I know alot of people have already made up thier minds about flash and say it should and will be banned June 1st but what if the metagame adjusts and flash turns out to not make as strong a showing at grand prix cloumbus as everyone thinks? I remember dragon had alot of raw power and resliency but it was actually balanced out by the fact that it could be hated out with certain archetypes. I read in an article(I forget who wrote it sorry) on SCG that people wanted flash banned because they couldn`t play the decks that they liked anymore and all this fussing is just people not wanting to change. I`m not saying its true or untrue but its at the very least a point of view that should be explored. Perhaps I`m being too optimistic in saying this but part of me was hoping that flash might usher in a metagame shift that would leave legacy looking more like vintage because decks would have to be much faster to keep up with flash. I don`t want this to turn into another thread like the one we already have so if you could limit yourself to comments about how Legacy might evolve if flash stays after June 1. Thanks!
To not thirst for power is to be at the mercy of those that do
It will go on. Simple...
Prepear for the new Decks.
It's like Vintage. New Cards, new Decks, New Inviroments.
Team aYb
Selling my Japanese Legacy Collection. PM me what you need ;)
My mcm-account. Selling overseas
Great argument.
Sorry that not everybody in the world speak english that perfect like you do. Whatever, buy something with your Credit card.
Vintage is the best format to compare with Legacy.
There is no Editionrotation, only the changes with new cards and the B/R list and what player's do with the new cards.
It can't be that we are playing the same decks like 2005, just with some minor changes.
I bet you can take the old GP decks and still win some events with this.
I don't think Wizards is happy with this and now it's finally the time to change the direction in deckbuilding.
"Oh your deck sucks, it can't handle a First Turn Lackey"
Team aYb
Selling my Japanese Legacy Collection. PM me what you need ;)
My mcm-account. Selling overseas
He is probably foreign and english is not his first language; give him a break. In any case you're making yourself out to be a huge douchebag since you can't spell you're.Originally Posted by JohnnyCage
I think if flash is not banned the format will suck. Flash is powerful to the point where it will force decks to play cards that are not very powerful in general, but are good against flash. There are no decks except the most dedicated blue control decks that can beat a well built Flash deck without some serious tweaking.
Almost every Aggro-Control Deck (Fish, Sui ,BW-Confi ,Thresh , Fearie Stompy ...) can beat Hulk Flash. They only add Leyline or Trickbind to the Sideboard and i think they have good Chances. Even Goblins could survive with hate in the sideboard. Don't panic.
If they don't want to kill inspiration they will ban Protean Hulk.
This way people will have to start thinking again ...
I might have already mentioned this, but if Flash isn't banned I will punch a bunny in the face.
Oh, and if it is, I'll be in church all day the next Sunday.
Despite having even more cards available than Legacy, Vintage actually has an extremely small pool of realistic cards to work with. It just has a lot of unplayable cards tossed in as well. There are fewer playable cards, in fact, than in Standard, and most of the cards in every deck are going to be identical. Know why? Aggro does not exist. Therefor every deck must be Blue, Black, or both, because it's all some form of combo and control. Good deckbuilding skills and innovation are not rewarded. Vintage is only fun if you get off on using broke-ass cards.
I have no interest in playing Vintage. When 1.5 got seperated from the T1 restricted list, it got tons, I mean tons more interesting. I don't know if Flash really is all that, but its very existence means one thing:
Legacy = Vintage's little brother, again!
No f*cking thanks.
The odds of this deck being as big as everyone saying it will be is pretty slim. Considering the following things happen:
A. Your opponent doesn't maindeck Leylines
B. You draw ample counters against any UX decks out there
C. You getting everything you need on the first turn.
D. You find some hole in the wall store that sells all of the junk rares for the deck. C'Mon who keeps older sets stocked full of cards. I was only able to find 12 Flash, 6 Hulks, 7 Gemstone Caverns, and 3-4 of every other junk rare within all 7 stores I visited. When I said Flash they looked at me like I was some Noob
The return of a Legend(in his own words)
"Oh your deck sucks, it can't handle Flash" is not really an upgrade for the format, it's sort of a sidegrade, if that.
Plus, stability of the format is an element that some people do enjoy. If people wanted a fluctuating format, there's Standard. And to a lesser extent, Extended. And it's not like no new deck ever surfaces in Legacy, nor that a rogue/metagamed deck never place tops.
If this is your justification for saying Hulk Flash won't be huge, you need to consider:The odds of this deck being as big as everyone saying it will be is pretty slim. Considering the following things happen:
A. Your opponent doesn't maindeck Leylines
B. You draw ample counters against any UX decks out there
C. You getting everything you need on the first turn.
D. You find some hole in the wall store that sells all of the junk rares for the deck. C'Mon who keeps older sets stocked full of cards. I was only able to find 12 Flash, 6 Hulks, 7 Gemstone Caverns, and 3-4 of every other junk rare within all 7 stores I visited. When I said Flash they looked at me like I was some Noob
A) You have to draw them, and very few people MD them.
B) This has never been a problem with 4 FOW 4 Daze and plenty of discard.
C) You don't need to!!!!!
D) Ever heard of Ebay? Or online magic shoppes? Both have plenty of Flash, Hulk, etc ready to go.
Seriously, the deck is BUHfuckingROKEN and admitting it is the first step to solving the problem.
If the format continues to hold up Flash, I am assuming Belcher and TES will be the new top 3.
At that point, I'll show up the first Legacy tournament when I get back from the desert with a 40 card deck.
'Oh? This ISN'T Yugioh?'
In Mother Russia, metagame breaks you!
Can some one show me a non-Protean Hulk version of Flash that is an argument for banning Flash as opposed to banning Protean Hulk?
Rector? Gamekeeper? Reanimator? Where's the "broken?"
I would guess that Flash is more broken than Hulk. Gamekeeper is already a solid deck. I don't know for a fact that it will be broken with Flash, but it just seems much safer to ban Flash than to ban Hulk and have to keep an eye on all current and future sac abilities.
If they don't ban Flash, Wizards will have to make sure they never print cards with great leaves-play abilities ever again. That constrains design far more than banning Flash would.
Team ICBE
Try not to wake up on fire.
That's nonsensical, because the Eternal formats don't put design restraints on R&D, and even if they did, you'd still have to deal with it in Vintage to.
If Flash isn't banned then Aggro will die. Goblins might hold on the longest, but it really can't fight the 2 card 2 mana combo.
@Leyline:Alot of people have mentioned this. But if the deck isn't playing counters or Black, then the Flash deck will simply bounce this and then win. Forget about tring to react it.
So ya if people thought the format was stagnant a little while ago, which it wasn't until Flash got good again, it will get very stagnant with a very small playable card pool.
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
The stories of my demise have been grossly exaggerated
If Flash isn't banned I'm quitting magic. Standard is boring as all get out, and I can't stand combo players.
I play the game to have fun with other people, you know, not watch a guy say "Island, ESG, GG"
Flash a Gamekeeper won't be "I win right now" the same way activating Belcher isn't "I win right now" but both are close.
Notice how the price of Flash on all the websites went up a lot and not Protean Hulk (as much).
Flashing a Yosei locks your opponent down for a turn, Flashing a Mindslicer Mindtwists all players, Flash + Penumbra Wurm = 2 mana 6/6. None of these are close to "Flash resolves -> I win." But the point is obvious. Protean Hulk isn't (and never will be) broken.
Actually Flashing a Gamekeepers is almost as retarded as Hulk. The effect will basically sneak the Gamekeepers into play through counters better, since you can 'cast' him EOT, and kill him away for you. Then you dont need to rely on redonculous methods like Living Wish -> Kjedorean Dead. It also saves two mana for the combo since Flashing Keeper is 2 mana not 4. Leaving you the other 2 mana to activate your Salvagers.
Id laugh my ass off if Hulk is who gets taken down and shuffle up my new keeper deck. Remember Summoners Pact -> Gamekeeper too.
Now playing real formats.
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