2U [Intuition] + 2U [Ruins] + 3 [Shackles] + 2 [activation] = 9UU. Sayin'. You could play Sway of the Stars for less mana. :)Originally Posted by Deep6er
I thought about this. Agreed, in my mind almost immediately, and then I went to make some Tomato soup and am now going to disagree.Remember, that while Vorosh-still may approach it with similar cards, It's the Fear approaches it with a completely different mindset. Intuition and Standstill are vastly different cards and allow for vastly different approaches to things.
Both Vorosh are ITF are control decks with quasi-combo elements; CB+Top and Crucible / Wasteland (Vorosh) or Intuition / Ruins / Stronghold (ITF). In other words, I wouldn't confuse tactics with strategy. Standstill is trying to do a similar thing as Intuition: getting what you need to mitigate some problem (some form of menacing permanent [creatures, etc.] or something dangerous coming from your opponent's hand) that Deed/EE/StP or CB, CSpell, Force can provide.
Intuition is gaming to set you up with the tools you need; Standstill is gaming to draw you into a similar set of tools. I do agree that Intuition is much more subtle and has a lot more room for customization, at the cost of being slower.
Anyway, I would argue that Standstill and Intuition are performing similar roles here. Neither specifically do anything on their own or directly have any effect on the game; they're catalysts for other parts of the deck that do have an affect.
Just to continue the thought above, and not wanting to get into some pointless semantical debate, I think Vorosh and ITF are more similar than you realize. Both are -- as I said above -- about controlling the game through some means (Deed, CB) and then winning with Tarmogoyf.I really don't think that this deck compares well with Landstill. The aims are just different. It's the Fear is significantly more versatile in its approach to controlling and winning the game that it's like talking about apples and oranges.
(Don't let the Factories throw you off. Back in the day, I had a 1-of Factory as an alt. win condition with Intuition + LFTL in Tog, before Tarmogoyf was printed. With Standstill being added, it seemed natural to just max the card. Truly though, 4/5 games are won with Mr. Goyf. Factory mainly has some nice synergy with other parts of the deck.)
I definitely agree here. Supporting four colors with only two lands that tap for colorless is a hell of a lot different than supporting four colors with 6-7 lands that tap for colorless. This is a valid point.Also, you have SEVEN lands that don't tap for colored mana. I have two. You rely on your lands to help you win the game (attacking). I don't. All mine need to do is tap for mana. That's it. I argue that the miniscule amount of damage that they do to your manabase is well worth it.
Definitely, I've argued the same point from your side too. Shackles is card advantage for 2.5 the investment as Edict. If it's worth the cost, and you're in a match where you have the time to pull it off, it's definitely worth it, since it totally dominates the board once active. Though it does cost 3+2 instead of 1B.Vedalken Shackles vs. Diabolic Edict is an entirely different classification. While they both DO fit into the realm of "creature-control" Vedalken Shackles is ALSO card advantage.
Not to be redundant, but I'm trying to look at these things from the control player's perspective, not as a "Landstill player" or something.I'm reasonably certain that the decks are different enough to warrant a different look as opposed to looking at it through the Landstill players lens. No offense.
Agreed again. It's certainly a fun once it's up and running, but it's slow as hell and not really any better than a Fact or Fiction for a lot less effort.Also, the Lonely Sandbar trick is bad. THAT DEFINITELY takes too much time. The danger with Intuition is definitely the Danger of Cool Things. I've tried to keep it as focused as possible while still maintaining that versatility.
In Dave's defense, I'd argue that Intuition serves as the deck's draw.2.) The lack of carddraw.
Dude, this is the guy who brought us "Solidarity," a monoblue storm combo decks. It should be no surprise. Though, I totally agree. :)3.) The name.
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