[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

[Julian23]

The mirror is an additional reason I'd rather not want Ants. You'd have to get quite lucky to win a game with it considering that you will need to win 15+ clashes with it.

[guillemnicolau]

The mirror is an additional reason I'd rather not want Ants. You'd have to get quite lucky to win a game with it considering that you will need to win 15+ clashes with it.

You have to go for the emrakul or enter the infinite at least (finding emrakul shouldn't be a problem with eladamri's), and keep in mind that you have a surgical extraction to shuffle his deck in case that he has seen or modified the top.

[Julian23]

That's an incredible amount of things to go right. Also, Enter the Infinite is a thing of the past, but I get your general point.

Also, the second scenario you describe is one that seems to resolve double Cunning Wish (Ants+Surgical) at which point you're much better off just using Wipe Away on his Omniscience, then probably Wishing for FF into Flusterstorm and the third Wish.

[Poron]

what's the point in playing red and no Burning Wish for Overmaster and Show and Tell?
I would also play a singleton Enlightned Tutor in the SB

[Lemnear]

what's the point in playing red and no Burning Wish for Overmaster and Show and Tell?
I would also play a singleton Enlightned Tutor in the SB

Boseiju is a colorless Overmaster which also makes mana rather than costing one and I don't get Wish on Elightend Tutor or 2UW total if you can simply dig for Omni for UU. It's a lot like Personal Tutor for Ponder ;)

[Ogh!]

I used Trickbind a lot on Magic Online; it is the one change I have made to Shouta's GP list, removing Entreat the Ants for it. They are both pretty much the same card, allowing you to win with an annoying triggered ability on the stack. The only thing is that Entreat requires slightly more setup.
There's the corner case scenario of not being able to win without the attack step, but I think that's negligible.

I don't consider Trickbind and Release the Ants to be pretty much the same card. They basically have the same effect in your example, I agree. However, whereas Trickbind only disposes of nasty triggered effects, Release the Ants allows you to win when there's such an effect on the stack (as you clearly stated). Yet, that's a big difference, which you don't seem to evaluate correctly.

I'll give you a pretty hands-on example for a situation in which Release the Ants is clearly superior: I had the pleasure to watch your stream yesterday (thank you very much for streaming btw, I'm enjoying it whenever I can). Do you remember when you lost that game vs. Dredge when your opponent put Ashen Rider into play? You fetched FF, then Trickbind with the CW from FF but couldn't find Emrakul in time and lost. Had you fetched Release the Ants with your Cunning Wish from FF you could've used the Omniscience you found via Impulse as your clash card and won. This situation has occurred to me many times. I often win with Omniscience and sometimes even with FoW on top of my library (depends on the deck your opponent is playing, of course). I'm sure that cutting the ability to win with instant speed, that is Release the Ants, is a bad decision.

[Varal]

I don't consider Trickbind and Release the Ants to be pretty much the same card. They basically have the same effect in your example, I agree. However, whereas Trickbind only disposes of nasty triggered effects, Release the Ants allows you to win when there's such an effect on the stack (as you clearly stated). Yet, that's a big difference, which you don't seem to evaluate correctly.

I'll give you a pretty hands-on example for a situation in which Release the Ants is clearly superior: I had the pleasure to watch your stream yesterday (thank you very much for streaming btw, I'm enjoying it whenever I can). Do you remember when you lost that game vs. Dredge when your opponent put Ashen Rider into play? You fetched FF, then Trickbind with the CW from FF but couldn't find Emrakul in time and lost. Had you fetched Release the Ants with your Cunning Wish from FF you could've used the Omniscience you found via Impulse as your clash card and won. This situation has occurred to me many times. I often win with Omniscience and sometimes even with FoW on top of my library (depends on the deck your opponent is playing, of course). I'm sure that cutting the ability to win with instant speed, that is Release the Ants, is a bad decision.

Ashen Rider might be the most important reason to play Release the Ants, even if you counter the first trigger, the second on will trigger when you attack with your Emrakul that will soon be exiled. It's a good thing that it isn't played too much except maybe in Burn and Goblin sideboard.

The 3 big clash cards are Dig Through Time, Omniscience and Emrakul. I'm sure that Force of Will can somtimes do it but it must be pretty rare. This interesting observation made me make a list of decks playing high CMC.

Emrakul only loses against itself. It sees play in Omni-Tell, Sneak and Show, Shallow Grave Reanimator, 12 Post, Food Chain, Hypergenesis, Mono-Red Sneak Attack, some Enchantress, rarely in MUD and rarely as a sideboard singleton ( I found copies in Lands, MUD, Enchantress, Dragon Stompy, Painter).

Omniscience loses against itself, Emrakul, Blightsteel Colossus, Enter the Infinite, Kozilek, Progenitus, Ulamog, Worldspine Wurm.

-Omniscience sees play in Omni-Tell and some Sneak and Show.
-Blightsteel Colossus sees play in some MUD.
-Enter the Infinite in some OmniTell.
-Kozilek and Ulamog in 12 Post.
-Progenitus and Worlspine Wurm in some Elves/Natural Order sideboard.

Dig Through Time loses against itself, the previously mentioned cards and Ashen Rider, Blazing Archon, Craterhoof Behemoth, Griselbrand, Inkwell Leviathan, Iona, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Sundering Titan, Terastodon, Tidespout Tyrant, Tombstalker, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and a random rare played by your opponent in the 0-7 bracket.

-Dig Through Time is played in almost all blue decks except RUG Delver, Merfolk, Storm and Reanimator. Not all decks play the full suite, a lot of them like Miracle and Infect only plays one or two.
-Craterhoof Behemoth is played in Elves and other Natural Order decks.
-Griselbrand is played in Reanimator, Sneak and Show and some Dredge decks.
-Sundering Titan is a staple in MUD, Ugin also sees play but more on the fringe.
-Tombstalker sees rare play in BUG decks, usually not played with Dark Confidant.
-Blazing Archon, Inkwell Leviathan, Iona, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Terastodon, Tidespout Tyrant only sees play in Reanimator and Dread Return Dredge.
-Ashen Rider sees play in Reanimator and in the sideboard of decks such as Reanimator, Dredge, Sneak and Show, Burn, Goblin.

Force of Will loses against a ton of cards especially itself, Batterskull and Terminus. All blue decks except Storm have 3-4 Force of Will. If you know a deck, has used 2 or 3 copies of Force of Will or has fetched Batterskull then it might be worth trying if you've nothing better to do. Instead of looking at cards more expensive than 4, I'll look at decks not playing a lot.
-Storm only has 1 copy of Ad Nauseam, rogue build might have more.
-Burn has 4 Fireblast.
-Maverick style decks have 1 Batterskull.
-Death & Taxes has 1 Batterskull.
-Jund has nothing.
-Goblins might have Earwing Squad, Pyrokinesis MD and Ashen Rider SB.
-Affinity has 4 Thoughtcast.
-Lands have nothing except maybe a Worm Harvest MD or a singleton Emrakul SB.
-Non-Blue Nic Fit will usually have plenty of 5+ drop like Thragthusk, Acidic Slime, green or black Titan and random creatures you've never heard of. Blue Fit might also have Force of Will.
-Dredge has Golgari Grave-Troll, Dread Return targets and sometimes more.
-Painter has nothing except a possible singleton Emrakul in SB.
-Goblin Charbelcher has nothing unless they play Street Wraith in addition to Gitaxian Probe.
-Budget decks without Force of Will can sometimes have nothing above 4 but it's hard to know.
-Red Stompy usually have a curve topping at 4.

Intuition, Cunning Wish and Show Tell will never let you win except a single archetype.
-RG Lands usually have nothing maindeck. Rogue build might have a singleton Crucible of Worlds, Smokestack or Worm Harvest. Blue versions have Intuition, Black versions have Liliana of the Veil and Nether Traitor. After sideboard they have Krosan Grip, Slaughter Games, etc.

Impulse or 1 CMC won't make you win unless your opponent has a really low life total, a really small library or a really weird deck.

Lands won't make you win unless your opponent has an empty library.


As a recap, Emrakul is good against every decks not playing it except decks playing it. It might still work in a pinch because most only play one or two copies except Sneak and Show, some Omni-Tell, Mono-Red Sneak Attack and Hypergenesis.

Omniscience is good except against Omni-Tell, Sneak Attack, Red Sneak Attack, Hypergenesis, 12 Post (3 copies). In a pinch might still work against Shallow Grave Reanimator, Enchantress, Food Chain,singleton sideboard Emrakul, singleton Blightsteel Colossus in MUD and Progenitus/Worlspine Wurm in Elves/Natural Order.

Dig Through Time is good except against Sneak and Show, Omni-Tell, Mono-Red Sneak-Attack, Hypergenesis, 12 Post (3 copies), Reanimator, Elves (2/3 copies), MUD (2-5 copies), Dredge (0-3 copies, highly dependant on graveyeard), 4 Ashen Rider sideboard. In a pinch might work against Dig Thought Time decks (1-3 copies, rarely 4), Enchantress (1 copy), Food Chain (1-3 copies).


To estimate the odds of winning with Release the Ants you also need to take into consideratoion what they might have sideboarded in or out, the cards played already, cards in opponent hand, number of cards remaing in library. You also must evaluate if your odds of winning will improve by waiting one more turn instead of going for an uncertain RtA kill. Always take into consideration unknown or fringe techs that might block your kill. If there's a win with Emrakul attacks, go for it instead of risking you opponent flipping Draco.

If you've additional information against decks on the fringe that might be played but not necessarily made a lot of top 8, you'd be welcome. I hope this will be helpful in the 1% of game where all this matters.

[laserstone]

When is it correct to side in the Young Pyros in the UR build? What decks is pyro good against?

[KobeBryan]

When is it correct to side in the Young Pyros in the UR build? What decks is pyro good against?

miracles, mirror.

[Varal]

When is it correct to side in the Young Pyros in the UR build? What decks is pyro good against?

You need two things for the Pyromancer plan to be good:
-It must be hard to deploy your combo or your combo isn't great in the matchup.
-After sideboard, there won't be an opposing fast clock or removal/blockers to nullify Young Pyromancer.

It's good against OmniTell, Miracle decks without Meddling Mage, Stoneforge Mystic or Monastery Mentor packages, fringe decks like Pox or Landstill. It doesn't seem that great against Sneak and Show or Hive Mind.

[Karhumies]

You need two things for the Pyromancer plan to be good:
-It must be hard to deploy your combo or your combo isn't great in the matchup.
-After sideboard, there won't be an opposing fast clock or removal/blockers to nullify Young Pyromancer.

Against control decks who focus on disrupting your combo via counters and/or discard without a significant board presence of their own it is a simple decision to bring them in to become your clock. Example deck: Pox

Against aggro and aggro-combo decks who focus on their own board swarm without a lot of meaningful interaction with you (other than occasionally hiding something from them with Brainstorm), it is a simple decision to not side them in. Example decks: Death & Taxes, Jund

Against fast glass cannon combo decks, it is a simple decision not to side them in. Too slow to be relevant. Example decks: Oops All Spells, Dredge, Belcher.

Against tempo strategies, it is tricky. Do you side the pyros in to provide chumpers until you have enough mana sources to play through their tax counters (or draw Boseiju, given that the opponent does not have Wasteland)? Example: Delver variants

Against slow and resilient combo decks, it is tricky. Do you bring in Pyro to be your clock while disrupting the opponent's combo for the win? Or do you rather try to punch through your own combo, forgetting about the Pyro plan? Example decks: ANT, TES

[kuroko16]

hi guys. as i said i have a 100 player tournament in Italy.

i have decided to play mono u version. Last time about 2 month ago i finished 6-2 with a classic list but this time i decide to change something.

i expect a lot of discard spell and wasteland so i decide to bring this list. I'm not sure about that.

what do you think?



2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn ( or 1 emrakul and 1 Enter the infinite )

8 Island
2 City of Traitors
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn


4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Impulse
4 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Flusterstorm
4 Show and Tell


SIDEBOARD
1 Wipe Away
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Release the Ants
1 Mindbreak Trap ( not sure)
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Rapid Hybridization (not sure)
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

maybe add 1 land in main is better. I did not have much time this deck. last month i play only the UR Shoota version

any advice?

[Cave]

i expect a lot of discard spell and wasteland so i decide to bring this list. I'm not sure about that.

You know very well that mana denial and discard spells are this deck's worst enemies.
You might consider bringing another deck for the tournament, especially now that everybody has acknowledged that 0/1-EtI-Omnitell is actually a good deck.
Everybody will be prepared for it. Insomma, sai come funziona in Italia :laugh:

However, if you keep resolute in bringing the deck, I would say you should bring either monoU version or UB version (cuz wasteland+discard also calls hatebears).

Ur version is really good against mirror, miracles.
MonoU version is solid against wasteland & in general.
UB version is the best against hatebears & packs discard itself & can 100% finish the game instant-speed out of a cunning wish.

[Karhumies]

i expect a lot of discard spell
...
maybe add 1 land in main is better.

any advice?

19 lands main has been good for me.

Against targeted discard spells, you have SB options: Divert, Misdirection, Leyline of Sanctity.

Also, Flusterstorm > Mindbreak trap, especially because you can run 1-2 Flusterstorm in the main deck instead of Spell Pierce to save SB slots.

[Ogh!]

You know very well that mana denial and discard spells are this deck's worst enemies.

Actually, I consider all OmniTell versions that run at least 5 Islands and 7 fetch lands (i.e. almost all well-placing lists) to be pretty much mana denial-proof (in relation to most other decks in the format). Discard is another animal, though.


UB version is the best against hatebears & packs discard itself & can 100% finish the game instant-speed out of a cunning wish.

Many MonoU versions also tend to run Twincast instead of e.g. Impulse as a FF target which also allows you to "100% finish" the game with instant-speed (easy to see how, no explanation needed, I think). So that's not a USP of the UB lists.

[emidln]

Many MonoU versions also tend to run Twincast instead of e.g. Impulse as a FF target which also allows you to "100% finish" the game with instant-speed (easy to see how, no explanation needed, I think). So that's not a USP of the UB lists.

Split Decision seems better than Twincast if you're doing that.

[Ogh!]

Split Decision seems better than Twincast if you're doing that.

True. That card is superior. However small that bit of superiority may be.

[Cave]

Actually, I consider all OmniTell versions that run at least 5 Islands and 7 fetch lands (i.e. almost all well-placing lists) to be pretty much mana denial-proof (in relation to most other decks in the format). Discard is another animal, though.

And that's exactly what I wrote down immediately after the part you're quoting. You wanna be manadenial proof? Run monoU.
I run UB, and I assure that DnT will try the manadenial plan on you and it can be kinda constraining until you hit massacre or pithing needle.


Many MonoU versions also tend to run Twincast instead of e.g. Impulse as a FF target which also allows you to "100% finish" the game with instant-speed (easy to see how, no explanation needed, I think). So that's not a USP of the UB lists.

I don't see it as a really popular ("many") choice: maybe i need to watch more recent TOP8's but as far as I can remember, I saw that card maybe once. If I was to run monoU, i'd go for impulse myself. It's just a better card in that slot.

[Ogh!]

If I was to run monoU, i'd go for impulse myself. It's just a better card in that slot.

Would you mind elaborating on the process that led you to this conclusion?

[Cave]

Would you mind elaborating on the process that led you to this conclusion?


Alright hum.

a. It appears to me (but maybe it's just me) that this deck aims to resolve Show and Tell for Omniscience.
b. It also seems that, most of the time, when you drop the combo, you somehow win the game (from my experience in 2 months of playtest + 2 tournaments, I failed in 2 cases).
c. Point b happens because you can chain cantrips and tutors until you find a suitable way to finish AND
d. There are also very few ways to stop us from the point omniscience hits the ground. 90% of our losses come from us not being able to drop omniscience. Most importantly:
e. While it's not guaranteed that we win if we are able to SnT->Omniscience, it's guaranteed that we lose if we can't do it.

Therefore i conclude that

f. Being able to set up our combo one turn faster is better than being able to solve post-combo niche problems.
g. A card that is really useful pre combo and decent post combo is better than a card which is nigh-useless pre combo and decent to solve one (EtB triggers) very niche post combo issue.

Finally, even if they drop, say, oblivion ring with our SnT, you can always Wish-> FF -> BS+Impulse+Wish, cast impulse+BS and try to get a high cc on top, or another C.Wish.
On the contrary, you topdecking Twincast/Split Decisions while trying to set up for the combo can really, really slow you down. Impulse is much better.
Therefore i conclude Impulse is better than Twincast.

When playing UB, you can run Lim-Dûl's Vault, which not only helps you winning in response to nasty triggers, but also can set you up t2 for a nice t3 win.
I hope it helps.

[Ogh!]

a. It appears to me (but maybe it's just me) that this deck aims to resolve Show and Tell for Omniscience.
Thorough analysis and testing has led me to the same conclusion.



b. It also seems that, most of the time, when you drop the combo, you somehow win the game (from my experience in 2 months of playtest + 2 tournaments, I failed in 2 cases).
I found that casting Show and Tell and putting Omniscience into play gives me a higher win-percentage than dropping either Show and Tell or Omniscience or both cards. In the latter case, I usually get a warning and have to pick up the cards again; however, I admit that some opponents may concede when they see that you have the combo in your hand.



c. Point b happens because you can chain cantrips and tutors until you find a suitable way to finish AND
d. There are also very few ways to stop us from the point omniscience hits the ground. 90% of our losses come from us not being able to drop omniscience. Most importantly:
e. While it's not guaranteed that we win if we are able to SnT->Omniscience, it's guaranteed that we lose if we can't do it.
Brilliant!



f. Being able to set up our combo one turn faster is better than being able to solve post-combo niche problems.
I absolutely agree!



g. A card that is really useful pre combo and decent post combo is better than a card which is nigh-useless pre combo and decent to solve one (EtB triggers) very niche post combo issue.
Yes, yes!

The real question is: How useless is Twincast/Split Decision pre-Omniscience since it's usually better than Impulse after having resolved Omniscience (apart from the situation when you have only one - relevant - card in your hand after having resolved Omniscience. In that case Impulse is usually better)? Unfortunately, you haven't touched on that issue. I would like to point your attention to the fact that the rules allow you to copy your cantrips, your opponent's cantrips, counterspells, Hymn to Tourach, a lethal Banefire and other spells that may have a beneficial effect on the probability that you resolve Show and Tell (before your opponent kills you).

[Cave]

The real question is: How useless is Twincast/Split Decision pre-Omniscience since it's usually better than Impulse after having resolved Omniscience (apart from the situation when you have only one - relevant - card in your hand after having resolved Omniscience. In that case Impulse is usually better)? Unfortunately, you haven't touched on that issue.

Speaking of issues we haven't touched, I would like to point out that my sentence "Twincast is better than impulse post-combo" is in fact a bit inaccurate. Twincast is better post-combo if you Wish-> FF for it.

a. If you SnT->Omni and you remain with impulse in hand, you can usually win from there.
b. On the contrary, if your only card is Twincast, your life sucks


I would like to point your attention to the fact that the rules allow you to copy your cantrips, your opponent's cantrips, counterspells, Hymn to Tourach, a lethal Banefire and other spells that may have a beneficial effect on the probability that you resolve Show and Tell (before your opponent kills you).

1. Copying your cantrips turns your twincast into a cc2 cantrip, semi-sorcery speed and dependant on you actually having a cantrip to copy.

2. Copying your opponent cantrips. It totally sounds like a gameplan! Game 1, round 7 of swiss rounds, you get a hand with twincast: let's keep it and pray they aren't playing Death and Taxes, Goblin, Elves, 12 post, Affinity (edit: affinity has thoughtcast, lol :laugh:), Stompy, Dredge, Maverick, Jund, Junk or Mud so the card isn't totally useless!

3. Copying counterspells precombo: this scenario involves you casting a relevant spell (so it's probably a CC3, if you know what I mean :laugh:), them trying to counterspell, and you still having two more blue mana to Twincast. While it's not so unlikely to happen, it is really not what you get every game.
If you can cast relevant spell+twincast, it means that you can cast relevant spell+pay spell pierce, which already makes twincast useless 40% of the time.
Also, Twincasting a Flusterstorm will make you a sad panda.
So at best (when they FoW) you have a counterspell in hand, which is better than having impulse, but still far from optimal.

4. Copying Tourach: That's pretty decent, depending on the situation. You turn a 1x2 into a 3x3 which might be good or not.
Consider that it achieves nothing if they have some pressure on the board (and they usually do): the gamestate is enough for them to win in 2-3 turns and losing an extra card (3 instead of 2) is not helping you to solve that gamestate. If you have impulse, you hope for it not to be discarded and start diggin again.

5. Lethal Banefire: What?:laugh:

While I appreciate Twincast's versatility, Impulse is better in the maindeck. All scenarios you can imagine involving you using Twincast pre-combo are luck-dependant and situation-dependant. Impulse does only one thing, but it does it better and with more consistency + the whole story about being able to set up the combo is better than being useful post combo.

Edit: P.S. One really good reason to play this deck is that it's fluid and elegant. I've been playing it since February, way before this whole Omnimania started.
Back then, everybody thought Sneak and Show to be stronger, but I refused to play a deck with 16 combo cards: too much variance, too many horrible first hands with 2-3 uncastable big fat guys.
So basically with Omnitell, you have 8 combo cards, only 2 finishers, and the rest is land, protection and dig spells: that's what makes the deck consistant. You dont want a 3rd card to shuffle away with brainstorm+fetch, and twincast to me is exactly THAT card since it achieves nothing on its own, much like Emrakul/EtI.

[Julian23]

Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #OmniTell! Join us over at http://twitch.tv/itsJulian and watch me punt into Dig Through Time :cool:

[famdoola]

Speaking of issues we haven't touched, I would like to point out that my sentence "Twincast is better than impulse post-combo" is in fact a bit inaccurate. Twincast is better post-combo if you Wish-> FF for it.

a. If you SnT->Omni and you remain with impulse in hand, you can usually win from there.
b. On the contrary, if your only card is Twincast, your life sucks



1. Copying your cantrips turns your twincast into a cc2 cantrip, semi-sorcery speed and dependant on you actually having a cantrip to copy.

2. Copying your opponent cantrips. It totally sounds like a gameplan! Game 1, round 7 of swiss rounds, you get a hand with twincast: let's keep it and pray they aren't playing Death and Taxes, Goblin, Elves, 12 post, Affinity (edit: affinity has thoughtcast, lol :laugh:), Stompy, Dredge, Maverick, Jund, Junk or Mud so the card isn't totally useless!

3. Copying counterspells precombo: this scenario involves you casting a relevant spell (so it's probably a CC3, if you know what I mean :laugh:), them trying to counterspell, and you still having two more blue mana to Twincast. While it's not so unlikely to happen, it is really not what you get every game.
If you can cast relevant spell+twincast, it means that you can cast relevant spell+pay spell pierce, which already makes twincast useless 40% of the time.
Also, Twincasting a Flusterstorm will make you a sad panda.
So at best (when they FoW) you have a counterspell in hand, which is better than having impulse, but still far from optimal.

4. Copying Tourach: That's pretty decent, depending on the situation. You turn a 1x2 into a 3x3 which might be good or not.
Consider that it achieves nothing if they have some pressure on the board (and they usually do): the gamestate is enough for them to win in 2-3 turns and losing an extra card (3 instead of 2) is not helping you to solve that gamestate. If you have impulse, you hope for it not to be discarded and start diggin again.

5. Lethal Banefire: What?:laugh:

While I appreciate Twincast's versatility, Impulse is better in the maindeck. All scenarios you can imagine involving you using Twincast pre-combo are luck-dependant and situation-dependant. Impulse does only one thing, but it does it better and with more consistency + the whole story about being able to set up the combo is better than being useful post combo.

Edit: P.S. One really good reason to play this deck is that it's fluid and elegant. I've been playing it since February, way before this whole Omnimania started.
Back then, everybody thought Sneak and Show to be stronger, but I refused to play a deck with 16 combo cards: too much variance, too many horrible first hands with 2-3 uncastable big fat guys.
So basically with Omnitell, you have 8 combo cards, only 2 finishers, and the rest is land, protection and dig spells: that's what makes the deck consistant. You dont want a 3rd card to shuffle away with brainstorm+fetch, and twincast to me is exactly THAT card since it achieves nothing on its own, much like Emrakul/EtI.



Yeah but you can also twincast a Lightning Bolt and Kill a Delver/Eidolon/Haters or your own DTT which then = UUUU look at top 14 cards and put 4 in your hand, and its generally at its weakest as an 8th counterspell - so to me it's worthy of the slot over impulse.

In my experience the 2 CMC slot goes Lim-Dul's Vault > Twincast > Impulse.

[Julian23]

I just finished uploading the Daily Event I played yesterday. You can check it out on YouTube Legacy Daily Event #7: OmniTell (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhAJZyLBTDL4E2vpt1iHZxCLDP7CESYdQ)

[Lans89]

I finished 3th (4-0-1) yesterday evening in a 60 man Legacy event @ GP Utrecht. Lost some durdle game 1's lol, so it was quite exiting sometimes! Also had the chance to play the looooong weird mirror, 2-0 three minutes before the end of the round :P! This is my list:

Maindeck
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Omniscience

1 Impulse
3 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm

4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 City of Traitors
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Defense Grid
1 Through the Breach
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Trickbind
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sudden Shock
1 Wipe Away
1 Rushing River
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Surgical Extraction

I love to show a volcanic to some decks, and let them keep some removal for Pyromancers I don't play. Nice fotm! Sudden Shock was awesome all the time, split second ftw. I'm not sure about the Defense Grid side, but it's still good vs RUG, UR and Patriot. I do miss Noxious Revival, so might go back to that. I should probably cut 1 City of Traitors with this mana base, but still prefer it this way personally. If someone is wondering why I play 3 flusterstorms.. it's just amazing in most situations and helps vs faster combo decks ;)! Only miss Pierce vs CB, but with this build you have other things to deal with that.

[ryscott85]

Hi everyone! I'm just wondering if anyone has tested out using burning wish with a show and tell in the side (a la florin koch) as opposed to cunning wish. We already play red mana and you can get burning wish out a turn earlier. Thoughts?

[KobeBryan]

Hi everyone! I'm just wondering if anyone has tested out using burning wish with a show and tell in the side (a la florin koch) as opposed to cunning wish. We already play red mana and you can get burning wish out a turn earlier. Thoughts?


Yes burning wish build is out there somewhere.

[ryscott85]

Let me clarify the question. What is the advantage of using cunning wish over burning wish in the new(er) dig through time builds? It's my understanding that the concensus was to use the mono blue version over the u/r, u/b, u/b/r versions as it helped make the deck, "wasteland proof"(despite its sol lands) however; the "mono blue" version now plays Volcanic Islands anyway.

[JosephK]

Because Cunning wish is an instant. Post omniscience, you want to be able to counter reb/disenchant/trigger effects. With CWish you can go cantrip, then cunning wish to counter reb. With BWish you just go Burning wish, they reb omniscience you're screwed :).

Pre-Omniscience, it also synergies better with Dig (EOT into Big Turn).

EDIT : Also, Burning wish is worst vs Wasteland.

[Rekk]

Does trickbind really merit a spot in the sideboard?

When you have access to trickbind you also have access to an attempted instant speed kill via firemind's
cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm,

if you find a copy of cunning wish or emrakul off impulse you can win.

[Rekk]

Let me clarify the question. What is the advantage of using cunning wish over burning wish in the new(er) dig through time builds? It's my understanding that the concensus was to use the mono blue version over the u/r, u/b, u/b/r versions as it helped make the deck, "wasteland proof"(despite its sol lands) however; the "mono blue" version now plays Volcanic Islands anyway.

5 mana for show is pretty slow, and the turn set up of burning wish pass show feels so bad. They have so much time to prepare. Although you did get to do overmaster into show. ultimately it wasn't impressive, the lotus petals felt needed for the red the openers became really clunky.

[Adan]

Does trickbind really merit a spot in the sideboard?

When you have access to trickbind you also have access to an attempted instant speed kill via firemind's
cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm,

if you find a copy of cunning wish or emrakul off impulse you can win.

Yes, and when you don't and lose your win-and-in, you will tilt and think "had I only added Trickbind into my 75!"

It's a statistical issue, it will happen that Impulse/Brainstorm will crap out on you. When I go off, I want to win 100% against anything. I was grinding sideevents in Utrecht all day every day and one of my opponents (Junk Blade) boarded in Oblivion Rings. I wanted to Release the Ants him in response to the trigger, but noticed that he was gazing at my graveyard quite often, implying he had Surgical Extraction which can potentially mess up the Clash of Release the Ants, so I just went for Trickbind instead.


Let me clarify the question. What is the advantage of using cunning wish over burning wish in the new(er) dig through time builds? It's my understanding that the concensus was to use the mono blue version over the u/r, u/b, u/b/r versions as it helped make the deck, "wasteland proof"(despite its sol lands) however; the "mono blue" version now plays Volcanic Islands anyway.

By the end of the day it all boils down to being able to interact at instant-speed. The Burning-Wish-based builds that you describe act at sorcery-speed, making themselves vulnerable to any CiP trigger along the lines of Oblivion Ring, Clique, Venser, Ashen Rider, the list goes on and you have no way to interact with that other than BWish for Thoughtseize.

With such a build, you will most likely lose to any conventional OmniShow stock-list because when they fire off Show and Tell, you can't do anything during their turn whereas on your own turn, they can still Cunning Wish for counters, Wipe Away for your Omniscience or - in fringe cases - kill you in response to anything (assuming a sufficient amount of hits by RtA or that funny False Cure/Beacon of Immortality SB tech, but since I was talking about stock lists we'll leave that one away).

Furthermore Burning Wish is a resourceful card as is Cunning Wish, but compared to each other, Burning Wish can't access the probably most unfair card that makes OmniShow so good at the moment: Dig Through Time. I tend to side out one copy of Dig Through Time in matchups that I expect to be grindy, to squeeze even more value out of Cunning Wish, especially since postboard games usually go at a slower pace.

This has always been an issue, Burning Wish was never able to get you a proper cardadvantage spell to get back into the game after getting Duress'd and double Cabal Therapy'd.

The current lists are - to my feeling - the best ones to play grindy games and offer you the safest kills.

[Jandrosaurus]

Does trickbind really merit a spot in the sideboard?

When you have access to trickbind you also have access to an attempted instant speed kill via firemind's
cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm,

if you find a copy of cunning wish or emrakul off impulse you can win.

I was able to trickbind a Flickerwisp's ETB trigger after resolving a Show and Tell -> Omni vs D&T in GP Vegas. Felt real good and won me the match. It's so good.

[Ogh!]

Yes, and when you don't and lose your win-and-in, you will tilt and think "had I only added Trickbind into my 75!"

It's a statistical issue, it will happen that Impulse/Brainstorm will crap out on you. When I go off, I want to win 100% against anything. I was grinding sideevents in Utrecht all day every day and one of my opponents (Junk Blade) boarded in Oblivion Rings. I wanted to Release the Ants him in response to the trigger, but noticed that he was gazing at my graveyard quite often, implying he had Surgical Extraction which can potentially mess up the Clash of Release the Ants, so I just went for Trickbind instead.

You could've gone for RtA, no need to worry.

"If you win the clash, the spell moves from the stack to your hand as part of its resolution. It never hits the graveyard. If you don't win the clash, the spell is put into the graveyard from the stack as normal." Source: Gatherer RtA

Edit: Ah, I understand. You're right. The shuffle effect may cause problems.

[Adan]

I was able to trickbind a Flickerwisp's ETB trigger after resolving a Show and Tell -> Omni vs D&T in GP Vegas. Felt real good and won me the match. It's so good.

I don't think it makes much of a difference whether you trickbind Flickerwisp or just machine-gun him to death with RtA in response to the trigger. It does make a huge difference when there's a Thalia on board, though, this is certainly the situation where I want Trickbind in my 75.


You could've gone for RtA, no need to worry.

"If you win the clash, the spell moves from the stack to your hand as part of its resolution. It never hits the graveyard. If you don't win the clash, the spell is put into the graveyard from the stack as normal." Source: Gatherer RtA

Edit: Ah, I understand. You're right. The shuffle effect may cause problems.

Precisely.

[Jandrosaurus]

I don't think it makes much of a difference whether you trickbind Flickerwisp or just machine-gun him to death with RtA in response to the trigger. It does make a huge difference when there's a Thalia on board, though, this is certainly the situation where I want Trickbind in my 75.


I am running the older Enter the Infinite build, so countering the ETB was necessary at the time in order to resolve EtT. Because of this limitation, I'm going to be changing to a more streamlined list that ditches EtT and relies on Emrakul as the primary wincon and Ants as a secondary wincon (using Impulse/Brainstorm/Firemind's to manipulate the top of the deck for Ants).

[Julian23]

Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #OmniTell! Join us over at http://twitch.tv/itsJulian :cool:

[KobeBryan]

I see people running a REB and 1 blast.

Why not just use two blast. Blast can target and cast even if it doesn't work at the end. This can help fuel pyros.

I have never dealt with anyone naming REB/blast with meddling mage and cabal therapy unless they peaked at your hand and that is the only card they need to deal with.

[Julian23]

People peeking at your and casting Cabal Therapy happens pretty much all the time; especially now where the combination of those two cards is more common than anytime ever before.

However, I also agree that double Pyroblast might be the right call.

[Karhumies]

Went 3-1 in local FNM Legacy with the Ur build.

R1: vs D&T, win 2-1. Lost G1 to T2 Thalia followed up with Mystic + SoFI clock, getting Omni with no Thalia mana into the table was too slow. G2 he had randomly kept in some swords which hit my boarded in pyromancer, but I managed to kill his Thalias and go for it. G3 opponent had very bad draws. He did not see any sideboard cards in the whole match.
R2: vs Miracles, lose 0-2. I had never played against Miracles before with any deck. I was unfamiliar with what they are running in MD and played right into Pyroblast G1 and also I made some really terrible plays. G2 we did not have a lot of time, so I had to gamble everything in the extra turns and failed miserably by being Clique-locked out of my combo.
R3: vs Reanimator, win 2-1. I probed him a lot, and he thoughtseized me a lot. I was much better at Brainstorming in response to setup combo and leave blue cards for FoW than he was. G2 loss was due to turn 2 Iona on blue from the play (T2 Careful Study -> I let it resolve because it's not Entomb but he nevertheless blindly hits Iona, Lotus Petal, Reanimate, I Spell Pierce, he plays second Lotus Petal, second Reanimate).
R4: vs Storm, win 2-0. Both wins with turn 3 SnT->Emrakul. G2 opponent had mulled to 5.

Play of the day:
Reanimator MU, game 3, turn 3(?) (opponent on draw)

Opponent Thoughtseizes me. I have 1 mana available. I know he has Griselbrand + Exhume + Reanimate in hand, but no discard outlet due to Probing him earlier so Thoughtseize is his topdeck.

In my hand:
Show and Tell
Omniscience (Pondered into hand but ran out of mana to cast SnT)
Gitaxian Probe
Brainstorm
C.Wish

I respond Brainstorm -> draw Island, Spell Pierce, Dig Through Time. Setup top of library: Omni + SnT. I let Seize resolve, opponent takes out Dig (I had enough Delve to resolve it). My turn. Draw SnT. Island. Probe with life to see the Griselbrand + Exhume + Reanimate. Draw Omni. Cast SnT, opponent has no choice but to let it resolve. I put Omni, he puts Griselbrand. I attempt to C.Wish (I have only 1 card in hand), opponent responds with Draw 7 and goes to 9 life. Opponent attempts to FoW and goes to 8 life. I cast my last card which is Spell Pierce (opponent has only 1 mana open). Opponent responds with draw 7. I notify him that he is now at 1 life. He has a FoW but can not do it. C.Wish resolves. I take Sudden Shock and win with it thanks to my opponent dealing 19 to himself (2 fetchlands + Seize + FoW + double Griselbrand activation).

[Windmill]

Hey guys, why is everyone suddenly splashing red for Young Pyromancer of all things?

[Poron]

because Meddling Mage on SNT is pretty much devastating without REBs and YP

[spirit of the wretch]

Because honestly I think I win more post-board games off the pyromage than the Combo. He is really that good.

[kuroko16]

Because honestly I think I win more post-board games off the pyromage than the Combo. He is really that good.

exactly

Youg is amazing against mirror and miracles.

and with red splash we have L. Bolt Reb Pyroblast and hrough the breach to reset the board.




i honestly love Red splash but last tournament 2 wasteland against my vulcanic cost me Top 8 :( i prefer they wasteland my boseju that volcanis island :laugh:

[Varal]

Red Splash is good but the Volcanic Island are almost unplayable against Lands, RUG Delver and Death & Taxes.

[Julian23]

Am I the only one who's always felt like the Storm matchup was kinda shaky?

[Sloshthedark]

Am I the only one who's always felt like the Storm matchup was kinda shaky?

It should be imo, I consider Storm slightly favoured due to speed, discard being better interaction vs. combo than counters and no meaningful SB on Omnitell side, once it gets to lategame Dig pulls it's weight and makes things more complicated

[KobeBryan]

exactly

Youg is amazing against mirror and miracles.

and with red splash we have L. Bolt Reb Pyroblast and hrough the breach to reset the board.




i honestly love Red splash but last tournament 2 wasteland against my vulcanic cost me Top 8 :( i prefer they wasteland my boseju that volcanis island :laugh:

You just can't fetch as you please. Against mirror and miracles yes you can and that's when you want you want red the most

In decks with wasteland. You really need islands only. Except in a counter war with rug that's when you fetch it. In that occasion you only need 1 red on that comboing turn

[Cave]

When playing UB, I recommend packing one swamp in order to be sure to be able to cast massacre against Death and Taxes.
Other than that, splashing this deck has the sole purpose of solving bad matchups. If your splash is not helping you in the matchup, then it's not worth doing.
You don't solve canadian with reb effetcs (well, they help); if you are worried about canadian wastelands, you just overload them with low-cost threats (pyromancer/grid) in G2 and it's pretty much about it.

[MGB]

Question: is this deck almost always a better choice than Sneak'n'Show? Are there any reasons to play Sneak'n'Show over Omnitell at this point or not?

[Cave]

Question: is this deck almost always a better choice than Sneak'n'Show? Are there any reasons to play Sneak'n'Show over Omnitell at this point or not?


Sneak and Show is faster // Omnitell is slower
Sneak and Show has bigger variance // Omnitell's average hand is more consistant
Sneak and Show has 2 different angles of attack // Playing Omnitell makes you weaker to single-target hate (meddling/surgical/discard) and forces you to find other ways to win G2
Sneak and Show suffers mana denial more // Omnitell is more stable mana-wise
Sneak and Show is more immediate// Omnitell is more versatile (instant-speed win) & you are 99% winning when you drop Omniscience


Colors restored! -zilla

[Windmill]

The lists I'm seeing seem very weak to UB decks. Is that just the sacrifice everyone in the US is making with these U/R Omnitell versions to improve the Omnitell/Miracles match-up?

Here is a question: If you wanted to instead cater your sideboard to be stronger to UB decks and discard, what would you replace your red splashes with?

[Ogh!]

The lists I'm seeing seem very weak to UB decks. Is that just the sacrifice everyone in the US is making with these U/R Omnitell versions to improve the Omnitell/Miracles match-up?

Here is a question: If you wanted to instead cater your sideboard to be stronger to UB decks and discard, what would you replace your red splashes with?

As we all know, UB disrupts our play by using counterspells and discard. While hatebears may be part of their strategy, e.g. in Lejay's Shardless lists, I have rarely encountered these BUGw lists and am confident in neglecting them for the sake of the argument. We know how to deal with counterspells: counter their counterspells or play more Show and Tells or Dig Through Time(s) to exhaust their counter resources until we're ready to go off. Discard is usually beaten by either being able to hide key spells with Brainstorm or use card advantage engines to recover from discard (in addition to occasionally Spell Pierce that T1 Thoughtseize on the play). We only run one CA engine, that is DTT. This one's however brutally good in our deck so that it made discard much more bearable than it had been at the deck's inception (Lejay's list in the primer included one Leyline of Sanctity MD to have a better MU vs. discard, which is deemed not necessary anymore due to DTT's ability to let you recover).

If you wanted to increase your probability to win vs. discard decks I would try to think of cards that provide either CA or let you hide key spells on top of your library. You might think about including cards like Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library, Ancestral Visions, Jace the Mindsculptor, Jace Beleren, Cold-Eyed Selkie, Library of Leng etc.

I haven't tested any of these cards, I'm just using the POOMA-database.

[GoblinZ]

How do you guys beat MUD？

[Dziga Murnau]

How do you guys beat MUD？

I prefer to drop Emrakul. They are so happy to hold Trinisphere in hand waiting for Omni that there's no better choise than SnT->Emri. It is really better than discarding Trini and going off then.

[Adan]

Am I the only one who's always felt like the Storm matchup was kinda shaky?

I don't. So far I am undefeated against Storm (ANT/TES). However, I splash black for Thoughtseizes and that card is obviously banging in that matchup.


How do you guys beat MUD？

SnT --> Emrakul or SnT --> Omni --> Emrakul in the best case. The former line pretty much wins, the latter can cost you a turn if they drop a Trinisphere to it. This is something to consider when there's a Lodestone Golem bashing your face in. However, the absolutely worst thing that can happen in this matchup is Chalice @ 1. If you can't prevent that, you will most likely lose (unless you are lucky and have SnT & Emrakul and just have to make landdrops).

[Julian23]

Went back a couple of pages but couldn't find it - what Ub list are you currently recommending?

[Adan]

Went back a couple of pages but couldn't find it - what Ub list are you currently recommending?

I didn't bother posting my updated list because the general consensus is that:

1) Young Pyromancer is sick

2)
Massacre is good, but sudden shock and pyroclasm RAPES

[Baum]

I agree that splashing black results in a superior main deck. The red sideboard options are great though.

Right now, I'm testing a Grixis Build with MD Thoughtseize + LDV and the superior red board against the mirror and blue based control. Turned out that 2 Underground Sea and 1 Volcanic work out just fine, since red isn't needed in Wasteland matchups anyway (besides 1 Sudden Shock in the Wish board). With only 5 black spells, a basic Swamp isn't necessary.

I couldn’t test the list IRL yet, but it looks promising after about 30 matches on XMage (only counting somewhat reasonable opposing decks). Of course, some of my opponents were not exactly pro players, so the results should be taken with a grain of salt. The deck felt just great against Miracles. My 4 losses were against Grixis Delver, BUG Delver (with Stifle/Sinkhole/Hymn – double Sinkhole is brutal Oo), Grixis Landstill (screwed that one up) and Affinity (he had a faster goldfish in G3).


4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lim-Dûl's Vault

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Thoughtseize

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard:

2 Young Pyromancer
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Dig Through Time
1 Wipe Away
1 Sudden Shock


And yeah, that’s only 3 Dig Through Time in the main deck. Dig is probably the best card in the deck, but drawing too many gets clunky pretty fast, so I’d rather have Dig + LDV in hand than 2 Dig.

[MGB]

Does this deck have any bad matchups at all?

I've been testing this deck recently online and it just seems as if it's favored in every matchup. Honestly, I don't understand why this deck isn't just 50%+ of every single Top 8 as long as Dig Through Time and Show and Tell are legal in this format.

[Lans89]

Does this deck have any bad matchups at all?

I've been testing this deck recently online and it just seems as if it's favored in every matchup. Honestly, I don't understand why this deck isn't just 50%+ of every single Top 8 as long as Dig Through Time and Show and Tell are legal in this format.

Grixis Control seems pretty bad, but I agree that this deck is OP!

[Mackan]

Does this deck have any bad matchups at all?

I've been testing this deck recently online and it just seems as if it's favored in every matchup. Honestly, I don't understand why this deck isn't just 50%+ of every single Top 8 as long as Dig Through Time and Show and Tell are legal in this format.

Reanimator is a bad matchup too. Other than that decks with ATLEAST two angles of attack and a decent clock can be troublesome (be it hatebears, discard or counterspells) because we have to "guess" correctly when sideboarding. Boseiju is bad against wasteland+thoughtseize but good against flusterstorm and fow, as an example. Some decks that are equally fast or even faster like storm, burn or elves can be problematic (if we have a slow start, that is). Miracles I would say is about even but the matchup is grindy and very deck/player dependant. In the near months of legacy I would not leave home without grafdigger's cage if I was playing omnishow. The hate for reanimator (and dredge etc) is simply not there because everyone want to resolve DTT. We allready see lands on the rise because of this but that deck is not really good against either miracles or omnishow, not compared to reanimator atleast.

[Adan]

Does this deck have any bad matchups at all?

Reanimator and Dredge. I also dislike playing against Death and Taxes, even though I think I figured out what to do. These matchups are the ones that you can easily lose.

Miracles can also be a grind, regardless of which splash you play.

[spirit of the wretch]

Does this deck have any bad matchups at all?
Lockdown.dec
Any deck that plays Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere. Be it Tezzerator, Dargon Stompy, MUD or Sylvan Plug. These cards are really bad for this Cantrip.dec

Faster Combo
Mostly Storm and Reanimator. Equal amounts of disruption but a quicker goldfish make this quite the tough matchup. At least for the red splash.

Disruption.dec
BUG Delver, Ying & Yang,… Everything that has counter/discard AND a relevant clock is going to be hard.

So yeah, if you want to beat this deck, it's not actually that hard. The same with all linear strategies. The good thing for us however is that most of the bad MUs are very fringe, class cannon type decks. Of course, that is little consolation if you lose round three at a GP to one :)

[AsmodeusDM]

So I played in 2 OmniTell mirrors yesterday at the Sunday Legacy IQ at the SCG Columbus/Origins event.

I'm a fairly new pilot to the deck, but did OK at the event; however I lost both the mirrors. Both the players were regular SCG top8'ers so I assume they had a much better idea of what was going on in the mirror than I did.

Can anyone give me some good pointers for the mirror?

---

The only take away (based on of course a very small sample size) is that all the games that I tried to "go off" first; I lost. Typically I would S&T, we would both put in an Omniscience; and then when I would try to win (or cast Emrakul) they would go off in response and win.. or at the very least end with a Trickbind on my Emrakul extra-turn trigger.

[Varal]

Show and Tell is the worst card in the mirror since it enables you just as much as your opponent. Gitaxian Probe can be a key card to know if your opponent is "pants down". The game can be really slow, almost like a control mirror, you'll often see a player casting Dig Though Time in response to Dig Through Time to find his own counterspell.

[KobeBryan]

Show and Tell is the worst card in the mirror since it enables you just as much as your opponent. Gitaxian Probe can be a key card to know if your opponent is "pants down". The game can be really slow, almost like a control mirror, you'll often see a player casting Dig Though Time in response to Dig Through Time to find his own counterspell.

you think thats bad...when you drop show and tell...its instant after instant

[TraxDaMax]

Went 6-2 in the Sunday legacy of GP Chiba. Will post a small report this week of what I can recall from my notes.

[Lans89]

So I played in 2 OmniTell mirrors yesterday at the Sunday Legacy IQ at the SCG Columbus/Origins event.

I'm a fairly new pilot to the deck, but did OK at the event; however I lost both the mirrors. Both the players were regular SCG top8'ers so I assume they had a much better idea of what was going on in the mirror than I did.

Can anyone give me some good pointers for the mirror?

---

The only take away (based on of course a very small sample size) is that all the games that I tried to "go off" first; I lost. Typically I would S&T, we would both put in an Omniscience; and then when I would try to win (or cast Emrakul) they would go off in response and win.. or at the very least end with a Trickbind on my Emrakul extra-turn trigger.

In won 2 mirrors, because I played flusterstorm vs opponents with spell pierce. I also made good use of Boseije (1 main, 1 side). A lot of Omnitell players side out 2 Show and Tell, a City of Traitors and maybe a few others spells (list dependant). Young Pyromancer is a good alternative win-con to bring in.

But the games go like this: Both players sculpt their hand and make land drops turn after turn. I don't even want to see Show and Tell in the first turns, but need an Omniscience asap + the good mirror cards, like DTT, Cunning Wish, FoW and in my case Flusterstorm. This way you win if your opponent starts with S&T. You only Show and Tell If you know you will win the instant spell war. Most of the time both players will have many lands, a well sculpted hand and 1 player starts with an end of turn DTT. Then you take the turn with 9 cards in hand and can win the war. This will happen after a few attempts, because there will be battled around resolving that end of turn DTT in the first place. This is why I had such an advantage with my Boseiju's. Gitaxian Probe gives you all the info you need about when and how you can win.

There are ofc many points to make about the mirror. You shouldn't try to win with Ants, getting Wipe Away with cunning wish somewhere in between turn is awesome etc.

[Baum]

If I don't draw Pyromancer, my standard plan is to wish for Wipe Away before the combo turn with Boseiju backup if possible. Then you can juste bounce their Omniscience and go on with your life. Otherwise just what Lans89 said. Always keep Omniscience in your hand so they can't go oft too easily.

[Adan]

So I played in 2 OmniTell mirrors yesterday at the Sunday Legacy IQ at the SCG Columbus/Origins event.

I'm a fairly new pilot to the deck, but did OK at the event; however I lost both the mirrors. Both the players were regular SCG top8'ers so I assume they had a much better idea of what was going on in the mirror than I did.

Can anyone give me some good pointers for the mirror?

---

The only take away (based on of course a very small sample size) is that all the games that I tried to "go off" first; I lost. Typically I would S&T, we would both put in an Omniscience; and then when I would try to win (or cast Emrakul) they would go off in response and win.. or at the very least end with a Trickbind on my Emrakul extra-turn trigger.

The mirrormatch can be mindboggling. So first of all, you need to have Omniscience under any circumstance. The player without Omniscience will lose indefinitely. However, once both players have Omniscience, it all revolves around who has more instants (roughly any amount of Cunning Wish, Dig Through Time and Countermagic).
You also have to factor in whether you play Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm as Flusterstorm is absolutely insane in the mirrormatch whereas Spell Pierce is rather mediocre in a long outdrawn game. There are also some lists that play a Fork-spell where conventional lists would play Impulse. These fork-spells can do insane things in the mirrormatch as well.

Then you also have to think which mirror-breakers the lists might play in their sideboard (I've seen lists playing Iona, Shield of Emeria, then there are lists that play "stack-emptiers" such as Flusterstorm, Mindbreak Trap or Time Stop in their SB to access with CWish).

In postboard games, things can get even more weird depending on the splashes. Thoughtseize is a very strong card in the mirror, but so is Pyroblast/REB. I'm not a huge fan of Young Pyromancer, but its presence does apply pressure and forces you to act.
I think the black splash could do the same easily (Pack Rat, Gurmag Angler?).

[Baum]

I tested Pack Rat in Thema UB version quite a bit. It is OK in the mirror, but there will be some games where you can't copy it because your cards in hand are too valuable.

[kuroko16]

Brad Nelson play omnitell now?:cool: good second last sunday at starcity

[mariobross]

taking as a starting point a standard list of this deck such examples to brad nelson list:

Creatures [2]
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants [20]
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
3 Cunning Wish
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [16]
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments [4]
4 Omniscience

Lands [18]
1 Scalding Tarn
2 City of Traitors
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
5 Island

Side:
2 Young Pyromancer
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Electrickery
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Flusterstorm
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Release the Ants
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wipe Away
1 Pyroclasm


What do you side-IN/OUT in the most important metch up like: Miracles, Grixys, ANT, Team America?

I think this is one of the most important points of the game

[Tokugawa]

Brad Nelson play omnitell now?:cool: good second last sunday at starcity

SCG pros picked this deck. And the price of Omniscience and Cwish skyrocketed last week.:tongue:

[KobeBryan]

taking as a starting point a standard list of this deck such examples to brad nelson list:

Creatures [2]
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants [20]
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
3 Cunning Wish
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [16]
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments [4]
4 Omniscience

Lands [18]
1 Scalding Tarn
2 City of Traitors
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
5 Island

Side:
2 Young Pyromancer
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Electrickery
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Flusterstorm
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Release the Ants
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wipe Away
1 Pyroclasm


What do you side-IN/OUT in the most important metch up like: Miracles, Grixys, ANT, Team America?

I think this is one of the most important points of the game

from your list (sudden shock is better)

miracles Out - 1 emrakul, impulse, intuition, 2 spell pierce. In - 2 Young Pyro, 1 pyroclasm, 1 pyroblast, 1 REB

Grixis Out - 1 impulse, 1 intuition, 1 probe, In - 1 pyro, 1 electrickery, 1 flusterstorm

ANT - Out - 1 intuition, 1 emrakul, In - 1 flusterstorm, 1 surgical

Team america - Have fun with this one. Out - 1 intuition, 1 probe, 1 emmy. In - 1 fluster, 1 REB, 1 Pyro

[mariobross]

what you think of the dilemma between 3 or 4 main dig in?
of course it is one of the first targets of those who wish to play 3 main and one side
Indeed brad nelson in its list of side play FoF to have a similar target with wish


another question is about the use of Boseiju in side or main or both, of course it depends very much on the meta, but other than that what do you think? you would use against deck with wasteland as grixys, team america, canadian or you remove them?

[Baum]

what you think of the dilemma between 3 or 4 main dig in?
of course it is one of the first targets of those who wish to play 3 main and one side
Indeed brad nelson in its list of side play FoF to have a similar target with wish


another question is about the use of Boseiju in side or main or both, of course it depends very much on the meta, but other than that what do you think? you would use against deck with wasteland as grixys, team america, canadian or you remove them?

In the U and UR versions: Always 4 Dig.

Personally, I would never go below 2 Boseijus in my 75. And I never side it out against Delver. The card just says: "Either you have a Wasteland right now, or you're dead"

[KobeBryan]

In the U and UR versions: Always 4 Dig.

Personally, I would never go below 2 Boseijus in my 75. And I never side it out against Delver. The card just says: "Either you have a Wasteland right now, or you're dead"

And those decks pack a lot of wastelands

[daniels]

What about the Mono Blue version? What is the best list? I'll try to use this list, but I'm starting to play Omnitell for few weeks, I need some advices, I'm a noobie. My meta here is full of aggro tribal decks (goblins, merfolks, ...), Death and Taxes, Reanimate, Burn and Delver (all variations).

Here is the list:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Cunning Wish
1 Impulse
3 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Omniscience
7 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Crystal Vein
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Spell Pierce
1 Intuition
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sapphire Charm
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Dig Through Time
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cag

[KobeBryan]

What about the Mono Blue version? What is the best list? I'll try to use this list, but I'm starting to play Omnitell for few weeks, I need some advices, I'm a noobie. My meta here is full of aggro tribal decks (goblins, merfolks, ...), Death and Taxes, Reanimate, Burn and Delver (all variations).

Here is the list:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Cunning Wish
1 Impulse
3 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Omniscience
7 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Crystal Vein
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Spell Pierce
1 Intuition
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sapphire Charm
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Dig Through Time
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cag

if those decks are in your meta, may i suggest you not run 3 tombs.

[daniels]

if those decks are in your meta, may i suggest you not run 3 tombs.

How many? I don't have city of traitors, I can't afford it atm. I just have a playset of Crystal Vein and 3 Tombs.

[Baum]

And those decks pack a lot of wastelands

How many matches have you won against good RUG Delver players without sticking Boseiju (if they resolve a turn 1 threat)?

[famdoola]

How many matches have you won against good RUG Delver players without sticking Boseiju (if they resolve a turn 1 threat)?


i think im in full agreement with you that boseiju is an absolute MD inclusion and could very well deserve to be a 2-of.

its really fuckin hard to beat those clocks AND have the counter back up and like you said - Boseiju = Wasteland or you're dead

[KobeBryan]

How many matches have you won against good RUG Delver players without sticking Boseiju (if they resolve a turn 1 threat)?

I never said I don't use it. I'm just saying it's not as effective as you say since that deck packs wastelands and stifles.

Rug's boarding plan is simple. Out 4 bolts. In 2 pyroblasts, 1 ancient grudge, 1 whatever they usually have against combo.

That is enough to stop you. Without grid to bait counters, its a hard matchup like BUG

I just had the sickest play.

This guy plays flickerwisp on a response to show and tell omni.

I cunning wish in response. Get FF. FF gets me another cunning wish, a twincast, and a brainstorm. I then use cunning for ants, then twincast for cunning, getting call. I then brainstorm the emmy to the top for the win.

I don't know if impulse would have gotten me there. Never had a chance to see how deep i would have dug.

[Baum]

I never said I don't use it. I'm just saying it's not as effective as you say since that deck packs wastelands and stifles.

Rug's boarding plan is simple. Out 4 bolts. In 2 pyroblasts, 1 ancient grudge, 1 whatever they usually have against combo.

That is enough to stop you. Without grid to bait counters, its a hard matchup like BUG

I just had the sickest play.

This guy plays flickerwisp on a response to show and tell omni.

I cunning wish in response. Get FF. FF gets me another cunning wish, a twincast, and a brainstorm. I then use cunning for ants, then twincast for cunning, getting call. I then brainstorm the emmy to the top for the win.

I don't know if impulse would have gotten me there. Never had a chance to see how deep i would have dug.
OK, then we agree. I never wanted to say that Boseiju is the best plan ever against Delver. But the matchup is bad and I think the land is one of our best shots without Grid. Resolving S&T with enough mana to win a counter war and to pay for soft counters is just unrealistic.

[kuroko16]

from your list (sudden shock is better)

miracles Out - 1 emrakul, impulse, intuition, 2 spell pierce. In - 2 Young Pyro, 1 pyroclasm, 1 pyroblast, 1 REB

Grixis Out - 1 impulse, 1 intuition, 1 probe, In - 1 pyro, 1 electrickery, 1 flusterstorm

ANT - Out - 1 intuition, 1 emrakul, In - 1 flusterstorm, 1 surgical

Team america - Have fun with this one. Out - 1 intuition, 1 probe, 1 emmy. In - 1 fluster, 1 REB, 1 Pyro


i honestly add more red spell g2 g3. probably it's my mistake. you dont in Bolt against Grixis?

[Adan]

I never said I don't use it. I'm just saying it's not as effective as you say since that deck packs wastelands and stifles.

Rug's boarding plan is simple. Out 4 bolts. In 2 pyroblasts, 1 ancient grudge, 1 whatever they usually have against combo.

That is enough to stop you. Without grid to bait counters, its a hard matchup like BUG

It's not, an no one plays Defense Grid so bringing in Ancient Grudge is terrible. Keeping Spell Snares is also terrible. So far I am undefeated against all kind of Delvers, BUG, RUG, Shardless BUG or Grixis/Grixis Pyromancer. Overall they are very easy to grind out (especially if you play Noxious Revival).


I just had the sickest play.

This guy plays flickerwisp on a response to show and tell omni.

I cunning wish in response. Get FF. FF gets me another cunning wish, a twincast, and a brainstorm. I then use cunning for ants, then twincast for cunning, getting call. I then brainstorm the emmy to the top for the win.

I don't know if impulse would have gotten me there. Never had a chance to see how deep i would have dug.

...which is exactly the play I intended to do a couple of pages before. It just didn't work in my particular case because my opponent was very likely to have Surgical Extraction to mess up the clash. And Twincast should be Split Decision.


OK, then we agree. I never wanted to say that Boseiju is the best plan ever against Delver. But the matchup is bad and I think the land is one of our best shots without Grid. Resolving S&T with enough mana to win a counter war and to pay for soft counters is just unrealistic.

Okay, this is where our understandings about OmniShow completely diverge. For your list, the matchup is way harder as you play cards (like Thoughtseize and Lim-Dul's Vault) that demand you to fetch lands that can be hit by Wasteland. So either you risk getting hit by Wastelands or fetch basic Islands and risk that these spells clog up your hand. This is a problem that I often faced in Milano.

Furthermore, I'm still on a UB list. Conceptually, my UB list is actually monocolored in the maindeck with 18 lands and 4 Gitaxian Probe to support the somewhat greedy landcount of 18 lands. Boseiju is somewhat of a 19th land, but it's rather considered as a disruption spell dedicated for Miracles). Most of the time when I Gitaxian Probe'd my opponent, I often saw 1-2 Wastelands clogging up his hand, and BUG Delver sometimes even has some Abrupt Decays. This is also a point where you can consider spell-piercing a Brainstorm as they can't unclog their hand.

However, postboard I'll always swap the Boseiju and 4 Probes for the basic swamp in my SB, 3 Thoughtseize a Toxic Deluge (sometimes I just keep a singleton Probe, against BUG I usually side out 1 of 4 DTT so I can access it with CWish in the face of a very grindy game), so I basically switch to a 19 lands build that goes at a slower pace, instead of cycling through your deck with probes you pack more disruption in the form of Thoughtseize. You have to consider that there is no Delver build that can create cardadvantage by actually drawing cards (Shardless BUG can, but that's a different story, their clock is the slowest among BUG/RUG builds), so Thoughtseize is an absolutely excellent card as it gives you information and bottlenecks them at the same time (either you take their pressure or disruption). Furthermore Delverdecks are very bad at playing from the top.

You have to take into account that Delver decks need Mana, disruption and pressure, all at the same time. I had some Delver players keeping a hand with Delver, Land, double-Flusterstorm, a Pyroblast, Wasteland and Ponder. This looks nice, but they can only cast one of their blasts/flusters at a time if they don't draw lands.

In these matchups, Toxic Deluge is also pretty bonkers as it wipes everything for just 3 life (typically a lot of RUG Delver players will side out one or two Tarmogoyfs as they are clunky as hell and tapping down two mana often means not being able to counter multiple times with Pierce, REB/Pyro, Fluster or whatsoever). Either that, or it will most likely pull a Force of Will or Flusterstorm. In either case, both scenarios will bring you very close to winning the game.

[Burnplayer]

Hi.

This is my current decklist (a modification of my last perfect creation)




4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
8 Island
3 City of Traitors
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Impulse
4 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will

SB:


2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Firemind's Foreseight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Trickbind
1 Noxius Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Shappire Charm
1 Rushing River
1 Release the Ants


I don't like splashes. The only splash that for me seems me good is black splash to Massacre. I think that the deck is more consistent monoblue.

I removed the single Enter the Infinite for the second Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. And I play Spell Pierce and no Pact of Negation. I moved Pact of Negation to the sideboard vs RUG/Patriot/Hard counters decks. Spell pierce is good vs BUG, Miracles and Combo.

Removing the Enter the Infinite also removed the sideboard's Dream Halls.

[daniels]

What's the advantages to use 2 Emrakul instead just one? I've tested it, but I didn't see any real advantages.


Hi.

This is my current decklist (a modification of my last perfect creation)




4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
8 Island
3 City of Traitors
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Impulse
4 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will

SB:


2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Firemind's Foreseight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Trickbind
1 Noxius Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Shappire Charm
1 Rushing River
1 Release the Ants


I don't like splashes. The only splash that for me seems me good is black splash to Massacre. I think that the deck is more consistent monoblue.

I removed the single Enter the Infinite for the second Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. And I play Spell Pierce and no Pact of Negation. I moved Pact of Negation to the sideboard vs RUG/Patriot/Hard counters decks. Spell pierce is good vs BUG, Miracles and Combo.

Removing the Enter the Infinite also removed the sideboard's Dream Halls.

[Karhumies]

So far I am undefeated against all kind of Delvers, BUG, RUG, Shardless BUG or Grixis/Grixis Pyromancer. Overall they are very easy to grind out (especially if you play Noxious Revival).

Have you played against BUG with 3-4 MD Hymn? It is possibly the most popular Delver build where I live. Combined with 4 Probe, 4 Spot Discard and 4 DRS to clear our grave and prevent our DtT delving, that's a nasty MU according to my experience.

[GoblinZ]

So far I am undefeated against all kind of Delvers, BUG, RUG, Shardless BUG or Grixis/Grixis Pyromancer. Overall they are very easy to grind out (especially if you play Noxious Revival).



How do you beat grixis or ur delver, which I found is very difficult?

[kuroko16]

some guide to what side in-out with red splash?

[Burnplayer]

Emrakul is good vs Miracles: Boseiju --> Show and Tell --> Omniscience --> Emrakul

Is good vs Mud if your opponent are waiting you with a Trinisphere. Show and Tell to Emrakul and you win.

Is good vs Thalia Show --> Omniscience --> Emrakul for only 4 mana.

Is good vs Canonist.

And makes the deck quickly if you can to play Show and Tell + Emrakul (with Gitaxian)

[sawatarix]

This weekend I'm on my own Omnishow interpretation after having a lot of success with Ant here in Japan.
I'll definately run 2 Repeals in the sb to deal with nasty permanents postboard while cantrippin'.
This deck is still the control deck among all combodecks so we need to keep in mind that there is even a game before we combo off.


http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/78663

Here is a question for all the really experienced omnitell players among you : How good is siding in thoughtseize + swamp compared to siding in pyroblasts and flusterstorms against delverdecks and grixis control?
From my view as a Stormplayer I would instantly grab diacard because it is one of the best way to deal with disruption.But at the same time the lonely swamp seems kinda awkward to me in a mono blue deck.
Let me know.

- Kai Sawatari

[Mackan]

The reason I like the black splash is because it's great vs combo (discarding omniscience in the mirror for example) and a way to fight miracles fighting boseiju i.e ethersworn canonist and vendilion clique. It's also less mana-intense than reb because you only have so much mana available the turn you try to go off. Information is also key (similar to ANT) and it's awesome to have a flexible "counterspell" like thoughtseize that sometimes nab ashen rider or flusterstorm.

With a basic swamp in the deck it's even good against the aggro/midrange decks you mention (for the same reasons why it's good in storm). If you go with the black cards I strongly advice you to replace spell pierce with flusterstorm to give you more ways to fight/resolve DTT since you no longer have access to REB. Massacre or Pyroclasm is about the same so to me the decision is mostly about Young Pyromancer or no (And I haven't played much with YP but I suspect it's better than Pack Rat someone suggested).

One difference between thoughtseize in and and omnishow is also that it's pretty good at removing opposing pressure and go for a grindier game on the back of DTT. Vs stoneblade for example you can take their stoneforge and just sit their until you find boseiju -> dtt -> show and tell ftw.

This is the list I played up until GP Kyoto before going back to miracles again.

CREATURES (2)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Omniscience
SORCERIES (17)
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
INSTANTS (17)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Flusterstorm
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Lotus Petal
LANDS (18)
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Eladamri’s Call
2 Massacre
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Trickbind
1 Swan Song
1 Dig Through Time
2 Defense Grid
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Rushing River
1 Noxious Revival

I really like thoughtseize maindeck. Lifeloss is mostly relevant in allready good matchups and taking my opponent's only relevant card turn 1-2 and go off is awesome.
If you prefer them in the sideboard I would play 1 boseiju md over the swamp and add 2 gitaxian probe and an intuition over the thoughtseizes and remove the defense grid and a cage to make room in the sideboard instead.

Under no circumstances I would play a 3 color version and I think both red and black are superior to green (krosan grip) or white (mentor/silence) for example.

[Adan]

This weekend I'm on my own Omnishow interpretation after having a lot of success with Ant here in Japan.
I'll definately run 2 Repeals in the sb to deal with nasty permanents postboard while cantrippin'.
This deck is still the control deck among all combodecks so we need to keep in mind that there is even a game before we combo off.


http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/78663

Here is a question for all the really experienced omnitell players among you : How good is siding in thoughtseize + swamp compared to siding in pyroblasts and flusterstorms against delverdecks and grixis control?
From my view as a Stormplayer I would instantly grab diacard because it is one of the best way to deal with disruption.But at the same time the lonely swamp seems kinda awkward to me in a mono blue deck.
Let me know.

- Kai Sawatari

It's an indestructible black mana source and basic land number 6 against Delvers and Death & Taxes. And against D&T, Massacre is always alive with it.
Thoughtseize simply has the advantage of acting pro-actively. Oh, and it punishes greedy openers at times. I probably won 2 or 3 games by 1st turn thoughtseizing a Ponder out of my opponents hand and he got stuck on his single land. Since his hand was loaded with Pierce, REB and Flusterstorm, he could not play his Delver, because playing Delver meant to give up all his countermagic.

On a sidenote, Repeal is pretty shitty. It costs you an enormous amount of mana to bounce something, most of the time you have to bounce whatever problem permanent there is EOT, which means you won't be able to cast a nice sequence of Ponder/Preordain/Brainstorm. You will in one way or another lose a turn of setup just for the fact that Repeal costs you at least 3 Mana to bounce a significant permanent.

Repeal also sucks against decks that run Aether Vial.

And for the fact that Gaddock Teeg is still somewhere out there, and that these decks tend to play Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull together with it, I'd play Sapphire Charm over Repeal any day.

With Sapphire Charm, you don't need to worry about Aether Vial, you don't need an awful lot of mana, and it can exile Batterskull forever (because that's how phasing works). And well, Sapphire Charm cantrips if it turns out to be useless or unnecessary for the board state.

[KobeBryan]

i honestly add more red spell g2 g3. probably it's my mistake. you dont in Bolt against Grixis?

What am I bolting in grixis. I have pyroclasm to clear the board

[Macky984]

So since most people's main deck are the same or at least very close...

The flex cards in my board are:
2x Pyroclasm
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Blood Moon
1x Boseiju

Thoughts?

[sawatarix]

Thx for the quick response Mackan and Adan.
Well, I get your point here.
But, this deck has only 5 ways to get basic Swamp (4 fetchlands+Swamp itself) so I'm wondering if you have had colour problems so far. for instance you have 1-2 discard spell(s) but no black source...
1 Underground Sea could be useful here although it's a nonbasic Land.

repeal reads: 2U: bounce target hatebear. Draw a card.
In this case it is exactly the same like Repulse :D
#EDHStuff

dismember or ghastly demise comes into my mind for instant removal alongside 2 Massacre.

[famdoola]

I never said I don't use it. I'm just saying it's not as effective as you say since that deck packs wastelands and stifles.

Rug's boarding plan is simple. Out 4 bolts. In 2 pyroblasts, 1 ancient grudge, 1 whatever they usually have against combo.

That is enough to stop you. Without grid to bait counters, its a hard matchup like BUG

I just had the sickest play.

This guy plays flickerwisp on a response to show and tell omni.

I cunning wish in response. Get FF. FF gets me another cunning wish, a twincast, and a brainstorm. I then use cunning for ants, then twincast for cunning, getting call. I then brainstorm the emmy to the top for the win.

I don't know if impulse would have gotten me there. Never had a chance to see how deep i would have dug.



Hell yeah man!!! TWINCAST!!!!!

psyched to see other people are playing it as well, and i feel like with the Black splash it can make for sum tight plays like ( Thoughtseize/Massacre/Surgical + Twincast ) as well, but i've yet to bring the splash to my LGS.

But the basic play of Cunning - > FF - >> Cunning + Twincast + Brainstorm is incredibly versatile, cuz if you're playing 2 emrakul, you are 99.99% guaranteed to win that turn, as you can Twincast the Eladamri and grab em both, or do what you're talking about and have access to emrakul + release the ants = guaranteed win 99% of the time.

What ends up happening for me most of the time is Wish on hate trigger, FF , Wish-Twin-Brainstorm, Double the wish, Grab Trickbind and Eladamri and Win.

I really love it over impulse, and although i love Lim-dul's vault, im cautious of the mana base and the lifeloss there. If im gonna be running LDV i would probably go with Cabal Therapy or Duress, but would have to really do some hardtesting to figure that out.

I think i'm definitely going to bring the black splash next week, and start testing it online tonight.


Also curious -- If we were to run 2 MD boseiju, how should we shake out the mana base? I'm almost thinking of Running 20 lands, dropping a probe, and like the one dude said have it be 19 lands with the 2nd boseiju being effectively another "i Win" spell

[famdoola]

Curious if anyone on here has played with Gifts Ungiven out of the SB?

I've never played with it but it seems that in our deck where there are multiple ways of us "getting there" it can net us 2 cards that we need, but would have to played smartly like

we have SNT - Omni and need the business

grab - SNT - OMNI - DTT -- Boseiju/Emrakul/whatever combination of cards we need to go off, and have them really need to think, but it would need to be played smarty so that none of the decisions they make really help, which with our deck seems kinda easy to do haha.

It almost seems like Cabal Therapy in that you need to have a solid knowledge of the meta/boardstate/etc., to use effectively -- but can be better than intuition if done correctly.

[KobeBryan]

Curious if anyone on here has played with Gifts Ungiven out of the SB?

I've never played with it but it seems that in our deck where there are multiple ways of us "getting there" it can net us 2 cards that we need, but would have to played smartly like

we have SNT - Omni and need the business

grab - SNT - OMNI - DTT -- Boseiju/Emrakul/whatever combination of cards we need to go off, and have them really need to think, but it would need to be played smarty so that none of the decisions they make really help, which with our deck seems kinda easy to do haha.

It almost seems like Cabal Therapy in that you need to have a solid knowledge of the meta/boardstate/etc., to use effectively -- but can be better than intuition if done correctly.

Sorry man. But it's not the card you suggest that's important. It's the card you also intend to replace. Ie impulse to twincast

[famdoola]

Sorry man. But it's not the card you suggest that's important. It's the card you also intend to replace. Ie impulse to twincast


For sure man, should've included that - With Gifts ungiven my SB would look like this :


SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Sapphire Charm
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Gifts Ungiven


Given my local meta gearing less towards discard, i'm thinking Leylines might be better off becoming Noxious-Defense Grid - and something else... Not exactly sure as i've been playing with the Leylines for awhile now, so would need some insight into how to work it without them.

I've been crazy busy lately so i havent had a ton of time to really test and think everything. My last breakthrough was with Twincast > Impulse, but since then i've been just way too busy to really cover everything else.

[KobeBryan]

I believe with twincast, there is no reason to play Release the Ants

The biggest hinderance to an Emrakul win is ensnaring bridge. But with FF, you can get cunning wish, twin cast, brainstorm.

The first Cunning can get you wipeaway, then twincast gets you Call.

This may help save a sideboard slot that we desperately need. Then again, they may drop 2 ensnaring bridges.

If there is something i'm missing for the need of a release wincon, please let me know. I just can't think of it.

[famdoola]

I believe with twincast, there is no reason to play Release the Ants

The biggest hinderance to an Emrakul win is ensnaring bridge. But with FF, you can get cunning wish, twin cast, brainstorm.

The first Cunning can get you wipeaway, then twincast gets you Call.

This may help save a sideboard slot that we desperately need. Then again, they may drop 2 ensnaring bridges.

If there is something i'm missing for the need of a release wincon, please let me know. I just can't think of it.




My rationale was to cut the 1 Curfew i was running to bounce Emrakul back to hand, and add in the Release the Ants, because of situations where you may have already used Twincast on something

[Varal]

I believe with twincast, there is no reason to play Release the Ants

The biggest hinderance to an Emrakul win is ensnaring bridge. But with FF, you can get cunning wish, twin cast, brainstorm.

The first Cunning can get you wipeaway, then twincast gets you Call.

This may help save a sideboard slot that we desperately need. Then again, they may drop 2 ensnaring bridges.

If there is something i'm missing for the need of a release wincon, please let me know. I just can't think of it.

How do you deal with Ashen Rider? There's also some scenario where Emrakul isn't lethal but opponent has lethal the next turn. There must be some scenarios against Enchantress like Choke + Elephant Grass or something similar. Hive Mind + Double Pact. Might be some contrived scenario against Painter involving Combo + Rest in Peace/Tormod's Crypt.

You can always find scenario where a card is needed but there's no room for all of them. Sometimes you just lose to weird stuff and must accept to only prepare for the most frequent scenarios.

[KobeBryan]

How do you deal with Ashen Rider? There's also some scenario where Emrakul isn't lethal but opponent has lethal the next turn. There must be some scenarios against Enchantress like Choke + Elephant Grass or something similar. Hive Mind + Double Pact. Might be some contrived scenario against Painter involving Combo + Rest in Peace/Tormod's Crypt.

You can always find scenario where a card is needed but there's no room for all of them. Sometimes you just lose to weird stuff and must accept to only prepare for the most frequent scenarios.

Im not sure how to deal with Ashen Rider. The matchup against reanimator is so bad, I don't have too many chances to even play around my sideboard cards. Or at least every time I face a reanimator opponent, which is rare these days.

For someone that isn't facing lethal, you can always go cunning wish, call, then twincast the call for double emrakhals. That should be enough. I just can't really think of a time when I need release if i can get double emrakhals. Unless that person is not facing lethal, has ensnaring bridge out and I cannot win the game with one emrakhl. I just don't see this situation all to often.

[kuroko16]

you guys think that Wasteland is a problem wit Red or black splash? i lost 2 top8 for wasteland a volcanic in g3 :(

it is possible for you play 1 mountain ?

maybe this ?

5 Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 City of Traitors
1 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

[Mackan]

Thx for the quick response Mackan and Adan.
Well, I get your point here.
But, this deck has only 5 ways to get basic Swamp (4 fetchlands+Swamp itself) so I'm wondering if you have had colour problems so far. for instance you have 1-2 discard spell(s) but no black source...
1 Underground Sea could be useful here although it's a nonbasic Land.

repeal reads: 2U: bounce target hatebear. Draw a card.
In this case it is exactly the same like Repulse :D
#EDHStuff

dismember or ghastly demise comes into my mind for instant removal alongside 2 Massacre.

It's true that sometimes it's hard to fetch the basic swamp but also remember that we play five billion cantrips. It's often not a problem to find the swamp in time and it's awesome to have it around until you find/need that massacre. It's also a nice insurance with slaughter pact (which btw I think is the best removal spell for this deck, when splashing black... I mean ZERO mana).

I also play 2 lotus petals so my number of black sources is 12 which is perfectly fine.

I really like petals in the deck... G1 you want to be explosive and paired with discard you get soooooo many free wins. Game2 you often side them out and go for the grindier game vs decks with a lot of hate. Petal is not only great with Show and tell and reduce the cost of DTT by 2 but paired up with flusterstorm and thoughtseize you have "50% more force of will" than your blue opponent.

[kkkant]

I dont get why Fact or Fiction became a popular SB choice. Can someone explain it to me?

[kuroko16]

I dont get why Fact or Fiction became a popular SB choice. Can someone explain it to me?

Honesty i have no idea.

[Julian23]

Chris Van Meter mentioned it as one of the options when you (like him) want a business spell to fetch with Cunning Wish.

[Varal]

Im not sure how to deal with Ashen Rider. The matchup against reanimator is so bad, I don't have too many chances to even play around my sideboard cards. Or at least every time I face a reanimator opponent, which is rare these days.

For someone that isn't facing lethal, you can always go cunning wish, call, then twincast the call for double emrakhals. That should be enough. I just can't really think of a time when I need release if i can get double emrakhals. Unless that person is not facing lethal, has ensnaring bridge out and I cannot win the game with one emrakhl. I just don't see this situation all to often.

In a pure race situation there's pretty much only Dredge that can survive a double Emrakul and maybe Land but if Elves put down a Reclamation Sage or a deck plays a random Oblivion Ring, Vendilion Clique, trigger + Krosan Grip or whatever, it might be a tougher fight.

There might be some situations involving discard + Surgical Extraction but this might only happen if decklists are known.

[wonderPreaux]

I dont get why Fact or Fiction became a popular SB choice. Can someone explain it to me?

As far as Wish-able business goes, a lousy DTT that powers actual DTT isn't the worst. Out of curiosity, has anyone running the red splash actually Wished and hardcasted Foresight to refuel before?

[KobeBryan]

As far as Wish-able business goes, a lousy DTT that powers actual DTT isn't the worst. Out of curiosity, has anyone running the red splash actually Wished and hardcasted Foresight to refuel before?

Never

Its already hard enough to cast FF, let alone cunning wishing for it then casting it.

[Adan]

As far as Wish-able business goes, a lousy DTT that powers actual DTT isn't the worst. Out of curiosity, has anyone running the red splash actually Wished and hardcasted Foresight to refuel before?

I still don't see why you would want Fact or Fiction. In games that I expect to be grindy, I usually side out one DTT that I can still access with CWish (this also kinda jacks up the number of counter-baits for the postboard games). Fact or Fiction - and I've seen Gifts Ungiven in some cases - just feel so wrong in a metagame that has got a lot of taxing counters (Daze, Pierce, Flusterstorm) and taxing effects (Thalia, Thorn of Amethyst).

Mind that Delve also circumvents Thalia.

Having DTT and Noxious Revival in the board makes Cunning Wishes very versatile in the postboard games. In other lists, drawing more than one is usually very painful as the 1st Cunning Wish you cast is okay and any Cunning Wish drawn beyond that is just crap as it can only be used as a pure wincon under Omniscience, but not as a "swiss army knife".

So overall I believe siding out a DTT is way better than playing stuff like Fact or Fiction. I'd probably play something that's actually useful. So far I have no experience with the red splash, but there's a potentially good card that hasn't seen play so far: Volcanic Fallout. However, I believe the need for double-R makes it unplayable, at least with just 2 Volcanics as a red source.

[Curtis Dittmar]

Carpet Of Flowers

Iv been thinking that this could work kinda like Defense Grid in my board. I also feel like it could be completed by some thing ridiculous in the color scheme.

Im aware of the risks from splashing. Im not looking to debate whether this is good or not.

Im looking for ideas on what else could be gained from Carpet/green splash.

With that said lets have a little fun with this.

[famdoola]

Carpet Of Flowers

Iv been thinking that this could work kinda like Defense Grid in my board. I also feel like it could be completed by some thing ridiculous in the color scheme.

Im aware of the risks from splashing. Im not looking to debate whether this is good or not.

Im looking for ideas on what else could be gained from Carpet/green splash.

With that said lets have a little fun with this.


Xantid Swarm would be great for the green splash, maybe even Seedtime cuz FTW

[famdoola]

Never

Its already hard enough to cast FF, let alone cunning wishing for it then casting it.



Some more Twincast shenanigans tonight -


Death n Taxes

spirit of the labryinth in play, hes got 2 ports, ive got 4 islands, things arent looking so good for me...

Upkeep he taps 2 of my islands, response let off UU and then another UU

DIG THROUGH TIME - TWINCAST

**LOOK AT THE TOP 14 CARDS OF YOUR LIBRARY AND PUT 4 INTO YOUR HAND AND WIN THE GAME NEXT TURN**

BONG!

[Curtis Dittmar]

I feel like Swarm wood be better if Melding Mage wasn't a thing. Sounds like blowout in the mirror though. Seedtime was a card I thought about as well,i feel like the times it would be casted are after your hand was exhausted. So the extra turn wouldn't matter so much. Id probably run one though just because.

The only matchs im really scared of are Stoneblade and BUG Delver.

Id want the card/s to synergize with Carpet of Flowers and be something they kust cant handle. I have 5 slots after the wishboard and Carpets.







Hahaha Twincast+Dig..awesome.

[Lejay]

One thing that hasn't been said about carpet is that they can be additionnal and unsymetrical show and tells, especially in multiples. I used carpet of flowers to that effect in reanimator in 2010.

[Adan]

Some more Twincast shenanigans tonight -


Death n Taxes

spirit of the labryinth in play, hes got 2 ports, ive got 4 islands, things arent looking so good for me...

Upkeep he taps 2 of my islands, response let off UU and then another UU

DIG THROUGH TIME - TWINCAST

**LOOK AT THE TOP 14 CARDS OF YOUR LIBRARY AND PUT 4 INTO YOUR HAND AND WIN THE GAME NEXT TURN**

BONG!

And yet again, Twincast should be Split Decision.

[Curtis Dittmar]

One thing that hasn't been said about carpet is that they can be additionnal and unsymetrical show and tells, especially in multiples. I used carpet of flowers to that effect in reanimator in 2010.

Agreed, just casting Omni sounds wonderfull.

I wish there was some better planswalkers/cretchers in these colors. How do you think Mistcutter Hydra sounds?

[famdoola]

And yet again, Twincast should be Split Decision.

can you explain the difference? Not familiar with the advantages/disadvantages of each, aside from the terrible art on Split decision haha

[Baum]

It costs U1 instead of UU, which could matter in some scenarios.

[famdoola]

It costs U1 instead of UU, which could matter in some scenarios.



word, its just the art on Split Decision makes me wanna gag, i should get one altered and play with it, otherwise it will ruin the beautiful aesthetic masterpiece i've built

[KobeBryan]

I shot a twincast today back at a player who tried to hymn me

He lost quite a bit of cards after, a spell pierce and another hymn.

In another match, against Jeskai, he had a meddling mage out. He tried to bolt me (don't ask why), i twincast it and killed his stupid mage

[Adan]

word, its just the art on Split Decision makes me wanna gag, i should get one altered and play with it, otherwise it will ruin the beautiful aesthetic masterpiece i've built

Just leave this thread. Seriously.


I shot a twincast today back at a player who tried to hymn me

He lost quite a bit of cards after, a spell pierce and another hymn.

In another match, against Jeskai, he had a meddling mage out. He tried to bolt me (don't ask why), i twincast it and killed his stupid mage

When I was grinding a few sideevents at GP Utrecht, I played a match against Esperblade and we both looked at each others hands (Probe & Thoughtseize). He did not cast his Dig Through Time because I had Split Decision in hand, and he knew when he casted his DTT, he would just bring me back into the game because I'd copy his DTT and then counter it.
And in another game it doubled as an additional Counterspell to punch through my Show and Tell. In a rather absurd match on Cockatrice, it happened that someone hardcasted a Force of Will on my Show and Tell with Boseiju. I copied Show and Tell with Split Decision and won nevertheless.

On a sidenote, the Hymn to Tourach scenario is rather interesting. With Split Decision, you could - depending on the boardstate and handcards - also announce that you'd like to counter it instead. Then it will be the opponent's choice whether you trade 3 for 3 or 1 for 1. This could definitely make a difference, especially against a deck like Jund.

[Cave]

On a sidenote, the Hymn to Tourach scenario is rather interesting. With Split Decision, you could - depending on the boardstate and handcards - also announce that you'd like to counter it instead. Then it will be the opponent's choice whether you trade 3 for 3 or 1 for 1. This could definitely make a difference, especially against a deck like Jund.

Well, this is quite awkward indeed. It seems reather a downside than an interesting scenario!
Two typical golden rules of deckbuilding & tournament playing are:
-Always play assuming your opponent is smarter than you are
-Never ever ever ever leave your opponent a win-lose choice, because your opponent is smarter than you are and he will pick the right path to win.

That being said, the fact that a Jund player can chose between 1for1 and 3for3 seems rather devastating to me.
The situation that comes to mind is Omnitell trying to SD an hymn, and in that case, if you are both short on resources, he will go for the 1for1 choice; however, if he has some pressure on the board, even just a deathrite or -worse- a dark confidant, he will go for the 3for3 and you will lose the match. The second scenario is more* likely to occur than the first one, so i'm not really sold on what you are saying. Maybe you are thinking about something different though.

*fixed

[Adan]

Well, this is quite awkward indeed. It seems reather a downside than an interesting scenario!
Two typical golden rules of deckbuilding & tournament playing are:
-Always play assuming your opponent is smarter than you are
-Never ever ever ever leave your opponent a win-lose choice, because your opponent is smarter than you are and he will pick the right path to win.

That being said, the fact that a Jund player can chose between 1for1 and 3for3 seems rather devastating to me.
The situation that comes to mind is Omnitell trying to SD an hymn, and in that case, if you are both short on resources, he will go for the 1for1 choice; however, if he has some pressure on the board, even just a deathrite or -worse- a dark confidant, he will go for the 3for3 and you will lose the match. The second scenario is most likely to occur than the first one, so i'm not really sold on what you are saying. Maybe you are thinking about something different though.

Probably, I think i have not thought about it carefully. If the opponent casting Hymn has good handcards, you should fling it back at him anyway because if he curves a Hymn into Liliana for example, you'll lose indefinitely. If the opponent only has irrelevant stuff, he would choose the 3 for 3 in any case.

Ok yeah. It doesn't make sense. So in the latter case, you'd spare your Fork-spell to copy Dig Through Time.

[KobeBryan]

UB list that I thought of to make it somewhat make it equal to the YP build in red

The main usefulness of the UR build is for the young pyromancers against the mirror and miracles. With the maindeck in tact, and then splash bloodghasts, it may bring in the usefulness of the young pyros without going to red. Lets be honest. DIscard is much better as a combo stopper.

1 split decision
4 omni
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 preordain
4 force of will
3 gitaxin probe
4 show and tell
4 cunning wish
2 emmy
3 dig through time
4 thoughtseize
1 swamp
1 underground sea
5 island
4 polluted delta
3 misty rainforest
1 flooded straind
1 boseiju
1 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors

sideboard
2 masscare
3 bloodghast
1 slaughter pact
1 wipeaway
1 dig through time
1 trickbind
1 firemind's foresight
1 flusterstorm
1 swan song
1 emray's call
1 boseju
1 noxious revival

[Adan]

UB list that I thought of to make it somewhat make it equal to the YP build in red

The main usefulness of the UR build is for the young pyromancers against the mirror and miracles. With the maindeck in tact, and then splash bloodghasts, it may bring in the usefulness of the young pyros without going to red. Lets be honest. DIscard is much better as a combo stopper.

...
3 gitaxin probe
...
4 cunning wish
...
4 thoughtseize
...
1 boseiju
1 ancient tomb
...

This is absolutely unplayable.

- There is no way to squeeze more value out of a 2nd Cunning Wish after you have drawn your first.

- Noxious Revival is kind of shabby when you already have 9 cards in your deck that leech on your lifetotal

- Swan Song sucks. Period. Especially when you mind how much lifeloss there already is in the maindeck.

- I am a huge advocate of Thoughtseize, but I would never abandon Spell Pierce or Flusterstorms for them as they are still a tadbit more flexible (and most important: blue).

- Your list basically plays 14 blue lands plus 5 nonblue whereas any other list always goes with 16 blue lands and two to three (2 City and maybe one Boseiju) nonblues. Only playing 14 blue lands is unacceptable.

[KobeBryan]

This is absolutely unplayable.

- There is no way to squeeze more value out of a 2nd Cunning Wish after you have drawn your first.

- Noxious Revival is kind of shabby when you already have 9 cards in your deck that leech on your lifetotal

- Swan Song sucks. Period. Especially when you mind how much lifeloss there already is in the maindeck.

- I am a huge advocate of Thoughtseize, but I would never abandon Spell Pierce or Flusterstorms for them as they are still a tadbit more flexible (and most important: blue).

- Your list basically plays 14 blue lands plus 5 nonblue whereas any other list always goes with 16 blue lands and two to three (2 City and maybe one Boseiju) nonblues. Only playing 14 blue lands is unacceptable.

Show me ur list. This is a port from my ur version

[Adan]

Show me ur list. This is a port from my ur version

At this point you can easily extrapolate my list from the information that is out there. But first, you should fix your own list.

[KobeBryan]

At this point you can easily extrapolate my list from the information that is out there. But first, you should fix your own list.

I think i'll just keep my playset of seas in my BUG deck and play the UR version

I went to a 3-2 finish at a 40 man tourney. These are my impressions

Deck list

Lands
1 boseiju
2 volcanic island
7 fetches
2 crystal vein (Cheap)
1 ancient tomb
6 Islands

4 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
3 Spell Pierce
4 Omniscience
4 show and tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Gitx Probe
2 Emmy
3 Dig Through Time
1 split decision

Sideboard
3 young pyro
1 pyroclasm
2 sudden shock
1 fireminds foresight
1 trickbind
1 release the ants
1 wipe away
1 emradami's call
2 pyroblast
1 dig through time
1 flusterstorm

Match 1 - Miracles

Game 1 - He locks me out with counter balance top with a 3 on top.

Game 2 - I boarded out 3 show and tells 2 probes 1 spell pierce. In - 3 young pyros, 2 pyroblast, 1 sudden shock then went to work with the pyromancers. I did the duplication on the split decision on a dig through time for 4 cards in hand at end of his turn. it was sweet.

Game 3 - Turn 3 boseiju with show and tell. Dropped Omni, he dropped a land. Then just comboed off with the Release the ants with Firemind's foresight and split decision combo.


Match 2 - Merfolk (dunno). Out - 3 probes In - 2 pyroblast, 1 wipeaway

Game 1 - He swarms me

Game 2 - I dazes my first show and tell. I wanted to bait the counter since i peaked in his hand. I had another show in my hand. Then the following turn, i go with release the ants

Game 3 - I was facing lethal at 9 damage. I wipeaway his merrow reejery (dunno), then took 7. On my turn, I go off with Show, Omni, and then Emmy. It was like turn 4.


Match 3 - Jund

Game 1 - Turn 2 combo

Game 2 - He tried to hymn me on turn 3. I spell pierce it. He then Pyroblasts, I force the hymn. Turn 4 Release the Ants combo. He couldn't do much.


Match 4 - Merfolk (Dunno)

Game 1 - Swarm

Game 2 - Counter and Swarm.


Match 5 - Mirror with Burning wish. Out 3 show and tell, 2 spell pierce and another. In 3 Young Pyros, 2 pyroblast, dig through time

game 1 - he cantrips better than I do, he got more instants. Goes off on emmy and I scoop.

Game 2 - This was a drawn out match. I took him down to 2 life. I had 6 lands out with a boseiju. I wanted to dig with on his EOT, get cunning wish, then shoot him with sudden shock. but he goes off. He was running lots of sideboard hate with thoughtseize, cabal therapy. He also froze me out with his one of defense grid.


My impressions - Lots of miracles in the meta. The two merfolk lists were on the top tables. I think merfolk is not a bad choice at this point. Just pack some artifact removals against the typical stoneblade matchups. They should splash a trop and then get grip from the side. I was not too happy with the spell pierce. I wanted some more hard counters since they are able to pay the mana most of the time. I wanted more hard counters. Life loss was not really an issue. Swan Song, Dispel, envelop may work.

[TraxDaMax]

How many matches have you won against good RUG Delver players without sticking Boseiju (if they resolve a turn 1 threat)?
Only Delver is a turn 1 threat. I tested the matchup (well, was a gpt this sunday with another sideboardgame for testing)with 1 Boseiju side. Boarded it in and never saw it but still won the first game and 2 out of three sideboard games. The game I lost I stumble on mana and mulled to 6.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9195 met Tapatalk

[famdoola]

just leave this thread. Seriously.



When i was grinding a few sideevents at gp utrecht, i played a match against esperblade and we both looked at each others hands (probe & thoughtseize). He did not cast his dig through time because i had split decision in hand, and he knew when he casted his dtt, he would just bring me back into the game because i'd copy his dtt and then counter it.
And in another game it doubled as an additional counterspell to punch through my show and tell. In a rather absurd match on cockatrice, it happened that someone hardcasted a force of will on my show and tell with boseiju. I copied show and tell with split decision and won nevertheless.

On a sidenote, the hymn to tourach scenario is rather interesting. With split decision, you could - depending on the boardstate and handcards - also announce that you'd like to counter it instead. Then it will be the opponent's choice whether you trade 3 for 3 or 1 for 1. This could definitely make a difference, especially against a deck like jund.

lol

[KobeBryan]

can you explain the difference? Not familiar with the advantages/disadvantages of each, aside from the terrible art on Split decision haha

Price , one colorless, can counter, can copy.

[famdoola]

Price , one colorless, can counter, can copy.

Thanks man!

i was away from the game for awhile and the Conspiracy cards were confusing to me, i honestly didnt even know they printed a Blue fork (twincast) until i posted my winning list with it a month or whatever ago, and then i saw Split decision as 1U and its definitely better, but apparently I cant make a joke about not wanting to play it because of its art. :rolleyes:

[cvk]

Maybe these have been answered already, but I did not find it (if so, please let me know the post #s):

With an UR splash, how to you typically sideboard against common other decks and what main deck cards do you take out?

In what situation do you use Through the Breach?

In general, regardless of mono U, UR, UB; when do you generally mulligan? I guess, keeping a hand with a single Island/fetch land and
sufficient can trips is fine?

Thank you!

Christian

[GoblinZ]

Maybe these have been answered already, but I did not find it (if so, please let me know the post #s):

With an UR splash, how to you typically sideboard against common other decks and what main deck cards do you take out?

In what situation do you use Through the Breach?

In general, regardless of mono U, UR, UB; when do you generally mulligan? I guess, keeping a hand with a single Island/fetch land and
sufficient can trips is fine?

Thank you!

Christian

through the breach is a solid wish target, and can be wished in any slow mu or when your opponent's meddling mage names SNT.

[Macky984]

I've been playing Omni for quite some time now.... I feel that the best card in the deck is Dig Through Time...

That being said... What is everyone's thought on Lotus Petal???? It's basically 2 mana for Dig...

Thoughts?

[Cave]

I've been playing Omni for quite some time now.... I feel that the best card in the deck is Dig Through Time...

That being said... What is everyone's thought on Lotus Petal???? It's basically 2 mana for Dig...

Thoughts?

This deck is built around the concept of consistancy.
Our combo is only 4+4 cards, and that's what makes Omniscience beautiful: you can literally stuff the rest with cantrips and tutors so it runs really smooth.
With this concept in mind, remember that sometimes finding both pieces can take several turns (2-4 on average).
Therefore, lotus petal is a contradiction:
-why would you run petal to cast your combo faster when you probably don't have snt+omni in hand at t1-t2?
-why would you run petal when, at the moment you're ready to drop SnT, you'll probably already have 3-4 mana on the table, just from lands?
The only case in your favour is when you already have full combo in hand during the early game, but not enough mana to win that turn, and I promise you, that case is kinda rare.

Lotus petal fits a lot better in a SnShow-type shell, where you have not only 8 but 16 combo pieces, and chances are you are ready to win with just 1-2 cantrips, so you need petal to faceroll them 1 turn faster.

For me it's a huge no, and I wouldn't cut anything for petals, you need every cantrip you can run.

[Curtis Dittmar]

Had some fun at my fnm with Carpet of Flowers and Mistcutter Hydra (3/4) out of the board. 1 Trop main 1 side.

Carpet turned out to be really good.

BUG Delver rd 1- loss

Loose the first game

Game 2 My 2 4/4 Hydra's get there

Game 3 Hydra pressured him a bit and He couldn't answer my 2nd Carpet. The 2nd Carpet lets me hard cast an Omniscience,leaving me a turn to top a win, unfortunately it was an Ancient Tomb :( Nice to know the idea worked though.

Round 2 UR Delver-win

Carpet of Flowers shined here as well, nothing to crazy but lets me dodge potential Dazes.

Smashed Goblins and Death/ Taxes in the last 2 rounds.

[Ertai87]

Hey guys, a couple questions:

1) What is our plan against decks which run Extirpate? Like, we can just say "kill them", but if they resolve a Hymn or Thoughtseize and take Show, and then Extirpate it, do we just lose, or is there a plan for that that I'm missing?

2) I saw a UB version with Cabal Therapies a while back. Has anyone seen that and know what's in it?

[KobeBryan]

if you don't run the burning wish version, you scoop.

the cabal therapy is the burning wish version.

[GoblinZ]

Hey guys, a couple questions:

1) What is our plan against decks which run Extirpate? Like, we can just say "kill them", but if they resolve a Hymn or Thoughtseize and take Show, and then Extirpate it, do we just lose, or is there a plan for that that I'm missing?

2) I saw a UB version with Cabal Therapies a while back. Has anyone seen that and know what's in it?

1) Dream hall could be an alternate kill but the card itself is crappy imo. There is also some possibility that you can kill with Wish into Through the Breach, but it is still very hard without SnT.

[Bobmans]

Hey guys, a couple questions:

1) What is our plan against decks which run Extirpate? Like, we can just say "kill them", but if they resolve a Hymn or Thoughtseize and take Show, and then Extirpate it, do we just lose, or is there a plan for that that I'm missing?

2) I saw a UB version with Cabal Therapies a while back. Has anyone seen that and know what's in it?

1) Brainstorm, Spell Pierce, Force of Will, Misdirection and prevent the discard. If not, bite the bullet. having an alternative win like Dream Halls or Through the Breach is ok.

2)Gitaxian Probe + Cabal Therapy. Also Massacre on the side.

Mono blue is all this deck needs, i'll be picking this up if DTT gets the ban. Now the deck lost its beauty.

[Chronatog]

This guy plays flickerwisp on a response to show and tell omni.

I cunning wish in response. Get FF. FF gets me another cunning wish, a twincast, and a brainstorm. I then use cunning for ants, then twincast for cunning, getting call. I then brainstorm the emmy to the top for the win.

I don't know if impulse would have gotten me there. Never had a chance to see how deep i would have dug.

I played today with Twincast in my deck and the effect from resolving Cunning Wish for FF was amazing. Yes, Impulse does not provide such strong effect.

[kuroko16]

no one try Rending Volley in sideboard ( UR Version ) ?

[Goosen]

Through the Breach is a must in the SB big part why play the red splash. Very good in mirror and if they remove your SnT, can be use otherwise aswell ofc if u have cunning and Emrakul in your hand but no SnT.

What can Rending Volley do that Lightning Bolt dont take care of? No point with "cant be countered". Lightning Bolt can be good to finish up some games aswell, for example if u have attacked with emrakul using Through the Breach.

[Macky984]

no one try Rending Volley in sideboard ( UR Version ) ?

For what though? Meddling Mage?

[GoblinZ]

For what though? Meddling Mage?

It seems good because it hits delver, canonist, teeg, thalia, meddling mage.

Just another option other than lightning bolt and sudden shock.

[KobeBryan]

The biggest hinderance to hate bears is activated abilities...not counters.

sudden shock stops both.

[Lans89]

Yeah, last time against maverick I dropped an Omniscience while he had a Quasali Pridemage and mana open. I played Sudden Shock after and even watched him staring at his Mother of Ruins :P

[Goosen]

Yeah, last time against maverick I dropped an Omniscience while he had a Quasali Pridemage and mana open. I played Sudden Shock after and even watched him staring at his Mother of Ruins :P

Sounds like it could have been a play mistake first from you then from him. Is likely nothing to do with Sudden Shock.

[Bobmans]

Sounds like it could have been a play mistake first from you then from him. Is likely nothing to do with Sudden Shock.
How so?

[kuroko16]

great article for GP

http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/philipp-sch%C3%B6negger/legacy-lessons-top-6-decks-top-6-recommendations

[Lans89]

Sounds like it could have been a play mistake first from you then from him. Is likely nothing to do with Sudden Shock.

Explain then?

I couldn't do much wrong there. 2 tapped Island because of the Choke he played, one untapped and a City of Traitors draw from the top (knew that after a ponder last turn). I believe it was that same game with the Quasali situation, but not 100% sure and it doesn't really matter. So yeah, I go for it, having Sudden Shock planned, nothing wrong there. Can't do much with Choke in play and a very decent clock. My opponent, Fabian Görzgen (known for some great Punishing Maverick results), could have tapped Mother for pro red in response to Show and tell, but why? I only showed Island if I'm correct. He could fear Wipe Away, what should have been correct in that situation, and give pro blue to the Pridemage, but that wouldn't matter. Just to clear things up already :)

[Whitefaces]

Explain then?

I couldn't do much wrong there. 2 tapped Island because of the Choke he played, one untapped and a City of Traitors draw from the top (knew that after a ponder last turn). I believe it was that same game with the Quasali situation, but not 100% sure and it doesn't really matter. So yeah, I go for it, having Sudden Shock planned, nothing wrong there. Can't do much with Choke in play and a very decent clock. My opponent, Fabian Görzgen (known for some great Punishing Maverick results), could have tapped Mother for pro red in response to Show and tell, but why? I only showed Island if I'm correct. He could fear Wipe Away, what should have been correct in that situation, and give pro blue to the Pridemage, but that wouldn't matter. Just to clear things up already :)

Nothing wrong at all, Goosen is mistaken.

[Goosen]

Explain then?

I couldn't do much wrong there. 2 tapped Island because of the Choke he played, one untapped and a City of Traitors draw from the top (knew that after a ponder last turn). I believe it was that same game with the Quasali situation, but not 100% sure and it doesn't really matter. So yeah, I go for it, having Sudden Shock planned, nothing wrong there. Can't do much with Choke in play and a very decent clock. My opponent, Fabian Görzgen (known for some great Punishing Maverick results), could have tapped Mother for pro red in response to Show and tell, but why? I only showed Island if I'm correct. He could fear Wipe Away, what should have been correct in that situation, and give pro blue to the Pridemage, but that wouldn't matter. Just to clear things up already :)

To be clear I wrote sounds like a play mistake. With a window open that it wasnt. So u have sb in one off Sudden Shock and natural draw it? What did you have more in your hand?

[Lans89]

To be clear I wrote sounds like a play mistake. With a window open that it wasnt. So u have sb in one off Sudden Shock and natural draw it? What did you have more in your hand?

2 Sudden Shocks postboard. Guess I was not able to go off at instant speed.

But I was just pointing out that/why Sudden Shock is better than the blue/white uncounterable 4 damage 'bolt' and in a lot of situations also bolt.

[Goosen]

2 Sudden Shocks postboard. Guess I was not able to go off at instant speed.

But I was just pointing out that/why Sudden Shock is better than the blue/white uncounterable 4 damage 'bolt' and in a lot of situations also bolt.

I was mostly thinking as one-off sb. Then the split second dont matter. Anyway the problem is that the card often is not necessary, in your example u could have alot of combinations of cards that would win aswell or just emrakul maybe. And if u only have for example cunning wish, right play is to wait and pass the turn. Or ponder and dig/cunning just start off with ponder. If u find something just keep playing and if it was blank just pass the turn. That Sudden Shock could have been alot of other cards that would do the trick. I dont like sb in red removal spell against wasteland decks anyway, I wanna keep it Basic.

[Macky984]

I tried Bolt and Sudden Shock... Seems like a waste of a slot since we already have Wipe Away

[GoblinZ]

I tried Bolt and Sudden Shock... Seems like a waste of a slot since we already have Wipe Away

I don't know in what match-up you tried bolt and sudden shock and consider them as waste of slots...maybe u can try again against ur delver or stoneblade with multiple hatebears...

[Lans89]

ANT went to 1 life with ad nauseam and passed the turn. I took mine and only had Cunning wish and 3 Island + a fetch for Volcanic. Wish I had Bolt in my sideboard at that point :'(! But yeah.. I still prefer Sudden Shock I think, or maybe I should split?

Who is still playing Noxious Revival? I barely use it.. I could cut it or a Cage or Grid, hmm..

Omnitell, Grixis Control and Deathblade to Lille! Hope I'm not still in doubt after the last chance trials ^^

[Whitefaces]

I don't know in what match-up you tried bolt and sudden shock and consider them as waste of slots...maybe u can try again against ur delver or stoneblade with multiple hatebears...

Yeah, when you're facing down Meddling Mage and Canonist you'll be glad to have them.

[Poron]

that's why Volcanic Fallout is your best friend there.

as well as Massacre in the Ub version

[famdoola]

that's why Volcanic Fallout is your best friend there.

as well as Massacre in the Ub version

anybody got an updated UB list? i built one myself and love massacre/LDV in it but still tweaking SB options and getting the feel of the deck down, as far as pacing goes

[KobeBryan]

anybody got an updated UB list? i built one myself and love massacre/LDV in it but still tweaking SB options and getting the feel of the deck down, as far as pacing goes

The two slot really should be split decision

[famdoola]

The two slot really should be split decision

while i was definitely flying the flag of twincast/split decision for mono U , after trying out LDV in the black list, its just too goddamn powerful not to put in,plus the amount of removal black offers kinda negates the double wishing advantage in the monoU build, but in turn, means going back to release the ants as 2nd kill -- which isn't really a bad thing at all IMO. right now i'm testing it with thoughtseizes, but the idea of cabal therapys is intriguing.

[Quecks]

Hello guys :D,
So quick question from a not very experienced player: why play pyromancer in the board? I mean i do get the point that they seem neat against the miracle and the mirror mu but here is how i see it:
So vs. Miracles this will only work if they did not see the volcanics because otherwise they will leave in removal, i.e. Terminus leaving us with a MUCH weaker gameplan. Should we need to go into game 3,assuming it worked game 2 the same rules apply. Also since miracles is not really a deck that puts on pressure early, such a gameplan does not feel as viable as the boseiju approach. Since miracles cannot handle boseiju at all it seems much more likely to boseiju out the SnT and then maybe even wait until the next turn to deal with whatever they deploy against it. This only fails if we a. Are so low that a canonist+ snap or something swing would kill us anyways or they manage to follow the canonist with an eot entreat or they have venser with cmc 3 on top for the cb which they also require in that scenario. Although those scenarios seem realistic, i had all of them happen to me at least twice, it still feels better than relying on some 2/1 dudes and his army of 1/1s to do the trick especially as a miracle player might have a terminus left regardless,depending on the sideboard, as it handles SnT
Into Emrakul, not that that is too likely but fighting against venser +cb/top with cmc 3 on top seems equally likely unless its like 10 turns in.
In the mirror the merit seems a lot more appearent and much more juicy overall, but even in the mirror its still very possible to combo off. Once again boseiju feels like the gamechanger here. Resolving a SnT is likely to be the hardest part anyways. Should that resolve we could use the fact that we have priority to cast wish now using the boseiju to find the wipe away,making our opponent fairly powerless at that point of the game, of course he could try to bounce our omniscience himself. in the mirror i feel like it boils down to the number of wishes on the combo turn and who has the best protection (boseiju being the gamechanger here imo). However if the other player has the better protection anyways, the pyromancer plan feels like it will fail as well while boseiju forces the other player to have wishes of his own at the ready whereas the pyromancer really turns it into a cantripcontest,which leaving basic cantrip skills aside relies on luck more than anything else. I do run volcanics to so i have access to sudden shock and electrickery and with boseiju it does not feel like my opponent can do much about that. Of course i will take a decent bit of damage, but unless i am low enough for him to bolt me or he finds the other pyromancer(and manages to resolve him),given that he runs 2... Even with 3 its not that easy... Having 10 life is as good as 20. Since i am looking to go to GP Lille i would to hear your opinion on this before i decide whether to run pyros or not.

Edit: also what about defense grid?

[funnywille]

Hmm, so I went back and read the primer. I was intrigued by the suggestion that you should be on the draw against a blind opponent. I admit I haven't read about 80 of the pages in this thread, so I might have missed the discussion. Has anyone else tried that out? How does that work out? The reports I read are always Game 1 - On the play if they won the die roll...

[AsmodeusDM]

So in a recent couple of winning/Top16 lists; CVM ( a big proponent of OmniTell) has been:

- Cutting a land from the main to play Intuition.

- Cutting Trickbind from the side to play Fact or Fiction.


I must admit I'm a little confused as to the value of these spells; both seem overly expensive for what they do. 3 and 4 mana is a lot.

I played in our Sunday legacy tourney yesterday with the Intuition mainboard; but found it to be the first card I cut each game 2 since it just seemed so replaceable. I believe I Intuitioned once EOT for 3 Show and Tells so that I could complete the combo; but honestly between 16 cantrips and dig through time I usually don't have any problems assembling enough pieces to go off.

[Bobmans]

So in a recent couple of winning/Top16 lists; CVM ( a big proponent of OmniTell) has been:

- Cutting a land from the main to play Intuition.

- Cutting Trickbind from the side to play Fact or Fiction.


I must admit I'm a little confused as to the value of these spells; both seem overly expensive for what they do. 3 and 4 mana is a lot.

I played in our Sunday legacy tourney yesterday with the Intuition mainboard; but found it to be the first card I cut each game 2 since it just seemed so replaceable. I believe I Intuitioned once EOT for 3 Show and Tells so that I could complete the combo; but honestly between 16 cantrips and dig through time I usually don't have any problems assembling enough pieces to go off.
Intuition is solid. Pre combo it fetches a combo piece (end of opponents turn) and post combo it finds the finisher. However it can be weak versus Surgical Extraction or Extirpate (especially the latter).

Cutting Trickbind from the board seems like an error. Why that choice? The second question is, how good has the Fact of Faction been in that list?

[AsmodeusDM]

FoF to me seems like something you'd use strictly as a wishboard target? i.e. you've got Omniscience in play; a Cunning wish... but not much else action; wish for FoF and hit a bunch of castable spells and your opponent has to give you some. But wouldn't Firemind's foresight be just as good; if not better here (ie. BS, Impulse, another Wish (or Intuition)) ?



Intuition is solid. Pre combo it fetches a combo piece (end of opponents turn) and post combo it finds the finisher. However it can be weak versus Surgical Extraction or Extirpate (especially the latter).

Cutting Trickbind from the board seems like an error. Why that choice? The second question is, how good has the Fact of Faction been in that list?

[GoblinZ]

I played in our Sunday legacy tourney yesterday with the Intuition mainboard; but found it to be the first card I cut each game 2 since it just seemed so replaceable. I believe I Intuitioned once EOT for 3 Show and Tells so that I could complete the combo; but honestly between 16 cantrips and dig through time I usually don't have any problems assembling enough pieces to go off.

At least in my meta, intuition is too slow to have a cut. And if I played it, I must side it out frequently to dodge auto-lose for their surgical extraction.

[famdoola]

FoF to me seems like something you'd use strictly as a wishboard target? i.e. you've got Omniscience in play; a Cunning wish... but not much else action; wish for FoF and hit a bunch of castable spells and your opponent has to give you some. But wouldn't Firemind's foresight be just as good; if not better here (ie. BS, Impulse, another Wish (or Intuition)) ?

and on that note, i feel like Gifts Ungiven is better than Fact or Fiction anyway

[kuroko16]

I Heard some voice about banning DTT (07/13/15). I't s a possibility or just a rumor? because it would be devastating for Omnitell :cry:

[Tee]

Hi Omnitell players,

Won the GP Singapore Legacy challenge(Side Event) on day 1 comprises of 38 players in a 5-round swiss (No top8 playoff)!

Decklist:

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Dig thru Time
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Cunning Wish
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Emrakul
1 Flusterstorm
1 Impulse

4 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Ancient Tomb
2 City Of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters all
9 Fetchlands

SB:
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Thru The Breach
1 Fireman's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroclasm
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters all
1 Rushing River
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call

Round1 - Manaless Dredge. (2-0)
Had a good hand with SnT and Omniscience in Opening hand but have to be wary of cabal Therapy. Go off in turn 3 with Cunning wish trickbinding his Balustrade Spy trigger in response. Game 2 I missed a land drop in in turn 3 but had 2 mana open and 4 cards in graveyard and 8 cards in hand. I deliberated between casting Young Pyromancer on my turn or discarding it and having a chance to force a therapy on his turn and dig thru time in his turn. On his turn 3 (he choose to play cos of dredge), he dredged out 2 cabal therapy and 3 bridge from below!:eek: and proceed to cast 2 cabal therapy, I force the first one, dig thru time the 2nd in response, managed to find a land and a force of will and go off in my next turn. :)

Round 2 - Grixis Delver (2-0)
Won the crucial counter war in turn 3 with 2 island and a sol land(SnT met with an daze, I pierce the daze, opponent forced and I forced back). Game 2, he had an delver and a young pyromancer in his first two turns but I managed to REB his flipper delver and bolt his young pyro. I managed to cast an young pyromancer the next time and that proved immense as I won the game with the elemental beat downs as the game became grindy as I lose the subsequent counterwars. He had Tasigur but couldn't attack.

Round 3 - Miracles (2-1)
I casted Show and tell in turn 3, and he brainstorm in response and was tapped out, As I had 2 force of wills and Omniscience,dig thru time and Emrakul, I forced his brainstorm as I sensed that he was digging for his force of will, turned out that he was baiting my FoW with his brainstorm and he proceeded to Force my Force, I have to thus FoW back his Fow and thus pitched my Omniscience and Dig Thru Time, Show and Tell resolved to put an Emrakul into play. Lo and Behold! he top decked a terminus and I lose the game from there. Game 2, I won the game with a resolved Show and tell via Boesiju. Game 3, Opponent had to mull to 5 and only had a Force Of Will when I probed him in turn3. I had to admit I had exceptionally good Hands this round. My opening for all 3 rounds had SnT, Omniscience, an Island and a Sol land.

Round 4 - Miracles (2-0)
Had the Nuts Opening hand with a SnT, Omniscience, a fetched land, city of traitors, Fow, Dig Thru Time, Brainstorm. Go off in turn 2 and Opponent had nothing except plows and terminus. Game 2 I took a risky move in turn 3 when I SnT after probing him with only a FoW backup, Opponent had 3 untapped lands, a top in play but with only a Vendilon Clique and a Force of Will in hand. If He cliqued me in response to my SnT and top decked another blue card from his top I will lose the counter war. Turned out that he forced my SnT pitching Clique. I then proceed to combo off.

Finals - Miracles (2-1)
I was up against a friend who frequents weekly legacy event at a store and thus we are both familiar with each other variant and sideboard. Game 1 was unfortunate for my friend as he misses land drops and I pierced his cantrips to prevent him from drawing land. Game 2, He misses the 3rd land drop and past turn. Before that, I had probed his hand and he only had a counter spell and a counterbalance. I had a FoW & a flusterstorm in hand and deliberated whether I should go off in my 3rd turn with FoW or wait for a 4th land for a safer approach, it was a risk as I am not sure whether I had the 4th land as well. I took and plunge and go off, turned out that he had drew the FoW in his turn and I lost the game via Countertop lock. Game 3, My opening hand had no combo pieces but with Young Pyromancer, REBs, Bolt and cantrips. My Young Pyromancer was dealing damage to him, He casted pyroclasm in turn 5, my only answer was a brainstorm in response and hoped for a flusterstorm. The flusterstorm turned out to be the 3rd card drawn from brainstorm! I would have lost the game as he would have established the countertop next turn. He scooped. We discussed the game after the finals and he was searching for his monastery mentor. He wanted to cast pyroclasm in his 2nd or 3rd turn but decided to hold the mana up for the SnT counterwar. I told him that I don't even have the combo pieces except a dig thru time. I heaved a sigh of relief after that!

The meta was full of Omnitell and Miracles players, even most of the Japanese, European and Australia players played Omnitell and Miracles, with only 1-2 reanimator, SneakShow and Storm players. Young Pyromancer and boseiju was huge for me and buy me a lot of time against delver decks and possibly gofy decks and I probably only consider not boarding them in against Merfolk or against decks with lots of flyers (E.g. food chain). I think Bolts, REBs , Pyroclasm and Rushing River are important against hatebears like Thalia, Meddling Mages and Ehtersworn Canolist and Arcane Laboratory. Going forward, I am considering playing a 3rd Volcanic Island over a fetch land in lieu of the heavy reliance on red after board. I guess one of the most tricky part is whether to board in Young Pyromancer to buy time for assembling the combo pieces or leave them out to go all in on combo on the draw against aggressive decks.

Thanks!

[Norm]

Round 2 - Grixis Delver (2-0)
Won the crucial counter war in turn 3 with 2 island and a sol land(SnT met with an daze, I pierce the daze, opponent forced and I forced back). Game 2, he had an delver and a young pyromancer in his first two turns but I managed to REB his flipper delver and bolt his young pyro. I managed to cast an young pyromancer the next time and that proved immense as I won the game with the elemental beat downs as the game became grindy as I lose the subsequent counterwars. He had Tasigur but couldn't attack.


Am I reading this part correctly?

[Noctalor]

(SnT met with an daze, I pierce the daze).

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2727748211/c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg

[GoblinZ]

Am I reading this part correctly?

There is a joke among my friend: spell pierce your daze, then you mana leak my spell pierce:rolleyes:

[Bobmans]

I Heard some voice about banning DTT (07/13/15). I't s a possibility or just a rumor? because it would be devastating for Omnitell :cry:
I hope the rumor is true. It would not destroy OmniTell. It would push it back to its true form and beauty. Mono U Dream Halls.

[kuroko16]

I hope the rumor is true. It would not destroy OmniTell. It would push it back to its true form and beauty. Mono U Dream Halls.


you play mono u omni in this moment ?

[Tee]

There is a joke among my friend: spell pierce your daze, then you mana leak my spell pierce:rolleyes:

Lol! My bad, I remembered wrongly, it was a REB, not Daze.

[Bobmans]

you play mono u omni in this moment ?
I stopped playing it in november/december after DTT gained critical mass.

[Whitefaces]

Lol! My bad, I remembered wrongly, it was a REB, not Daze.

Even if it was Daze, I'll admit I've pierced/somethinged a Daze before...you immediately realize it after you cast the spell and feel pretty stupid :laugh:

Doing it a second time is the sin!

[Norm]

I hope the rumor is true. It would not destroy OmniTell. It would push it back to its true form and beauty. Mono U Dream Halls.

This deck isn't competitive without DTT.

[Bobmans]

This deck isn't competitive without DTT.
HAHAHA whatever...

[Lans89]

This deck isn't competitive without DTT.

It won several tournaments during the pre-cruise era, including BoM. A Meta without cruise AND dtt wouldn't be much different than it was at the time. Now DTT pushed the deck to the top and people prepare for it, so we think it would be too weak without DTT.

[Norm]

HAHAHA whatever...

How much experience do you have with the deck in competitive play? I've played SNT strategies for years now and placed in the top 200 (without byes) of GPNJ with Omniscience. There are certainly more experienced pilots than I, but I'd be willing to bet they'll agree on this deck falling from the DTB section if DTT were no longer a card.


It won several tournaments during the pre-cruise era, including BoM. A Meta without cruise AND dtt wouldn't be much different than it was at the time. Now DTT pushed the deck to the top and people prepare for it, so we think it would be too weak without DTT.

The deck had surprise factor, it no longer has this going for it. Strange decks win tournaments on occasion, that won't change.

[Bobmans]

How much experience do you have with the deck in competitive play? I've played SNT strategies for years now and placed in the top 200 (without byes) of GPNJ with Omniscience. There are certainly more experienced pilots than I, but I'd be willing to bet they'll agree on this deck falling from the DTB section if DTT were no longer a card.



The deck had surprise factor, it no longer has this going for it. Strange decks win tournaments on occasion, that won't change.
If i where to play OmniShow the build i was playing last time in november, then i would still be having consistent results. Losing DTT will make people stop playing it. Not because the deck is bad, but they forced to pilot it better. That said, the deck is incredibly powerfull and arguebly (without DTT) still the best combo deck out there. I have been playing OmniShow since the printing of Omniscience (UR Wish, then later EtI/Halls based) and more often then not had T8 finishes. Check out somewhere around post 1078ish. The deck is and will remain competative, making it a DtB will only require for it to be hyped like it is now.

[GoblinZ]

Not because the deck is bad, but they forced to pilot it better. That said, the deck is incredibly powerfull and arguebly (without DTT) still the best combo deck out there.

If DTT got banned, ANT and Sneakshow will be the top combo decks over omnitel for sure.

[Macky984]

I would absolutely HATE to see DTT banned... but if it did. I would just go back to Sneak & Show.

[Togores]

In this deck is the impulse (or whatever other cmc 2 instant) really needed? Also its cool for the combo with fireminds. But its a 100% muss slot to have? Its not the option to play without? Its like you use it and its not more in the deck that means you can firemind only cunning and brainstorm.

Thx

[Macky984]

Yes it's needed for Firemind's. Plus it's another cantrip to add to the list of many. I've hard casted it many times to get a combo piece to win the game.

[Togores]

But you could cast any other of 18276362 cantrips.
But its imposible to win without the impulse? Its just so bad of a card >.<

[Barsoom]

I'm using Split Decision instead of Impulse for some time now, and i must say i'm really happy with it. From copying counterspells to copying wish or dtt it fits wonderfully in the deck.

[Togores]

In a basic list what card would you cut?
2nd emrakul
4th dig, probe, preordain, ponder
3rd wish
Impulse or the like

I wanna a slot for an 19th land.

How many counters you play with split decision? 4 fow 4 soft counters?

Also with split you need to play 4 wishes right?

[GoblinZ]

In a basic list what card would you cut?
2nd emrakul
4th dig, probe, preordain, ponder
3rd wish
Impulse or the like

I wanna a slot for an 19th land.

How many counters you play with split decision? 4 fow 4 soft counters?

Also with split you need to play 4 wishes right?

I am also considering playing split decision over impulse, which I think doesn't matter the number of counters you run.

Also I don't think split decision demands you play 4 wish, you cast Firemind's Foresight to get a cunning wish and split decision to copy the wish for the win. I don't think you can hardcast wish and copy it, for wish itself is already very clunky.

Why play 19 lands? One Boseiju in the main? I remember I saw your list on Tcdecks with 18 lands including two city and one Boseiju. I am a bit curious how it works for you.

If you really want to make room for another land, I assume that cutting a DTT and leaving it in the SB as a wish target may be okay, but I haven't tested it.

[Togores]

Lately the only decks I loose are team america. Wasteland is a hell of a card. And in wanna fit a basic mountain (yes im crazy). But i always disliked the impulse.
Will think everything again. Just the cmc2 cards are absurdly bad and clunky. Also if u draw it and cast it (which happens a lot makes your firemind not so strong).
Just a matter of peference.

[kuroko16]

Lately the only decks I loose are team america. Wasteland is a hell of a card. And in wanna fit a basic mountain (yes im crazy). But i always disliked the impulse.
Will think everything again. Just the cmc2 cards are absurdly bad and clunky. Also if u draw it and cast it (which happens a lot makes your firemind not so strong).
Just a matter of peference.

1 basic mountain 1 volcanic?

[Togores]

2 volcanic 1 mountain
I have also been playing with 3 volcanic (they just wasteland volcanics all time and I wanna the red mana postboard so much.

[kuroko16]

2 volcanic 1 mountain
I have also been playing with 3 volcanic (they just wasteland volcanics all time and I wanna the red mana postboard so much.

main deck alway 18 lands including boseiju?

[Togores]

Now I want:
Mountain
5 island
8 fetch
2 volcanic
2 city
1 boseiju
19

[Macky984]

But you could cast any other of 18276362 cantrips.
But its imposible to win without the impulse? Its just so bad of a card >.<

When you're trying to recover from hand disruption... You need all the cantrips you can get.

[Togores]

Then why not play more impulses? Ifnm you need them so badly?

I dont wanna be rude. Just wanna know all theory in and out.

[Macky984]

It's definitely the worst cantrip in the deck. But it's a necessary evil with Firemind's Foresight. The best part is that it's actually not a dead card if you get it in your opening hand or you draw it... where some of the two drops that go with Firemind's are horrendous when you draw them.

[KobeBryan]

It's definitely the worst cantrip in the deck. But it's a necessary evil with Firemind's Foresight. The best part is that it's actually not a dead card if you get it in your opening hand or you draw it... where some of the two drops that go with Firemind's are horrendous when you draw them.

Not necessary. Twincast/split decision is better

[Macky984]

Not necessary. Twincast/split decision is better

You're kidding right? Those cards can't do anything by themselves. They require help from something else... Where Impulse doesn't.

[emidln]

You're kidding right? Those cards can't do anything by themselves. They require help from something else... Where Impulse doesn't.

Impulse is always replacement level when you resolve it. Often when Split Decision resolves, it's a blowout. If your opponent isn't playing something to Split Decision (Digs of their own, countermagic, brainstorm, discard), and you don't target your own Dig through Time you can cast it as a 1U Impulse off Ponder or Preordain.

[Macky984]

Ok but Split Decision and Twincast both need something else to go off of.... Impulse is fine by itself. So you have a higher potential for a dead card in your hand.

[Macky984]

So what do we think of http://www.mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/daysundoing.jpg

[KobeBryan]

Ok but Split Decision and Twincast both need something else to go off of.... Impulse is fine by itself. So you have a higher potential for a dead card in your hand.

I think the pros outweigh the cons in this one.

There are times when you cunning wish for foresight, you get cunning, impulse, and bs, you don't have enough to finish them off. (cunning getting ANTS, impulse hoping to get emmy)

[Macky984]

I think the pros outweigh the cons in this one.

There are times when you cunning wish for foresight, you get cunning, impulse, and bs, you don't have enough to finish them off. (cunning getting ANTS, impulse hoping to get emmy)

I'm pretty sure you're playing it wrong. Impulse isn't hoping to get Emmy. You cast Foresight. You grab Wish, Impulse and Brainstorm.

First you cast Impulse and you're looking for Emmy, Omniscience or Dig. If you get a Dig and you're playing against a deck with nothing 8CMC or higher in it then you cast brainstorm and put dig on top then wish for Ants and win.

If you're playing against a deck that runs digs or other cards with 8CMC or higher than you cast the dig and look for either another dig, emrakul or omniscience. If you don't hit them then you grab whatever cantrips you can get and keep going while keeping a brainstorm to put an omniscience or emmy on top.

If you fail on the impulse and you still have brainstorm than that is going 7 cards deep to find a piece... That's much better than Twincast or Split Decision can do.

In a Firemind's setup with Twincast... You get to either Twincast your own wish or a brainstorm... Whoopdy Doo? I'd rather go 4 cards deep.

[Barsoom]

That's much better than Twincast or Split Decision can do.
...
I'd rather go 4 cards deep.

I'd rather win.

Impulse + Braistorm can fail, Split Decision not.

You Cunning Wish for Firemind's Foresight and get Cunning Wish, Split Decision, Brainstorm.

Then, Cunning Wish with SD copying it -> get Eladamri's Call and Emrakul -> put Emrakul top with brainstorm -> Get RtA with the original Wish and profit.

[KobeBryan]

I'd rather win.

Impulse + Braistorm can fail, Split Decision not.

You Cunning Wish for Firemind's Foresight and get Cunning Wish, Split Decision, Brainstorm.

Then, Cunning Wish with SD copying it -> get Eladamri's Call and Emrakul -> put Emrakul top with brainstorm -> Get RtA with the original Wish and profit.

Thats what i'm trying to tell him. Impulse has failed before.

Sometimes you also need to Call twice to clear the board of everything. SD does this for you.

[Quecks]

Days undoing does nothing for us really. It reset our hand but also that of our opponent. Since they usually have a board and we dont it will favor them,also seeing as we time walked ourself. During the combo its uncastable as well. Days undoing is only of interest if we A: have a really bad hand(why would we keep that anyways?) or are facing discard to an extent that dtt does not allow us to rebuild properly and even then we have to pray that our opponent did not get further discard in his fresh seven. While the latter scenario actually never occurs and if it does we will propably lose regardless and the other relies on us being unable to mulligan i think it is safe to say that days undoing is unplayable. Even if the quicken package was to fit: we would reset a hand we assembled over the previous turns!

[Karhumies]

So what do we think of http://www.mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/daysundoing.jpg

Not an instant, so F.Foresight and C.Wish both miss it. Ends the turn as sorcery, making us unable to cast Emrakul. Lets the opponent to draw 7, which should probably contain at least FoW, Pierce/Fluster/Spot discard. Screws DTT delve from the shuffle effect and costs more mana than a full delve DTT. Preorder market price seems overinflated. IMO, even Talent of the Telepath seems like a stronger card from the set, which is still much worse than Enter the Infinite, which is not very commonly played at the moment.

[GoblinZ]

I'd rather win.

Impulse + Braistorm can fail, Split Decision not.

You Cunning Wish for Firemind's Foresight and get Cunning Wish, Split Decision, Brainstorm.

Then, Cunning Wish with SD copying it -> get Eladamri's Call and Emrakul -> put Emrakul top with brainstorm -> Get RtA with the original Wish and profit.

Just curious, how often you lose the game after resolving a Firemind's Foresight?

[GoblinZ]

I'd rather win.

Impulse + Braistorm can fail, Split Decision not.

You Cunning Wish for Firemind's Foresight and get Cunning Wish, Split Decision, Brainstorm.

Then, Cunning Wish with SD copying it -> get Eladamri's Call and Emrakul -> put Emrakul top with brainstorm -> Get RtA with the original Wish and profit.

Just curious, how often do you lose the game after resolving a Firemind's Foresight?

[mr_tolkien]

Hello everybody !

I'm new to the deck and training for Lille, and I have a question. I am playing Shouta's version from GP Kyoto at the moment (18 lands, 4 Pierce, 1 Impluse as the 2 slot).

Here is the situation :
- I was playing against Miracles, and he had CB+top but no mana up. I cast S&T, and the CB trigger resolves, showing Pyroblast.
- S&T resolves (we had already fought on my Young Peezie the previous turn), and I put Omniscience in play while he puts Venser. My hand at that point was Brainstorm, 2 Lands, Wish.

I therefore had to kill him at instant speed through a 1 on top of his deck. I went Wish -> Foresight -> Brainstorm + Impulse + Wish, and realized I was in a pinch. With the 2nd wish, I got the split second bounce, and decided I'd try to cantrip my way to victory once I bounced his CB. Unfortunately, it didn't work as I didn't find a DTT or anything similar. With Shouta's list, is there a better play ? Or should I just move on to Split Decision to copy the Wish ?

Thanks a lot for your help !

[Baum]

I don't think there was a better line without Split Decision.
Besides: It's highly unlikely to kill a Miracles Player via Release the Ants if the have a Counterbalance out. By now, most players know that they can scry 1 after each clash, so there is a high chance for them to find a CMC 2.

[Karhumies]

Hello everybody !

I'm new to the deck and training for Lille, and I have a question. I am playing Shouta's version
...
I therefore had to kill him at instant speed through a 1 on top of his deck. I went Wish -> Foresight -> Brainstorm + Impulse + Wish, and realized I was in a pinch.

Not sure about the opponent's life total and number of permanents, but one potential line of play was with the Impulse to hit Emrakul in top 4, C.Wish for Through the Breach to take out the top + balance + venser in combat after letting venser bounce resolve, then start digging with the Brainstorm post combat for C.Wish into Lightning Bolt for lethal.

[mr_tolkien]

Not sure about the opponent's life total and number of permanents, but one potential line of play was with the Impulse to hit Emrakul in top 4, C.Wish for Through the Breach to take out the top + balance + venser in combat after letting venser bounce resolve, then start digging with the Brainstorm post combat for C.Wish into Lightning Bolt for lethal.

I'd rather like a line of play that wins 100% of the time if possible than hope I have one of my two emmy in the top 4 :p Going for the bounce lets me see 8 cards deep with double brain + impulse, and I think the chance of hitting something relevant in that (DTT mainly) is pretty big.

With Split, I think I can go Wish -> Foresight -> Brainstorm, Split, Wish -> Double wish, get Eladamri's call + Through the Breach, attack for 15 and handle his CB + have 2 Brainstorm in hand. It's not a 100% win, but it's as close as it gets.

[Whitefaces]

Hello everybody !

I'm new to the deck and training for Lille, and I have a question. I am playing Shouta's version from GP Kyoto at the moment (18 lands, 4 Pierce, 1 Impluse as the 2 slot).

Here is the situation :
- I was playing against Miracles, and he had CB+top but no mana up. I cast S&T, and the CB trigger resolves, showing Pyroblast.
- S&T resolves (we had already fought on my Young Peezie the previous turn), and I put Omniscience in play while he puts Venser. My hand at that point was Brainstorm, 2 Lands, Wish.

I therefore had to kill him at instant speed through a 1 on top of his deck. I went Wish -> Foresight -> Brainstorm + Impulse + Wish, and realized I was in a pinch. With the 2nd wish, I got the split second bounce, and decided I'd try to cantrip my way to victory once I bounced his CB. Unfortunately, it didn't work as I didn't find a DTT or anything similar. With Shouta's list, is there a better play ? Or should I just move on to Split Decision to copy the Wish ?

Thanks a lot for your help !

It's situations like this that I like a Trickbind in the SB for.

[Karhumies]

It's situations like this that I like a Trickbind in the SB for.

With Trickbind in the 75, you could have sideboarded that or Eladamri's Call in (since Young Pyro was mentioned, should be post sb). F.Foresight into Brainstorm, Trickbind/Eladamri's, C.Wish. C.Wish for Trickbind/Eladamri's, Eladamri's for Emmy, Trickbind Venser trigger.

[Brentane]

There is a lot of talk in Legacy forums that DTT could be banned coming Origins. My question is, will this kill the deck? At the moment, it is my only blue deck and I couldn't imagine playing anything else that was blue-based. It's just such a fun deck.

[kuroko16]

There is a lot of talk in Legacy forums that DTT could be banned coming Origins. My question is, will this kill the deck? At the moment, it is my only blue deck and I couldn't imagine playing anything else that was blue-based. It's just such a fun deck.



probably becom what tier 2?

:maybe we came back to play Dream Halls end Enter the Infinite :cry: i prefer quit over play Dream Halls again.


maybe they Ban Sensei and not DTT :cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Ragdoll]

probably becom what tier 2?

:maybe we came back to play Dream Halls end Enter the Infinite :cry: i prefer quit over play Dream Halls again.


maybe they Ban Sensei and not DTT :cool::cool::cool::cool:

Oh c'mon, don't be so dramatic :tongue: halls started to suck because they printed this whole delve thing - it wasn't that hard before :smile:

About ban of sensei - true, I won't cry :cool::cool:

[emidln]

I'm still not actually convinced that DTT+Probe without Dream Halls is better than EtI+DTT-Probe with Dream Halls. Without EtI, we have a much more difficult time beating Ethersworn Canonist (we must have Emrakul, a Wipe Away, or Wish+2nd business spell in hand). Further, we never fizzled before. I've been left in situations numerous times where I dig into cantrips that leave me with nothing. From playing a bunch of games, I'm not sure that we're actually above 80% to win the game when we combo, which is a pretty high rate of failure. Without Dream Halls, we have to resort to garbage like Young Pyromancer to beat the mirror, and are left with far fewer business spells in the face of discard from Grixis and other combo decks.

[Adan]

Now that Lille is over, here's my list that I've been playing:

5 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Flooded Stand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
1 Split Decision

//Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Massacre
1 Swamp
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Wipe Away
1 Trickbind
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival

My tournament in Lille went like this:

Matchups Day1:

Goblins 2-1
ANT 1-2
Miracles 2-0
MUD 2-1
RUG Delver 0-2
Belcher 2-0 (he conceded because he forgot to drop)
Jund 2-0
Elves 2-0
Miracles 2-0

7-2

Matchups Day2:

RUG Delver 2-0 (gameloss for tardiness, though)
BUG Delver 0-2 (didn't find a SnT in g1. And in g2, Omniscience + SnT doesn't do shit with 4 lands in my hand and another 3 from the top)
Jund Dephts 0-2 (Didn't find SnT in time g1 and got killed by Marit Lage on Turn4 and in g2 I had the 3rd Turn Kill, but he opens with Faithless Looting on Turn 1 and Animate Dead on Turn 2 for Sire of Insanity. One of my hardest tilts of all time).
Grixis Delver 1-2 (Emrakul in g1, manaflood in g2, manascrew g3. I almost got there in g3, but he had 6 countermagic that game (2 Envelop, 3 Pyroblast and a Force of Will))
Reanimator 2-1 (Thoughtseize prevented a 2nd Turn Kill in game2, and g3 I peeled SnT from the top to complement my Emrakul)
Elves 2-1 (In game 2 I thought that the Craterhoof Behemoth in his hand can't really kill me when I saw peeked with a Probe, but that 2nd Nettle Sentinel from the top kinda did everything for him with Heritage Druid and company).

3-3

---

10-5

Ended up heartbroken on place 106th. Prizes were only distributed among Top100, so I get 0$ due to tiebreakers. Anyway, just wanted to post my list for the record before this deck ceases to exist from next week on.

[Macky984]

I'd rather win.

Impulse + Braistorm can fail, Split Decision not.

You Cunning Wish for Firemind's Foresight and get Cunning Wish, Split Decision, Brainstorm.

Then, Cunning Wish with SD copying it -> get Eladamri's Call and Emrakul -> put Emrakul top with brainstorm -> Get RtA with the original Wish and profit.

I understand what you're saying... don't get me wrong.. but I have this thing about drawing dead cards. It's pretty painful to draw Split Decision when not going off with Firemind's... Impulse at least can do something by itself where Split Decision cannot.

[Adan]

I understand what you're saying... don't get me wrong.. but I have this thing about drawing dead cards. It's pretty painful to draw Split Decision when not going off with Firemind's... Impulse at least can do something by itself where Split Decision cannot.

Split Decision can do some ridiculous things. In Lille I have witnessed Split Decision...:

- ...copying DTT, either the own one or the opponent's DTT
- ...copying Reanimate, stealing that Griselbrand from the GY before the opponent got it
- ...copying an Entreat The Angels for 5 angels during extraturns, then the original copy got countered and the Miracles player was overrun by the angels
- ...copying Ancestral Visions, refueling the hand against BUG Agent

It also helps you to win some counter-wars, either copying the counterspell to counter back or in case of REBs copying the Show and Tell.

So that's that.

[Technics]

Split Decision can do some ridiculous things. In Lille I have witnessed Split Decision...:

- ...copying DTT, either the own one or the opponent's DTT
- ...copying Reanimate, stealing that Griselbrand from the GY before the opponent got it
- ...copying an Entreat The Angels for 5 angels during extraturns, then the original copy got countered and the Miracles player was overrun by the angels
- ...copying Ancestral Visions, refueling the hand against BUG Agent

It also helps you to win some counter-wars, either copying the counterspell to counter back or in case of REBs copying the Show and Tell.

So that's that.


Since you are already running Black, how do you feel about Lim-Dul's Vault over Impulse/SD?

[Nihilis]

Went 11-3-1 at the GP with a black splash, which was good for 33rd place.

[kuroko16]

Went 11-3-1 at the GP with a black splash, which was good for 33rd place.

can you write the list? i'm really interested in a Black splash

[Togores]

I didnt make day 2 at the gp.
But the lost here is good. Varius spanish players played it.
I lost to mud putting trinishpere into play and then helkting my omniscense with 11 mana.
Then to reanimator where I had the win with 2 dig 2 wish 3 counters when I show and telled t3 and he had the lone inona. And g3 vs him when I diged after a counterwar who lets me with dig and him with reanimate. And the dig showed only lands and preordain and the turn and preordain draw only gave lands.
Then to canadian stifling all my lands. But im still sure the list is really powerfull. And the mountain is a good evil. Also the pyromancer plan is not of my like when everyone knows it.

4 omni
4 dig
4 fow
4 bs
4 show
-20
4 ponder
4 preord
3 gp
3 wish
1 mountain
1 impulse
-16
2 pierce
2 fluster
2 emmy
-4
8 fetch
5 island
2 city
2 volcan
1 boseiju
-20

2 pyro
1 reb
2 sudden shock
2 pyroclasm
1 fluster
1 surgical
1 fireminds
1 eldamris call
1 wipe
1release ants
1 thou the breach
1 boseiju

[Adan]

Since you are already running Black, how do you feel about Lim-Dul's Vault over Impulse/SD?

My list in Milano was basically like the above one with 2 LDV instead of Split Decision and the Boseiju. LDV was sometimes smooth, and sometimes it made me tilt because you can't efford to fetch an Underground Sea against the Delver players that are sandbagging their Wastelands. I decided that it's better to not play cards in the MD that force you to fetch vulnerable mana. It can act as a Vampiric Tutor and thu also enables an instant-speed kill, which is neat, but as I said, there are matchups in which you don't want to fetch a U-Sea.

[famdoola]

Since you are already running Black, how do you feel about Lim-Dul's Vault over Impulse/SD?

i've been testing out a light black splash similar to that build but with Lim dul's vault in its place, and its pretty bonkers - it is a 100% guaranteed RtA kill off of Firemind's foresight, and is a little more proactive than split-decision, but i'm still not sold on which is better. I will say that LDV has tested well enough for me that i'm actually considering running 2 of them, whereas i never thought about that with twin/split.

It really throws ppl for a loop end on their turn 2 with Island+Fetch out -- fetch for Sea/Swamp depending on deck ur playing -cast LDV - find your missing combo piece and then GG. Everyones always like "oh lim-duls vault..uhmm..wait whats that do again *reads card* oh uh...ok resolves" you get Snt/Omni whatever and then yeah GG.

here's my list as of right now for the light black splash

4 Show and Tell
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Cunning Wish
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Preordain
4 Omniscience
2 Spell Pierce
1 Crystal Vein
4 Flooded Strand
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Flusterstorm
1 City of Traitors
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact




Been testing it all week and really diggin it, will let you know how tourney ends up on wednesday, i know people have drifted away from the leyline SB which i honestly did as well, but im glad to be back on it.

[Nihilis]

I played the following:

Main

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul

4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault

3 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

SB:
2 Massacre
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Duress
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dig Through Time
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Rushing River
1 Wipe Away
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Release the Ants
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm

I played against:

R1 Dark Maverick (2-1)
R2 Belcher 2-0
R3 MUD 1-2
R4 Miracles 2-1
R5 Opponent did not show up
R6 Grixis Control 0-2
R7 Dredge 2-0
R8 Storm 2-1
R9 Miracles 2-0

R10 Shardless BUG 2-0
R11 Death & Taxes 2-0
R12 UR OmniTell 1-2
R13 Elves 2-1
R14 Grixis Control 2-1
R15 Maverick 0-0-1

So 11-3-1, good for 33rd place.

All in all a very amusing weekend, despite the exhausting weather.

[famdoola]

I played the following:

Main

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul

4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault

3 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

SB:
2 Massacre
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Duress
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dig Through Time
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Rushing River
1 Wipe Away
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Release the Ants
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm

I played against:

R1 Dark Maverick (2-1)
R2 Belcher 2-0
R3 MUD 1-2
R4 Miracles 2-1
R5 Opponent did not show up
R6 Grixis Control 0-2
R7 Dredge 2-0
R8 Storm 2-1
R9 Miracles 2-0

R10 Shardless BUG 2-0
R11 Death & Taxes 2-0
R12 UR OmniTell 1-2
R13 Elves 2-1
R14 Grixis Control 2-1
R15 Maverick 0-0-1

So 11-3-1, good for 33rd place.

All in all a very amusing weekend, despite the exhausting weather.


congrats man! seems interesting that you went 0-2 against grixis and then 2-1, how did those rounds shake out? also were there any cards you werent digging in your list, or perhaps any matchups you felt wouldve been sured up with leylines in the board?

[Nihilis]

Thank you! :)

I was slightly out of the tournament during round 6 (half asleep after the round 5 no show and lack of sleep due to the heat), so I played some very poor games of magic. Luckily I managed to wake up and still make day 2.
The matchup is really rough though, as Cabal Therapy just wrecks you. It's best to just not have the combo (or at least nog S&T) in hand when they cast this. If combined with a creature, things go downhill very fast. For the rest, it plays out like against Miracles. Trade resources with your discard, find an opening, win the counter war (boseiju is great against the control variants) and spaghetti their face.

The list was a result of several months worth of testing, so I'm very happy about how it currently looks. I don't really like the Leylines, as I feel they make the deck less consistent than it would otherwise be, not to mention it takes up 4 spaces in an already very tight sideboard (due to Cunning Wish). If your meta contains a lot of discard, I could see putting it in the sideboard, but for an open tournament like this I did not feel they were needed (not even against grixis).

[Macky984]

Split Decision can do some ridiculous things. In Lille I have witnessed Split Decision...:

- ...copying DTT, either the own one or the opponent's DTT
- ...copying Reanimate, stealing that Griselbrand from the GY before the opponent got it
- ...copying an Entreat The Angels for 5 angels during extraturns, then the original copy got countered and the Miracles player was overrun by the angels
- ...copying Ancestral Visions, refueling the hand against BUG Agent

It also helps you to win some counter-wars, either copying the counterspell to counter back or in case of REBs copying the Show and Tell.

So that's that.

So you're saying it still needs help from something else and can't function by itself... Which is the point I'm making. Got it.

[Poron]

Split Decision, by definition, has a huge variance.

a huge variance card as a 1x (which is also a finisher during the combo) is not a bad idea.

I use LD Vault, instead. I way prefer the Ub version with Massacre and Thoughtseize. We'd just need something serious against Counterbalance. May be Swan Song?

[Macky984]

Wipe away kinda poops on Counterbalance. That's what I use.

My problem with Lim Dul's is that it sucks to draw when not going off with Firemind's. Sure you can guarantee your next draw and that's good... but it doesn't get you a card right there on the spot so it felt a little clunky drawing it or having it in my opener.

When you get it with Firemind's though... It's pretty much a guaranteed win which is awesome.

[Poron]

that's why i play 2 MD and 1 SB.

1 for combo, one for random goodness.

the one in the SB is as good as Intuition if you want to see 1 exact card

Wype Away relates on Cunning Wish which needs Boseiju not ti be an hazard..