Goblins might still exist significantly if Hulk Flash got overhated, as a deck to beat all the decks that hate on Hulk Flash.
The problem with this is that Hulk Flash itself is also a deck that beats all the decks that hate on Hulk Flash.
Originally Posted by majikal
Wow, I haven't laughed so hard in quite a while. Thank you for making my last few weeks of Junior year bareable. Laughing aside though, what really makes your post funny is the apparent truth to it. People have been saying for pages now that one of the most insane things about this combo is that it is vulnerable to almost ZERO hate. And with 8 free counters and an instant speed kill, remind me what kind of hate is going to resolve? People also gotta remember that if your opponent goes turn 2 Hymm you, you can just PoN and then win in your upkeep with the trigger on the stack. Frankly, I pray for the format that flash gets fixed. I loved where we were going, all the new decks and the crazy amount of development that was happening. I think all this deck will do is box that development in and kill more decks than it will create.
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One problem with this plan is that Menendian and Shay have credibility.
This format has gotten a little boring, I would like to see flash stay and things get a little crazy.. this deck does rape almost every deck in the format though, not good. I think it will be more about control and combo and it will be an even more skilled format, even though any jackass could win with the hulk deck no matter how bad they are.
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Boring? No way. The format is just finally starting to mature a little bit is all. I've seen a lot of interesting development just in the last year and half since I jumped back into the format.
This thing needs to get squashed before it gets off the ground. It's definitely not going to survive past June 1, but I don't even want to see in Columbus. Here's hoping they fix it on May 1.
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That's the thing that worries me. Not just that it's powerful, but that it's so ridiculously easy and forgiving. Any retard can pick this up and say 'oops, T8'. I don't think that's healthy. At least in Vintage, the land of brokeness, everything is balanced by the fact that everything is broken, so the game turns to a contest of incredible skill. Nothing currently in Legacy comes close to matching how broken this combo is, and it requires really only that you know how to tap lands.
A format defined by a deck that you can teach your grandma to win with isn't what I want Legacy to turn into.
But enough about that, and more on improving the best deck EVAR!
I was thinking about the fact that, after fetching 4 Disciples, you still have 2 extra mana's worth of creatures you could be fetching out. The question I pose is, is there anything at 2cc (or perhaps 2 somethings at 1cc) that are worth inclusion to fetch with hulk?
The first thing that comes to mind for me is Meddling Mage, to name Stifle or something that they might use to keep from dying after the triggers are on the stack, but I'm not really sure that's the best 2cc creature out there.
Thoughts?
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Well I'm hoping they fix it on May 1st too, plus, May 1st is my birthday, so I'll wish real hard and perhaps I'll get my wish fulfilled by WOTC for my birthday. That would be a nice present.
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You liked that didn't you? Watching me and Kreiger figuring out just how stupid busted it is. Fuck, now I can't get flash. Looks like I'll have to hit my store at home before the hype reaches there.
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Is there any reason why they wouldn't have Stifled the Hulk's go-to-graveyard ability?
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Um...well...you see.....no.
So Meddling Mage is out, I guess. I suppose you could name something else, but by the time it hits the table, you're probably already teh winnar.
Any other ideas?
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If they're going to Stifle anything, it's going to be Protean Hulk's triggered ability, in which case you never get to search up Mage in the first place. I doubt there anything that's really worth adding to the combo, because once you've resolved Flash, you're pretty much in the clear in most cases.
I'm not so sure. If anything, a large competitive event like Columbia is the perfect venue to determine whether or not Flash should remain playable in this format. Anyone who's done their homework will know about the combo by now, and will have the opportunity to take it into account when choosing and constructing a deck for the GP. The deck is insanely strong, but it's not unbeatable.
Decks with a lot of countermagic and/or Stifles and/or Meddling Mage apparently do perfectly fine against it. I'm in favor of leaving Flash legal for the GP solely to see how broken (or not) it is in practice rather than theory.
Last edited by Zilla; 04-30-2007 at 11:15 PM.
You're probably right. We probably don't need to add to the combo until something comes along that actually causes it any trouble.
True, but it's really post-FS Hulk Flash that I'm worried about. Non-Pact versions certainly aren't as strong, but FS is legal right after the GP. I don't think Columbus is going to be terribly indicative of the power that the deck will attain via pact nonsense.
edit: Also, being from the west coast, Columbus is really the only large scale Legacy event I'm going to be in for a while (I'm sure you can sympathize). I don't want to see it dominated by this silliness, especially when I worked so hard creating and tuning a deck to take to GP already. I put a lot of work in to preparing and tuning for this thing, and I don't want that to suddenly get ruined by a deck that popped up roughly 3 weeks before the GP.
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Um, guys...
(From Gatherer)
04/10/2004 You choose the creature card, optionally pay its mana cost, then put it into play if you paid the cost or into the graveyard if you didn't. All this happens during the resolution.
This means it doesn't work, right? No questions asked, right?
That ruling is over 3 years old, and the change in the Oracle text happened roughly a week ago.
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But, the text on the card is exacly the same as the oracle text! Or not?
I work in the industry, regardless, credibility isn't the issue, being able to articulate an argument is.
I haven't been checking the forums lately but it seems like everyone thinks this deck is absurdly broken. However from the little of this thread that I have read, it's still a combo deck that loses to blue-based aggro/control.
I'm not sure how popular this thing will get (because not everyone attending the GP will have read about this), but this is just 1 more reason to play UWb Fish.
Can someone post me a current decklist though? I wouldn't mind goldfishing this on MWS a few times to see how strong it actually is.
I have to agree with this. Since FS isn't legal yet, Summoner's Pact and Pact of Negation couldn't be fit into this yet for the upcoming GP. Even with those 2 cards though, this is still a combo deck, running 8 tutors (Mystical Tutor and Summoner's Pact) and 8 cards for protection (Force of Will and Pact of Negation) which isn't that far from most combo decks.
I think the main concern that this deck brings is that what will eventually happen in Legacy is the rise of aggro-control/control and combo, taking aggro off the map (except for Goblins of course).
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I think the errata should be restored for good. I mean, this is insane. It's a good thing Future Sight isn't legal in the GP, I'd hate to have a monkey piloting this deck win it. That wouldn't be good for the public image of the format...
You remember that recent article by Doug Linn on SCG, where he said that Future Sight will not be making "a monumental impact on the Legacy scene in the way that recent previous sets have"...?
It's definately the 8 Pact version that must be taken care, so a GP Columbus version will not nearly show how good the deck is in reality. I don't know if they will ban or errata Flash or whatever. But I think I will buy the few cards I need for this deck anyways. And if it's just to show my little brother the possibilities of Magic... Should be fun.
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