[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

Abusing Rector seems nice, as newly found success with Primeval Bounty seems great. Plus I know about Recurring Nightmare+Kokusho/Yosei. That was my main draw to the deck. Plus I wanted to try something...fun. playing combo for too long just gets too stale for me and I've been playing combo decks for a year now. Time to actual cast creatures.

I was also thinking, along with deeds and nightmare, about patern of rebirth to grab Kokusho or watever other creature I decide to put in...but I feel like that's either too cute or win more.

I have taken Scapeshift to two local tournaments the last month. The first one with 34 players a month ago and the second one, which was today, with I believe 26 people. The local meta seemed heavy with fair decks, so Scapewish seemed like a good choice. My list was very similar to Arianrhods list, cutting the Avenger to go down to 60 cards. I still use damnation and bramblecrush, since neither leyline based combo or enchantress i prevalent enough to warrent Reverent Silence. I the first tournament i faced, in order, merfolk, junk, RUG, miracles and BUG control. I managed to beat all of them, but the miracle player, who went on to win the tournament undefeated. I got the second seed for top 8, getting paired against a bug infect list. I quickly lost both games, without the opportunity to cast to many spells of relevance. I at least got a wasteland out of the tourament.

I played in the second tournament today. I got paired against BUG and then something similar, jund ,UR painter servant and reanimator. I defeated the first four opponents, dropping a game to the painter servant deck. I had to play against him because i got paired down and he wanted to play. Even though I was locked to top 8, I considered my chances of beating reanimator fairly slim. I therefore offered the ID and got it, getting first place in standings. In the top 8 i met the same Jund player again. I lost game 1 to getting my only green source wasted, and not drawing any more. In games 2 and 3 the mountains were victorious. I then met a junk deck. I one game, with two thragtusks to discourage attacks, i was able to get a 12 for 1 with Pernicious Deed, killing multiple bobs, tidehollow scullers, deathrite and a jitte. Deed is quite the card. After winning 2-0 versus junk I got to play the finals versus aggro loam, who was also undefeated. I think that both of us being undefeated is a testament to the current local meta. I mulliganed to 5 in game one, but he stumbled on mana for a turn and i Scapeshifted him out on the last possible turn. I game two i was crushed by devastating dreams. In the final game I was able to slaughter games his loams fairly early, and proceeded to deed away his board, and the damnation the three threats he deployed the turn after. After that I had a lot of time to comfortable assemble the Scapeshift win.

I am very pleased about winning my second tournament with this deck, and top 8ing both of them. Compared to Rector, which I have played a bit earlier, I do like the ability to simply kill the opponent. I found myself struggelig a lot versus deark confidant with Rector, since I was unable to kill him. In the last tournament, I believe almost all of my opponents played bob, but he was nearly a none issue. I could easily stall for a while and then kill them with scapeshift, leaving the extra cards drawn less than usefull.

I just left SCG NJ and did horrible. I was testing a build focused on rector. But I think I will go back go the original list. Rector is good at changing the tempo of a game but I couldn't finish. But I did hit someone for 13 with a Rasulka.

Congrats, Svknoe!

As I've said before, I think you need a very good reason to play a non-scapeshift version of the deck. Slaughter games, REB, and having an "I win" button are paramount.

Blue versions might be better against combo, but they are slow and durdly, and will take their toll on you as you go round after round trying to eek out a win before turns are called.

Split top 4 at a modern event on Saturday (guess which deck I played), and then split top 4 at the local legacy event tonight with an upgraded Thune. I'll give details tomorrow. I'm definitely pleased with where the deck is going.

Went 4-3 drop at the 10-round SCG Somerset, beating MUD, Maverick, Deathblade and Storm, losing to RUG Delver and 2 more Storm decks. Bigger report to come. 3 Storm opponents frustrates me, I think I need a little more practice against it but I know there's also not a ton I can do. I was playing Scapewish with a few sideboard changes. The event had a lot of combo which I wasn't expecting because apparently the metagame at the Invitational was very fair, so it wasn't the best environment for Scapeshifting anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

Went 4-3 drop at the 10-round SCG Somerset, beating MUD, Maverick, Deathblade and Storm, losing to RUG Delver and 2 more Storm decks. Bigger report to come. 3 Storm opponents frustrates me, I think I need a little more practice against it but I know there's also not a ton I can do. I was playing Scapewish with a few sideboard changes. The event had a lot of combo which I wasn't expecting because apparently the metagame at the Invitational was very fair, so it wasn't the best environment for Scapeshifting anyway.

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Yeah, I saw on Facebook that Devin went darkside was played TES -- and then played vs Shardless 4 rounds in a row. I lol'd. Sounds like it was kind of a mixed bag -- it was in fact a "fair" meta because of the invitational's leavings, but at the same time, it was also bigger than a lot of Grand Prix, so all the random people added a bunch of combo to the field that I think most people weren't expecting.

Haven't been playing nic fit for quite some time but this Thune deck seems really interesting. I loooove primeval bounty, especially the art! I got to play it on the pre release and it was bonkers.

I think this Thune deck has lots of potential but it's far from optimal in its current state. Gonna try it out and see how it goes

@Arianrhod

This is the list I have sorta modified from your earlier list and proved quite nice in testing against Jund, Deadguy Ale, Stoneblade Variants and TES


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Varolz, Scar-Striped
2 Spike Feeder
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
1 Diabolic Intent

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed


3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Cavern of Souls

//SB
1 Spike Feeder
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Volrath's Stronghold

3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
2 Oblivion Ring


I find flinks awesome against those pesky decks that love to race (didn't like how this deck is quite weak against Deadguy Ale and Jund without flinks unless I am playing it wrong and which I would love for assistance on this). That aside cavern of souls is mostly there to force in either angel or sun titan for recurring shenanigans. I dropped the enchantment package of nightmare and bounty as I prefer a more streamlined deck.

Alright, here's what I played yesterday. Oh, and for everyone who guessed "Melira Pod" for Saturday's modern event, you're correct.


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Varolz, Scar-Striped
2 Spike Feeder
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
1 Diabolic Intent

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Phyrexian Tower

//SB
1 Viscera Seer
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Spike Feeder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Angel of Despair
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker

1 Gaddock Teeg

3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Nevermore
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Batterskull


Summarized changes:

Main:
-1 Primeval Bounty
-1 Yosei
+1 Thragtusk
+1 Grave Titan

Side:
-1 Karakas
-1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Spike Feeder
+1 Primeval Bounty

I decided that while I still wanted Bounty somewhere in the 76, I didn't want it maindeck. It fulfills much the same role as the Batterskull -- it's an enormous bomb for the grindy fair.dec matchups. It's not really something that you need main. Yosei locking was underwhelming (read: impossible) through testing, so I decided to go back a bit further in time and run the old Grave Titan. Since Thune isn't actually Rector (although it is evolved from Rector), you don't have the Moat concerns to worry about....and without having to worry about attacking through your own Moat, Grave Titan is still a hell of a guy. I'd said last time that I wanted Thragtusk in the list, and moving the Bounty to the sideboard gave me that option.

As for the board, both of the lands had been profoundly underwhelming last time, so I opted to cut both of them. That gave me the room to put in the Bounty, and to put in the Spike Feeder that I'd always wanted in the board.

As for the event:

R1 was vs Punishing Jund

My cards are basically just really good against his cards. In addition to the age-old trump of Sigarda, we also now have Varolz, which Jund is equally incapable of dealing with. G1 was a mull to 6 into Kitchen Finks and Spikes stalling (and Spikes resetting persisted Finks, because that synergy is AMAZING) into Varolz + Sigarda, with some scavenging to make them big. G2 I mulled to 5, as both my 7 and 6 were 1-land non-basic hands. He drew really well, including having a Sylvan Library going the whole game. G3 I finally had a good hand, and opened Forest+Veteran. From there Deed happened to reset his board, and then scary monsters went bump in the night.

R2 was vs Green Deadguy aka my friend that I play every single ****ing event

G1 I go infinite. G2 is a gross, gross game that goes to time. We have the Sigarda + Batterskull mirror match, but he also has Sword of Light/Shadow and Basilisk Collar, so I can't progress. I peak at like 120 life with him at 1 at one point....which he manages to reverse to something like me at 66ish and him at 85ish. I finally hit my second Deed on turn 4 of extra turns, and wrath his board, leaving me with a 21/22 Archangel of Thune, Grave Titan, and Batterskull with Primeval Bounty out, and him with Sigarda and Batterskull. If I'd had more time, that game would've been a win, too, but since I won g1 it didn't actually matter. I did also miss an opportunity where he was dead on board earlier in the game and I just didn't see it. /Shrug.

R3 was vs Junk

These games were really, really tight. G1 goes pretty long, but ends with me going infinite with Sylvan Safekeeper in play. G2 I try to assemble the combo like 3 different times, but I can't find Safekeeper and he always has the spot removal in hand. He ends up winning after a really, really tight game. We start game three with about 7 minutes left on the clock. I assemble a pretty good board state and am set up to win on around turn 7-turn 8 of extra turns. Unfortunately we only get 5 of those. Draw.

R4 I ID'd vs Dredge (we had 14 people, and we were both safe -- me at 2-0-2 and him at 2-1-1. We played for fun and I beat him 2-0 without sideboarding. Sakura-Tribe Elder is the most hilarious dredge hate ever, and it turns out that Grave Titan is REALLY good against Dredge.

Top 8 I got rematched vs the Junk player from R3.

He came out really fast with double KotR in g1. I tried to go infinite, but he had a spot removal. I skated along barely staying alive, and then on the last turn of my life I topped on upkeep into Archangel + Green Sun. Drew one for turn, popped top to draw the other, and slammed the combo down. He didn't have the removal, and I went infinite from 2 life. The ability to do shit like that is what Rector was always missing, and Thune fixes that problem. It's not quite as good as in Scapewish, where it's a literal 1-card combo (and it's really hard to disrupt, to boot). That said, it's still good enough most of the time.

Game 2 was significantly more boring -- was a pretty academic game of early ramp + defense into Archangel + Grave Titan doing the things that they do. He did have an 11/11 Ooze, though. It was pretty gross.

Top 4 split, but I would've been paired vs Elves if we'd played it out. Pretty sure that matchup is basically a coinflip....might be more like 45/55. Canonist, Revoker, Nevermore, Deed, Therapy are all good -- but to win you basically need to hit Vet + Therapy in order for your hate to be quick enough. It's kind of awkward.

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Some thoughts:

-) Thune's concept has been sufficiently proven, IMO. I've played enough Nic Fit to know when a version is awful, and this is definitely not qualifying under that lens. Obv needs tuning, and I need to play it a lot more to get better with the lines, but there's something here.

-) Grave Titan is big daddy. Deathtouch was astonishingly/aggravatingly relevant on the day, taking out giant KotRs and Oozes from Junk in particular when Deed was nowhere to be found.

- The Titans are stabilizers, Sigarda is the primary beatstick wincon -- just as it always was with Rector.

-) Spike Feeder + Kitchen Finks is a hilariously strong grinding engine. Being able to twice-over reset Finks' persist is gross. If Jund doesn't have an active Deathrite, they get REALLY angry to see that.

-) Also Varolz: Bannerman of Trolling.

-) Diabolic Intent is pretty solid in this deck. I almost want a second copy.

-) I opted to keep 2 Phyrexian Towers instead of putting in a High Market because I wanted the extra mana push. I may still opt to try High Market in the sideboard -- I'm not sure but that that might overlap with Viscera Seer too much, though.

-) Bounty was fine out of the sideboard. I think that's the correct spot for it in non-Rector builds. Batterskull + Bounty gives me exactly the threat density post-board that I want against attrition/control decks. I boarded out 1 Explorer 1 Therapy for them.

-) I never wished for the combo hate or for the Angel of Despair on the day. Some of that might be because I didn't play against combo, obv. I also didn't wish for Qasali, but in g2 vs Greenguy I would've killed for a Wish->Qasali to get rid of the fucking Basilisk Collar.

-) Safekeeper was almost cut from the list yesterday morning. Pretty sure that after playing vs the Junk guy with his infinite spot removal, he's never leaving. Also, Safekeeper + either Titan is pretty nasty.

-) Recurring Nightmare was very subpar -- I only got to use it for its intended purpose once on the day. Deathrite and Ooze kept it down a lot. The problem is that I know that there will be games that I'll lose to not having Nightmare in my list because I then don't have a recursion engine at all. I might try to just lean completely on Eternal Witness / Sun Titan, and see if that's enough. Not sure what the Nightmare would become -- probably either a 3rd maindeck Archangel or possibly something like a 1-of Abrupt Decay. Maybe a second Diabolic Intent. Maybe some kind of maindeck combo hate. I dunno.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Alright, here's what I played yesterday. Oh, and for everyone who guessed "Melira Pod" for Saturday's modern event, you're correct.


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Varolz, Scar-Striped
2 Spike Feeder
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
1 Diabolic Intent

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Phyrexian Tower

//SB
1 Viscera Seer
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Spike Feeder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Angel of Despair
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker

1 Gaddock Teeg

3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Nevermore
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Batterskull


Summarized changes:

Main:
-1 Primeval Bounty
-1 Yosei
+1 Thragtusk
+1 Grave Titan

Side:
-1 Karakas
-1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Spike Feeder
+1 Primeval Bounty

I decided that while I still wanted Bounty somewhere in the 76, I didn't want it maindeck. It fulfills much the same role as the Batterskull -- it's an enormous bomb for the grindy fair.dec matchups. It's not really something that you need main. Yosei locking was underwhelming (read: impossible) through testing, so I decided to go back a bit further in time and run the old Grave Titan. Since Thune isn't actually Rector (although it is evolved from Rector), you don't have the Moat concerns to worry about....and without having to worry about attacking through your own Moat, Grave Titan is still a hell of a guy. I'd said last time that I wanted Thragtusk in the list, and moving the Bounty to the sideboard gave me that option.

As for the board, both of the lands had been profoundly underwhelming last time, so I opted to cut both of them. That gave me the room to put in the Bounty, and to put in the Spike Feeder that I'd always wanted in the board.

As for the event:

R1 was vs Punishing Jund

My cards are basically just really good against his cards. In addition to the age-old trump of Sigarda, we also now have Varolz, which Jund is equally incapable of dealing with. G1 was a mull to 6 into Kitchen Finks and Spikes stalling (and Spikes resetting persisted Finks, because that synergy is AMAZING) into Varolz + Sigarda, with some scavenging to make them big. G2 I mulled to 5, as both my 7 and 6 were 1-land non-basic hands. He drew really well, including having a Sylvan Library going the whole game. G3 I finally had a good hand, and opened Forest+Veteran. From there Deed happened to reset his board, and then scary monsters went bump in the night.

R2 was vs Green Deadguy aka my friend that I play every single ****ing event

G1 I go infinite. G2 is a gross, gross game that goes to time. We have the Sigarda + Batterskull mirror match, but he also has Sword of Light/Shadow and Basilisk Collar, so I can't progress. I peak at like 120 life with him at 1 at one point....which he manages to reverse to something like me at 66ish and him at 85ish. I finally hit my second Deed on turn 4 of extra turns, and wrath his board, leaving me with a 21/22 Archangel of Thune, Grave Titan, and Batterskull with Primeval Bounty out, and him with Sigarda and Batterskull. If I'd had more time, that game would've been a win, too, but since I won g1 it didn't actually matter. I did also miss an opportunity where he was dead on board earlier in the game and I just didn't see it. /Shrug.

R3 was vs Junk

These games were really, really tight. G1 goes pretty long, but ends with me going infinite with Sylvan Safekeeper in play. G2 I try to assemble the combo like 3 different times, but I can't find Safekeeper and he always has the spot removal in hand. He ends up winning after a really, really tight game. We start game three with about 7 minutes left on the clock. I assemble a pretty good board state and am set up to win on around turn 7-turn 8 of extra turns. Unfortunately we only get 5 of those. Draw.

R4 I ID'd vs Dredge (we had 14 people, and we were both safe -- me at 2-0-2 and him at 2-1-1. We played for fun and I beat him 2-0 without sideboarding. Sakura-Tribe Elder is the most hilarious dredge hate ever, and it turns out that Grave Titan is REALLY good against Dredge.

Top 8 I got rematched vs the Junk player from R3.

He came out really fast with double KotR in g1. I tried to go infinite, but he had a spot removal. I skated along barely staying alive, and then on the last turn of my life I topped on upkeep into Archangel + Green Sun. Drew one for turn, popped top to draw the other, and slammed the combo down. He didn't have the removal, and I went infinite from 2 life. The ability to do shit like that is what Rector was always missing, and Thune fixes that problem. It's not quite as good as in Scapewish, where it's a literal 1-card combo (and it's really hard to disrupt, to boot). That said, it's still good enough most of the time.

Game 2 was significantly more boring -- was a pretty academic game of early ramp + defense into Archangel + Grave Titan doing the things that they do. He did have an 11/11 Ooze, though. It was pretty gross.

Top 4 split, but I would've been paired vs Elves if we'd played it out. Pretty sure that matchup is basically a coinflip....might be more like 45/55. Canonist, Revoker, Nevermore, Deed, Therapy are all good -- but to win you basically need to hit Vet + Therapy in order for your hate to be quick enough. It's kind of awkward.

-----------

Some thoughts:

-) Thune's concept has been sufficiently proven, IMO. I've played enough Nic Fit to know when a version is awful, and this is definitely not qualifying under that lens. Obv needs tuning, and I need to play it a lot more to get better with the lines, but there's something here.

-) Grave Titan is big daddy. Deathtouch was astonishingly/aggravatingly relevant on the day, taking out giant KotRs and Oozes from Junk in particular when Deed was nowhere to be found.

- The Titans are stabilizers, Sigarda is the primary beatstick wincon -- just as it always was with Rector.

-) Spike Feeder + Kitchen Finks is a hilariously strong grinding engine. Being able to twice-over reset Finks' persist is gross. If Jund doesn't have an active Deathrite, they get REALLY angry to see that.

-) Also Varolz: Bannerman of Trolling.

-) Diabolic Intent is pretty solid in this deck. I almost want a second copy.

-) I opted to keep 2 Phyrexian Towers instead of putting in a High Market because I wanted the extra mana push. I may still opt to try High Market in the sideboard -- I'm not sure but that that might overlap with Viscera Seer too much, though.

-) Bounty was fine out of the sideboard. I think that's the correct spot for it in non-Rector builds. Batterskull + Bounty gives me exactly the threat density post-board that I want against attrition/control decks. I boarded out 1 Explorer 1 Therapy for them.

-) I never wished for the combo hate or for the Angel of Despair on the day. Some of that might be because I didn't play against combo, obv. I also didn't wish for Qasali, but in g2 vs Greenguy I would've killed for a Wish->Qasali to get rid of the fucking Basilisk Collar.

-) Safekeeper was almost cut from the list yesterday morning. Pretty sure that after playing vs the Junk guy with his infinite spot removal, he's never leaving. Also, Safekeeper + either Titan is pretty nasty.

-) Recurring Nightmare was very subpar -- I only got to use it for its intended purpose once on the day. Deathrite and Ooze kept it down a lot. The problem is that I know that there will be games that I'll lose to not having Nightmare in my list because I then don't have a recursion engine at all. I might try to just lean completely on Eternal Witness / Sun Titan, and see if that's enough. Not sure what the Nightmare would become -- probably either a 3rd maindeck Archangel or possibly something like a 1-of Abrupt Decay. Maybe a second Diabolic Intent. Maybe some kind of maindeck combo hate. I dunno.

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Interesting! Well done. I fear this deck is gonna have lots of problem against combo decks though, just like most nic fit decks. Although the infinite heal combo we got here could help alot if we get there. Can this deck combo quicker than scapewish?

Not sure about Angel of Despair. It's only good against S&T and only if the opponent is unaware that you have it = pointless gettin it with living wish

Maybe it's better to add some more discard to SB?

Other than that this deck looks really awesome! Can't wait to try it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by litenkatt

Interesting! Well done. I fear this deck is gonna have lots of problem against combo decks though, just like most nic fit decks. Although the infinite heal combo we got here could help alot if we get there. Can this deck combo quicker than scapewish?

Not sure about Angel of Despair. It's only good against S&T and only if the opponent is unaware that you have it = pointless gettin it with living wish

Maybe it's better to add some more discard to SB?

Other than that this deck looks really awesome! Can't wait to try it

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Yeah. Vs combo we're basically on the Maverick plan of bears + Safekeeper to lock down bounce/decay. We have the usual Nic Fit plan of Deed vs Empty, and Therapies can rip their hand apart (slightly better here than in Scape because of the higher density of creatures). Nevermores are arguably one of the strongest on-color anti-combo options that still gets under Gaddock.

Angel is a dual-purpose here -- it's both good vs Show and Tell (even if they see it coming, at worst-case we've essentially Cranial'd their Show and Tells. they basically CAN'T SnT into it unless they have Wish, which makes them jump through another hoop); and it's good as a late-game bomb to Wish for when you've got a pile of mana and topdeck a wish without being able to combo. It might still not be good enough, but I'm reserving judgment on the Angel pending more testing.

As for combo speed, it's about the same as Scapewish. Uninterrupted it can win t3-t4 fairly easily, although with less consistency than Scapewish. When evaluating the combos, each version has slightly different strengths/weaknesses:

Scapeshift is much harder to hate, and is a 1-card combo. However, Scapeshift caps easily at 18 and realistically at 36. It also can be hurt by a savvy player who understands Valakut/Wasteland interactions. It's also vulnerable to a Surgical/Extirpate on a Wastelanded Taiga, although that is less common. ThuneFeeder isn't hurt by Surgical as badly thanks to redundant copies in the wishboard.

ThuneFeeder is a 2-card combo, which automatically makes it less consistent, and it loses to spot removal, which is even worse. However, the tutorability of Spike Feeder via Zenith helps to shore up the consistency problems, and the Spike is also recursive via Sun Titan (both of these matter, since Spike is more likely to die than Angel -- he can be Decayed, P-Fired, Bolted, etc).

They both have different strengths and weaknesses. I think that the real comparison between Scapewish and Thune is not in the relative strength of their combos, but in the shells that surround them. Scapewish is the stronger combo deck, for sure, but Thune is a better midrange deck. It has significantly better mana, has more of a sideboard, has more internal synergies, and has a higher bomb density.

At this point all I think that I can say is that Thune is the heir-apparent to Rector's crown as the superior GBw list. How it compares to Scapewish remains to be seen. It's still pretty new comparatively speaking -- Scapewish has over a year of fine-tuning on it. Time will tell.

I've only play tested a bit with Thune, but it seems more closely related to Punishing N. Fit than Rector even though it's in GBW.

I like the last changes. I also think that Feeder/Thune has a lot of potential. What still needs to be done is:

a) get to 60 cards
b) improve the mana curve: six cards with CMC 5 or more + costly cards like Living Wish, Fierce Empath, Recurring Nightmare and Diabolic Intent is a bit too much
c) give the deck some chance against combo. Currently we are at a auto-loss.


I also think that Lingering Souls belongs in the deck but I am not sure about that. The card is an engine in itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tao

I like the last changes. I also think that Feeder/Thune has a lot of potential. What still needs to be done is:

a) get to 60 cards
b) improve the mana curve: six cards with CMC 5 or more + costly cards like Living Wish, Fierce Empath, Recurring Nightmare and Diabolic Intent is a bit too much
c) give the deck some chance against combo. Currently we are at a auto-loss.


I also think that Lingering Souls belongs in the deck but I am not sure about that. The card is an engine in itself.

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I agree, and I think the empath and titans are probably unnecessary. Angels should be enough to win with. 3-4 thoughtseizes in the 75 might help a bit, but combo is always going to be a tough matchup.


I was very close to playing Scapewish at SCG Somerset, but ended up going 4-3 with Esper Deathblade dropping with 3 rounds left since I had a long drive and was out of top 32 probably. Reflecting back, if I had played scape and had the same matches, I would not have done well. It's going to be a few weeks, but the next low key event I go to, I'm going to give BUG Nic fit a try for the first time, playing a list close to tao's.

I'm planning on playing AngelWishFit on SCG Mpls with a twist. Hexmage and dark depths as wish targets. Sounds silly, I know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Sounds silly, I know.

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Then don't do it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Yeah. Vs combo we're basically on the Maverick plan of bears + Safekeeper to lock down bounce/decay. We have the usual Nic Fit plan of Deed vs Empty, and Therapies can rip their hand apart (slightly better here than in Scape because of the higher density of creatures). Nevermores are arguably one of the strongest on-color anti-combo options that still gets under Gaddock.

Angel is a dual-purpose here -- it's both good vs Show and Tell (even if they see it coming, at worst-case we've essentially Cranial'd their Show and Tells. they basically CAN'T SnT into it unless they have Wish, which makes them jump through another hoop); and it's good as a late-game bomb to Wish for when you've got a pile of mana and topdeck a wish without being able to combo. It might still not be good enough, but I'm reserving judgment on the Angel pending more testing.

As for combo speed, it's about the same as Scapewish. Uninterrupted it can win t3-t4 fairly easily, although with less consistency than Scapewish. When evaluating the combos, each version has slightly different strengths/weaknesses:

Scapeshift is much harder to hate, and is a 1-card combo. However, Scapeshift caps easily at 18 and realistically at 36. It also can be hurt by a savvy player who understands Valakut/Wasteland interactions. It's also vulnerable to a Surgical/Extirpate on a Wastelanded Taiga, although that is less common. ThuneFeeder isn't hurt by Surgical as badly thanks to redundant copies in the wishboard.

ThuneFeeder is a 2-card combo, which automatically makes it less consistent, and it loses to spot removal, which is even worse. However, the tutorability of Spike Feeder via Zenith helps to shore up the consistency problems, and the Spike is also recursive via Sun Titan (both of these matter, since Spike is more likely to die than Angel -- he can be Decayed, P-Fired, Bolted, etc).

They both have different strengths and weaknesses. I think that the real comparison between Scapewish and Thune is not in the relative strength of their combos, but in the shells that surround them. Scapewish is the stronger combo deck, for sure, but Thune is a better midrange deck. It has significantly better mana, has more of a sideboard, has more internal synergies, and has a higher bomb density.

At this point all I think that I can say is that Thune is the heir-apparent to Rector's crown as the superior GBw list. How it compares to Scapewish remains to be seen. It's still pretty new comparatively speaking -- Scapewish has over a year of fine-tuning on it. Time will tell.

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I'm curious if the lack of non-deed removal hurt much aka decay/swords or even pulse/vindicate.
I think nightmare is probably better on the bench right now. A little too much hate at the moment. Not sure what to replace it with, however. Nevermore x1 maindeck?

Tao: I would like test it before Sunday. My only chance will probably be during the challenge if I scrub out of standard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

I'm planning on playing AngelWishFit on SCG Mpls with a twist. Hexmage and dark depths as wish targets. Sounds silly, I know.

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Are you having copies of them maindeck too? Cause have a two card combo that needs to both cards be found with wishes sounds really bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

I'm curious if the lack of non-deed removal hurt much aka decay/swords or even pulse/vindicate.
I think nightmare is probably better on the bench right now. A little too much hate at the moment. Not sure what to replace it with, however. Nevermore x1 maindeck?

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While Arianrhod and Tao have both proven to be competent players and deck builders you will find their style varies tremendously. For better or worse, Arianrhod prefers to just pack bomb after bomb, forgoing removal often times to force his opponent to instead have to spend resources removing his threats instead of dropping his own. Arianrhod suffers from trying to do too many win more and cute things often time. For better or worse, Tao seems to value consistency above all else, cutting anything that is overly situational or could be win more and running more traditional general removal and SB combo hate. Tao is much more rigid and less willing to give up any consistency for powerful and/or fun stuff.

Personally, while I find Arianrhod's deck building innovations invaluable, I tend to side more towards Tao's deckbuilding style because desire for consistency and tendency to be a reactor, not proactive. If you are asking yourself, "wheres the 4'of removal spell and the thoughtseizes?" you might be in the same boat as me and want to run a more conservative/consistent but less aggressive/explosive list like the one tao posted a few pages back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect

Are you having copies of them maindeck too? Cause have a two card combo that needs to both cards be found with wishes sounds really bad.




While Arianrhod and Tao have both proven to be competent players and deck builders you will find their style varies tremendously. For better or worse, Arianrhod prefers to just pack bomb after bomb, forgoing removal often times to force his opponent to instead have to spend resources removing his threats instead of dropping his own. Arianrhod suffers from trying to do too many win more and cute things often time. For better or worse, Tao seems to value consistency above all else, cutting anything that is overly situational or could be win more and running more traditional general removal and SB combo hate. Tao is much more rigid and less willing to give up any consistency for powerful and/or fun stuff.

Personally, while I find Arianrhod's deck building innovations invaluable, I tend to side more towards Tao's deckbuilding style because desire for consistency and tendency to be a reactor, not proactive. If you are asking yourself, "wheres the 4'of removal spell and the thoughtseizes?" you might be in the same boat as me and want to run a more conservative/consistent but less aggressive/explosive list like the one tao posted a few pages back.

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Very accurate. I favor decks that have a strong proactive element but that do still have some reactive capabilities. A few spot removals and sweepers is all I generally need to be happy -- in my opinion, it's better to force the opponent into a position where they have the incorrect answer for the question you're posing. I'd much rather slam down a Titan and have my opponent stare angrily at the Abrupt Decay in his hand than be on the other side of the equation. Sometimes it bites me in the ass, for sure, but I can live with it.

@JBone -- I thought about trying to include a Depths / Stage package in my build (the Grave Titan was originally Primeval, actually, to facilitate it). I found it pretty clunky in testing, though. I think that the Primeval->Stage/Depths combo is a powerful one, but is one that is more suited to a BUG colored list. It's more of a control finisher than anything else.

I found that in the vast majority of matchups like Combo, Tribal Aggro all or the myriads of Aggro-Control-Denial-variations (RUG, Maverick, Team America, Staxx, Death and Taxes) one resolved big GSZ is usually enough to pull far enough ahead to win the game. Even if they deal with the Titan it will consume most of their resources and then you can just win with the stuff you have laying around. The only matchup in which I want more big threats is the control mirror (Stoneblade, Miracles, Shardless). For these matchups I try to use win conditions like Jace or Punishing Fire that are specifically good against them but also help me along the way against the other decks.

For Abrupt Decay I think that it is an absurdly good card that is also amazing against Deathblade, solid against Miracles and still okayish against Stoneblade and Shardless so I don't see any reason to not play it.

I also dislike Wishes because I already find that 15 SB slots are barely enough to stand my ground against Combo and I wouldn't know what to do with only 6-8.

Arian what's the most up to date scape list? The one in your tag or the one on the opening page? Not that there super different lol just wondering

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cadaver

Arian what's the most up to date scape list? The one in your tag or the one on the opening page? Not that there super different lol just wondering

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I don't think that they're different at all, actually. Technically the "most up to date" is that list -1 Collective Voyage -1 Virtue's Ruin -1 Thoughtseize for +1 Perish +2 Golgari Charm. But it's close enough -- the maindeck is correct, and you should be reworking / reexamining the sideboard/wishboard before every event anyway.

The one in ur tag has chameleon col. Only diff lol but ty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cadaver

The one in ur tag has chameleon col. Only diff lol but ty

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Oh. Yeah I didn't even notice that he was missing in the one in the OP. I woke up from a dream this morning and am not really actually mentally "here" yet, lol. Hopefully I wake up soon ._.

That was my bad, I took Arian's list, played a few games with it and reduced it to 60 cards. Though I'd still prefer to have 60 cards list in the OP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I don't think that they're different at all, actually. Technically the "most up to date" is that list -1 Collective Voyage -1 Virtue's Ruin -1 Thoughtseize for +1 Perish +2 Golgari Charm. But it's close enough -- the maindeck is correct, and you should be reworking / reexamining the sideboard/wishboard before every event anyway.

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Just curious, what are the charms for? (:

They are against Elves mostly, but also good against Maverick, Death & Taxes and Goblins and solid against Dredge. And Enchantress, Aluren, Belcher or the Zombardment deck if you ever face those.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tao

They are against Elves mostly, but also good against Maverick, Death & Taxes and Goblins and solid against Dredge. And Enchantress, Aluren, Belcher or the Zombardment deck if you ever face those.

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Also, Leyline of Sanctity, Omniscience, Dream Halls, and Sneak Attack. Those and Elves are the primary reasons I run them in my list.

Any updates on the punishing fire list?

Good that you are here, HoneyT, I have few questions about the Punishing lists:

- Why 3 Forest? I'd rather have a second Taiga. Never needed more than 6 basics.
- how about 2 Liliana of the Veil over the 2 Maelstrom Pulse? I liked her a lot recently.
- I like a 3/3 split between Decay and Fire better. Fire is for late game so you have time to draw it.

@nottz: this is my current list:


3 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Damnation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tao

Good that you are here, HoneyT, I have few questions about the Punishing lists:

- Why 3 Forest? I'd rather have a second Taiga. Never needed more than 6 basics.
- how about 2 Liliana of the Veil over the 2 Maelstrom Pulse? I liked her a lot recently.
- I like a 3/3 split between Decay and Fire better. Fire is for late game so you have time to draw it.

@nottz: this is my current list:


3 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Damnation

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I realize you're probably much more experienced with the deck than I am, but 6 basics just feels way too low. Even at 7, which is the most I can get away with playing in my punishing fire build, I've found I randomly get screwed out of value that actually really ends up mattering. If you draw more than two explorers (or even at 2 if you've had to fetch basics or naturally drawn them) you're often not going to find enough lands when you search and lands are incredibly important in Nic Fit. Not being able to play a deed and have enough to pop it, or not being able to play two spells that you really need because you're short some land is terrible. It also makes punishing fire just worse in general, as you can't cast it enough times even if you have groves for it. You also want lands to feed kessig wolf run. If I could I'd play a comfortable 9 basics, but alas, no such room in a three color build.

I play a list very close to HoneyT's build, except I'm trying a singleton Rakdos's Return over deathrite shaman. So far it's been exceptional, it kills planeswalkers, discards hands, and sometimes its just a giant fireball to finish out the game. I haven't seen it in any other lists, so perhaps it could be something else. Deathrite doesn't make much sense to me since it dies to deed and we already have scavenging ooze. I suppose you could make an argument that it's too slow, but both cards have their weaknesses.

I currently play no Kessig Wolf Run but that might be wrong, I am unsure. I don't want to go up to 23 lands but I also don't want to cut a colored source. Going down to 3 Groves sounds terrible, too. I found 6 basic lands to be enough if you fetch for nonbasics early on in the right matchups.

I don't like Ooze and DR Shaman. They die, every single time, that is all they do.

I know I might sound a bit repetitive with what TheArchitect called "Tao seems to value consistency above all else, cutting anything that is overly situational" (which is very true). But on the plus side I get to run 2 Thoughtseizes MD for the trouble. I find those more important than the occasional Ooze or Rakdos Return blowout.

On a general note Liliana has been MVP for me recently. She is great at winning against Omnitell if you managed to keep them from comboing in the first turns. Also of course she is still good at killing problematic creatures like Geists, Tombstalkers and 7/8 Goyfs and being a threat against Control decks.

Article on Thunian Fit (mostly the how of how I brewed it) is up here: http://www.mythicgameselmira.com/Forum/page.php?8 . I have other articles on that site too, somewhere....I think you'll have to go to the main page and just go back in the time....the articles section was just created tonight I think. The article's a week old since Mythic was upgrading their site, so I've made some changes which I have likely posted about here, but it's still a decent read, I think.

I've got some thoughts for you guys tomorrow...but tonight, bed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tao

I currently play no Kessig Wolf Run but that might be wrong, I am unsure. I don't want to go up to 23 lands but I also don't want to cut a colored source. Going down to 3 Groves sounds terrible, too. I found 6 basic lands to be enough if you fetch for nonbasics early on in the right matchups.

I don't like Ooze and DR Shaman. They die, every single time, that is all they do.

I know I might sound a bit repetitive with what TheArchitect called "Tao seems to value consistency above all else, cutting anything that is overly situational" (which is very true). But on the plus side I get to run 2 Thoughtseizes MD for the trouble. I find those more important than the occasional Ooze or Rakdos Return blowout.

On a general note Liliana has been MVP for me recently. She is great at winning against Omnitell if you managed to keep them from comboing in the first turns. Also of course she is still good at killing problematic creatures like Geists, Tombstalkers and 7/8 Goyfs and being a threat against Control decks.

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I only played Punishing Nic Fit in a few events (and finished terrible) but Wolf Run was great. I definitely think it was worth a slot. It was a lategame MVP. Turning Vets into 9/1 trampers and making thrun even more of a boss.

I like ooze in none scapeshift lists. You cant think of him as a two drop though. Hes more like a 5/6 drop that takes over the creature matchup as it grinds on. Even if I have 2 mana open and no other play, unless I want ooze to be a therapy naming removal, Ill just keep him in hand till later.

Some thoughts before work:

Ecstatic_Conch pretty much nailed it regarding the 3rd Forest. I simply do not like running less than 7 basics in any Nic Fit deck. I play rather conservatively and like to fetch basics early and still be able to get value off my Explorers. It also allows me to cast every spell in my deck off only basic lands.

I like Liliana a lot in theory, she's very good, but I hate the strain she puts on the manabase. I used to play with her in my older versions of the deck and found her super awkward to cast at times. I would definitely play another Bayou or Badlands in place of the second Taiga in your list. If I wasn't the only person around here playing Omni Show, I would consider it, but as it is, I haven't found her necessary lately.

As for the Decay/Fires split, that changes regularly based on what I expect to see. Basically, the more Tarmogoyfs, the more Decays. But right now around here there's a lot of creature, Liliana, and blade decks where I want the Punishing Fire engine online ASAP.

Not playing Kessig Wolf Run is %479810938401298 wrong. That card wins me more games than any other card in the deck. It's by far the best finisher in this deck.

As for the DRS and Ooze, I'm going to copy my response to a PM from a bit ago from a new player trying to get into the archetype who had questions about my creature base.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

Hey Newton!

That's awesome, glad you like the deck! As for your questions, I'll just list each creature and their main purpose.

Deathrite Shaman - He's a guy that not all the Nic Fit players have been impressed with. I love him. In a GSZ toolbox, there's no reason not to fit in the Swiss Army Knife that he is. He's additional ramp, early interaction vs graveyard decks, makes Snapcasters worse, clocks the combo decks while eliminating some of their routes to victory, he just does it all. The main reason for including him originally was actually vs Sneak and Show as strange as that sounds. I wanted a creature where I could cast Slaughter Games on turn 3 even if I couldn't set off an Explorer or resolve a Carpet. But he provides so much additional utility it's unreal.

Scavenging Ooze - Similar to DRS, I like having more game vs graveyard decks G1 (I never want to lose to Dredge). He also provides random benefits like shrinking KotRs, making Snapcasters bad, and making Academy Ruins worthless. All around good dude to have availible.

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Basically, I like utilizing my GSZ toolbox as just that, a toolbox.

Just some food for thought!

/barning Tim's thoughts on PFire build. Wolf Run would probably be the card that I start with if I was going to build a PFire version. I actually tend to go one higher on basics even -- I like running 8. Having a basic or two in the opening hand is always fine, and usually your first fetch vs an unknown opponent should be a basic. Then you want to get value out of at least 2 Explorers past that point. One of the easiest ways to lose with Nic Fit in my experience is to fetch / play your nonbasics t1/2/3, get them Wasted, get shut off of something important because of that, and then drown in high-drops until you're dead. This may feed into my personal approach to the deck of packing more power than most.

I do agree with Tao regarding Liliana, though. The Liliana / PFire engine is just too good, I think. PFire is the one version of Nic Fit where I actually really like Lily. But, I mean, if Tim's meta isn't really one where you need Lily, then that's cool, I guess. It's important to remember that we all have our specific metagames and personal concerns.

Rakdos Return is a pretty solid idea, honestly. It's never really dead even when you're both on topdeck mode, which is a good thing. If you can manage to disrupt with Therapies etc long enough to get up to a pile of mana, it's a dead-ringer vs combo, too. Alternatively Vet->Tower+RR@3 is awfully good.

I cut the Recurring Nightmare from Thune in favor of moving the Teeg maindeck. Teeg was always intended as an actual sideboard card anyway, not a wish target, and coupled with the Safekeeper maindeck he can help randomly steal some game ones vs combo. One of my friends has been pushing hard for me to try a Sanguine Bond in that slot, arguing that it gives the deck a way to actually win the game...and that even when you're not going infinite, the deck still habitually gains 8-12 life without actually going out of your way to try to. I'm pretty sure that I don't like the idea, but I figured I'd at least toss it out there. He is annoyingly correct that just going infinite doesn't actually win the game -- they could have a chump blocker into a sweeper, or they can just Jace you out or RIP/Helm you or go "more infinite" ala OmniTell. It's uncommon, in my experience, but it does happen. Sometimes you get "that guy" who can't actually beat you, but who insists on playing it out even though you have infinite life and he can't deal with it. While I don't think that Sanguine Bond is the correct answer, it would be admittedly nice to have something to do with the extra life that the deck gains aside from using it as a temporal resource.

- I don't see the point of having a toolbox of creatures that die when they enter the battlefield. Decay, Swords or Bolt, they will have something. If you wait for 5 mana to play Ooze to get around Bolt you might as well play another 5-drop instead. One of them is okay to combat graveyards, but both is too much.

- I agree with replacing the Taiga in my list. A second Taiga is just unnecessary with 4 Groves already.

- I'll try Kessig Wolf Run again.

- Liliana is nice because the deck plays a lot of removal and she has the ability to turn from a removal into a threat.

@Arian: I just noticed that. Why are all your lists 61 cards?

@Tao

I think Deathrite and Ooze serve different purposes, even though their capabilities overlap. I like Ooze because I feel like this deck needs a two-drop aggressor that doesn't suck in the late game. I keep him in my MD because it's a backup plan if I can't ramp. Between the life gain and the eventual threat, he can be a big player even with Deathrite. He's more of a last resort than main plan and would be on the chopping block before Deathrite. That said, there's a dredge player in my meta and Scavenging Ooze is the tits against him.

Deathrite, like Tim pointed out, is half for the ramp, half for the swiss-army knife he comes with. I don't personally run Sylvan Ranger or Sakura Tribe Elder, I don't think Punishing Nic Fit needs them - but if I can get an 'oh-shit-ramp' with a little reach attached - sounds good to me. I also don't think they make one another redundant because, like you pointed out, they're fragile.

I wrote to Tim when he first started incorporating Deathrite because I didn't like him, but as I played with him more and more, he grew on me. Even though he's a one-drop, I don't normally cast him before the late-game unless I'm using him as a backup ramp.

Been working on a Sunthunefit list. I've probably fell too in love with the Thune+Feeder synergy, and most likely went too far here. Thune is White, and when I play white in my nic fit lists I am playing Sun Titan. This card has won me many games, and has really nice synergy with this deck I've brewed. (Or rather, It's a remake of Arianrhod Thunefit list). I haven't tested this pile of shit (I don't have high expectations, hence shit) yet but I'm looking forward to it.

This is how the list looks like, and explanations under:

CREATURES (20)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Spike Feeder
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Sun Titan
ENCHANTMENTS (3)
3 Pernicious Deed
SORCERIES (11)
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (24)
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Dust Bowl
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Phyrexian Tower
SIDEBOARD
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Extirpate
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Carpet of Flowers

Qasali Pridemage + Suntitan = Unreal against Mud (Which can turn out be a hard matchup. Not anymore!). Destorys equipments, affinity, etc

Knight of Reliquary = This is something I've never played in a nic fit before. Because it dies to deed too easily, and we already have good finishers. But! This time around I'm playing 2x Sun Titan to revive it and I'm playin knight because I want Karakas and Ith. These two lands have always been really good for me (might be because I'm playing in a meta full of reanimate and various Emrakul decks.) I'm still not sure what other lands that could be useful to fetch with it. I added Dust Bowl because I figured long games it could probably do some work, as well as the stronghold. Stronghold being able to revive Thune etc is big. I'm really not sure about the Dust Bowl.. Anyone have suggestions on lands I could add?

Sylvan Safekeeper. I really believe in this guy. Protecting our combo, our titans etc. Also pretty good with Ooze against reanmiater as they tend to have bounce spells after sb

Kitchen finks.. spike feeder.. = additonal food for sun titan (and ofc their synergy together)

Archangel of thune + spike feeder = the combo win

Pernicious Deed + Sun titan = Congrats, you pretty much won all fair legacy decks

Sun titan + Eternal witness = Value. Return Thune, sigarda and anything else thats in your GY

Sun Titan + lands = You can get all lands back that got wastelanded etc

Sun Titan can pretty much return everything we have. This card is really boss

7 discard MD = I've never been disappointed of extra discard MD.

SB

Garruk+Elspeth = Against Miracles and other decks that have tough time dealing with planeswalkers

Abrupt Decays mainly against RUG. I hate losing games where they put delver turn1, turn2 flip and then counter everything I try to do

Rest is self explanatory I guess

In my mind, this sounds like a really fun and interesting deck to play. Granted, this list probably gonna suck (mainly becuase I made it) but still gonna be fun to try it out