[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[LOLWut]

0 Storm decks in the top 64 of GP Vegas. Anomaly?

[Bryant Cook]

0 Storm decks in the top 64 of GP Vegas. Anomaly?

Myself, Rodrigo and Kai all went 11-4.

I lost the last round, if I had won, I would've been 23rd place (my opponent was there). Instead I ended at 80th.

There was a lot of hate, I faced four Chalice of the Void decks and a lot of Reanimator.

[movadomk5]

I wrote up a quick tournament report after going 10-5 at Vegas

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

[CabalTherapy]

0 Storm decks in the top 64 of GP Vegas. Anomaly?

Not at all surprising.
At least how I see things is that Grixis Delver is/was the most played deck. Usually Grixis is capable of winning against storm and other way around depending on what players are drawing in their first turns (t1 Shaman? Therapies main?, and so on). Nevertheless, I'd say that it's easier to win with a Delver deck against storm even by playing not perfectly but not other way around. People came prepared because of the false idea that with Miracles gone Storm gets better, which is a widely accepted notion, thus packing more SB cards against it. Further storm can be easily taken out by some random draws of random decks with Chalice, BR/UB Reanimator, or even turn 2 kills from Elves or whatever. In the end it's difficult to keep ones performance high over 13-15 rounds and have enough luck to dodge bad MUs/ keep good hands.

[Silent Requiem]

The same thing happened after the banning of Mental Misstep. Everyone assumed that Storm would go wild, so they filled their sideboards with Storm hate.

Congratulations to everyone who fought through that hate to reach day two.

[Whitefaces]

Not at all surprising.
At least how I see things is that Grixis Delver is/was the most played deck. Usually Grixis is capable of winning against storm and other way around depending on what players are drawing in their first turns (t1 Shaman? Therapies main?, and so on). Nevertheless, I'd say that it's easier to win with a Delver deck against storm even by playing not perfectly but not other way around. People came prepared because of the false idea that with Miracles gone Storm gets better, which is a widely accepted notion, thus packing more SB cards against it. Further storm can be easily taken out by some random draws of random decks with Chalice, BR/UB Reanimator, or even turn 2 kills from Elves or whatever. In the end it's difficult to keep ones performance high over 13-15 rounds and have enough luck to dodge bad MUs/ keep good hands.

I was surprised by no Storm in the T64 too, but came to this very same conclusion.

[thefringthing]

Vegas report. Not super detailed but there were a couple of interesting spots. Played against every flavour of BUG under the sun, mostly managed to dodge Chalices.

[Dr_D]

I'm interested in learning more about Kai's Vegas list:

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Rite of Flame
2 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam

Lands:15
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
1 Rain of Filth
1 Rite of Flame
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroclasm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Telemin Performance

Is anyone familiar at all with his boarding plan? I'm having a tough time seeing what things you generally want to cut (except for obvious stuff like duress against decks it isn't relevant against) and also when one would bring in rite of flame and rain of filth.

[davelin]

I'm interested in learning more about Kai's Vegas list:

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Rite of Flame
2 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam

Lands:15
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
1 Rain of Filth
1 Rite of Flame
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroclasm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Telemin Performance

Is anyone familiar at all with his boarding plan? I'm having a tough time seeing what things you generally want to cut (except for obvious stuff like duress against decks it isn't relevant against) and also when one would bring in rite of flame and rain of filth.

I would imagine you would want to bring in Rite of Flame to be more TES-like and speed up against certain MUs.

[Dr_D]

I would imagine you would want to bring in Rite of Flame to be more TES-like and speed up against certain MUs.

I get that, it's similar to playing chrome moxen in the board. So how would you board in the mirror, where you want to be faster but also want discard? I imagine you'd want to bring in rain of filth, rite of flame, and the two flusterstorms. You could cut a basic, the empty, and what else?

[Lormador]

I happened to be perusing the TES thread, as well as Cook's Vegas report, and couldn't help notice that parallel to the sideboard-moxen-ADN development here (occasionally even involving Burning Wish), there's a development (or at least discussion) over there towards basic Island.

What is it in the meta that appears (and possibly this is too simplistic a proposition) to be causing these decks to undergo, to some extent, a parallel evolution? Is it different forces acting on each deck? Is the convergence merely apparent, the perspective of a basic classification in which chromes + burning = TES, basics + Cabals = ANT?

[Final Fortune]

I happened to be perusing the TES thread, as well as Cook's Vegas report, and couldn't help notice that parallel to the sideboard-moxen-ADN development here (occasionally even involving Burning Wish), there's a development (or at least discussion) over there towards basic Island.

What is it in the meta that appears (and possibly this is too simplistic a proposition) to be causing these decks to undergo, to some extent, a parallel evolution? Is it different forces acting on each deck? Is the convergence merely apparent, the perspective of a basic classification in which chromes + burning = TES, basics + Cabals = ANT?

Storm faces the same problems regardless of whether or not it's ANT or it's TES, right now I think the only actual difference between ANT and TES is Cabal Ritual vs Rite of Flame and the exact number of lands, basics, Chrome Mox and Burning Wish is only a matter of how fast vs how consistent you want to be.

[OlegtheSuper]

Hi all(sorry for my english). I love storm but a litte different list then most of your play. I play like Martin Vonasek(42AD) with 2 PIFs, 2 TOAs, 1 ETW, 4 Cabal Therapyes, 2 Thoughtseizes and 2 cards like Decays in main.

I thought about GP Vegas, as you know there are no Storms in top 64. So why?

First a lot of decks switched their permanent hate to spell\hand\gy hate. Most of those cards are spells like Surgicals, Therapyes, Stifles, Peirces and so on. So from this point a good Delver player becomes a really big problem.

Second there are a lot of other combo deck like RB Reanim and S&S/T that not a good MU for us.

Third think about that my main Decays do nothing vs spells in Delver's hand and decks like Reamin and S&S/T.

Fourth i think to switch Decays to discard like +2 Duresses(i have 4 therapyes, 2 thoughtseize in my deck already), but Martin Vonasek told me that he have tested this way and it feels like too much discard.

Fifth i think about that Decay deal with Delver, Deathrite Shaman, Thalias, Chalices and so on.

Sixth understand that i want a discard(vs combo and spells) and a removal(vs shaman, delver, thalia and so on) in these slots. So i put 2 Collective Brutality and started to tested it. In Storm as an addition pluses Collective Brutality can discard "bad" cards from hand to setup hellbend and threshold.

my list, i call it Slow Storm:
2 Tendrils of Agony
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Preordain
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

SB:
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Hurkul's Recall
2 Dread of Night
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Chain fo Vapor

So from the moment i put it in to my list i have seen it in these games:
21/6/17
1-1 Grixis Delver with Stifles
In G1 my opp on the play leads with delver. I cast probe-therapy for daze to cast a Collective Brutality on my second turn for delver and spell. On my second turn i cast it to delver and as a discart and get a top deck force but if it resolves it will be likely a win bacause of Escalade i setup a threshold and a Hellbend for next turn for my Infernal Tutor.
In G2 Collective Brutality it get force and surgic.

22/6/17
2-1 Sneak&Show(no omni)
All games it was a relevant discard. In g3 he plays a Moon and a Cage and i drow a TOA in my hand. So thx Collective Brutality's third mode i natural storm him=)

2-0 UB Death's Shadow with Stifles
Kill delver discard a spell and win.

Not a lot but it counts too i think.

I think it don't worth to put Collective Brutalityes in Joan Hernàndez Mercader's(Surfinbird19) list becaus of speed and no free space in SB, but in Slow Storm(Grinding Station) it shines all the time i draw it.

So what do you think about it?

[ScottW]

Hi all(sorry for my english). I love storm but a litte different list then most of your play. I play like Martin Vonasek(42AD) with 2 PIFs, 2 TOAs, 1 ETW, 4 Cabal Therapyes, 2 Thoughtseizes and 2 cards like Decays in main.

We both copy Slosh! I like his list and played it before ADMD now have been playing AD too -1 Preordain +1 GT and have liked the ADs in part because it's at a low enough number that you can just cantrip to fix your hand if needed. Also, the SB is pretty open too.

Brutality seems pretty neat but I like AD because it can't be countered when targeting Deathrite, Leo, Delver, etc. and it's an instant. 2cmc discard at sorcery seems difficult to imagine and eot target Thalia, Canonist, allows you to use your mana most efficiently. Threshold is interesting but kind of contradicts your slower storm idea. Interested to hear your continued experiments with this. I think this card seems best MD but I currently can't see it's benefit over other options.

[OlegtheSuper]

We both copy Slosh! I like his list and played it before ADMD now have been playing AD too -1 Preordain +1 GT and have liked the ADs in part because it's at a low enough number that you can just cantrip to fix your hand if needed. Also, the SB is pretty open too.

Brutality seems pretty neat but I like AD because it can't be countered when targeting Deathrite, Leo, Delver, etc. and it's an instant. 2cmc discard at sorcery seems difficult to imagine and eot target Thalia, Canonist, allows you to use your mana most efficiently. Threshold is interesting but kind of contradicts your slower storm idea. Interested to hear your continued experiments with this. I think this card seems best MD but I currently can't see it's benefit over other options.

Ya this is not the best removal and not the best discard but when all this in one card it really inpress.
I think in most games 1 vs chalice deck it is not enought to resolve 1 decay because magus, tks, thorns, spheres and so on. And as i said AD is non vs combo.

It is so great to know that there are at least 3 players with 2 TOA in main!))

[eyeownyu]

Hey I'm a long time delver player just looking to expand my horizon. I'm borrowing storm cards from my brother. Could I get some tips on sideboard cards. I'm confused as to why I either see mixed opinions or splits of bounce effects like hurkls recall, chain of vapor, echoing truth etc. Which ones are better in which matchups. The same question goes for dread of night vs massacre. It seems like massacre is better because it hits revoke too. Last question is why do some people play two pif and/or two tendrils main? Is one not enough?

[Lormador]

IMHO the best and most recent guide to the deck is the Brainstorm's Show's 32nd episode. http://www.thebrainstormshow.com/pod...-storm-reborn/

They mention the double PiF thing in the episode but don't talk about it, and I don't really understand that either. Double Tendrils seems meant for more natural Tendrils kills, but I don't get that either. Still, the podcast and decklist are a really good and principled place to start. Finding a product of comparable quality involves quite a trip back in time and consequently an old fashioned list.

[TokugawaEdo]

Hey I'm a long time delver player just looking to expand my horizon. I'm borrowing storm cards from my brother. Could I get some tips on sideboard cards. I'm confused as to why I either see mixed opinions or splits of bounce effects like hurkls recall, chain of vapor, echoing truth etc. Which ones are better in which matchups. The same question goes for dread of night vs massacre. It seems like massacre is better because it hits revoke too. Last question is why do some people play two pif and/or two tendrils main? Is one not enough?

1) Chain of vapor is most efficient but only hits 1 and gets hit by chalice, truth can deal with chalice and multiples while recall hits a mix of chalice and 3ball. I usually have space for 2 bounce effects so against non chalice decks I have a chain and truth while against chalice decks I have recall and truth. Truth is flexible and the split lets 3 cards do work in many match ups.

2) Dread vs massacre is kind of a preference imo. Dread gives you long term value giving you time to sculpt to the point where then having revoker doesn't really matter but is manly for the DnT MU. Massacre hits more the turn you play it but nothing before of after so its mainly for the turn you go off. It useful else where too like blade decks if you've seen meddling mages and canonists. Some ppl don't like adding more 4 drops with AdN.

3) The second PiF makes you more resilient and drawing it is amazing. Lets you set up hands where you rit up, attempt to led tutor and dicard pif then it doesn't matter if the have a force. also lets you pif loop with only one rit.

[Lormador]

So the 2nd PiF is functionally Force insurance, among other things, with lines like:

Rituals, LED, Infernal Tutor (discarding PiF), doesn't matter if the Tutor gets countered, flashback PiF, flashback rituals, flashback IT and win.

Yeah I can see that being a really sweet line, with only Dark Ritual and a threshold Cabal Ritual enough to fuel it. It's got a low base of 1 land, storm 9 counting the counterspell on the Tutor.

[Dr_D]

So the 2nd PiF is functionally Force insurance, among other things, with lines like:

Rituals, LED, Infernal Tutor (discarding PiF), doesn't matter if the Tutor gets countered, flashback PiF, flashback rituals, flashback IT and win.

Yeah I can see that being a really sweet line, with only Dark Ritual and a threshold Cabal Ritual enough to fuel it. It's got a low base of 1 land, storm 9 counting the counterspell on the Tutor.

It also acts as a discard spell in your scenario. If the first tutor resolves, grab discard and cast before flashing the PiF back.