalm Strider
4 Tribal Forcemage
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
The deck design here is simple since every nonland card in the deck must serve one of the following purposes: acceleration, global pumping, or protection.
- Acceleration: this means getting things faster than we should. Additional mana is the best way, but extra cards are also important, especially after massive removal. All mana-producing elves, Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote, Sylvan Messenger and Garruk are useful for this. Also Gaea's Cradle.
- Global pumping: in contrast to cards like Invigorate or Berserk, we need a way to get all our creatures big at once. We have Gempalm Strider, Tribal Forcemage, Imperious Perfect and Garruk for this.
- Protection: Wirewood Symbiote can also save creatures from removal. It's also useful to recur triggered abilities (Sylvan Messenger, Tribal Forcemage) or return a Gempalm Strider in play to cycle it. In strange situations where someone somehow is trying to destroy our basic Forests, Quirion Ranger has something to say as well.
These concepts explain why big elves like Wren's Run Vanquisher, Talara's Batallion, Nettle Sentinel or Skyshroud Elite are missing, since they don't serve any of these purposes. Wren's Run Packmaster is too expensive and slow even with the insane amount of mana we can get. Heritage Druid produces mana but not by itself, so its acceleration is unaffordable. Chameleon Colossus is a 4/4 elf with protection from black, which doesn't make the cut. Elvish Champion, however, can easily replace Imperious Perfect; it just depends on the metagame if forestwalk is better than elf tokens or not. IMHO a split is incorrect and we should run only one of them.
About the cards:
- Fyndhorn and Llanowar Elves: self-explanatory.
- Boreal Druid: clearly worse than the previous two, but 12 1cc elves that produce mana looks like the correct number. It's here just until another Llanowar Elves version is printed.
- Quirion Ranger: untaps mana-producing creatures and "produces" mana by itself if we have no 2nd turn land drops. Possibly the weakest creature in the deck and the first one to be sideboarded, but good nonetheless.
- Wirewood Symbiote: saves Priests of Titania or Imperious Perfects, recurs CIP effects and makes any nontoken elf an eternal chumpblocker. Being an Insect is its biggest handicap, but makes the cut anyway.
- Priest of Titania: possibly the main target of all spot removal, if it lives to lose summoning sickness we win 50% of the game.
- Imperious Perfect: it loses potential if no one play Engineered Plague, since we generally make tokens when we have nothing better to do. They win the game when the global pump takes place, though. Elvish Champion's forestwalk seems equally effective.
- Sylvan Messenger: card draw is always good. Not much else to say about it.
- Gempalm Strider: one of the global pumping components, and the only one without giving trample but with a true surprise factor. Not bad on the table if necessary.
- Tribal Forcemage: a morph creature in a monogreen deck is rare and few people could guess what it is. After that it's just a warning ("Do something or die next turn"), but pumps at instant speed like Gempalm. Overall very good and probably the second best component.
- Garruk: if this deck can win something in a tournament, it's thanks to this card. It can give tons of mana by untapping Gaea's Cradle while setting an Overrun for the next turn, and in extreme cases we can drop it turn 2. The number is 3 because of the legendary condition.
The sideboard is vast, so I just list the cards I'm using right now. I just give up against combo decks btw:
4 Viridian Zealot
3 Krosan Grip
4 Tsunami
4 Fecundity
- Viridian Zealot: self-explanatory.
- Krosan Grip: where Zealot fails (Humility, usually Engineered Plague, etc.).
- Tsunami: against blue-based control, like Landstill.
- Fecundity: against massive removal. It looks better than Wirewood Herald + Caller of the Claw IMHO.
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