[Primer] Nic Fit

[ObligatoryReference]

So, this may be too janky, but I can't help imagining that there may be a build here (Legend Fit?). At the very least, it could help you power out a bunch of lands...

[Echelon]

Nope, not gonna happen

[Brael]

So, this may be too janky, but I can't help imagining that there may be a build here (Legend Fit?). At the very least, it could help you power out a bunch of lands...

Legendary creatures with few exceptions are unplayable in Legacy. Unless it beats Karakas, playing it is a bad idea.

[Echelon]

And in those decks that could play it you're probably better off running Genesis Wave. That at least puts all permanents on the battlefield that are X mana or less.

Fun fact: I ran it in my first Legacy tournament. I was on a very budget Elves! list, a long, long time ago. I made T8 with it .

[fireiced]

Legendary creatures with few exceptions are unplayable in Legacy. Unless it beats Karakas, playing it is a bad idea.

Technically could work with Nissa Vital Force or any walker.

Thou I think this card fails quite hard

[Taramawn]

Not sure if this qualifies as Nic Fit, but it does have Green Sun's Zenith and Atraxa: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18893&d=318344&f=LE

Plus, I've never met a toolbox deck I did not like.

[pettdan]

Not sure if this qualifies as Nic Fit, but it does have Green Sun's Zenith and Atraxa: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18893&d=318344&f=LE

Plus, I've never met a toolbox deck I did not like.

You'll find more info here:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...radewind-Rider

[Echelon]

Not sure if this qualifies as Nic Fit, but it does have Green Sun's Zenith and Atraxa: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18893&d=318344&f=LE

Plus, I've never met a toolbox deck I did not like.

Well, no Veteran Explorer and no Cabal Therapy pretty much means not Nic Fit.

[moseby]

I'm just getting back into playing magic again after about a years hiatus. I have sneaky-fit build let me know your thoughts on the list

9x Fetches
1 Phyrexian tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
2 Bayou
1 badland
1 Tagia
7 basics: 3 forest 2 swamp 2 mountain

4 Sneak Attack
2 Sylvan Library
1 Collective Brutality (should probably be K command?)
1 Painful Truths
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic deluge
1 Diabolic Intent
3x Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy

1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Tireless tracker
1 Interno Titan
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
1 Rune Scared Demon
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Thragtusk
1Woodland bellower
4 Veteran Explorer

SB Yes I know it is 16 I need to drop 1 card in it
1 Deed
1 Nissa Vital Force
1 Reclimation Sage
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Golgari Charm
2 Lost legacy
1 Slaughter Games
2 REB
1 Nihil spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
3x bloodmoon

Thanks

[Plm]

I played helm fit at the GENEVA LEGACY 11.

I did the classic 3-3 drop

The strange thing is how my match up went. I started to win againt ANT in 3 games, then I defeated painter in 2 games and lands in 2 games. I felt unbeatable!
Sadly I lost against grixis delver, Czech pile and finally infect in the following rounds.

Here's the list I played :

4 explorer
4 cabal therapy

4 brainstorm
4 ponder

4 leyline of the void
3 helm
1 carnage tyrant
3 tireless tracker

2 pernicious deed
2 abrupt decay
2 collective brutality
2 diabolic edict

2 crop rotation
2 inquisition of kozilek
1 nissa vital force

2 island
2 forest
2 swamps
2 bayou
1 underground sea
4 verdant catacombs
3 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
1 karakas
1 phyrexian tower
1 creeping tar pit

side :

bojuka bog
academy ruins
engineered explosives
toxic deluge
golgari charm
maelstrom pulse
echoing truth
duress
inquisition of kozilek
hymn to tourach
collective brutality
2 carpet of flowers
city of solitude
obstinate baloth

I won 2 games with tyrant, 2 games with traker beats and the rest with helm.

Most underwhelming cards were inquisition maindeck and nissa. Crop did some work but was not as impressive as usual.
Tar pit need to be a dryad arbor, I missed being able to flashback cabal of a fetch and it would have won me a game where liliana edicted my lonesome tyranosaurus .
Splashing just for the cantrips was nice , never felt that the manabase was hurt, did some nice digging.

[PanosIs]

Hello again guys,

As GP Bologna comes around tradition says I should slam some Rhinos in Legacy. Last time went pretty good after all, going 5-3 overall in two events. This time I'll be playing in 2-4 side events with Rhino Fit and am looking for feedback on my list. Consider that I am very much on a budget so even though I know Duals are in order, they're out of range for what I can afford. I am looking to optimize the list against Death and Taxes and midrange decks, forfeiting equity against combo.

So far my list is as follows, with a few open slots:

Creatures 17-18
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman

3 Siege Rhino

1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer

[1-2 open slots]

Noncreature Spells 20-21
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Path to Exile
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library
1 Vindicate
1 Abzan Charm

1 Nissa, Vital Force

[2-3 open slots]

Lands 22
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
2 Ghost Quarter

4 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

Sideboard 15
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Duress
2 Lost Legacy
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed

[3 open slots]

I'm looking to fill the open slots, and have about 50-100$ to throw into the deck, so I'm looking to get the best possible return for my money. Some of the things I'm considering are:

Abrupt Decay
Anafenza, the Foremost
Ramunap Excavator
Tireless Tracker
Toxic Deluge
Phyrexian Tower
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Kaya, Ghost Assasin
Damping Orb
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Karn, Scion of Urza

So, with these considerations, what would you suggest for the open slots, or even possible changes to the list? What should I prioritize in purchases?

[Echelon]

Hello again guys,

As GP Bologna comes around tradition says I should slam some Rhinos in Legacy. Last time went pretty good after all, going 5-3 overall in two events. This time I'll be playing in 2-4 side events with Rhino Fit and am looking for feedback on my list. Consider that I am very much on a budget so even though I know Duals are in order, they're out of range for what I can afford. I am looking to optimize the list against Death and Taxes and midrange decks, forfeiting equity against combo.

...

So, with these considerations, what would you suggest for the open slots, or even possible changes to the list? What should I prioritize in purchases?

Well, let's start with this. Speed is important. I'd replace Thragtusk w/ Siege Rhino #4, Reclamation Sage w/ Qasali Pridemage, Abzan Charm w/ Path to Exile #4 and Vindicate w/ Toxic Deluge. As for your free creature slots, add another DRS and Meren of Clan Nel Toth (b/c drawing an extra card each turn is pretty damn good). Concerning your manabase: Ghost Quarter has no place in this deck. If you can, try to go for Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold.

As a general point on manabases in Junk Fit, try to get to a place where you have 14 initial manasources for each of your colours (so 14 ways to get a green mana on T1, 14 for black and 14 for white. These obviously overlap. W/ the right duals, fetchlands count towards 1 each and so on). The last thing you want is to lose games to manascrew

You might also want to look into Mirri's Guile. It's slowly getting a little bit more acceptance as decent card (and way of keeping your card velocity up).

Lastly, the sideboard. Swap a Surgical Extraction for Lost Legacy #3, since it's a blowout to a lot of bad MUs. Replace the 2 Carpet of Flowers for 2 Ethersworn Canonist (which is a card that actually does something) and Pernicious Deed for a Gaddock Teeg (b/c you really need all the help you can get vs. fast combo).

As for things to get, looking at my suggestions and reflecting on my own list, I'd prioritize as follows:
1: 1 or 2 copies of Phyrexian Tower (closely followed by a copy of Volrath's Stronghold, mind you)
2: 1 or 2 copies of Toxic Deluge
3: 3 copies of Tireless Tracker

Abrupt Decay might deserve a honorable mention, but that's about it. Leovold is risky when just on Junk and the other cards are often considered just not good enough (even though they might get close and still see some play from time to time).

Hope that helped!

[PanosIs]

First of all, thanks for the elaborate response. I'll try to discuss reasoning for some of the proposed changes.

Well, let's start with this. Speed is important. I'd replace Thragtusk w/ Siege Rhino #4, Reclamation Sage w/ Qasali Pridemage, Abzan Charm w/ Path to Exile #4 and Vindicate w/ Toxic Deluge. As for your free creature slots, add another DRS and Meren of Clan Nel Toth (b/c drawing an extra card each turn is pretty damn good). Concerning your manabase: Ghost Quarter has no place in this deck. If you can, try to go for Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold.

Thragtusk -> Siege Rhino: A relic of the list running Kaya, Ghost Assassin in the mainboard, as Thragtusk is the best target for Kaya value. The change makes a lot of sense when you throw Kaya out.

Reclamation Sage -> Quasali Pridemage: Same situation as above, but here I can also see exalted being quite useful to help Rhinos punch through the various 5/5s of the format.

Abzan Charm -> Path to Exile: I'm thinking about this, but I enjoyed the flexibility of Charm and as an oneoff being able to act as removal/combat trick/draw all at instant speed.

Vindicate -> Toxic Deluge: If I go down the Vindicate I would certainly look to run some Abrupt Decays in the maindeck, as being able to deal with equipment out of D&D is quite important.

The idea on Ghost Quarter is to punish the extremely greedy no-basic manabases running around in the format, but with recent developments in the top tier decks, I agree it should probably go. Phyrexian Tower is one of the cards I've been looking to get anyways so that will be an easy swap-in and help the mana as well.

You might also want to look into Mirri's Guile. It's slowly getting a little bit more acceptance as decent card (and way of keeping your card velocity up).

Mirri's Guile is indeed appealing, we have a lot of shuffle effects and the difference between CMC 1 and CMC 2 for Library is huge.

Lastly, the sideboard. Swap a Surgical Extraction for Lost Legacy #3, since it's a blowout to a lot of bad MUs. Replace the 2 Carpet of Flowers for 2 Ethersworn Canonist (which is a card that actually does something) and Pernicious Deed for a Gaddock Teeg (b/c you really need all the help you can get vs. fast combo).

Good suggestions all around, although Canonist is not something I'd look to run, maybe some additional discard?

Snip.

I own Trackers and Decays. Would you run any of those in the main? Probably my first purchase is Phyrexian Tower along with Meren of Clan Nel Toth, although I don't know if I can fit Stronghold into the budget, should have gotten one when it was still cheap is the story of Magic: The Gathering.

Overall:
-1 Thragtusk +1 Rhino
-1 Reclamation Sage +1 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Vindicate +1 Toxic Deluge
-2 Ghost Quarter +2 Phyrexian Tower
+1 Deathrite Shaman
+1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
+2 Abrupt Decay

[Echelon]

MD Trackers yes, probably 2 or so. MD Abrupt Decay not so much, especially when runn QPM + Meren.

[PanosIs]

MD Trackers yes, probably 2 or so. MD Abrupt Decay not so much, especially when runn QPM + Meren.

Would you go with 2 Trackers and 2 Deathrites? Or is it better to go for 1 Tracker and 3 Deathrites? I was running 3 Trackers last year and they seemed too slow, but 2 might be the correct number, as in grindy matchups you really want one to stick, so having two to find with Zenith is good.

Even with Pridemage and Meren I think we want some amount of Decay, especially if Vindicate is out, there are plenty of noncreatures to take care off and Decay is very versatile. I'd for sure run at least one, maybe two.

[Echelon]

Well, I solved it like this:

Main (60)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard:
3 Duress
3 Lost Legacy
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pithing Needle
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Gaddock Teeg

The plan is to go toe to toe with the blue decks during the early game (hence the large quantity of card selection), stabilize and then overpower them by burying them under cards and incremental pressure. It's relatively quick, nimble and persistant as hell. I understand it doesn't fit your budget, but I'm just trying to give an impression. Do know that being relatively low on removal and several other of my card choices are not conform the popular choice. Most lists tend to skim on the number of Guiles/Libraries and creatures in order to run more removal. Also, most lists go for a higher (or wider) top-end (so a few more 5-drops and possibly even a 6-drop).

As far as the manabase is concerned, the fetchlands are the most important part. They ensure you get to power out as many basics as possible. Then Phyrexian Tower & a Stronghold, and only then the duals. Bayou first (unfortunately), Savannah second and Scrubland last.

[Navsi]

Even with Pridemage and Meren I think we want some amount of Decay, especially if Vindicate is out, there are plenty of noncreatures to take care off and Decay is very versatile. I'd for sure run at least one, maybe two.

Deed and QPM already give you plenty of noncreature hate. If you're worried about planeswalkers, you probably want Maelstrom Pulse or To The Slaughter.

[PanosIs]

Snip.

I actually like this list quite a lot. And the only things that don't fit the budget are the duals/fetches. How has the Courser been performing? And also, aren't multiple Mirri's Guiles/Libraries dead draws after the first one? I understand that you want to fight the card quality game, but still.

[mistercakes]

Guile triggers for each one in play. You could look at top 3 then fetch then look at top 3.

[Echelon]

Plus, sometimes you play one into a counter or blow one up to Deed. Besides, you can always shuffle multiples away if they're on top of your library.

Courser is fine, have been running one for a long time now. Is great when you get it out vs. Burn, fine in fair MUs and crap vs. combo. Decent vs. Elves! though.