Amonkhet, a new Plane for the next Block

[Aggro_zombies]

I think a lot of the cards do fit together well, but got wrecked by someone turning the back half of instants into sorceries and adding 2 to the mana cost. It's like they were avoiding people playing combat tricks from the graveyard at all costs. I suspect the cards were much stronger, and then got turned to turds to make them limited-friendly. (They also gave the fuse cards a whack with that nerf-bat, so it's plausible that those are considered a mistake now.)

One of the articles on the Mothership during previews - I forget which one - said the logic behind having two different card types on some of the Aftermath cards was to buff Delirium in Standard. So there's that.

Combat tricks with cheap flashback costs have historically been huge gotchas. They're hard to play around even when you know they're coming because the opportunity cost of leaving the mana open is so low, and if you don't know they're coming - because you forgot, because your opponent discarded the card instead of casting it and didn't announce what they binned, because they've collapsed their graveyard to obscure its contents, etc. - then they feel super bad when you get hit with one. It kind of reminds of playing BNG-THS-THS Limited against a GW opponent. There were so many good combat tricks at two mana that it got to the point where you just had to cross your fingers and go for it if they had up and cards in hand because you couldn't predict what they had and the variety was such that you couldn't play around all of them.

Anyway: cards you cast out of the graveyard have a premium attached to them because WotC is still feeling the burn of Buyback - that is, cards that are built-in X-for-1s need to be taxed heavily to avoid turning into crushing card advantage juggernauts. They ruined Cipher for basically that reason, and they ruined a lot of these cards for that reason too. It's a bummer, but it's how things work.

[Di]

I do think Commit//Memory is sort of nice. It lets you counter a spell or remove a permanent in response to a fetch land, and Torrential Gearhulk gets to play an EOT Timetwister for free. Perhaps not at the legacy power level, but def nice. As for the design issues you pointed out -> those are not exclusive to the aftermath cards unfortunately. It's been like this for years :/

Does that actually work with Torrential Gearhulk? I thought they changed the split card rules to not pull off this sort of thing anymore, especially considering Memory is a sorcery.

[bruizar]

Does that actually work with Torrential Gearhulk? I thought they changed the split card rules to not pull off this sort of thing anymore, especially considering Memory is a sorcery.

I'm fairly sure this should work. They only changed the converted mana cost but you can still choose either the instant or the sorcery part of the card because all T.Gearhulk checks is if the card is an instant.

[Ronald Deuce]

As for the design issues you pointed out -> those are not exclusive to the aftermath cards unfortunately. It's been like this for years :/

I'm right with you there. That's the thing that bothers me; it'd be nice to see more cards that both showcased new mechanics/design space and also could see play in other formats than Standard or Limited, rather than just cards that fall into one category or the other. This is a mistake Wizards has made consistently.

[Aggro_zombies]

They say they only test for Standard and Limited due to those being the highest volume formats and also the ones that are easiest to test for. Generally, the majority of cards that make the jump out of Standard are the ones that were power-level mistakes. It's really rare that you get cards like Ad Nauseam, that do basically nothing in Standard but are linchpins of decks in larger formats, and IIRC the last time they admitted to setting out to make a card for Legacy that went through a Standard-legal set, we got Mental Misstep.

[bruizar]

I'm right with you there. That's the thing that bothers me; it'd be nice to see more cards that both showcased new mechanics/design space and also could see play in other formats than Standard or Limited, rather than just cards that fall into one category or the other. This is a mistake Wizards has made consistently.

I've been working on a card game myself for a long while now and from that experience I can tell you magic is never gonna go back to how it was. They don't use real world references the way they used to anymore and that's a big reason why AN/AQ/LG/DK felt magical.

[Barook]

They say they only test for Standard and Limited due to those being the highest volume formats and also the ones that are easiest to test for. Generally, the majority of cards that make the jump out of Standard are the ones that were power-level mistakes. It's really rare that you get cards like Ad Nauseam, that do basically nothing in Standard but are linchpins of decks in larger formats, and IIRC the last time they admitted to setting out to make a card for Legacy that went through a Standard-legal set, we got Mental Misstep.

Actually, Abrupt Decay designed to help Legacy with Counterbalance.

[TsumiBand]

One of the articles on the Mothership during previews - I forget which one - said the logic behind having two different card types on some of the Aftermath cards was to buff Delirium in Standard. So there's that.

I like how converted mana costs needed to change when split cards are off-stack but multiple conflicting card types is fine and all part of the plan. "Oh it's an Instantsorcery, that makes all the sense"

[Claymore]

How does Soul-Scar Mage interact with protection effects?

As far as I know, Protection is a replacement effect. Soul-Scar is also a replacement, so the controller of the card that would be effected chooses the order of the effects to apply. They'll apply protection first, so no damage is remaining for the soul-scar mage to convert.

[joven]

As far as I know, Protection is a replacement effect. Soul-Scar is also a replacement, so the controller of the card that would be effected chooses the order of the effects to apply. They'll apply protection first, so no damage is remaining for the soul-scar mage to convert.

As far as I know Protection was changed long ago to just preventing the damage. And as far as I understand it Damage Prevention happens before damage can be replaced.
So, same result I guess, unless you do something so that damage can't be prevented.

[MaximumC]

I like how converted mana costs needed to change when split cards are off-stack but multiple conflicting card types is fine and all part of the plan. "Oh it's an Instantsorcery, that makes all the sense"

We have land creatures, land artifacts, and artifact creatures. Why is an instant sorcery so divergent?

[morgan_coke]

We have land creatures, land artifacts, and artifact creatures. Why is an instant sorcery so divergent?

Because it's new. Duh.

[Lemnear]

Actually, Abrupt Decay designed to help Legacy with Counterbalance.

Yeah, it just failed to do so. All it and DRS did was tinting the whole format BGx vs Miracles

[Ronald Deuce]

We have land creatures, land artifacts, and artifact creatures. Why is an instant sorcery so divergent?

I think the big difference is that there's going to be confusion over whether a spell is both a Sorcery and an Instant at the same time, or whether it's one or the other when it's on the stack. It's similar to the problem with converted mana costs. I'm not sure how often this will be a problem realistically (needing to be in the graveyard is likely to deter confusion over which half people are allowed to cast), but the big difference between permanents with multiple types and split cards with different types is that there's less confusion over when a permanent is its card types, even for permanents that can "change type" (e.g., Mishra's Factory).

[rufus]

I think the big difference is that there's going to be confusion over whether a spell is both a Sorcery and an Instant at the same time, or whether it's one or the other when it's on the stack. It's similar to the problem with converted mana costs. I'm not sure how often this will be a problem realistically (needing to be in the graveyard is likely to deter confusion over which half people are allowed to cast)...

We do have Invasive Surgery in standard which almost seems designed to cause confusion with these instant//sorcery split cards since it brings up name and type issues. I don't think there are any Guile effects though.

[BenBleiweiss]

Looking through the spoiler now.. yeah, it's official, Cycling is straight up Blue/Black this time. There's a much worse version of Lightning Rift in black that drains your opponent for 2 and costs 3 to cast, 1 to activate. There's also a black 1 drop that puts -1/-1 counters on creatures when you cycle. And a white Disenchant for 3 that exiles and cycles for 2. That is an amazing card and will see maindeck play in Legacy.

Is it much worse? I actually think it's one of the better cards in the set (not for Legacy, but for Standard and potentially Modern). If it just triggered on cycling, I'd be right there with you. However, since it triggers on cycling OR discard, I think it could be part of some sort of engine deck. Again - not advocating this for Legacy, but there's starting to be a critical mass of effects that could make for a deck in Modern. Seismic Assault, Faith of the Devoted, Molten Vortex + Shadow of the Grave.

[Barook]

Rules question:

If you discard with Skirge Familiar to generate mana, you get it instantly (due to being a mana ability) while the trigger is put on the stack and then you can use the mana to pay for the trigger of Faith of the Devoted, right?

[rufus]

If you discard with Skirge Familiar to generate mana, you get it instantly (due to being a mana ability) while the trigger is put on the stack and then you can use the mana to pay for the trigger of Faith of the Devoted, right?

Yes. (The mana ability resolves before triggers do. I'm not sure "instantly" is the best way to describe that considering the "instant" card type is a thing.)

[TsumiBand]

We have land creatures, land artifacts, and artifact creatures. Why is an instant sorcery so divergent?

Forgetting that for 99% of cases an "Instant Sorcery" is mechanically overloaded and doesn't actually make it fundamentally different from an Instant? It's just stupid from the standpoint that split cards used to always just be two spells on one card - like I don't know how combining mana costs as a total converted mana cost makes sense when individual elements of both cards are still considered individually.

Like, the only reason we're not combining their card types into a weird single-word card type is because apparently "instant and sorcery" is easier to understand than "cmc 2 and 6", I just think it's silly that words aren't confusing in this regard but numbers are totally flummoxing people.

[Claymore]

Yeah I don't get split cards in general, stupid mechanic that bends the rules. Problem with Gearhulk and other types of effects is that you target the 'instant' half of the card, but play the 'sorcery' half. Or Invasive surgery that targets the 'instant' card half, and successfully resolves because the inactive aftermath portion is a sorcery.