Quote Originally Posted by GreenOne View Post
I never had problem reaching 3 storm before playing Grapeshot if there was no Canonist involved. At the time (when i was playing it), I had trouble getting my Pyroclasm countered though.


If there are a couple Canonists beating on you you probably are already low on life by the time you wish and play spree. If the opponent then plays a chalice here's the scenario:
- He probably just topdecked the chalice, otherwise why should't he play it making much more difficult for you to fuck his board?
- You have a second burning wish and have the resources and time to wish for Spree, play it and not die meanwhile.
- You sided in 2 sprees and didn't draw one, don't have Mystical too.
- You can't combo through Chalice.
- You didn't combo the turn you played Spree, killing the canonists.
- Oh, yeah, and he's also playing Canonists+Chalices like... no deck does?.

This can't be a point.
Pyroclasm is better against tribal decks and overall worse against counters+bears decks (unless bears=canonist).
Pyroclasm can be better against multiple hatebears where Grapeshot can be better against a single one (I can storm 2 and play grapeshot so even with a counterspell the bear is dead).

EDIT:

Actually, you're right. Against your deck they can just name Ad Nauseam, leaving you with an engine that gives them 7 cards. Or they can name Burning Wish, knowing that their bear will chant forever, cause you have no way to remove it.
You're playing against bad players, Burning Wish should be countered to protect the "hate bear" from removal and prevent Empty the Warrens, Grape Shot just opens you up to both a counter on Burning Wish and Stifle on Grape Shot.

Ethersworn Canonist + Chalice of the Void = Affinity, White Weenie, GBW Rock and sometimes Landstill. Pyroclasm > Ethersworn Canonist is enough to justify Pyroclasm > Grape Shot, that slot is for "hate bears."

A "hate bear" or a couple of "hate bears" aren't always problematic, because I have walls.

No, the opponent can't just drop Meddling Mage on Ad Nauseam, Infernal Tutor -> Burning Wish -> Diminishing Returns and Infernal Tutor -> Burning Wish -> Empty the Warrens cost 1 more (and Tinder Wall upped the mana threshold) and more importantly Infernal Tutor -> Burning Wish -> Ill Gotten Gains is still possible. You can always cut a land for a MD Empty the Warrens regardless, but the point is TES was designed to ignore Meddling Mage on Tendrils of Agony, so putting Meddling Mage on Tendrils of Agony is really stupid.