Amonkhet, a new Plane for the next Block

[Lord Seth]

As Foretold is in this set, and they know it's fucking stupid and broken.

In what way? I know a few people have freaked out but it's looking more and more like another Temporal Mastery to me.

Pro-Tip, the last time they changed the rules or pre-emptively banned something even before release was Mind's Desire, which was absolutely broken in the formats it was banned in.

They change the rules plenty of times before something gets released; heck, all rules changes inherently have to occur before something gets released. I have no idea what you're on about here.

Also, Mind's Desire was banned after Scourge was released. Scourge was released in May, its banning was announced in June and became effective in July.

The dressed up the rule change in Split cards as something else, but straight up, it was because As Foretold is another card that slipped through their super-rigorous FFL testing, much like the CopyCat combo.

I'm a bit confused as to how As Foretold is particularly affected by the split card change, at least in Standard (which is all the FFL tests for). Perhaps the argument is it could've been used with Aftermath. I'm not sure how well that synergy would've worked under the old rules, but because the Aftermath part can only be cast from the graveyard, the only possible synergy I'd see was the ability to cast the more expensive Aftermath side from the lower CMC of the "normal" side via As Foretold, which isn't all that amazing of a synergy (you have to get the card into your graveyard, then get a few counters on As Foretold).

Or are you alluding to something else? I feel rather confused by your post.

[MaximumC]

I'm a bit confused as to how As Foretold is particularly affected by the split card change, at least in Standard (which is all the FFL tests for). Perhaps the argument is it could've been used with Aftermath. I'm not sure how well that synergy would've worked under the old rules, but because the Aftermath part can only be cast from the graveyard, the only possible synergy I'd see was the ability to cast the more expensive Aftermath side from the lower CMC of the "normal" side via As Foretold, which isn't all that amazing of a synergy (you have to get the card into your graveyard, then get a few counters on As Foretold).

Or are you alluding to something else? I feel rather confused by your post.

As Foretold is not as good as people are saying it is, no, but it did lose a lot of gas with the change to Split cards. Just like Brain in a Jar and Isochron Scepter, As Foretold previously could have cast both halves of a Fuse card when it was ticked up to only the lesser half. That's probably what he's on about.

So, like, under the prior rules you could play As Foretold on turn 3 and then on turn 5 you could cast Beck//Call. (Except you won't live that long because you decided to play those cards in Legacy.)

[Dice_Box]

The place that Split cards were making a splash was Modern. There was a reanimator deck using Breaking // Entering and Expertise cards. Also Bird Brain was a deck using Brain in a Jar (Still in the running for least interesting name you can think of for a card that could have been named something sweet) and Beck // Call.

If you asked me what was the reasoning behind the change, I would say it was the new reanimator deck showed that unless they fixed the trick they had to limit themselves on design space. Because all those cards happened to be very easy to abuse in Modern. Also, not printing cards they want to because of a trick they can fix with a rules update seemed to be unappealing to Wizards. Personally I do not blame them.

[MaximumC]

Personally I do not blame them.

I do. They wrecked a cool rules interaction.

That said, changing the Comp Rules is absolutely, 100% within their purview. They've done it before, they'll do it again, it's fine. It's on par with bannings and restrictions. It happens.

Its only when they start doing post-printing development of cards (ala power level errata or "original intent" errata) that my jimmies really start getting rustled.

[Aggro_zombies]

There are probably way better 5-drops than this, simply due the lack of protection.

I don't get what story this card is trying to tell. It's a random hodge-podge of abilities. Haste and flash? Flash obsoletes haste in all but a small number of corner cases, though I guess with instant speed draw in the set (cycling) you'll have those come up more often. Double strike and vigilance? Okay, so a red ability and a green ability, that's fine. But white to untap another dude? Huh? Why? It couldn't be green? The random white mana symbol in the text box looks so out of place. And what's the concept for this character? She's got a bunch of abilities that imply speed or surprise (flash, haste) and combat prowess (double strike, vigilance), so she's...what, some kind of super warrior? Who dissents somehow?

This card is bizarre. I don't even think it's good, it just bugs me.

[UnderwaterGuy]

I think it's an EDH card and the white is to make her a three-color general.

Pretty weak design even though it looks like a reasonable general mechanically.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Cool card, kind of a mashup between Nevermore and Runed Halo

[Barook]

She's got a bunch of abilities that imply speed or surprise (flash, haste) and combat prowess (double strike, vigilance), so she's...what, some kind of super warrior?

Reminds me of Radha during Time Spiral block who was hailed as some kind of super special awesome warrior. And then we got this nonsensical PoS: Radha, Heir to Keld

[TsumiBand]

Reminds me of Radha during Time Spiral block who was hailed as some kind of super special awesome warrior. And then we got this nonsensical PoS: Radha, Heir to Keld

Pretty sure that when it was printed you could still float mana through steps so it was slightly less bad than it is now (but only slightly)

[Lord Seth]

As Foretold is not as good as people are saying it is, no, but it did lose a lot of gas with the change to Split cards. Just like Brain in a Jar and Isochron Scepter, As Foretold previously could have cast both halves of a Fuse card when it was ticked up to only the lesser half. That's probably what he's on about.

So, like, under the prior rules you could play As Foretold on turn 3 and then on turn 5 you could cast Beck//Call. (Except you won't live that long because you decided to play those cards in Legacy.)

But things like Beck//Call with As Foretold can't work in Standard because Beck//Call isn't legal in Standard, and they were claiming this is something they missed in testing for Standard.

The most you could do with As Foretold that would be changed by the ruling is you can't pull the trick where you use it to cast one of the Aftermath cards at its cheaper regular CMC, then have it cast the actual Aftermath part of it instead to cheat costs a little. Problem is, that's not that particularly strong of an interaction when you consider it takes a while to actually pay off, and I'm not even sure it worked that way under the old rules, as the Aftermath cards do specifically say you can only cast the Aftermath part from your graveyard. In that case, the change to the split cards did nothing to As Foretold in Standard.

[Ace/Homebrew]

This card is bizarre. I don't even think it's good, it just bugs me.

I'm gonna assume Bolas is still . Based on the flavor text, the character appears to be the biggest anti-Bolas force native to the plane. If Ajani VS Bolas set precedent, then Naya is the foe of Grixis... so that probably explains the tacked on ability.

Vigilance and the untap ability are to abuse Exert.
Flash and haste takes advantage of cycling, as you mentioned.
Double strike for value I guess.

[Aggro_zombies]

I'm gonna assume Bolas is still . Based on the flavor text, the character appears to be the biggest anti-Bolas force native to the plane. If Ajani VS Bolas set precedent, then Naya is the foe of Grixis... so that probably explains the tacked on ability.

Vigilance and the untap ability are to abuse Exert.
Flash and haste takes advantage of cycling, as you mentioned.
Double strike for value I guess.

I get all of that, it just feels like one of those cards the advanced algorithm for RoboRosewater would make.

[Barook]

More Deserts!



Grasping Dunes seems pretty okay. Not sure into which Legacy deck it could fit, though.

[Jain_Mor]

For the cycling deck of your dreams?

[Gheizen64]

Fluctuator engine! Elegiggle. Seems somewhat more playable if you have a discard engine of some sort with no mana costs and do somethign with that. Aka unplayable. I'll see someone playing a skirge familiar pile with this at least once i think.

There's a 4/3 minotaur for 1R that discard a card on ETB. It's pretty deece, even if unplayable in today's legacy (4/3 for 2? More like 5/5 for 1). I really wish the format was a bit slower again, ban petal plz. This would have been so good in TnT back then.

Also to whoever mentioned stone rain. We have a card almost strictly better in this format, Cryoclasm. 3 damage ain't no joke and hit every deck except elves.

Grasping Dunes can sacrifice your own Explorers! Kappo.

[Darkenslight]

Fluctuator engine! Elegiggle. Seems somewhat more playable if you have a discard engine of some sort with no mana costs and do somethign with that. Aka unplayable. I'll see someone playing a skirge familiar pile with this at least once i think.

There's a 4/3 minotaur for 1R that discard a card on ETB. It's pretty deece, even if unplayable in today's legacy (4/3 for 2? More like 5/5 for 1). I really wish the format was a bit slower again, ban petal plz. This would have been so good in TnT back then.

Also to whoever mentioned stone rain. We have a card almost strictly better in this format, Cryoclasm. 3 damage ain't no joke and hit every deck except elves.

Grasping Dunes can sacrifice your own Explorers! Kappo.

It also works to make a BR Seismic Assault deck (Shadows of the Grave). Just throw a ton of lands, cast this, throw more lands.

[Gheizen64]

It also works to make a BR Seismic Assault deck (Shadows of the Grave). Just throw a ton of lands, cast this, throw more lands.

4 Fluctuator
4 Seismic Assault
4 Shadow of the grave
4 Dark ritual
4 manamorphose
4 Lotus Petal
4 E. Tutor
4 Thoughtseize
28 cyclelands

Format broken!

[Barook]

It also works to make a BR Seismic Assault deck (Shadows of the Grave). Just throw a ton of lands, cast this, throw more lands.

SotG + Assault + 5 lands is lethal - probably the easiest way to get some mileage out of it.

Are there any other ways to break it? There's also LED, but with a net gain of a single mana an extra card, it doesn't seem very good.

[kombatkiwi]

Infernal Tutor, resp crack LED
Search for Shadow of the Grave
Return all your rituals that you discarded plus some other piece of gas (You can't even return the infernal tutor you just played, natch, why didn't you just cast the rituals from your hand in the first place, double natch)
Go off?

Seems pretty bad lol

If you can get to the point where you are rebuying multiple Street Wraiths with it then potentially you have something going there but you are going to be paying a lot of life and you probably aren't going to have enough lands to Edge of Autumn in multiples.

None of the 'free discard' effects (Skirge Familiar, Zombie Infestation, Seismic Assault etc) seem worth it either.

Maybe if Frantic Search was unbanned...

[Echelon]

Shadow of the Grave is oddly worded - how does one cycle a card without discarding it? It's part of the friggin' cost of cycling a card (i.e. any card you cycle falls under the clause "cards you discarded this turn" - therefor there's no need to specifically mention cycling on SotG).