Its proven itself to me in 4 out of 4 tournaments. Bringing me a 3rd place finish at my a large local tournament run by Dragon's Lair, then going 3-1, 3-1, 3-1. I've played many tournaments with affinity before, with many different builds in each format the evil machine arrived in. This is the perfect version imho.
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of Synod
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Thoughtcast
4 Force of Will
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Somber Hovergaurd
SB
2 Powder Keg
3 Echoing Truth
3 Mana Leak
3 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawas Jitte
2 Tormods Crypt
Its one of the European creations played at Iserlohn. http://www.germagic.de/dc/event.php?...y+Februar+2007
Ive played against alot of decks and the aggro control match is definitly the best. Swords to Plowshares is a laugh. Modular and Plating make everything a lethal creature. Since you play Chalice maindeck you skip your one drops, a fine thing to do with the affininity mechanic. This is the first thing I underestimated when sleeving the deck. Dropping Chalice for 1 off Ancient Tomb or Chrome Mox is powerfull enough to straight up win games against thresh decks. It makes sure you dont see swords at all, and it gives you some fighting power against combo decks like Solidarity. They cant usually wish and bounce chalice before dying to the machines turn 3/4.
No Vial and no Disciple seem scary but the benefit of Chalice of the Void cannot be ignored. The decks only real bad matches were combo decks, which we just worked out. Speaking of combo, now featuring Force of Will has your opponent thinking twice whenever there are 2 cards in your hand. Force is additional combo hate and helps assure you a turn 3/4 kill much more reliably. Berserk and Fling are cool but they dont stop Wrath, Confinement, or TES from comboing. The blue card ratio is tight and very comparable to Faerie Stompy. 16 blue cards and only 8 blue mana sources. You just need to manage them wisely which is the hardest part of playing the deck. Knowing when to imprint Force instead of keeping it, knowing when to play Thoughtcast to draw into threats when Force is in your hand. Hell even when to cycle Cloud of Faeries is important to you.
The decks strengths are in its straight aggro plan with 8 great back up cards. (FoW/CotV) You rely on a decks inability to deal with quick clock + disruption. So far in my testing these were my matchup results..
Wombat (white control) +
Your really fast, WoG is really slow. It cant stop you just like in the days of standard. Swords is terrible against you and Force is the final nail in the coffin.
Madness +
They're counterspells are useless and your large count of flyers combined with plating win the game. The only card to be carefull of is Jitte which you can avoid by blocking and saccing to Rav or playing your own post board.
Survival +
Survival is slow as balls. You shut down Rootwalla and BoP with Chalice and Force the key card. Flying for the win.
This is where I mention only the early game matters in most matchups.
Affinity =
Theyre fast so they match your fat dudes early. It comes down to who has a flyer with plating which is usually you since you play more but they have Disciple who really decides who wins the affinity match. You can force him or Chalice for one. Vial can be detrimental to the match or not matter at all.
White Weenie +/=
Traditional White Weenie and Angel Stompy are easy matches since they follow the aggro/control role you tool. Swords sucks against you and Mother of Runes doesnt grant pro brown. If they're playing Death and Taxes that changes things since they have Mangara Lock and Aether Vial. Both great cards against you. Kataki is the only huge threat to worry about from a white deck.
TES +
This matchup really depends on who goes first but you have 12 awsome cards against them. You have Chalice, which is sometimes better to drop @ 0 as long as it wont effect you, and you have Wasteland which is awsome against them with clocks. Force is very key, especially when its a surprise factor. On that note, most people playing against you will never see the first Force coming. If TES goes first and pushes for a very early combo they can get the win, its difficult and playing Force kind of makes them play by opening with Xantid Swarm, giving you more time to play shit like Chalice.
Solidarity +
This is way better than the matchup with Vial Affinity which was good to begin with. The key to that matchup was finding 2 ways to win. Trying with combat then instant speed via Shrapnal Blast or Disciple. Now you have Force and Chalice to help instead. Force makes them always try to combo with they're own counter back up, playing slower and giving you more time to win via quick beaters. Chalice is almost always an auto win since your clock is so fast, they cant possibly bounce it and combo. The red versions just get better for you since they have Wasteland targets and Rack and Ruin instead of Rebuild.
Goblins -
This matchup is bad just like it was as Vial Affinity, only now you have Cloud of Faeries which are terrible against fanatics. The only games you can win are ones where you open with a quick CotV@1 to shut down vial. Luckly lackey isnt a problem since you have a million turn one answers, even thopter. The green splash is what really makes things bad because Tin Street Hooligan is Viridian Shaman on crack.
Deadguy/Red Death =
This seems like it would be easy but your mana base is very tight. Vindicate and Sinkhole can ruin you if you have no Darksteel Citadel. Remember its worth when trying to decide on keeping a hand. Chrome Mox is very important and should almost always imprint a card before it gets Duressed or Hymned. Chalice is important and also determines the outcome of the game altho not as much as goblins since theres no vial to stop, just shit like Lightning Bolt/StP and Duress. Watch your ife total when using Ancient Tomb mana, consider dropping Chalice for 2 as it hits most win conditions and nasty cards.
Thresh +
This matchup is easy as pie. Chalice is your best friend, resolve it and enter win phase. Swords is terrible against you even without the chalice thanks to Modular, your high creature count, and Plating. Next to chalice, plating is your best card. It makes everything to hard to handle and as big as their men. Try to save force for letting it resolve, nothing in their deck matters to you so always use to FoW to get through counterwalls. In the early game dont play around Daze unless trying to resolve plating or chalice. Setting thresh back a land drop is a game winner and they wont figure that out unless they remember me saying it here.. Daze combined with your Wastelands are the reason they have a bad matchup against goblins. Add affinity for artifacts and watch them burn.
My matchup analysis is based of my personal testing. Pick this deck up, its amazing. The only thing I changed from the original list was -1 Jitte +1 Wasteland. I wasnt comfortable with only 15 land and waste is always a great 4 of. I moved it to the sb.
So far the only other changes Id make are incorperating Ninja of the Deep Hours or Trinket Mage in the Cloud of Faeries slot. I like them alot since they play so many roles in the deck so im not sold on though. Go build the deck! Discuss!
Thanks to bane of the living for the primer
Last edited by 264505; 04-23-2007 at 06:28 PM. Reason: better front page
4 ornithopter! you have to be kidding me, you have to run some supporting colors, you lose all of the power from disciple fling! I mean maybe you could run broodstar at the worst, and you can't support mox/fow in affinity.Originally Posted by 264505
you just can't.
I think Affownity won an 85 man tournament in Madrid, so apparently you can.
Thopter blocks lackey, carries plating, and is a free artifact. Sounds v. good in this format.
The deck is solid, I really think you need 4x Tomb MD though. Chalice needs to hit the table at one, turn one.
This deck is so good, I imagine a lot of Extended people are going to be considering it as a possible port of their Affinity decks to Legacy, and it's also budget Faerie Stompy for those of us who don't own Sea Drakes.
This is the list I ended up with, I think it has a couple of serious improvements over the original list;
MD
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Chrome Mox
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Ornithopter
4 Fledgling Mawcor/Keeneye Aven
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Force of Will
4 Miscalculation
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
SB
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Winter Orb
4 Chill
4 Pithing Needle
Removing Wasteland for the other 2 Mana Lands makes the deck more consistent, considering Chalice of the Void at one is how this deck wins games on the first turn, and Cloud of Faeries can untap 2 Mana Lands for acceleration and the deck NEEDS a lot of mana, it's superior to Wasteland, which was good in a single match up, TES.
The second change is cutting Somber Hoverguard and Thoughcast, which are the worst cards I have ever seen in a competitive deck, for Fledgling Mawcor and Miscalculation. The problem with Somber Hoverguard and Thoughtcast are their speed, and the fact that I never wanted to imprint another blue card to cast them, U for a 3/2 with evasion and U for Draw 2 cards isn't impressive when it's on turn 3+, the deck has the mana for a more impressive threat or draw spell, and they're otherwise dead cards with out a blue source, so I cut them for Fledgling Mawcor and Miscalculation.
Fledgling Mawcor looks awful on paper, and he can be replaced with Keeneye Aven, but being able to Morph him onto the board as a 3 for 2/2 means he's never dead, and for 3U he's still in this deck's price range as an additional evasive threat with a useful ability. I chose Fledgling Mawcor over Keeneye Aven because I was tired of having to Cycle all of my blue cards away, and Fledgling Mawcor has better tempo as 3 for 2/2 attacker; nevertheless, Keeneye Aven can kill a Goblin Warchief and survive, can't be killed with Fire/Ice and Magma Jet and is harder to Gempalm Incinerator while Fledgling Mawcor has to relegate himself to pinging the one X/1 Goblins and dying easier.
Miscalculation is just better than Thoughtcast, 2 to draw a card and U to draw 2 cards are similar in effect, and 2 to draw a card is easier to support than the U to draw 2 cards in this deck, furthermore, Miscalculation gives the deck an additional counter to prevent the opponent from comboing or casting a card this deck doesn't want to see, Null Rod etc., which is something this deck wants (Look at Mana Leak in the SB, it's appr. the same thing except Miscalcuation can be included in the MD because it can Cycle). The best argument for cutting Thoughtcast tho' is that it's the one card this deck SBs out in almost all of its match ups, and when I'm SBing a card out in almost all of my match ups, it's time to reconsider what it's doing in the MD.
Goblins is an uphill battle aided via the coin flip, I've got close to the entire SB dedicated to it, and the best I could come up with was Chill to double Sphere of Resistance them and Pithing Needle to cut them off of their free mana on the draw, Goblin Lackey should never connect against this deck. Chill is also a solid SB card against TES, keeping them off of Right of Flame, Burning Wish and Empty the Warrens.
Sword of Fire and Ice is for match ups where Chalice of the Void is worthless and the deck needs to turn into aggro-control instead of aggro-prison to beat the opponent down, and Winter Orb is the best bullet I could come up with against control.
Aggro-control that dominates the aggro-control mirror and has an even stronger match up against combo can't be ignored as an option, and I think it has an even stronger match up against control because it's faster, more threat dense and has threats outside the range of Pernicious Deed.
It's surprising how stable this deck is, people look at the 8 blue mana sources and scoff at it, but with Fledgling Mawcor/Keeneye Aven and Miscalculation, there isn't a single MD blue card this deck has to hard cast.
All in all, an awesome idea for a deck.
@BreathWeapon: Cycling Miscalculation to draw a card is simply card parity. The main reason for having Thoughtcast in the deck is that it is card advantage; you get two cards in return for your one card. Some form of card advantage is a must in a deck with 8 cards(Chrome Mox and FoW) that are pure card disadvatage. Miscalculation seems like a decent card for this deck, but Thoughcast must stay.
Thoughtcast is bad, because it requires either Seat of the Synod or Chrome Mox and another blue card in order to be cast, disregarding Seat of the Synod, Thoughtcast + Chrome Mox + another blue card is a three card combo just so the deck can draw an extra card for U, and the reduced casting cost isn't that great, because this deck tends to have 3+ mana at it's disposal at all times.
Cycling is by no means card advantage, but it's a consistent draw effect that can be used with out a blue source, which are few and far between in this deck.
The deck doesn't "need" card advantage, a lot of times Chrome Mox is cast and not imprinted upon just for the Affinity and Plating count as well as to feed Ravager and flip Erayo. If I wanted a dedicated draw engine, I'd look into Fact or Fiction or Standstill.
I played the Original Europian Viersion for quite a while now, and I feel that the thoughtcast is the key in the deck. Cycleing as a draw effect is just weak. It is last resort kind of the thing. I don't mind cutting wasteland, but the thoughtcast must stay.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Thoughtcast is easy to underestimate, but it's an incredibly important and powerful card in Affinity. It's the way Affinity overcomes usual artifact removal, just drawing more cards and thus threats. If the problem is coloured mana to cast it, the solution is to add more coloured mana (Chromatic Star, for example) rather than removing the number of blue cards (we're talking about a deck with FoW after all). And yea, I understand that you aren't removing blue cards, but you're simply taking the deck's blue cards and replacing them with inferior blue cards with cycling. Rather not. Just add Stars there or something.
There's nothing strong about Somber Hoverguard, he's slow and his casting cost of U is unimportant in a deck that can support a higher casting cost creature as long as it's superior to Somber Hoverguard or more flexible. I've used all sorts of creatures in that slot, and it doesn't seem to matter what creature it is so long as it can equip Cranial Plating. Even Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, is a consideration in that slot, because this deck can cast almost it's entire hand in a single turn if it needs to and it baits counters very, very well.
The problem with Thoughtcast is that there is no more blue mana, there is no more filtering; adding a 1cc card conflicts with Chalice of the Void, and there is literally no room in your deck for it. Island is possible, but it would have to replace Darksteel Citadel, and that's just slowing the deck down.
I think Thoughtcast is a red herring in this deck, people used it in Standard and Extended and are attached to it, but the deck has Force of Will, Miscalculation and possibly Erayo, Soratami Ascendant for preventing those threats from occurring in the first place. What would you rather do? Draw 2 cards after a Pernicious Deed or prevent the Pernicious Deed altogether?
I SB out Thoughtcast against all match ups, that's how horrid it is. No one is arguing that Cycling as a draw effect is weak, but the card you are Cycling has other utility, and Cycling is better than having a dead card in hand when there is no blue mana to cast it.
I'm pretty sure that Thoughtcast out, Miscalculation in, is the right call, it clears up a lot of board space and gives the deck a tighter grip on the stack.
You are wrong.
However, I'll get in trouble if thats all I say, so for starters, thoughtcast does not get stopped by chalice @ 1, and it is excellent card advantage.
Somber Hoverguard is good because it is an evasive, cheap beater that you can mount plating on, and it's blue for FoW. Adding crappy replacements for these cards but keeping them blue does not make a good deck.
Crappy counterspells and crappy creatures are not better than undercosted creatures and undercosted draw. You also seem to have tunnel vision against pernicious deed: sure it's brutal against affinity, but this isn't extended, BG/whatever control is not a powerhouse in this format.
In short, this is pretty much the same as some of the suggestions you made to TES, you were absolutely convinced that they were better until you actually playtested them.
P.S. Siding out thoughtcast in every matchup = lolz
Hoverguard is about the only creature in the deck that can win the game by itself and does not die to artifact hate. It is a decent threat without equipment, unlike frog or fairy.
About thoughtcast, I had opposite experience. I cannot imagine the deck without it. It should never be sidboarded out of the deck because it is the only refuel you have, and miscalcualtion is never a good counter to begin with.To tell the truth, Miscaculation sucks ass. It is easy to get around it, and It sucks a lot earlier than Mana leak. If you want a counterspell, I'd rather run stifle, which I know that sucks in the deck. That's how much miscalculation sucks.
This decks is aggro, so trying to hold counters back while you can just dig for more threat is a very bad way to go. This deck is very proactive and needs more threats than answers. I'd rather win before they get to find the deed/Null Rod/Whatever and ruin me. FoW is only a backup plan, and should never be a main plan.
P.S. I think this deck deserves better opening post then this. I'm willing to write it if possible. Or can 264505 add more to the opening post?
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
I never said Thoughtcast is countered via Chalice of the Void at one, read the post; there isn't a single critical match up, game 2/3, where I want Thoughtcast over a SB bomb, I SB it out against Goblins, I SB it out against other aggro, I SB it out against TES , all of the match ups where this deck needs business and not U:Draw 2 cards on turn three plus, and I SB it out against all of the decks that bring in some form of hate for Mana Leak, so I can't see a reason for running it in the MD over Miscalculation.
Yes, I have tunnel vision against the one MD card that wrecks me, duh; and I fail to see how my extensive testing of TES has anything to do with Affinity.
Somber Hoverguard is weak, the CC does not matter, the 2 toughness is a problem against Pyroclasm, and it needs a U source in order to be cast, while Keeneye Aven can survive against Goblins, Pyroclasm and can Cycle with out a blue source. 3U is no problem in a deck with 8 2 mana lands, 4 Chrome Mox and 4 Cloud of Faeries, and even if it a problem, the card still Cycles.
The deck dumps its hand on turn two or turn three consistently, and you only keep your mana open if the opponent is threatening to blow you out of the game. The deck boards in Mana Leak in a lot of match ups, so it's the equivalent of pre-boarding more or less.
Personally, I've seen Erayo absolutely wreck people, it's been used in Extended Affinity before and it's the perfect fit here, you really don't need threats when your opponent can't cast his; It's horrible against Goblins, which is the reason I don't run it.
The problem isn't casting it, the problem is that you're paying 3U for a 2/3 flyer, when you could be paying U for a 3/2 flyer. That's black lotus mana difference, and it matters.
And don't think I'm randomly chastising with no testing, I've tested the europe build and this and in comparison this is a pile. Also: mawcor's ability is almost never relevant.
I like the idea of adding 4 citys to the mix. This opens up the option of running Talismans, which also opens up the option of Qumulox, as well as 2 TFK to compliment the thoughtcasts. Would probably be worse than the original, but might be worth trying.
Eldariel: although you were right, chromatic star is not a valid replacement in a monocolored deck that wants Chalice for one on turn one.
Edit: tested a bit, qumulox is still garbage. I did like some changes though, I did -wastes, +cities, -ravagers +2 talisman +2 TfK, I think it makes the deck much more consistant.
I like the single jitte in the md, too, I don't know why someone would want to take it out with all the gobblins around.
You tested the European build, the build with 4 Ancient Tomb and 3 Wasteland, and not this build, the build with 4 Ancient Tomb and 4 City of Traitors, right? I have more than enough mana to support 3U instead of U when it comes time to put the creature on the board, and if I don't it just gets Cycled, RFGed to Force of Will or Chrome Mox.
Blue mana aside, removal aside, of course U for a 3/2 Flyer is better than 3U for a 2/3 Flyer, but your judging it on the best case scenario, and against Goblins you just can't afford to do that; Seat of the Synod is getting Wasted and Ported and Seat of the Synod and Chrome Mox are being removal via Tin Street Hooligan or Goblin Tinkerer.
The deck is a lot different when it has 8 2 mana lands and isn't sacrificing its lands for the opponent's Rishadan Ports.
Edit: I wasn't big on the random Jitte as opposed to another 2 mana land, and Jitte is awful with Ornithoper, hence Sword of Fire and Ice in the SB.
Moved to Developmental. If you're confused about why, please read the Forum descriptions.
You really need to learn why this deck is going mono blue first. Chalice and Force is a desperate effort to make combo matchups better. The fact that force can deal with toublesome card does not hurt, either, but that is not its primary function. On the process of doing so, the deck loses its speed, and it needs evry piece of aggroness to make it up. running 2/3 that cycles is not the way to go. No Matter What.
You say SB bomb> Thoughtcast, but SB bomb Doesn't mean a jack if you don't draw it. Thoughtcast is about the only decent dig you have in the deck, and it is only card advantage spell in a deck full of card disadvantage. TFK is good, but probably too too slow to run as 4-of.
Erayo is bad in this deck. You cannot flip him unless you hold back for couple turns. I know you run 12 0-mana artifact, but if you hold it back until turn 2, you will likly to lose the game. I believe the original Europian list is better than any variant here so far, and I tried it in the deck, and I fliped him once in 10 matches.
Wasteland might not be a good idea in this deck, and city (or the new morphland) can be better. but it is extra piece of distruption the deck really need. It should be tested extensively first.
SoFI is interesting, and should be tested if we are trying cities.
EDIT: Goblins MU is bad. But if you start to play suboptimal cards to make it slightly better, the deck will start to lose to other decks. The way I look at it, the only absolutely bad matchup for the deck is goblins, and it is workable.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Some of that made sense and some of it didn't, if SB bombs are better than Thoughtcast, then whether or not I don't draw the SB bomb that replaced Thoughtcast or the Thoughtcast itself is irrelevant.
I understand digging and card advantage are a good thing, but so are digging with out blue mana and not losing the game to a resolved threat.
Chalice of the Void is all of the card advantage this deck needs, it shuts off half of the opponent's deck, as long as Force of Will gets it to resolve thru' a counter wall or Chrome Mox casts it before the opponent gets a turn, the virtual card advantage is more than worth the card disadvantage. The deck isn't even that full of card disadvantage, a lot of the time the Force of Will is either being imprinted on the Chrome Mox or the Chrome Mox is cast with out being imprinted just to add to Affinity, Plating or Ravager.
Wasteland was awful, it was good against TES and that was it, and now that I can Chalice of the Void for one consistently and I'm pre-boarded with Miscalculation I don't have a serious problem with the match up.
I'm sticking with Keeneye Aven, there's literally no difference between Somber Hoverguard and Keeneye Aven other than that their power and toughness are reversed and Keeneye Aven isn't dead with out a blue source. Even if Keeneye Aven wasn't good enough, I wouldn't go back to Somber Hoverguard over Serendib Efreet, because Serendib Efreet is bigger and he can be cast on the first or second turn when the deck does have the blue source.
Edit: Like I said, Erayo was terrible against Goblins.
The build I posted is more consistent than the European build and it has better match ups against combo and control because it has more than one hard counter.
Do you know hoe to sideboard? I've never heard of SBing that replaces digging spell. You want to take out weak cards that does not help in the matup. I know affinity tends to be tight, but taking out thoughtcast is like taking out brainstorm in blue control decks for some random hate.
Chalice of the Voids is only good aginst some decks. Aginst goblins, it shuts 8-12 cards, and that's it. they can totally cream you without it. Threshhold is one if the deck that totally dies to it, but that's about it. no other decks are 'shut doen by half' by chalice.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Does it involve removing the weakest cards in the MD for alternate cards in the SB to strengthen unfavorable match ups?
Thoughtcast is not Brainstorm, Thoughtcast is a draw engine that takes until the third turn to be cheap enough to cast, and it should be cast after the deck has cast all of its disruption and threats in order to put the opponent under pressure, it uses Thoughtcast to refill its hand, while Brainstorm is included in decks to reduce the land count, optimize starting hands and serve as a mid game mini-tutor when combined with a Fetchland.
This isn't control, this is aggro-control, AfFOWnity is a tempo based deck and as such it does not have the time to draw or tutor for its SB cards, it needs to have them in its starting hand in order for them to be effective.
I can understand the confusion, because it comes from not understanding the deck's assignment of its roles, it's prison first, aggro second, aggro control third and combo last. It's dependent on its starting hand in order to disrupt the opponent more than other aggro control decks, and thus it can't just use Thoughtcast as an over costed cantrip to search for prison pieces that are terrible after the first turn.
Chalice of the Void on one disrupt most of the decks in this format, Goblins aside, High Tide, Threshold, TES, non-Goblins based aggro, Suicide etc. are all affected via Chalice of the Void on one or on two (which is something the version with 4 City of Traitors can do).
This is not a prison deck. if you claim that this is a prison deck with mere 4 CotV, is MUC Prison? Chalice is mere distrupton. It locks them up, but that is just for a while. The fact that the deck packs ravager and company, instead of things like Trinisphere or Wire means something here. This deck is aggro control, that casts opponent off balance then finish them off while you can. It is not prison by any means since it lacks ability to lock your opponent out of the game with normal draw. How many Cotvs are you going to draw in a game, especially without thoughtcast? Are you going to mull every time for chalice? And Chalice for 2 is bad for you. How many of your spells does it shut down? Only matchup that it will be a good idea is thresh or fish, assuming you have chalice on 1 already.
You are correct at the role of thoughtcast, it refills your hand and gives you gas. However, brainstorm plays the same role, in little bit different way. Other aggro controls runs cantrips to get card quality. By selecting what cards to draw, it keeps you up with constant threat and make sure your draw is not dead. The same is true for thoughtcast. one is CQ spell, and one is CA spell, but they play the same role of adding consistancy to the deck. So taking out thoughtcast for SB card is bad for following reasons:
1. It lessens consistancy of the deck overall.
2. Makes you relient to SB bomb (Duress or FoW anyone?).
3. Less blue count(assuming that you are siding artifacts in.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote