Agreed but I've been still happy with it. Sure it has its drawbacks, and with a suitable line of play its just another card in the deck that advances our strategy. Personally im not looking to slam a Chandra or confluence every turn 3 or 4. Just dont forget that those taxing counters are also costing you resources. Keeping them stranded in hand plus landing your threat is card advantage we need.
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I agree that turning the opposing counters into dead cards is card advantage for us. However, I feel that naming 1 creature type does not turn their counters into dead cards because they can counter our other stuff. Most of the time, I feel good when the opponent counters 1 of my creatures, because that means 1 less counter in their hand for F.Confluence, Chandra and E.Bridge.Originally Posted by jandax
What is your md creature package and what do you typically name to Cavern?
I have typically:
MD:
4-5 human
4 goblin
4 devil
1-2 dragon
0-2 horror
SB:
0-2 horror
0-2 elemental
My list is posted above. And im strictly naming human and goblin. As an example in my short write-up I stuck a magus to take over a game thanks to a cavern. Oracle text of moggcatcher states human as a creature type as well, and I've had people try to counter a cavern played moggcatcher. On human obv.
As to when I name what, depends on if I am trying to beat down or play control. Totally dependant on game situation
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8 Human (Magus + Moggcatcher)
8 Goblin (4 Rabble + 4 toolbox: Kiki-Jiki, Settler, Siege-Gang, Stingscourger)
It seems.
Good to know that Moggcatcher is a Human!
8 creatures per type is a lot more tribal than my 4-5 per type max, and definitely makes Cavern have more upsides. Uncounterable Moggcatcher can easily win games by itself. I am running more individually strong Creatures with more redundancy, less tribalism, so Cavern does not fit my "diversified creature type monored stompy" build as well as your Goblin Stompy list.
I've had an Imperial Painter name Moggcatcher into their Revoker blindly in g2. Fun stuff is, I wasn't running any in my list.
I've found Cavern of Souls to be a great addition if you're playing tribal humans (Magus, Scab-Clan, Pia, Pia + Kiran, Flamespeaker, etc., etc., etc.) without cards like Koth or Chandra.
I've tried Cavern in lists that split between Goblins and Humans and honestly I lost as many games from Cavern naming the opposite creature type as I've won from having the creatures be uncounterable... Plus the frustration of having Cavern and Tomb on board with a hand full of Blood Moons.
So... good card is good, but for each creature type added (or non-creature red card) you risk the danger of too many cool things.
I had a 1-of Cavern when Miracles existed (Regent + Cavern + Chalice = impossible situation) but I wouldn't mind cutting it now since in general permission is receding to a point where there is no opposing softlock. No guarantee though since it can be clutch.
Because it's clutch, that's why I still run it. I would also consider shaving down one copy. The awkwardness of not casting the big red spells has come up but not enough to turn me off
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Fnm report:
Result 3-1
Round1: eldrazi 2-0
Game 1: on the play, saw an eldrazi temple then turn 2 blood moon. Beat them down.
Game 2: Get blood moon and ensnaring bridge down then beat down.
Round 2: white prison
Game 1: I scoop because he has the lock (humility, trading post, wasteland, crucible, etc) and we only have 5 mins left on the round.
Game 2: I get mana screwed and get beaten down by elspeth tokens.
Note: he is extremely experienced with prison decks and told me that with experience I'll know what hands are good to keep.
Round 3: mono red sneak
Game 1: I get magus and blood moon down, he plays godo getting batters kill. I get bridge down and have rabblemaster in hand trying to get rabblemaster as the last card in hand. Kill him with chandra.
Game 2: I run a risky 7 (no hate but a lot of pressure). His 7 is almost a perfect hand but he mulligans it. Ends up mulliganing down to 3 (all lands). Turn 1 rabblemaster and when he plays pyromancy and I needle it, he scoops.
Round 4: storm
Game 1: got magus down T1 and then chalice on 1 and then on 0.
Game 2: trinisphere and moon prevented him from doing anything while I beat him down
What are people's thoughts on glorybringer? And what match ups do thunderbreak regents come in?
Nice report. Stormbreathe Dragon is just better as a 5 mana flyer and has protection from white. Although 5 mana is a lot so maybe just play 1.
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I'm building the deck right now and have it in proxies. I'm running 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar...has anyone tried Hazoret the Fervent as the 4 drop? I've only played about 20 games with the deck so far so maybe I'm not seeing the strength of the Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
EDIT: I found the answer about 5 pages back... would still love to hear any additional feedback though.
Last edited by aus9tin24; 05-07-2017 at 03:03 AM.
I've had about 12 games and my experience with P&K is extremely good. They are very robust and the 2 Thopters are game winners.
The ability to sac any artifact at instant speed is useful for stopping cards like Echoing Truth and maelstrom pulse. Or just getting the last points of damage in.
I've won several games by getting bridge down and having 0 cards in hand and not playing a card until 2nd main so I can swing overhead with the Thopters.
In many match ups the flying is basically unblockable.
With regards to hazoret I'm going to wait and see. I'm not convinced but willing to be proved wrong.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/635056#online
playtesting hard and got some 5-0 on magic online and tons of 4-1 but still failed to get the updated list to a 5-0... :P
http://i.imgur.com/gi7kqbk.jpg
will be updating the matchup section of the mtg salvation primer soon...
Hilarious that they labeled your deck UBR because of the Faerie Macabres and Mindbreak Traps in the sideboard.
Care to talk on your use of Karakas? Seems odd in a 8 Moon deck.
well the karakas are mainly vs reanimator + show and tell -> ill sb out all moon-effects... if you have to play weird games vs nicfit or other decks playing tons of basics karakas + pia or jaya is insane... :-P
(most of the time try to not play it till they put their fatty into play)
still have to play more cuz some matchups ive still no real clue how to sb correctly or which gameplan is best... in some matchups you can keep slow hands and grind your opp instead of running into fow after using fast-mana... that said for most matchups it is pretty much set in stone how to sb...
atm testing stuff like sb around 2 karakas vs delver just to not get screwed or pyrokinesis vs reanimator if they play sire or vs storm if they are on the goblin plan...
then stuff like trini on the play and sb them out on the draw depending on the matchup ofc but most of the time vs control...
seems good in your deck but Jaya Ballard might be better, jaya is better under ensnaring bridge but hazoret is a monster when you don't have bridge
actually you have to keep in mind that you will have a lot of games without a lock cuz your stuff gets forced or destroyed = hazoret has to do something to the board if that happens = i think it is not playable in my lists at least... if you have a lock it does not matter that much how you kill your opp but we have to do it quick to prevent recovering... if it would say can not attack or can not block i might play it but else i see myself not able to empty my hand to 0 in a lot of cases...seems good in your deck but Jaya Ballard might be better, jaya is better under ensnaring bridge but hazoret is a monster when you don't have bridge
you need 1 or less cards in your hand, not that hard to achieve imo
well try it yourself but i personally dont want to be in a situation drawing him or having him doing nothing cuz im holding shocks confluence or something else...
What are people's thoughts on eidolon of the great revel?
My thinking is that he hurts the opponent even if chalice counters their spell, he's a beatstick and he will be the target of our opponent's removal before our other creatures.
Many creatures featured in winning lists are way better than eidolon, it doesn't force through our strategy in a productive way
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